Cypress25 Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Cypress25 --- ... well, I at least knew someone that went crazy on birth control pills (and gained a lot of additional weight). Birth control can have negative effects, too... Of course it's possible to have side effects, that's why you have to find the right pill for you. I had to try 3 different pills before I found one that doesn't cause side effects. If a woman's BC makes her go crazy or makes her gain weight, then it's not the right pill for her. My current pill doesn't give me any side effects at all, and it makes my periods shorter. Win! The same is true of antidepressants. That's why it's a trial-and-error process. For some people, Paxil will cause horrible side effects, while Prozac will work just fine. For other people, the opposite may be true. There are only 5 million varieties of antidepressants out there, people just need to find the one that works for them. The right medication should control their symptoms without negative side effects. and alternatives may be worth looking into (if not just to avoid other possible health implications). If you're talking about condoms, yes, I use those too. I really don't want to get pregnant, so I double up on methods. Pill + Condom = No Baby.
Feelin Frisky Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 These are *drugs*, nonetheless. I'm sure people can cope/function and be more productive in "society" on all kinds of them... that doesn't mean they're healthy. Glasses are hardly a comparison. Behavior does not change drastically while wearing them (unless someone's always been near blind and they see some eye-popping creature / scenery =p ) --- cases of increased suicidal tendencies among other less desirable things/effects are not common among wearing eyeglasses... and we understand the eye / optics far better. And so far I haven't found any substantial evidence that supports your case that efficacy is no longer an issue nor damage will never be done. SSRI's still seem to be *believed* (not proven) to work a certain way (and those are debated too... suggesting... yep, they're not really fathomed). Cypress25 --- ... well, I at least knew someone that went crazy on birth control pills (and gained a lot of additional weight). Birth control can have negative effects, too... and alternatives may be worth looking into (if not just to avoid other possible health implications). Of course it doesn't mean you're a burden though, nor that you suffer from apparent/real negative effects. Nor that people who take antidepressants may be, but their long-term health etc is still important... "Drugs" is a baggage term you are throwing on to medication that implies something other than what SSRIs are all about. "Drugs" are unspecific substances that blanket medicate more than the one targeted system at issue. That is what is wrong with comfort drugs like opiates, benzos, or barbiturates or "boosting" drugs like amphetamines or the Aderals and Ritalin. Those "drugs" have a presence in the life of a person when they take them. They literally feel them working and they effect many systems--respiratory, blood pressure, etc. SSRI's are minute substances that work specifically on correcting the communication between neurons in the mind and have no presence in terms of a produced "feeling" in and of themselves when a person become acclimated to them. Some can have initial impacts that some find uncomfortable like sleepiness or sleeplessness and they may have to put up with it for a short time or look to something else in the same family that is less bothersome. But when they achieve their effectiveness, no one knows they are working. They are just able to see changes in the way they handle things. And that's is the key to changing one's life and the lives of those around the person for the better. There is no way to "reason" one's way out of a misfiring or miscommunication in the brain which manifests as anxiety, anger, withdrawal from life (depression). If you have to keep equating this with "drug abuse", that's your loss. I just hope you don't influence anyone else to stay away from the one thing that may stand between them and never resolving their unhappiness.
