Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Huh? You just happened to be abstractly discussing marriage with your boyfriend? I am sure your bf heard this as attempt on your part to dig into his feelings on the topic. And, in fact, that's what you were doing:. No it didn't just come up, if you read my post you will see why it came up. And I wasn't sleeping away from him to punish him. I felt like I might cry which I wanted to do without him knowing it.
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 HE'S UPSET? this is so back wards - and good reason to understand that you two are NOT a good match. You're overreacting. When she says "he's upset," she's referring to the incompatibilities he's seen the last few months when she was, in her own words, "moody." The same moodiness she can't even remember well enough to relate to us here in this thread. None of us really know why he's even seeing her as incompatible, so it's completely impossible for us to say he's "backwards" for feeling that way.
Chocolat Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 No it didn't just come up, if you read my post you will see why it came up. And I wasn't sleeping away from him to punish him. I felt like I might cry which I wanted to do without him knowing it. I did read your OP and that's my point: you were fishing and it didn't work out well and now you want to blame him. But really, your bf had to know what was coming once you started mentioning that you'd like to spend around $20K on a wedding, that you want to have it in autumn, etc. Of course the next step would be for you to ask him whether he sees himself marrying you. And this was not a conversation that should have happened at this stage in your r/s. So it's no wonder he felt he had to clarify things by letting you know that the invitation to his friend's wedding is not a marriage proposal. Look, by your own admission, you are in a process of rebuilding your r/s right now. Your bf took a huge step -- he invited you to go overseas with him to his best friend's wedding, and that wedding is many months in the future. Rather than accept it, you had to go the next step and pressure him about whether he wanted to marry you. And then, when you did not hear what you wanted, you shut him out by sleeping on the couch. So what do you think his take-away is?
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 You're overreacting. When she says "he's upset," she's referring to the incompatibilities he's seen the last few months when she was, in her own words, "moody." The same moodiness she can't even remember well enough to relate to us here in this thread. None of us really know why he's even seeing her as incompatible, so it's completely impossible for us to say he's "backwards" for feeling that way. Ok, I have an example. I'm NOT a morning person, at all. It takes me while to "warm up". I'm not one of those people to wake up and scream "oh happy day" and be sunshine and giggles. I told him this. So I tried to turn that around and be more pleasant. I think I have done quite well. He considers my "morning" irritability, moody. And the fact that I was out of work, obviously didn't make me not being a morning person already, not any better.
iJester Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I'm trying to understand him saying "it takes longer than a week for me to be hopeful about the future of our relationship" I guess I move faster with my feelings. I know everyone is different. Of course you move faster with your feelings..you were the cause of problems/resentment. Good job of dodging my perfectly valid points earlier because of how it made you 'feel'.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Ok, I have an example. I'm NOT a morning person, at all. It takes me while to "warm up". I'm not one of those people to wake up and scream "oh happy day" and be sunshine and giggles. I told him this. So I tried to turn that around and be more pleasant. I think I have done quite well. He considers my "morning" irritability, moody. And the fact that I was out of work, obviously didn't make me not being a morning person already, any better.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Good job of dodging my perfectly valid points earlier because of how it made you 'feel'. I just don't respond to being spoken to in a disrespectful way.
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Ok, I have an example. I'm NOT a morning person, at all. It takes me while to "warm up". I'm not one of those people to wake up and scream "oh happy day" and be sunshine and giggles. I told him this. So I tried to turn that around and be more pleasant. I think I have done quite well. He considers my "morning" irritability, moody. And the fact that I was out of work, obviously didn't make me not being a morning person already, any better. Earlier you said that he said he didn't like it when you yelled or nagged. Were you yelling or nagging at him first thing in the morning? If you were slow to get going, I'm doubting it. You not being a morning person doesn't sound like it should be a dealbreaker, although obviously he may feel differently. Whatever you were yelling or nagging about is what's sticking with him. Any memory of what those things were?
