petal28 Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I would like to hear your opinion to the question i've posed. If you know a guy is emotionally immature and has the potential to change and become mature in the future with time and experience, would you wait for him to change? Has anyone had any success stories where you have "trained" a young/immature guy and been patient with him and ended up with a good r'ship? I would love to hear any opinions or thoughts.
Pasttense Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Immature means different things to different people. Can you clarify? People who expect other people to change are more often disappointed than not with the results.
Author petal28 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Posted September 18, 2011 Here are a few examples of them.... - a few occasions where the guy has been passive-agressive and once where he was active aggressive - calling me names but doing it jokingly eg. a monkey, hussy (i called him up on this once and he tried to not do it again but did it once again when he got angry at me) - telling me that he had seen a hot girl or a hot woman at his workplace but doesn't act on it - he just tells me about it but this is also done in a joking manner - When there are problems, he initially has avoided seeing/speaking to me. He doesn't like discussing problems and avoids conflict but there have been a couple of times where i have discussed the problem with him and he has been ok (this is where i see his potential to change) The reason why i ask whether it's worth waiting for him to change is because he is in his mid-20s and i see alot of potential for him to change/mature. He is mature is many aspects (eg. career, family, etc) but emotionally, not so.
Cee Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Ask yourself if you can live with his behavior in the present. You can't have a relationship with a future person. We only have the now. If you can tolerate his immature behavior because otherwise he's a great guy, then stay. If his immaturity is making the relationship unbearable, then leave.
antinko Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I don't know. I mean, even if you did successfully 'train' him, then what would you do? Get bored? Find a secure man who you like as they are and I suspect you'll have greater success.
Graceful Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Is there a distinction between "changing" or "maturing" -- I mean, what is your perception of the difference, and is there one? See, I think they're very difficult to define and very difficult to tease apart at some point when you get to know a person. Age isn't always the key factor, either. I've known 20-year olds who are more mature than some of the 30-year olds I've known. Name calling is immature, but it's also rude, discourteous, crass and hitting below the belt, IMHO. Okay, you scold a 10-year old for it, but a man in his twenties should not be calling his GF a name (note: I don't allow it) -- it's a bad habit to get into, and one that is hard to break if allowed. I don't think it's a product of immaturity alone. This means he'd "outgrow" it -- and that's not necessarily the case. If you get along well with him, then stay with him. If you feel you are "waiting" for him to change, that's not a good sign, and it's a bit patronizing and presumptuous on your part. Like (or love) him for who he is, or cut him loose. There's nothing worse than a woman who tries to change a man, and it's a stereo-typical reaction for women to think they can do this. Very bad habit to get into. What makes you such an authority on who this man is, or should become? He's in charge of that, and fully responsible. What makes you the judge of his behavior and what parts of his personality are not satisfactory as mate material? You get to judge that, but that's it. Yes, you might influence him in some way, but it sounds like you are judging him far more deeply than you would be if you really liked him for who he is. Don't forget. There is such a thing as people bringing out the best in each other ... and you might not bring out the best in this guy. Might be that simple. Waiting for him to change sounds like what you'd do if you were waiting for him to lose weight or grow some facial hair, something really tangible that you could see. Internal changes are less perceptible, evolve differently and slowly, and again, may depend on the company you keep. You grow together, or you grow apart. One person does not orchestrate that process. It should happen as an outgrowth of a functioning, healthy, loving relationship. Just my two cents / food for thought, perhaps. Take care. Here are a few examples of them.... - a few occasions where the guy has been passive-agressive and once where he was active aggressive - calling me names but doing it jokingly eg. a monkey, hussy (i called him up on this once and he tried to not do it again but did it once again when he got angry at me) - telling me that he had seen a hot girl or a hot woman at his workplace but doesn't act on it - he just tells me about it but this is also done in a joking manner - When there are problems, he initially has avoided seeing/speaking to me. He doesn't like discussing problems and avoids conflict but there have been a couple of times where i have discussed the problem with him and he has been ok (this is where i see his potential to change) The reason why i ask whether it's worth waiting for him to change is because he is in his mid-20s and i see alot of potential for him to change/mature. He is mature is many aspects (eg. career, family, etc) but emotionally, not so.