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) "Drugs" is a baggage term you are throwing on to medication that implies something other than what SSRIs are all about. "Drugs" are unspecific substances that blanket medicate more than the one targeted system at issue. That is what is wrong with comfort drugs like opiates, benzos, or barbiturates or "boosting" drugs like amphetamines or the Aderals and Ritalin. Those "drugs" have a presence in the life of a person when they take them. They literally feel them working and they effect many systems--respiratory, blood pressure, etc. SSRI's are minute substances that work specifically on correcting the communication between neurons in the mind and have no presence in terms of a produced "feeling" in and of themselves when a person become acclimated to them. Some can have initial impacts that some find uncomfortable like sleepiness or sleeplessness and they may have to put up with it for a short time or look to something else in the same family that is less bothersome. But when they achieve their effectiveness, no one knows they are working. They are just able to see changes in the way they handle things. And that's is the key to changing one's life and the lives of those around the person for the better. There is no way to "reason" one's way out of a misfiring or miscommunication in the brain which manifests as anxiety, anger, withdrawal from life (depression). If you have to keep equating this with "drug abuse", that's your loss. I just hope you don't influence anyone else to stay away from the one thing that may stand between them and never resolving their unhappiness. you can sugar coat it all you want... drug: 1. A chemical substance, especially one prescribed by a medical provider, that is used in the diagnosis, treatment, or prevention of a condition or disease. Drugs are prescribed for a limited amount of time, as for an acute infection, or on a regular basis for chronic disorders, such as hypertension. 2. A chemical substance such as a narcotic or a hallucinogen that affects the central nervous system and is used recreationally for perceived desirable effects on personality, perception, or behavior. Many recreational drugs are used illicitly and can be addictive. 3. (Medicine / Pharmacology) any synthetic, semisynthetic, or natural chemical substance used in the treatment, prevention, or diagnosis of disease, or for other medical reasons Related adj pharmaceutical 4. Such a substance as recognized or defined by the U.S. Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. also. The key to changing one's life is *not* a drug... although their choice to use one can certainly help them change it (for better and for worse). Besides, you're not even reading what I'm writing. Are you affiliated with pharmaceuticals? ... 'cause ... ... you can play on making people feel safe and comfortable within it and all, but I'm not trying to attack it. I'm simply saying that it's a widely undiscovered thing and HAS had terrible effects on people and that it's generally in someone's *best* interest to make other efforts to improve their life (if in addition to medication --- the medication being a primary tool in becoming healthier... a tool that ideally should, at some point, be discarded and no longer necessary). If that's evil and messed up... I suppose I'm okay with being devilish then Edited September 17, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
FitChick Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Antidepressants are no better than a placebo and often worse. There have been many books in the past few years written by doctors who have exposed Big Pharma's cash cow. An article that summarizes the basic research into this fraud was published in Newsweek. So much for the FDA being a watchdog protecting consumers. More people need to know this. Anxiety and depression are best treated with nutrition, diet, exercise, supplementation and psychosocial treatments, not drugs. I had excellent results from The Lefkoe Method after years of trying every other kind of therapy, conventional and unconventional. Depression runs in my family but I am the only one whose disposition and personality has changed from depressed and negative to positive and outgoing. I wouldn't date someone knowing he was on antidepressants. If I found out later, I'd try to help him get off them by the above methods.
Calutaxi484 Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 Onyx I totally agree (and I work in health care)! I generally feel people are way over medicated. I think most people experience some kind of mental health issue throughout their life however it's usually temporary. I could probably go into a psychiatrist's office and he'll FIND something to give me. I myself had severe depression at one point, but I dealt with it. After my brother died I became a shut in, gained a bunch of weight and had no motivation to do anything (I literally had days where I didn't even feel like taking a shower). After a while of that though I decided enough of that and I've been fine since. I still have bad days, but it actually takes an effort to make a change. Some people (not all of course) are depressed as a lack of ability to cope with real life. Society (especially the education system) largely now tells everyone you are a unique snowflake and you're never going to fail at life. I believe 100% this coddling mentality is what's leading people of my generation to such increased rate of mental health disorders. I've literally had more patients then I can count parrot the same sob story. "I'm 50 years old now (and look like I'm 70) I spent 30 years as a (crack/heroin) addict and now I'm depressed because I have HIV,HEP C, and never did anything with my life." My reaction is well yeah is that any kind of surprise? You were a piece of poop most of your life, you made your bed now lie in it.