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 I want to be able to move forward tonight in a positive manner. I don't want us to get out of work and see each other and feel angry. I want to have a nice night together and make progress. I saw his invitation overseas as a positive sign. But with our conversation last night that invite seemed to contradict how he actually felt. So after posting here I thought I could go home to him this evening with a fresh perspective.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) Earlier you said that he said he didn't like it when you yelled or nagged. Were you yelling or nagging at him first thing in the morning? If you were slow to get going, I'm doubting it. You not being a morning person doesn't sound like it should be a dealbreaker, although obviously he may feel differently. Whatever you were yelling or nagging about is what's sticking with him. Any memory of what those things were? Well he's not as tidy as I'am. He's def not a slob but I do most if not all the housework , his laundry, etc. And It sometimes irked me that he would leave stuff around or not put his clothes away and I had to ask him over and over to take care of something. He would than say I was nagging him, but if he took care of it the first or second time I wouldn't have had to "nag". Stuff like that. Since I wasn't working I didn't mind taking on the responsiblity of housekeeper, because he was paying the bills. Edited September 15, 2011 by Allie32
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Well he's not as tidy as I'am. He's def not a slob but I do most if not all the housework , his laundry, etc. And It sometimes irked me that he would leave stuff around or not put his clothes away and I had to ask him over and over to take care of something. He would than say I was nagging him, but if he took care of it the first or second time I wouldn't have had to "nag". Stuff like that. Since I wasn't working I didn't mind taking on the responsiblity of housekeeper, because he was paying the bills. You said he wasn't a slob and you were doing a lot more since you were around the house unemployed. What stuff was he not doing?
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 You said he wasn't a slob and you were doing a lot more since you were around the house unemployed. What stuff was he not doing? Cleaning up after himself, making a meal and leaving a small mess behind. Stuff like that. Leaving things around after use. I don't want to have to ask over and over.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Sometimes I just feel-felt like I have to let everything slide off my back. I'm a human being, not a robot.
serial muse Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 You, too, are making negative assumptions. Perhaps this guy is interested in a small wedding, or one that follows traditions from his own country. I haven't noticed her even saying which country he's from to know what marriages are like there. Seems to me that most American traditions seem materialistic to most of the rest of the world, so spending what for most people is 6 to 24 months of your discretionary income on a wedding could seem objectionable. Maybe much of this was discussed, but Allie didn't go into it, so we can't just assume the worst about him. Er, no, I'm not making any assumptions. He said what he said, as it was presented to us. Perhaps he *is* interested in a small wedding. The trouble is that calling her materialistic assumes that she won't be OK with that. She only said how much a typical US wedding costs, not that she would have to have one. That's an assumption on HIS part. Get it?
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Er, no, I'm not making any assumptions. He said what he said, as it was presented to us. Perhaps he *is* interested in a small wedding. The trouble is that calling her materialistic assumes that she won't be OK with that. She only said how much a typical US wedding costs, not that she would have to have one. That's an assumption on HIS part. Get it? I didn't say oh I have to have a huge, expensive wedding. He asked how true that 20,000 price tag is and I told him my sister and bestfriend paid about that much, and thats when he said he thought I was being materialistic. He never said that to me before..
serial muse Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I didn't say oh I have to have a huge, expensive wedding. He asked how true that 20,000 price tag is and I told him my sister and bestfriend paid about that much, and thats when he said he thought I was being materialistic. He never said that to me before.. Exactly. It sounds like he made a giant leap between "this is what other people paid" to "this is what I want to pay". Sigh. I think Kamille's right - the problem may just be one of compatibility. You two have very different communication styles, and it sounds like you're both having trouble feeling like you're being heard. I think the thing to keep in mind here, Allie, is that everyone on this thread, including me, is bringing our own relationship experiences to bear on yours. Someone who's dealt with a bipolar girlfriend is going to read "moody" as out of control. Someone who's dealt with an emotionally abusive partner will read your boyfriend's comments as possibly abusive. So none of us really knows what's going on between you two or who's "right". But that you're anxious is clear, and I do think that what someone said upthread is absolutely true: He's not the only one who gets to decide if this relationship is going to last. You do, too. Maybe we can't evaluate him effectively, but please don't forget that you know you best - and you're also evaluating him for longterm compatibility. He is just as accountable for his words and actions as you are.