Author petal28 Posted September 18, 2011 Author Posted September 18, 2011 Is there a distinction between "changing" or "maturing" -- I mean, what is your perception of the difference, and is there one? See, I think they're very difficult to define and very difficult to tease apart at some point when you get to know a person. Age isn't always the key factor, either. I've known 20-year olds who are more mature than some of the 30-year olds I've known. Name calling is immature, but it's also rude, discourteous, crass and hitting below the belt, IMHO. Okay, you scold a 10-year old for it, but a man in his twenties should not be calling his GF a name (note: I don't allow it) -- it's a bad habit to get into, and one that is hard to break if allowed. I don't think it's a product of immaturity alone. This means he'd "outgrow" it -- and that's not necessarily the case. If you get along well with him, then stay with him. If you feel you are "waiting" for him to change, that's not a good sign, and it's a bit patronizing and presumptuous on your part. Like (or love) him for who he is, or cut him loose. There's nothing worse than a woman who tries to change a man, and it's a stereo-typical reaction for women to think they can do this. Very bad habit to get into. What makes you such an authority on who this man is, or should become? He's in charge of that, and fully responsible. What makes you the judge of his behavior and what parts of his personality are not satisfactory as mate material? You get to judge that, but that's it. Yes, you might influence him in some way, but it sounds like you are judging him far more deeply than you would be if you really liked him for who he is. Don't forget. There is such a thing as people bringing out the best in each other ... and you might not bring out the best in this guy. Might be that simple. Waiting for him to change sounds like what you'd do if you were waiting for him to lose weight or grow some facial hair, something really tangible that you could see. Internal changes are less perceptible, evolve differently and slowly, and again, may depend on the company you keep. You grow together, or you grow apart. One person does not orchestrate that process. It should happen as an outgrowth of a functioning, healthy, loving relationship. Just my two cents / food for thought, perhaps. Take care. Thanks for your insight Graceful and thanks also to all the others who have posted a response. I guess what i should have asked is "should i wait for a guy to mature?". I am also against changing a person and would not try to do that 'intentionally'. You see, I see the potential for this guy to mature in the future but the way he is now is "immature for me" which i guess automatically answers the question i have posed i.e. i should just move on. Also for the record, i don't think it's the dynamic of our r'ship that has brought out the "worst" in him. I am confident that it's innate. He displays "textbook" passive-aggressive behaviour which i see in many aspects of his life and also pick up signs of PA behaviour from him telling me of interactions with other people. He also calls his other girl friends (i.e. friends who are girls) disrespectful names jokingly. He also avoids conflict and serious discussion in other aspects of his life.
Graceful Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Ah, great additions, Petal, and I think you can soon draw your own conclusions and take the path that is healthy for you. If you are that much ahead of him regarding maturity, and since you (or anyone else for that matter) can't possibly know what his pattern to mature will be, then you do have your answer. It won't be a very rewarding experience to stay with someone that you keep finding fault with, even if you do believe he has potential (and again, potential is one thing, but delivering on it is quite another). Thanks for your insight Graceful and thanks also to all the others who have posted a response. Also for the record, i don't think it's the dynamic of our r'ship that has brought out the "worst" in him. I am confident that it's innate. He displays "textbook" passive-aggressive behaviour which i see in many aspects of his life and also pick up signs of PA behaviour from him telling me of interactions with other people. He also calls his other girl friends (i.e. friends who are girls) disrespectful names jokingly. He also avoids conflict and serious discussion in other aspects of his life. Okay, well, see this for what it is, especially the way he treats and refers to other girls that are friends. That's a huge eye opener / red flag right there. And PA behavior is very ingrained, you're right. They don't take any responsibility for their own behavior -- see, they don't think they're doing anything wrong, so what's to change? (see what I mean?) I think you know what you need to do. He's not a suitable match for you, that doesn't mean he's a bad person, or even that your relationship is a train wreck. Just see him as an unsuitable match, and that will help you cut him loose -- and you'll grow as a person as a result. If he does, too, that's the icing (but not your responsibility, you know?) I think you're on your way.
make me believe Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Nope. If I can't accept somebody "as is" then he's not the guy for me. The immaturity you described would be a huge turnoff for me.