D-Lish Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 No there is no shame but I don't see why I should be burdened with that What are you burdened with? I really don't understand where you are coming from. You probably wouldn't even know they were on them unless they told you. It's not always a burden as you say. If someone is taking meds for their depression and the meds are working then what's the problem? Exactly. These are *drugs*, nonetheless. I'm sure people can cope/function and be more productive in "society" on all kinds of them... that doesn't mean they're healthy. SSRI's still seem to be *believed* (not proven) to work a certain way (and those are debated too... suggesting... yep, they're not really fathomed). I can tell you as someone that suffers from severe anxiety, that damn right- taking meds makes me more productive in society, I actually feel like a healthy, normal individual- and I am entitled to have that if there is something out there that can help me. I have had a general anxiety disorder my entire life, as far back as I can remember. My body functions in panic mode 24/7. I can only describe it as that feeling when you get scared unexpectantly and go into that "fight or flight" mode. My body functions in that mode all day every day, and it's horrible to live your life in such a way. You know when you're just walking along minding your own business and someone jumps and says "boo" and scares the crap out of you? Your entire body responds to moments like that, your heart beats louder and stronger, you respond to that fear in a very physical manner - you feel it in your chest, your hair rises, your ear drums emanate your heart beat, etc. I lived like that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week my entire life. It's like my body is always on defcon 4:p. It's a chemical imbalance, something I, and many others cannot control. I've tried yoga, CBT, etc... It doesn't help. I take an SSRI that is geared towards people with Anxiety and prone to Depression (which I am). I can attest that being on this med makes me feel free- it's freedom. It doesn't alter my personality or dull my senses, it doesn't change what I have to face in life, but it levels the playing field- it simply balances everything. I just want to tell people that if you haven't walked a mile in someone else's shoes, please don't judge:o I remember the first time I was prescribed meds, and it just seemed like I woke up one day and that panic, those butterflies, that doom and gloom weight was just lifted. No one would know I am on meds if they met me, no one would know what I suffer from when I am off the meds. I take a pill once a day, and I am balanced. That's NOT a placebo effect. It's hard to hear so much judgement against being on meds. I'm not crazy, I suffer from a chemical imbalance- and this one pill a day thing balances me. It's unfortunate that so many people think that when it comes to meds, it's shameful to do something when it comes to your brain, but wouldn't bat an eye or have anything to say about someone taking a shot of insulin. I'll probably be on meds the rest of my life for the anxiety. If you met me today, you wouldn't know I suffered from such an affliction- because I don't anymore- because I have found a med that releases me from the suffering.
carhill Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 If the person were otherwise compatible, especially in the area of family and relationship history, I'd consider dating a medicated depressive. As has been mentioned, the brain is a big electro-chemical machine and sometimes things get off kilter. Brain meds restore balance. Nothing in life is perfect.
D-Lish Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Great reply D-Lish. Thank you, it came from the heart. You have to walk a mile in someone's shoes before you pass judgement. Does my anxiety mean I have a "mental illness"? I guess it does. Somehow, when it has to do with "the head"... There is shame in seeking/taking help. I just can't illustrate properly the freedom I felt once my meds kicked in. Do I feel shame walking up to the counter and grabbing my prescription? Yes, because so many people judge.
country_gurl Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Onyx I totally agree (and I work in health care)! I generally feel people are way over medicated. I think most people experience some kind of mental health issue throughout their life however it's usually temporary. I could probably go into a psychiatrist's office and he'll FIND something to give me. I myself had severe depression at one point, but I dealt with it. After my brother died I became a shut in, gained a bunch of weight and had no motivation to do anything (I literally had days where I didn't even feel like taking a shower). After a while of that though I decided enough of that and I've been fine since. I still have bad days, but it actually takes an effort to make a change. Some people (not all of course) are depressed as a lack of ability to cope with real life. Society (especially the education system) largely now tells everyone you are a unique snowflake and you're never going to fail at life. I believe 100% this coddling mentality is what's leading people of my generation to such increased rate of mental health disorders. I've literally had more patients then I can count parrot the same sob story. "I'm 50 years old now (and look like I'm 70) I spent 30 years as a (crack/heroin) addict and now I'm depressed because I have HIV,HEP C, and never did anything with my life." My reaction is well yeah is that any kind of surprise? You were a piece of poop most of your life, you made your bed now lie in it. It's amazing that you claim to work in health care when you clearly have no working knowledge of depression. I feel sorry for your patients based on the superior, judgmental and condescending attitude that you express here. There is a vast difference between situational depression and clinical depression; the latter not being caused by difficult situations in life but due to an actual chemical imbalance in the brain; no different really than someone who's diabetic because their pancreas no longer produces insulin to balance their blood sugar and therefore has to take daily insulin.