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Cleaning up after himself, making a meal and leaving a small mess behind. Stuff like that. Leaving things around after use. I don't want to have to ask over and over. Was he doing all that before you became unemployed? If so, were you telling him about it? If so, it doesn't sound like a change during your "moody" time. It's probably something else--but if it isn't and that's sticking in his craw, he needs to open his mind a bit. Any man or woman he lives with in the future could easily have a problem with him not cleaning up after himself--I am an absolute slob who lives alone and even I realize that.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Exactly. It sounds like he made a giant leap between "this is what other people paid" to "this is what I want to pay". Sigh. I think Kamille's right - the problem may just be one of compatibility. You two have very different communication styles, and it sounds like you're both having trouble feeling like you're being heard. I think the thing to keep in mind here, Allie, is that everyone on this thread, including me, is bringing our own relationship experiences to bear on yours. Someone who's dealt with a bipolar girlfriend is going to read "moody" as out of control. Someone who's dealt with an emotionally abusive partner will read your boyfriend's comments as possibly abusive. So none of us really knows what's going on between you two or who's "right". But that you're anxious is clear, and I do think that what someone said upthread is absolutely true: He's not the only one who gets to decide if this relationship is going to last. You do, too. Maybe we can't evaluate him effectively, but please don't forget that you know you best - and you're also evaluating him for longterm compatibility. He is just as accountable for his words and actions as you are. I don't think opposites always equals dooms day. I'm still holding out for a resolution since we do love one another.
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Was he doing all that before you became unemployed? If so, were you telling him about it? If so, it doesn't sound like a change during your "moody" time. It's probably something else--but if it isn't and that's sticking in his craw, he needs to open his mind a bit. Any man or woman he lives with in the future could easily have a problem with him not cleaning up after himself--I am an absolute slob who lives alone and even I realize that. yes he was and yes I was...
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 I have something to attend tonight, which he probably forgot about. So he probably expects me to be there when he gets home. I was planning on making a nice dinner and having it ready for him to eat when he comes in, even though I will be out. When I get home later maybe he will have had time to think about things and feel better about it.
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 yes he was and yes I was... Well it may be something else then--but it might not be. Ask him what arguments/nagging/events are sticking in his craw. One of my exes "nagged" me about this kind of thing, but I thought of it as nagging because I wasn't thinking it through. When you're doing something that almost nobody else would stand besides you and he thinks of it as "nagging" because you're pointing out, he needs to realize another woman may simply leave him for being that way because he's "incompatible" with her. Once he has that happen to him once or twice, he may look back at your "nagging" as a VERY comparatively positive thing--at least you're trying to get him to change as opposed to discounting him entirely for selfish behavior. When he's doing things you don't like and you're pretty sure few other women would put up with it, illustrate that fact to him as clearly as you can. Ask him if his mom, or his sister, or any of his exes would put up with that ****. Have you met his mom? Try to get HER to pick up after himself, that was her job before it became yours.
serial muse Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 I don't think opposites always equals dooms day. I'm still holding out for a resolution since we do love one another. I know! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that your relationship is doomed. But I do think it requires more patience and willingness to go out of your comfort zones, as far as expectations and understanding of one another. If you think you both have the capacity for that, then that's awesome. However, I was getting the uncomfortable sense that you feel simultaneously apologetic and resentful about your boyfriend's reaction to you being moody during your unemployment period. Apologetic, because he has made it clear he doesn't like when you're moody - and resentful, because he has made it clear he doesn't like when you're moody. The question is how to talk about that with him. You don't want to go down the road of pretending not to feel what you genuinely do feel, because resentment is a relationship-killer. So I guess the challenge for both of you is to figure out whether or not you can find a way to talk about it.
