Is she just shy or apologetic?

[ksmit]

Scroll down to bottom for questions if this is too long

 

Our relationship is on the border between friendship and romance (I think). Haven't kissed yet, but have been on a few dates. Just recently I admitted to liking her a lot, and we haven't been out since my confession till now. Keep in mind this is a very shy girl and she did have interest in me and still might.

Day 1

I'm supposed to go out with this girl I've been dating for a while, but she never got back with me. I'll admit I have been smothering her the past week and have been way too available, but I saw it as flat out disrespect.

 

Day 2

She messages me with an apology in the early AM which I ignore because I'm not happy. Few hours later she messages me again for what I'm doing for lunch. I ignore it, go to lunch, then message her that I already ate.

* she can sense I've backed off her completely at this point, I went from giving her attention almost every day to only responding when she contacted me*

 

Day 3

She asks me out for a casual dinner. I agree and she's acts VERY enthusiastic about it (more than any prior time we've been out). She even randomly messages me a few hours later just to tell me she's really excited about it. Please note that she has initiated everything since I began ignoring her on Day 2. Perhaps all I had to do was stop pursuing her.

 

When we finally meet at the diner, she looks amazing but is acting very shy and seems uncomfortable around me. Poor eye contact, not talking a lot, etc. Where did all that enthusiasm go? She offers to buy my meal, but I reject because I didn't really consider it a date. Just casually meeting after work.

 

When we were finding a seat, I was going to sit at a table so we can be face to face. But she insisted sitting in a round booth so I think great, maybe she wants to be close to me. But where does she sit? The VERY END and sets up a barrier with her purse! I figure she must be very uncomfortable around me, so I decide to respect her barrier and keep my hands off. The only real flirting I did was making good eye contact with her and talking in a very calm voice. I pretty much led the entire conversation and was confident.

 

The fact this girl even told me how enthusiastic she was about seeing me KNOWING that I like her must say something. Doesn't it?

 

#1 - If she really had no interest in me, would she have even bothered attempting to treat me to a meal? If I wasn't interested in a girl, I would not enthusiastically try to take them out and offer to pay for their meal - even if we were just friends.

 

#2 - Would a girl ever take a guy out as an apology just because you know he's been wanting to see you? And offer to buy his meal?

 

#3 - Can you explain her behavior to me? Is she apologizing or just being shy?

Edited September 14, 2011 by ksmit

[Keridan]

Sounds to me like she is unsure of her feelings and shy. Honestly, it also seems to me that you are over-analyzing (but that's hard to help, I know).

 

My suggestion is to ask her out again, see how it goes. If you like her that much, it's worth the risk. She can always say no. You can judge how her comfort level is. You seem to have some awareness of social cues. Just try not to get upset with her if you get mixed signals or feel rejected. Take it easy and try to have fun.

 

Good luck to ya!

 

Edit: I doubt the offer to pay had deep meaning. She may be progressive in that sense or she may just be unsure of protocols. It's possible she feels bad for not sharing interest, but then why press for the date and show excitement?

Edited September 14, 2011 by Keridan

[ksmit]

Excellent reply Keridan.

 

To everyone else, please don't make negative comments. I only want to hear about why I'm still in the game and what I should do next.

[dizy]

Did I just read "this is the first time we met since I have admitted my feelings"? DUDE SHE IS SHY! thats obvious. and believe me...girls don't have the habit to PAY for guys =) its already amazing if we pay for ourselves XD. She was obviously trying to please you by offering to pay you a meal and I think she really cares about you since she probably felt super bad after turning down your request considering the way how she contacted you.

and just to let you know, i acted exactly the same way when I first dated my ex. we were friends for years (not that close but still) and as soon as it gets official it becomes awkward.

There is no magical formula =) just spend more time with her, be nice and yourself. she will eventually get used to you being affectionate

good luck

[dizy]

and i like how you refuse to read any negative comments =) thats the spirit. I wish i can meet some positive guys like you. almost all the guy friends that I have would just say to themselves that its not worth it or think of it negatively.

[ksmit]

Thanks dizy. I'm wondering though if NOT letting her pay was a mistake. Insisting we paid for our own might have turned it from a date into a casual outing.

[coolheadal]

Sounds like your good at your observation of the girl. She's seems to be on the edge of life. As she been on dates before? Are you ready for her though? Either you go with the flow and tell her you can't deal with this right now. If that was me I would stick it out and see what happens next. Unless you have someone else to take out. I would keep going with her and maybe feel comfortable with you.

[ksmit]

Yes, she has had prior relationships in the past, but I have not and she doesn't know this. I don't know if I'm ready for her, but I would sure like to try advancing our relationship ASAP. We are both very shy though which makes it very difficult for the both of us. Just breaking the touching barrier has been torture.

 

I visited her today and she was glowing compared to yesterday. Lots of good eye contact. I offered to bring her a treat back for lunch. She accepted but insisted paying for it because she couldn't get me last time we were out. Fair enough. I told her I'd get her next time.