Cypress25 Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I wouldn't date someone knowing he was on antidepressants. If I found out later, I'd try to help him get off them by the above methods. Wow, you know you really shouldn't be making medical decisions for other people. If you found out that someone was taking a necessary medication that helped them, you would convince them to stop just because you don't like the idea of medication? Who are you to tell other people how to live their life?
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) D-Lish - I'm sorry if I've personally hit a sore spot. I was riddled with anxiety when I was younger (roughly from the age of 9 to 23). I was literally randomly paralyzed with panic attacks among other episodes of psychosis =o, and I do remember vividly what they felt like. I completely understand the desire to be free from them. I attempted suicide over them more than once... And I am glad your experience with antidepressants has been positive, but I don't think they are for a lot of people (and they were not for me). While they certainly abated my nervous breakdowns, they also left me solemn and I slept for most of each day. Granted, when I was first prescribed them, I was 16 (zoloft and then prozac and paxil). I don't think it's currently legal (where I'm resided) to prescribe teenagers such antidepressants anymore... Regardless, I stopped taking them on my own. My panic attacks did return, for a couple of more years... but I found them more bearable because at least my desire to paint, write, read etc returned as well. Although I was a hermit... and I went through this hypochondriac period too... thinking I was having heart-attacks because the physical pain from them were so intense (they were solely stress induced). I think there may indeed be people who are born to have a proclivity to overwhelming (perhaps negative) emotions... but at least for myself, well, what can I say? I was molested as a young child (first around 4 by an older male family member and then other older men who were unrelated as I grew up... it stopped around the age of 14, but men in their late 20s had bedded me already at that point). There was one person in my young childhood that "cared" for me, and my mother wouldn't let them in my life (a freakin teacher). And according to my older sister, I was constantly hospitalized as a baby and toddler because my mother just didn't want to "feed" me or be the one having to take care of me. As I grew older, I helped myself to the junk food that proliferated the cupboards (my father was a work-aholic and always gone, but he made sure that there was food around)... and I became a little fatty at some point too, further ostracizing me from my peers (as if being nervous, reserved and frightened wasn't enough to appall them lol). My mother was an untreated schizophrenic though ... just to give a glimpse of what kind of life that entailed growing up: she used to have me hide in her closet with her, or under tables (the dining room and the coffee table) because the "people" in the next room were talking and planning to come kill us. The first time I remember telling her that I didn't hear anyone, she squeezed my cheeks and threatened me, telling me to shut my mouth or she'd leave me alone to die, I'd better not make any other kind of noise, did I want to get us killed? Did I want her to die? What a rotten little bitch I was. Ungrateful little bitch that ruined her life... Heh. I used to think she took pleasure in saying things like that to me... in retrospect, I know she was just crazy. Once I reached a certain age, I was able sort out a lot of my issues --- stop blaming myself to certain things, stop wondering why I never "fit in", stop believing I was despicable and unlovable and only worth sex and nothing else (beh I also managed to somehow get over anorexia, bulimia, and meth too). It took years. In fact, I'm still sorting **** out. I don't have it all together. But I haven't had panic attacks for a few years now and I haven't been medicated. And really, given my own life and the things I hear and have seen of others, it doesn't surprise me if they're freaking out / hurting. I think everyone's a little different though. And it's a combination of things that can really help someone... I'm not saying not use medication especially if they help you --- but I don't think the majority of people have to be dependent upon them. I think there is a source, a root, behind unexplained traumatic emotions / states of feeling. I think the source needs to be unveiled. I think that can take a lot of time, pain and effort... maybe it's not worth it to other people. And thoughts themselves do in fact bear a lot of power. I'm not even saying