Are you Mr Friendzone?

[anacciguils]

Hi! Very interesting name by the forum http://www.loveshack.org Certainly. All above told the truth. We can communicate on this theme.

[LittleTiger]

Little Tiger - what you are talking about is wonderful in theory but, it just rarely happens in practice.

 

It rarely happens because you're approaching women with the wrong attitude (going by what you posted earlier!). Either that, or you're choosing the wrong women as friends.

 

If a woman you find attractive turns you down for sex or a relationship but wants to be friends and, most importantly, you also like her as a person and would value that friendship without sex, the only difference between that friendship and a friendship you have with a man should be that boundaries are discussed openly at the start.

 

You like each other, you'd like to stay in touch, but sex is off the agenda. All in the open. If one of you tries to overstep the boundaries at some point, you can discuss them again. Friendship between people of the opposite sex is just the same as any friendship - it's negotiable and changeable. The only additional 'complication' is agreeing on sexual boundaries.

 

It takes two mature adults to keep a true friendship alive and loyal women friends are amongst the best friends you'll ever have.

[betterdeal]

If the girl doesn't know, I call it creepy!

 

So you're saying some people should be ashamed of their feelings? That it's perhaps sinful for a man to find a woman sexy?

[LittleTiger]

For women, friends are people you can gossip with, go shopping with, go clubbing with. Women are notoriously catty and would never help their friends at the expense of their own interests.

 

If you're singe and being 'friendzoned' all the time, this is why!

 

You have zero respect for women and you clearly don't even like them. Women you meet will know this. Change your attitude and you will attract more 'good' women.

 

Most women are incredibly loyal and supportive of their friends - what a shame you are discounting the possibility of receiving that loyalty and support just because you'd rather have a friend who will watch your back in a fight or risk their life for you in times of war!

 

As I said earlier, I find this attitude very sad.

[Woggle]

If you're singe and being 'friendzoned' all the time, this is why!

 

You have zero respect for women and you clearly don't even like them. Women you meet will know this. Change your attitude and you will attract more 'good' women.

 

Most women are incredibly loyal and supportive of their friends - what a shame you are discounting the possibility of receiving that loyalty and support just because you'd rather have a friend who will watch your back in a fight or risk their life for you in times of war!

 

As I said earlier, I find this attitude very sad.

 

They are loyal to their female friends but very different with their male friends. Of course not all but I have seen examples where a woman keeps a fan club of chumps around to do her bidding.

[LittleTiger]

Charming! Look, if us guys want to chew the fat and talk about wimmin, can't you just let us?

 

Of course men and women being friends is a good thing.

 

This is about the women that men - who may or may not have female friends - would like to be more than just friends with. And even when dealing with the women who one is friends with, the emotional offloading is something that drags many men down. Men, generally, don't share feelings for hours on end, so this advice is moot when it comes to dealing with male friends who offload, because they generally don't.

 

Essentially, this is a thread about being assertive as a man who may be just a touch too respectful or lacking in self-confidence. And trust me, there is far more to attraction than first sight. It's more like quantum physics in that the way you interact affects the outcome. So saying "a woman is either attracted or not" is incomplete, misleading or just plain wrong: women, like men, can and do change their minds over time.

 

Sorry, betterdeal, I wasn't meaning to be offensive. Of course men can chew the fat and talk about women - no problem with that, but isn't it helpful to get some input from women? We know women better than you do - especially the guys who say they're being friendzoned all the time.

 

I agree that there's more to attraction than 'first sight', BUT we are all biological beings and, whether you like it not, we are driven by hormones and chemicals.

 

We all decide within seconds of meeting someone whether or not they are of interest to us sexually. For men it's a straight yes or no (with levels of interest of course). For women it's yes, no and maybe - maybe means there is some low level of interest which could develop into more if other factors are present when she gets to know you.

 

However, no, is always no. If you meet a woman who you find physically of no interest at all, you won't change your mind no matter how much you like her. The same is true for women - if she finds you sexually unappealing (even at an unconscious level), you will never, ever be more than her friend.

[LittleTiger]

So you're saying some people should be ashamed of their feelings? That it's perhaps sinful for a man to find a woman sexy?

 

Who mentioned the words sinful and ashamed?

 

Of course not! It's creepy to have ulterior motives with a female friend and pretend that you don't. That's all I'm saying.

 

Hanging about with a women in the hope of getting sex at some point in the future rather than because you just enjoy her company is creepy. If you're attracted to a female friend then tell her. If she isn't attracted to you, tough luck. That's life.

 

If you like her as a person it shouldn't make any difference - she's out of bounds as a sexual partner but that doesn't change who she is as a person. If she was good to have around without sex, it's rather demeaning to the woman, actually to all women, to say she's worth nothing to you if she's never going to spread her legs!