 

All seems to be going well right now, but I'm scared to ask her out again because she's been so unreliable in the past. What's a good date idea that would keep us close to each other and might even force a little intimacy? Privacy is a big concern too. I can't feel like I'm being watched if I'm to make a move. Late night walks seem to be the most relaxing and private.

[ksmit]

I was just thinking... what might I be able to do/say which would bring her guard down? I want to make her comfortable but when her guard is up it feels very unnatural to just go touch her anyway.

[yume]

Flirt with her and touch her arm. No need to molest, right?

 

Some people are more touchy-feely than others; some people move faster than others. There's nothing wrong with moving slowly - as long as you are both asking each other out and accepting, what is there to worry about? Everything will come eventually.

 

Have you hugged her in greeting or goodbye at all yet? (I skimmed the thread, so not sure) - try that if you haven't.

 

Edit: Date idea...hmm...a walk somewhere? My best first date was a 3 hour walk, and it did allow for some casual arm-brushing.

Edited September 14, 2011 by yume

[ksmit]

Have you hugged her in greeting or goodbye at all yet? (I skimmed the thread, so not sure) - try that if you haven't.

 

Edit: Date idea...hmm...a walk somewhere? My best first date was a 3 hour walk, and it did allow for some casual arm-brushing.

Excellent reply.

 

I didn't greet or goodbye her THIS TIME with a hug because we were just meeting casually after work. Perhaps I should have at least gave her a friendly hug, but the barriers she setup made it difficult.

 

Prior time she invited me out on a late night walk which ended in a romantic hug. It was the first REAL contact we had. I wanted to hold her hand, but it felt too awkward. I compromised by occasionally brushing arms/hands with her. I hope she realized I was trying to get close.

 

If she agrees to go on an actual real date. I'm going to give another romantic hug (because they're easy) but rather than letting go, I'm going to hold her closely and gaze into her eyes. If she's looking back, I'll try to go in for a kiss.

 

Biggest challenge right now is making her feel more comfortable around me...

[ksmit]

IMPORTANT UPDATE: I visited her today in the AM for the first time since early last week and she was glowing. I'm very confused though, please see below. Keep in mind that she KNOWS I like her since I admitted it a couple weeks ago.

 

Based off my research, here are some signs she showed that are supposedly very reliable indicators if a girl is interested in you. The following were from my surprise visit today:

* She stopped everything she was doing and gave me all of her attention

* Excellent mutual eye contact (long gazes) with flirtatious mannerisms with her eyes

* Turned directly towards me with both shoulders facing me

* She caressed her hands and arms a few times

* Didn't twirl her hair in an obvious fashion, but she did touch the hair by her ear a couple times

* Seemed genuinely enthusiastic about seeing me

 

During the conversation, she made a reference about someone making fun of her about never getting a boyfriend because etc and how it annoyed her (in a playful manner). I of course dispelled those things she said and hinted that I found nothing wrong with etc.

 

At the end of the shift, I ask her if she wants to get together this evening for a walk and now she supposedly has a headache. She said she's going to take some stuff for it and "let me know later" if she's feeling up for it. Based off prior experience, when she leaves any hint of doubt, it's usually a no.

 

Now... this girl is shy and very sensitive and doesn't seem to be the type that would toy with someone's emotions when they know you like them (AND WORK WITH THEM!). She's an absolute sweetheart. Can somebody tell me WTF is going on? Should I just try arranging something over the weekend and see what happens? If she can't make it tonight, shouldn't she counter-offer?

Edited September 20, 2011 by ksmit

[thatone]

going from your previous threads, you have potential here, but you need to be progressing from your last failure.

 

note that failure is not meant in a derogatory way. everyone fails, A LOT. whether you've been on one date in your life or a hundred, everyone fails. most first dates don't go any further than that. so keep that in mind. there's nothing to lose here.

 

you failed last time because you didn't make a move in time, and your intentions weren't clear.

 

this one sounds as shy as you are, so you have that in your favor, but that won't last. it's still up to you to get her to be more comfortable with you.

 

i would've said something completely different when she brought up being shy about dating.

 

you could've said "dating isn't supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be fun. sit and talk, eat a good meal, go home, what's difficult about that?"

 

but you missed out on that opportunity because you don't know what to say and when. you're way to hung up on physical contact and physical signals. get over it, forget it. you need to learn conversation first. what to say and when to say it. get over these "walks" that isn't a date. ask her out ON THE SPOT when she seems happy to see you, don't let her go without saying yes or no. right now. when she says yes, forget about all of this crap you read about physical signals and physical contact. pick her up, take her to a dinner, sit and talk. nothing else. see what she responds to and what she doesn't. listen to what she says.

 

when you figure that out, then you graduate to physical contact and physical signals. you're trying to win a marathon without knowing how to run the first mile. start at the start.

Edited September 21, 2011 by thatone

[ksmit]

i would've said something completely different when she brought up being shy about dating.