what has worked for me can work for others --- everyone's a little different... just like this "trial and error" of pill consumption is common, so are other methods to mending. We all have our vices nonetheless... our external coping mechanisms... not everything can be healthy to truly be healthy (as balance is important). Once again, I apologize for hitting a sore spot. I don't want to come across as "high and mighty" either. In a way, I can feel a little better about the **** I've been through if I can help someone else out, and for better or worse, that's what's behind my replies here. I *know* there's other ways beyond medications and it just seems to be safer to find an alternative to something that isn't very well understood --- at least for the future. People themselves aren't always predictable... Edited September 18, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 There is a vast difference between situational depression and clinical depression; the latter not being caused by difficult situations in life but due to an actual chemical imbalance in the brain; no different really than someone who's diabetic because their pancreas no longer produces insulin to balance their blood sugar and therefore has to take daily insulin. This is highly debatable. In fact, synopses connect at early ages... nurture vs nature... an *actual* chemical imbalance in the brain is tested exactly how? Hormone levels can be tested... but any number of organs can influence those.
D-Lish Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Onyx, can't imagine what you've been through and still managed to come out on the other side.
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (synapses )* D-lish --- (finding the humor in things - I shudder to think what things would be like if I never learned to laugh at myself and find the light hearted things in the world around; the old adage "laughter's the best medicine" isn't true for many conditions or problems, but it can certainly help them... I'm sure you know that already though [your shirt is a good example] ).
daphne Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I agreed with a lot of what you had to say Onyx. Even though I think he's a nut, I tend to agree with Tom Cruise's assessment of anti-depressants to a certain extent. When I had anxiety in the past, I learned to use exercise and diet to raise my seratonin levels. It worked for me, but if someone's tried everything and the only thing that does it for them is an AD, then they're lucky they have something that works. Would I date someone on AD's? I don't think so. I would be concerned that the guy was unstable. And since I've found myself in relationships with a couple of guys who weren't even on AD's (maybe they should have been!) that weren't terribly stable, I'm not sure I like the odds. I guess if he seemed like a great guy overall, I'd be more inclined to try it.
Calutaxi484 Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) It's amazing that you claim to work in health care when you clearly have no working knowledge of depression. I feel sorry for your patients based on the superior, judgmental and condescending attitude that you express here. There is a vast difference between situational depression and clinical depression; the latter not being caused by difficult situations in life but due to an actual chemical imbalance in the brain; no different really than someone who's diabetic because their pancreas no longer produces insulin to balance their blood sugar and therefore has to take daily insulin. Didn't I already address that in my last post? I said that there's variable states of mental health in people. According to the DSM-IV major depression is : 1. At least 5 of the following symptoms.2. These symptoms must be present during the same 2 week period.3. These symptoms must represent a change from a previous level of functioning. Depressed mood, nearly every day during most of the day. Marked diminished interest or pleasure in almost all activities. Significant weight loss (when not dieting), weight gain, or a change in appetite. Insomnia or hypersomnia (excess sleep). Psychomotor agitation or psychomotor retardation Fatigue or loss of energy. Feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt. Impaired ability to concentrate or indecisiveness Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal Why do I have a holier then thou attitude because I don't pity people that 100% cause their own situation? You think I should actually feel bad for those people? Why? They made personal choices, and they're accountable for their own actions. If that makes me condescending then so be it. I have a low tolerance for BS and I believe people are accountable for their own