[LittleTiger]

They are loyal to their female friends but very different with their male friends. Of course not all but I have seen examples where a woman keeps a fan club of chumps around to do her bidding.

 

Woggle, all I can say is, I am very sorry that you live in such a 'dark' world. Look for the good in people (women!) and you will find it.

[rafallus]

I've gotten quite close to two females, one of them for 2 years. Her boyfriend who ignores her and just doesn't give a **** told her to delete me from her facebook one day, and she did it like a good obedient woman, despite me being the one who is always there for her to protect her when she gets in trouble or help her when shes in need. My male friends on the other hand, 2 of them who've been friends with me for 10 years and have always been with me through thick and thin would never cut me out just because their girlfriends whine about me (it's happened before).

 

She is NOT your friend then. She conveniently keeps you around for attention, validation and advice.

 

Word "friendship" gets thrown around quite a lot recently, 99% of the time to describe casual colleagues who will bail on you when first hardships come. And it's not like male friends are in principle any better. I actually ditched two of "life-long friends" (quotation marks intentional), who turned out to be no more worthwhile than your female "friend".

 

Actual friendship is very rare, hence if someone offers you friendship, be careful, whether it's man or woman.

 

What I do recognize however, is difference in situations:

 

1)You come explicitly to make friends, not to look for a partner. You meet a woman, she's not into you either, but has no problem with being friends with you, and indeed, relation evolves.

 

2)You see a woman you want to get intimate with. She knows this, is not into you, but offers you "friendship" as a "downgrade" and expects you to suddenly perform a permanent paradigm shift in how you see her (ie. stop seeing her as potential partner right here, right now).

 

Situation 2 is not realistic to accept for many guys, and for a good reason.

[counterman]

I'm having mixed feelings about this. Since I haven't experienced much of the "friendzone", I can't really share a perspective that's based on real life examples. However, at the moment, I find myself in that situation. I went on a date with a girl, and she just wanted to be friends and said she wasn't looking for a relationship. I figured, why not? Every girl in the past that I have dated or have been rejected by in the past have disappeared, I figured why not give this a go. I do find her attractive but am not attracted to her... I think I'm not anyways But I'm seeing her this week and I'll see if she's worth of friendship.

[betterdeal]

LittleTiger, I have plenty of friends. I don't need more friends. I certainly don't need to spend another 6 months having someone offload their emotional baggage from their most recent relationship onto me, me being emotionally drained by the whole process, them then, having cleansed their souls, getting it on with another guy and still relying on me for emotional support. It's called triangulation by that stage.

 

On one hand you say don't hang out with someone you fancy if they don't fancy you; then you say hang out with them, just don't fancy them. Which brings us back to you deigning to tell me what feelings I "should" have and by extension, which feelings to not have because they are wrong, creepy, bad, shameful, sinful. Just because you use "creepy" doesn't change the essence of your dictates, which are "feel this. don't feel that."

 

I'd like to meet some who I can be more than friends with. If you think that's creepy, too bad, that's life.

[irc333]

Lately, everytime I've been asking women out, they'd say, "Sure, but only as friends"

 

Sometimes they'll say they want tobe friends, but in actuality, they don't want you in their lives as a friend at all either. It's just a line to get you out of their hair.

 

 

I have only been friendzoned once, and that ended up differently, because we DID end up as friends...since I found her so unattractive after she rejected me that I wouldn't date her in a million years now!

 

What usually happens when I get rejected with the "let's just be friends" is:

 

1.) she blows me off and I discover she didn't even want to be friends, case closed, I move on

2.) I lose interest in HER, she becomes like a friend, and we continue that friendship.

 

I had two instances in my life where the girl who was a friend used me as an emotional tampon. One of them was the girl that is now really my friend, and she doesn't do that anymore. Another instance is where this girl at work (who I was casual friends with) was always complaining about her boyfriend. Finally I lost my temper, said "why don't you stop complaining about it, then, and DO something?", and...needless to say, she never brought it up again.

[LittleTiger]

LittleTiger, I have plenty of friends. I don't need more friends. I certainly don't need to spend another 6 months having someone offload their emotional baggage from their most recent relationship onto me, me being emotionally drained by the whole process, them then, having cleansed their souls, getting it on with another guy and still relying on me for emotional support. It's called triangulation by that stage.

 

On one hand you say don't hang out with someone you fancy if they don't fancy you; then you say hang out with them, just don't fancy them. Which brings us back to you deigning to tell me what feelings I "should" have and by extension, which feelings to not have because they are wrong, creepy, bad, shameful, sinful. Just because you use "creepy" doesn't change the essence of your dictates, which are "feel this. don't feel that."

 

I'd like to meet some who I can be more than friends with. If you think that's creepy, too bad, that's life.