Kamille Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Until last night I thought we were moving forward in a positive way, but the convo turned into a different animal. Guess I just feel like if things were moving on well, why is he still so upset.. It isn't so obvious to me that he is upset. you were there so you know better - but if I get the jist of the thread correctly, you're interpreting him saying "I'm not sure you're the one" as him saying "I'm angry at you". Another possible interpretation is "I'm not sure you're the one" meaning "I'm still trying to figure out if we as a couple have what it takes to make a marriage last and have a family to together". In my experience, that second interpretation is usually what (smart) men have in mind when they're thinking about a marriage partner. If your relationship has been rocky of late,it makes sense that he wants to wait to think about marriage. The fact he doesn't want to break up and says he loves you might indicate that he also is glad you found a job and is also hoping you two can step forward on solid ground. I'm trying to understand him saying "it takes longer than a week for me to be hopeful about the future of our relationship" I guess I move faster with my feelings. I know everyone is different. Again, it would take me longer than a week before I felt like I was on solid ground. I think it is wise to give the relationship time to mend. Or, said another way, I think it is unfortunate that you two landed on this topic before you both had time to just live your relationship free of the stressand gloominess you must have felt in the last few months. I want to be able to move forward tonight in a positive manner. I don't want us to get out of work and see each other and feel angry. I want to have a nice night together and make progress. I saw his invitation overseas as a positive sign. But with our conversation last night that invite seemed to contradict how he actually felt. So after posting here I thought I could go home to him this evening with a fresh perspective. Hopefully you can. I've always found that working out helps me get a better perspective, definitely more so than Loveshack, which, frankly, can be quite aggravating at times. The sense I am getting is that you want to give this relationship a chance, which means that you want to work on it. You are expressing as much doubt as he is right now. The playing field is even on that ground. But it sounds to me like you both want to move forward, and that is what I would bank on if I were you. That's why I agree with this: But that you're anxious is clear, and I do think that what someone said upthread is absolutely true: He's not the only one who gets to decide if this relationship is going to last. You do, too. Maybe we can't evaluate him effectively, but please don't forget that you know you best - and you're also evaluating him for longterm compatibility. He is just as accountable for his words and actions as you are. What if the question was flipped. Are you sure he's the one for you? That your relationship as it is now can lead to a long happy marriage and withstand the stress of raising children? If not, what do you need to make it better? What can you do and what can he do? Start focusing on solutions, on compromise and on hearing each other out.
EnigmaticClarity Posted September 15, 2011 Posted September 15, 2011 Have you met his mom? Try to get HER to pick up after himself, that was her job before it became yours. Err, that's supposed to say "Try to get HER to get him to pick up after himself"
Author Allie32 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Posted September 15, 2011 Well it may be something else then--but it might not be. Ask him what arguments/nagging/events are sticking in his craw. One of my exes "nagged" me about this kind of thing, but I thought of it as nagging because I wasn't thinking it through. When you're doing something that almost nobody else would stand besides you and he thinks of it as "nagging" because you're pointing out, he needs to realize another woman may simply leave him for being that way because he's "incompatible" with her. Once he has that happen to him once or twice, he may look back at your "nagging" as a VERY comparatively positive thing--at least you're trying to get him to change as opposed to discounting him entirely for selfish behavior. When he's doing things you don't like and you're pretty sure few other women would put up with it, illustrate that fact to him as clearly as you can. Ask him if his mom, or his sister, or any of his exes would put up with that ****. Have you met his mom? Try to get HER to pick up after himself, that was her job before it became yours. You also have valid points. I have not met his mom, I have only spoken to her on the phone. She lives outside the US.
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