actions. I won't ever feel bad for someone that has HIV because she shoved a needle in her arm for 20 years on her OWN FREE WILL. Being a moron is being a moron, I'm not going to sugar coat it because I work as a health care provider. I routinely tell people how careless and stupid people are when they do something such as: Shoot themselves. Say they're attempting suicide by taking 5 tylenol. Lose a few fingers because they tried to fix the lawnmower while it was still running Lost their baby to CYS because they smoked crack for the duration of their pregnancy. I think I'm the kind of provider that most people should want. One that tells them the straight non bull**** truth instead of giving them excuses for self pity. That's mostly the reason we have the healthcare problems we do in this country. You can literally walk into any doctors office and get whatever you want. Edited September 18, 2011 by Calutaxi484 format changes on DSM stuff
country_gurl Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Didn't I already address that in my last post? I said that there's variable states of mental health in people. According to the DSM-IV major depression is : 1. At least 5 of the following symptoms.2. These symptoms must be present during the same 2 week period.3. These symptoms must represent a change from a previous level of functioning. Depressed mood, nearly every day during most of the day. Marked diminished interest or pleasure in almost all activities. Significant weight loss (when not dieting), weight gain, or a change in appetite. Insomnia or hypersomnia (excess sleep). Psychomotor agitation or psychomotor retardation Fatigue or loss of energy. Feelings of worthlessness or inappropriate guilt. Impaired ability to concentrate or indecisiveness Recurrent thoughts of death, recurrent suicidal Why do I have a holier then thou attitude because I don't pity people that 100% cause their own situation? You think I should actually feel bad for those people? Why? They made personal choices, and they're accountable for their own actions. If that makes me condescending then so be it. I have a low tolerance for BS and I believe people are accountable for their own actions. I won't ever feel bad for someone that has HIV because she shoved a needle in her arm for 20 years on her OWN FREE WILL. Being a moron is being a moron, I'm not going to sugar coat it because I work as a health care provider. I routinely tell people how careless and stupid people are when they do something such as: Shoot themselves. Say they're attempting suicide by taking 5 tylenol. Lose a few fingers because they tried to fix the lawnmower while it was still running Lost their baby to CYS because they smoked crack for the duration of their pregnancy. I think I'm the kind of provider that most people should want. One that tells them the straight non bull**** truth instead of giving them excuses for self pity. That's mostly the reason we have the healthcare problems we do in this country. You can literally walk into any doctors office and get whatever you want. I also work in health care and I am really appalled by your attitude. It is clear that you have absolutely zero respect for any of your patients/clients. Who exactly are you to sit in judgment of them and where they're at in life? Many people turn to drugs and a life of stupid decisions because of childhood sexual abuse or even undiagnosed mental illness and having parents that just didn't give a damn. You clearly have no compassion based on your arrogant posts here. There's a huge difference between enabling someone's destructive behaviors and choices and having some human compassion. It speaks volumes about what deep seated issues you really have going on inside of you, that you would so proudly feel so superior to those who pretend to provide care to. I feel incredibly pity for you.
AlexDP Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 There sure are a lot of naive and judgemental posts in this thread. There is no shame in taking AD's. The naive ones are saying it's fine to date them. Sure, there's nothing wrong in taking AD's. And it's a good thing they're helping themselves get happy. But obviously they're not the best person to be with. We are inherently attracted to healthy people. A guy with lepracy is deemed less attractive than a guy without it. This is normal. Denying it is, quite frankly, lying. I am not a shallow person in the least and I place great emphasis on the moral qualities of my partner. However I also like to date healthy and active people. Does this mean I cannot be friends with someone who is depressed? No, of course not. One of my best friends is in a depression right now. But dating them isn't a healthy choice for anyone involved.