Fondue Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Nope. If I can't accept somebody "as is" then he's not the guy for me. The immaturity you described would be a huge turnoff for me. Woahhhhhhhhh, your post count is 999. Anyway, why do you want to "change" somebody? I keep hearing women say this. They want to "change" their man. What's this obsession with wanting to do so? Can someone rationalize this for me, pleasE?
carhill Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 IMO, if a person is currently incompatible, then they are. The future is unknown. Generally, personality growth and change is a slow process which, for adults, is generally a function of life experiences. A man in his mid-20's is an adult. His basic personality has been formed and socialized. The behaviors you noted are a marked part of who he is. Will they change? Probably. Who knows whether such changes will make him more or less compatible. Either is possible. I recall, at your age, investing in such 'projects' and would opine, based on life experience, to reconsider. Consider it a 'timing' issue. You and he are at different emotional style 'times' in your lives.
Author petal28 Posted September 19, 2011 Author Posted September 19, 2011 Woahhhhhhhhh, your post count is 999. Anyway, why do you want to "change" somebody? I keep hearing women say this. They want to "change" their man. What's this obsession with wanting to do so? Can someone rationalize this for me, pleasE? Once again, thank you for ALL your insightful comments. I really appreciate them. Graceful, you really have a way with your words and your thought-process is very eloquent, if such a thing could exist! You keep hitting the nail of the head, for me. Thanks so much! Fondue, i'm not one to change a guy and i hope i never do that conciously. The reason why i wondered whether it was worth waiting for this guy is because at this stage of my life, he is not emotionally mature for me although he is a good guy in general.
AHardDaysNight Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Like it's been said, cut him loose! He's not mature enough for a relationship.
grkBoy Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 I would like to hear your opinion to the question i've posed. If you know a guy is emotionally immature and has the potential to change and become mature in the future with time and experience, would you wait for him to change? Has anyone had any success stories where you have "trained" a young/immature guy and been patient with him and ended up with a good r'ship? I would love to hear any opinions or thoughts. I wouldn't wait. The way people change is when they see their immature or bad behavior isn't getting them any success. It's like women who think if they wait the bad boy or playa or jerk will become a good man and commit. As long as this guy is getting laid by being a bad boy/playa/jerk, he won't change. No more than the spoiled bitch princess will never change as long as men are constantly trying to get with them.
make me believe Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 The reason why i wondered whether it was worth waiting for this guy is because at this stage of my life, he is not emotionally mature for me although he is a good guy in general. Nah... he's definitely not worth it. There are tons of guys out there who are great guys AND not immature.
Mutant Debutante Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Nooooooo. If, in 5 or 10 years, you both happen to be single and he wants to show you he's changed, hey, give it a shot. But never wait around hoping he'll change on your watch.
Niaka44 Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 My ex's immaturity and his inability to communicate and work through issues with me were some of my main reasons for leaving him. I felt that for most of our relationship, I was waiting for him to change, to mature, to grow up. And I do see potential for that to happen someday. But like others have said, you have to love someone for who they are in the moment, not who you envision them being someday. There have been many times I've regretted leaving my ex because I've allowed myself to imagine scenarios in which we're happily married and he's a wonderful, mature husband and father, and I think someday he will be...but for someone else. I couldn't love him fully for who he was when we were together, so it was just best to let him go and find someone who can.
FrustratedStandards Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 Personally, no I wouldn't wait. I don't have time for that. I don't want to waste months on a little boy while he grows up, when I could be enjoying a relationship with a mature man. HOWEVER, as for your second part, yes I have seen men change. But only when they have fallen inlove with the girl, and she dumped him for his stupidity. A few months after that, they usually come back more committed and mature, realizing that they lost the woman they love for a very stupid reason, and it wasn't worth it. (rarely, but its possible)
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