 

What has 'needing' friends got to do with anything. If I meet someone by chance, male or female, who I happen to really hit it off with and enjoy their company, I would never say 'oh I have enough friends already so I don't have room to be friends with you - sorry!' That seems a rather strange attitude to have.

 

Where did I say, 'don't hang out with someone you fancy if they don't fancy you'? And where did I say 'don't fancy them'? You often seem to misread or misinterpret what I say.

 

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do, that's up to you. Nor am I telling you what you should or shouldn't feel. What I said was it's creepy to be hanging around a woman, pretending to be her friend and nothing more, if all you really want is to get inside her knickers.

 

If you let her know you're interested, it's not creepy, if you don't, it is!

 

How would you feel if you had a guy friend who was pretending to be straight but was actually gay and only hanging around you in the hope that he could persuade you, one day, to have sex with him?

[betterdeal]

Where did I say, 'don't hang out with someone you fancy if they don't fancy you'? And where did I say 'don't fancy them'? You often seem to misread or misinterpret what I say.

 

Oh, when you said

 

Hanging about with a women in the hope of getting sex at some point in the future rather than because you just enjoy her company is creepy.

 

I took that to mean don't hang out with someone if you fancy them and they don't fancy you. But now you're saying it doesn't mean that. You're saying there's some universal measure of creepiness and this scenario rates highly on this universal creepiness scale. Gotcha.

 

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do, that's up to you. Nor am I telling you what you should or shouldn't feel.

 

And when you said

 

If you're attracted to a female friend then tell her. If she isn't attracted to you, tough luck. That's life.

 

I took that as you telling me what I should do. Sorry, I can't interpret it any other way. Perhaps you can explain how this is not telling me what to do?

 

What I said was it's creepy to be hanging around a woman, pretending to be her friend and nothing more, if all you really want is to get inside her knickers.

 

That isn't what you said. I've quoted what you said. Now you're adding provisos. It may be what you mean by what you said, but I am not a mind reader. I can only go by what you actually say.

 

If you let her know you're interested, it's not creepy, if you don't, it is!

 

If I let every woman I find attractive know I'd be arrested for being a public nuisance!

 

How would you feel if you had a guy friend who was pretending to be straight but was actually gay and only hanging around you in the hope that he could persuade you, one day, to have sex with him?

 

Flattered.

 

You know it is possible to like someone and fancy them, right? In fact, the two correlate quite often.

Edited September 20, 2011 by betterdeal

[phineas]

It rarely happens because you're approaching women with the wrong attitude (going by what you posted earlier!). Either that, or you're choosing the wrong women as friends.

 

If a woman you find attractive turns you down for sex or a relationship but wants to be friends and, most importantly, you also like her as a person and would value that friendship without sex, the only difference between that friendship and a friendship you have with a man should be that boundaries are discussed openly at the start.

 

You like each other, you'd like to stay in touch, but sex is off the agenda. All in the open. If one of you tries to overstep the boundaries at some point, you can discuss them again. Friendship between people of the opposite sex is just the same as any friendship - it's negotiable and changeable. The only additional 'complication' is agreeing on sexual boundaries.

 

It takes two mature adults to keep a true friendship alive and loyal women friends are amongst the best friends you'll ever have.

 

I really don't need to be told the definition of "friendship" I have many of them with men. I hold women to the same standards & they fail miserably every time.

 

So I cease contact with them just the same as any male that doesn't meet my criteria for friendship.

 

I'd really like to know exactly how my attitude or the way I approach women excuses them of telling me they want to be friends when they really just want to use me as an emotional tampon/atm/helper monkey/validation.

 

what is it about the way I approach them that makes them want to use me?

I don't understand how I am responsible for another person's actions.

 

Also, first you say it's wrong for men to not want to be friends with women who turn us down for dates, now you are saying we are picking the wrong women to be friends with after we tell you about the horrible experiences from being just friends with women who turn us down for dating.

 

I guess us men are damned if we do & damned if we don't & women are absolved of all poor behavior?

 

I find it ridiculous that men can admit other men use women on these forums but women refuse to admit that women use men & default to the "both genders do it argument" and It somehow has to be the man's fault for a woman's poor behavior.

 

why can't you just accept that women on the whole are attention whores?

 

I know women that have a ton of orbiters they call "friends"

and I know women that have no male friends at all.

 

I do not know of many true platonic male/female friendships. I really don't.

[LittleTiger]

betterdeal - we speak a completely different language so it's probably better if we don't attempt to converse. You have misunderstood or misinterpreted everything I've said and I've been as clear as I can be. I was merely trying to help you guys to understand about women and about being friendzoned - and how to make the best of it if it happens. You obviously believe you know better so I'll leave you to it.

[LittleTiger]

I do not know of many true platonic male/female friendships. I really don't.