Wow thatone, I really appreciate the constructive reply. But more importantly the positivity you portrayed with it. Thank you!

 

She never said she was shy about dating, she just admitted to being sensitive and the shyness is just sort of obvious. I also don't think a girl who wasn't shy would have had this much patience with me.

 

Like you said though, the toughest thing is knowing what and when to say something. Not having any dating experience I second guess everything.

[thatone]

that's why i suggested what i did. your task at this point is straightforward.

 

WHILE HER INTEREST IS THERE, ask her out. go on the date, talk, listen. you'll learn.

 

forget about the rest for those first couple of dates. the rest is pretty simple, honestly.

[ksmit]

You forgot to KISS her at the end of it. Hahaha. But really, thanks for the simplification.

[thatone]

i know you won't believe it at this point but honestly, the physical stuff after those first few dates is really not difficult or awkward, nor should it be. if the attraction is mutual the physical aspect is easy.

 

so don't worry about it.

[ksmit]

That's a good point. Perhaps I've been focusing on the wrong areas all along...

[ksmit]

So yesterday we had amazing communication face-to-face, but today when I visited her she seemed gloomy, tired, and distant. The conversation didn't flow and just wasn't great. It's almost like I stirred up her emotions yesterday and got her thinking again. Maybe she slept as bad as I did? I suspect part of her wants me, but another part of her is trying to get away because I'm just too painful.

 

I want to ask her out again, but since today she hasn't been giving good signals. Only odd thing was she walked past my desk a while after I visited her and just smiled at me without saying anything. The 2 other times she's walked by in the past, she has always come to chat. Yes, over the past few months she has only swung by a couple times.

 

She is showing signs of avoidance today and I'm going insane because she's changed so much since yesterday.

[ksmit]

Another gloomy day with her today when I stopped by. She admitted being tired again (I think she really is) and I even told her she seemed to be glowing a couple days ago. I still haven't asked her out over the weekend because I'm discouraged at this point. She hasn't been initiating any contact lately, but I don't know what's going through her head because she's very flaky and unpredictable.

 

At this point, I think it might be best to ask her out for a nice dinner over the weekend and if she rejects it, I'm done. I don't think I can make my intentions any more clear.

 

Any thoughts welcome. Wish I could just know what she's thinking...

[Eddie Edirol]

Shes not even hot with you, shes lukewarm. I say drop it. This early in the dating game, she should be excited to see you every time. So I say shes not into you, shes just looking for attention. Ill even go as far to say that she is "shy" because shes not over an ex bf. Leave her alone.

[Professor X]

Another gloomy day with her today when I stopped by. She admitted being tired again (I think she really is) and I even told her she seemed to be glowing a couple days ago. I still haven't asked her out over the weekend because I'm discouraged at this point. She hasn't been initiating any contact lately, but I don't know what's going through her head because she's very flaky and unpredictable.

 

At this point, I think it might be best to ask her out for a nice dinner over the weekend and if she rejects it, I'm done. I don't think I can make my intentions any more clear.

 

Any thoughts welcome. Wish I could just know what she's thinking...

 

We're talking about the same chick from a few weeks ago? If so, you already botched it back then. No point beating a dead horse ya know.

[thatone]

don't necessarily disagree with the two posts above but i will point out before you come along with a third girl that your opportunity again was missed due to lack of initiative.

 

when she seems happy to see you, ask her out right then and there. don't wait around for whatever reason.

[ksmit]

Shes not even hot with you, shes lukewarm. I say drop it. This early in the dating game, she should be excited to see you every time.

I don't know how much of the thread you read, but it's not that early in the dating game. We've been communicating and seeing each other for months. If she wasn't still interested in me, why would she be super excited to see me after not seeing me for a while, then be sad and tired the following couple days? She has shown these patterns before when she was VERY interested. Even though I try to be descriptive, you don't know the whole story so you should always give me the benefit of the doubt. I think it's rather bold of you to just tell me to give up.

 

We're talking about the same chick from a few weeks ago? If so, you already botched it back then. No point beating a dead horse ya know.

Did you even read any of this thread? She tried to treat me to dinner last week.

 

don't necessarily disagree with the two posts above but i will point out before you come along with a third girl that your opportunity again was missed due to lack of initiative.

Third girl? There's only ever been one.

 

How do you guys feel about just being up front with her? At this point I understand I might have lost her, but I can't just walk away without knowing I did everything I could to save it.

 

How about this?

"I'd like to take you out this weekend, but if not, it was a blast spending time with you and I'm ready to let you go."

 

Might not be the best thing to say, so help me reach SOME sort of closure so I can eliminate any doubts. Whether I win her back or not, I want everything closed by tomorrow so I can try to enjoy my weekend.

[thatone]

you don't give the option of saying no when you ask her out. that's a terrible line. you ask casually as if you fully expect her to say yes.

 

i was assuming this was a different one.

 

if it's the same one, your window of opportunity i think has long since passed.