Calutaxi484 Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I also work in health care and I am really appalled by your attitude. It is clear that you have absolutely zero respect for any of your patients/clients. Who exactly are you to sit in judgment of them and where they're at in life? Many people turn to drugs and a life of stupid decisions because of childhood sexual abuse or even undiagnosed mental illness and having parents that just didn't give a damn. You clearly have no compassion based on your arrogant posts here. There's a huge difference between enabling someone's destructive behaviors and choices and having some human compassion. It speaks volumes about what deep seated issues you really have going on inside of you, that you would so proudly feel so superior to those who pretend to provide care to. I feel incredibly pity for you. What do you do in health care? There's a huge difference between working in a doctors office, and working in the streets. I'm willing to bet you've never had some HIV patient bleeding all over you. I don't care what their story is, it's a cop out. My father came from an awful childhood yet chose to make something out of himself rather than use it as an excuse for self pity. They made a choice to put the needle in their arm, nobody forced it. Why do I hold some animosity towards those types of people? It's quite simple really because they're putting my health and well being in danger. I've never in my life engaged in anything that would put me at risk for HIV or HEP C, yet there's a very real chance I can get it from some PoS who calls 911 just looking for narcs. I seriously had an HIV+ patient tell me he intentionally spread it to other people, you those people deserve my compassion?
Eve Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Not read many responses.. My first opinion would be based on how well the person looks after themselves, so I would be more attracted to somone who uses exercise and eating well as a way to manage what they are going through. If it was a serious bout of depression or something clinical, I think I would consider just being their friend and not become intimate with them. This is because I tend to avoid letting negative people in very closely, whether it is their fault or not. .. but if a depression happened during an established relationship I would follow the same view but would support them if they did use anti depressants as a short term intervention with therapy also - but would prefer someone who didn't. Basically, I would take note of whether they indulge in the depression or not. I have seen different responses and stay away from those who are indulgers, especially passive aggressive types... they drag others down. Take care, Eve x
AHardDaysNight Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 This is highly debatable. In fact, synopses connect at early ages... nurture vs nature... an *actual* chemical imbalance in the brain is tested exactly how? Hormone levels can be tested... but any number of organs can influence those. Bipolar is definitely not imagined. I am for contemporary medicine. I'm sorry you aren't, but that doesn't give you the right to make medical decisions for other people. You aren't a trained therapist. Sorry if my post hits a nerve, but your posts have hit my nerve as well.
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Bipolar is definitely not imagined. I am for contemporary medicine. I'm sorry you aren't, but that doesn't give you the right to make medical decisions for other people. You aren't a trained therapist. Sorry if my post hits a nerve, but your posts have hit my nerve as well. where did I state that feelings were imagined? And where am I trying to make medical decisions for other people? I haven't even mentioned anything in regards to bipolar, either... although, since you bring it up. How is bipolar diagnosed? ... There are mental illnesses that can be thoroughly narrowed down --- blood tests and other laboratory tests can be extremely helpful in guiding an accurate diagnosis for a variety of conditions. Those things aren't actually all that useful for "bipolar" though... instead, a generic set of signs and symptoms is relied upon heavily --- but what are those symptoms for exactly? In the past (and even still), those signs and symptoms were often confused with other mental illnesses and or even with medical reactions from treating physical illnesses (like steroids for psoriasis/rheumatoid arthritis etc)... *Bipolar* is a name for something that is still not understood. In the years to come, it may be further defined and "beliefs" regarding it will change as well... just as they *already* have changed and been narrowed down to what it currently is defined as (and they may even change back, history itself lends to the erratic and fickle ways "beliefs" can be). I get that it's very uncomfortable to not know what is wrong. What I don't get is pretending to believe one does anyway (especially without testing it out). "Bipolar" could very well be something that can be *cured*... among so many other terms / conditions. I can't help but wonder how we don't already have the knowledge for a lot of things... but then, the medical and pharmaceutical industries would lose a lot of freaking "customers" if people were truly *cured* of their ailments. Even still, there will always be something to contend with because that is life. A doctor of mine, from years ago, told me that he