 

Again, phineas, you obviously don't like or respect women.

 

I really like and respect men and I certainly don't hold them to blame for everything that goes wrong between the sexes. We are equally to blame in different ways.

 

I do personally have true platonic friendships with men. They are friends I've had for many years (in one case 20+ years) and I hold them in very high regard - we have a lot of respect for each other and enjoy one another's company. In all cases, we currently have partners, but these friendships have endured through times of us being single too - sometimes at the same time.

 

I value all my friends greatly and I believe it's sad that so many people discard half the world's population as possible friends because they are of the wrong gender.

[rafallus]

I value all my friends greatly and I believe it's sad that so many people discard half the world's population as possible friends because they are of the wrong gender.

 

What is not sad however, and quite justified IMO, is discarding a "friendship" offer from specific person you wanted to be intimate with, but he/she didn't feel the same way towards you.

[betterdeal]

betterdeal - we speak a completely different language so it's probably better if we don't attempt to converse. You have misunderstood or misinterpreted everything I've said and I've been as clear as I can be. I was merely trying to help you guys to understand about women and about being friendzoned - and how to make the best of it if it happens. You obviously believe you know better so I'll leave you to it.

 

Oh, okay

[xxoo]

You know it is possible to like someone and fancy them, right? In fact, the two correlate quite often.

 

Absolutely true!

 

And fancying a friend a bit isn't such an issue when you have your OWN romantic relationship.

 

I think "friendzone" focuses light on the wrong issue. When the attraction and connection is there (from her point of view), it won't matter if you started out as friends. The questions is: how do you make yourself more desirable to the opposite sex?

 

I do agree that a woman who does not know you well who says "lets just be friends" is just letting you down easy. She probably doesn't have any strong desire to be friends, either.

[phineas]

Again, phineas, you obviously don't like or respect women.

 

I really like and respect men and I certainly don't hold them to blame for everything that goes wrong between the sexes. We are equally to blame in different ways.

 

I do personally have true platonic friendships with men. They are friends I've had for many years (in one case 20+ years) and I hold them in very high regard - we have a lot of respect for each other and enjoy one another's company. In all cases, we currently have partners, but these friendships have endured through times of us being single too - sometimes at the same time.

 

I value all my friends greatly and I believe it's sad that so many people discard half the world's population as possible friends because they are of the wrong gender.

 

standard responce on this forum from a woman.

 

fail to address the post, cherry pick a sentence & use it to claim "you don't like women"

 

Thanks for playing.

[phineas]

What is not sad however, and quite justified IMO, is discarding a "friendship" offer from specific person you wanted to be intimate with, but he/she didn't feel the same way towards you.

 

I honestly can care less if a woman is into me or not. It don't hurt my feelings so I take the offer of friendship. I really do loose interest in women not interested in me. It's a waste of time.

 

The thing is i'm almost 40 & the majority of my friends are not single so i'll take a woman has a friend & go out & do the things i would do with my guy friends.

 

So I didn't discard these women until I experianced their particular form of friendship.

 

They basically wanted me to treat them like a priority over my other friends.

 

they didn't want to meet my other friends

they didn't like it when I went on dates or hit on other women when we hung out.

They'd cock-block me. ect.

 

So they don't want me & they didn't want another woman to have me either.

 

That isn't a friendship.

So I said "see ya"

Edited September 20, 2011 by phineas

[Feelsgoodman]

and in that case as well as any other, again about 90% of the time, to dispel the often presented idea that "she'll help you meet women", the friend will not only refuse to set those friend zoned men up with single women they know. they will actively try to prevent those men from finding other women. because whatever they get from those men would then be limited at best, or cut off entirely at worst, if the man in question had a woman who didn't friend zone him.

This is an excellent point that many inexperienced men do not realize. If she helped you find a girlfriend, you would probably no longer be hanging out with her. Provided she gets some sort of benefit from hanging out with you, she has no incentive to help you meet women.

[Feelsgoodman]

If you're singe and being 'friendzoned' all the time, this is why!

 

You have zero respect for women and you clearly don't even like them. Women you meet will know this. Change your attitude and you will attract more 'good' women.

The only thing that is "clear" is that you are an immature little brat with the argumentation skills of a 7 year old. Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I'm a loser who can't get women. You are making a lot of stupid assumptions.

 

Most women are incredibly loyal and supportive of their friends

That's your opinion, and that's fine. My fairly extensive experience with women does not jive with your claims. What I find said is that you can't make a point without resorting to personal attacks and excessive drama.

[ChessPieceFace]

i am the least macho man i know.

 

being a man isn't about wearing a costume, it's all in your head.

 

Yep, it's all about the lie of "confidence" which is actually a euphemism for "dominance", nothing more than a base, animal behavior. You win no points with me for bragging about this (actually you lose them.)