made extra profit for prescribing medications for specific companies --- that there's bonus incentives and he figured people aren't going to die from it and *maybe* it'll even help them in some way (even if they didn't really need it) --- after he retired, of course. While I think there's definitely good hearts in the system, they're certainly not the only ones. If people are comfortable with sticking to labels that aren't fully supported / proven... and to listening to people that may not have their best interest in mind and taking their word as divine, I don't know what to say. Go along with the flow, cling tightly to the ignorance. Hopefully things get better somehow, anyway. Also, I already mentioned I was not against those using "medicine", I just don't think "medicine" itself is enough. I don't believe drugs are necessary for anyone --- I just think there's a lot that isn't understood yet. There are solutions to everything (I am thinking in terms of medication that are not chemical / human altered / substances) . For now, I think "medicine" is best for some people --- not all... not even the majority... but yes, for some. And that such medicine could be useful for a larger majority --- "temporarily"... And finally, I think that for those who have found brain medication that truly works for them with little to no side effects (or manageable ones) that they shouldn't just toss them either. I'm glad they've found something that works. My problem is primarily when it doesn't and how it can just be prescribed without much care into why and what it's for. I still like how it was put earlier... as a part of a "treatment regime"... Who is to say there's no long-term detrimental effects to some/all of them either... I suppose they could just be countered by another kind of "medication". Like antibiotics... keep upgrading... watch as the bacterium advance and evolve... more more more... perhaps I have a peculiar paranoia in regards to "mother nature" too. With all the enigmas, we grasp rather frantically for control. Doctors/therapists/trained "professionals" are not infallible. Neither am I --- ... no one is... you don't have to take my beliefs to heart. I still stand by that I wouldn't date someone who wasn't doing more to help themselves though =/... I would not hesitate to "befriend" them from solely that... but dating is something else altogether. If my current boyfriend broke down, I would of course stand by him (permitting he wanted to recover / was not crazy abusive)... that's different to me. Edited September 18, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
Feelin Frisky Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 ....an *actual* chemical imbalance in the brain is tested exactly how? Hormone levels can be tested... but any number of organs can influence those. There is no such test. And medicine produced is not done so under the assumption that its prescription can be directed to exactly meet the specific need of the individual. Not to fault or anything but a question like that implies a lack of understanding of both the issue and the nature of medicine. No two people are the same--and no human beings are "created" according to a specification by a creator. Just like ever other animal, human beings come into the world one at a time as a result of a genetic compositing process that NEVER turns out a perfect product. Today's SSRI medications are produced with the understanding that there is no "dip stick" into the living brain to check the micro-efficiency of neurotransmitter deployment necessary for the achievement of perception, understanding, motivation, fear and what all else humans and animals do because of electrochemical processes in the brain. Should science wait until their is a perfect test and an exact medication? Those may NEVER come and the stakes are too high for many people not to try to adjust what they can about the communication between neurons in the brain without knowing at the outset how much and what combination of substances will allow the person to achieve the "normality" that is elusive to him or her. There is no achievement of anything more than setting the electrochemical processes in the brain to what constitutes a healthy mental and emotional state. There is no pleasure for this kind of medication--no abuse potential--and no ability to achieve super-human ability to be smarter than everyone else. It's just a process of experimentation on the self with the proscription of a medical doctor to find the specific substances that bridges an inefficiency and gives the person a level playing field with other people who were more fortunate to turn out in sync electrochemically.
OnyxSnowfall Posted September 25, 2011 Posted September 25, 2011 There is no such test. And medicine produced is not done so under the assumption that its prescription can be directed to exactly meet the specific need of the individual. Not to fault or anything but a question like that implies a lack of understanding of both the issue and the nature of medicine. I was trying to point out that there wasn't such a test... ... I'm sorry you failed to interpret that. But it seemed to me that it would be an obvious interpretation, given the reply I was responding to (and the context I put it in)... my point being, yes, there's no such test. i.e please tell me how one *knows* their brain is truly abnormal at all times etc. etc. etc...
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