Nexus One Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 If you were really being logical during the discussion with your boyfriend, then that's probably what saved your @ss.
LexiB Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Why am I feeling sort of sorry for him? Why am I picturing a guy who wants his "GF" to move out, but just can't pull the trigger because he hates being mean and making a girl cry - and he gets badgered into letting her stay because she repeatedly drove the point home that she should stay." He didn't want to break up at all. He just thought that living separately would be better for our relationship. He even said he didn't want me to leave but he just thought it might be 'better' for us if I did (how does that even make sense? If you don't want me to leave then just don't have me leave...I brought that up too). He said we thought differently about it. I stated, in good sense, that it wouldn't solve any of our problems. It would only be a band-aid, because the very same issue could crop up again if we decided to live together again. Then he decided to be an ***, jerk me around by saying 'I need time to think', and then insinuate I only wanted to stay out of convenience when I had never said one single thing about how much of an inconvenience or hassle it would be for me. As I said in my OP, it didn't even cross my mind. All I kept thinking about was that our relationship could be over. If I didn't love him so much and want our relationship to work out I would've left of my own accord and dumped him for that. He had no right to say that to me, no foundation at all for that argument. I agree with Lucky One on the bolded. It definitely sounds like you badgered him to let you stay. His persistence that you move out and request "to think" about letting you stay + the fact that you had to plead (yell?) your case in order for him to change his mind, does not imo = a decision that was arrived at willingly. You said his rationale for wanting you to move out doesn't make sense. I've found that when a person is adamant about a point but doesn't, or seemingly can't, present a compelling argument to back it up, it usually represents one of two things: 1. The person is a nitwit (bigots & most politicians come to mind), or 2. Fear. In reality, the point at issue is indeed what the person believes or wants, but they can't bring themselves to verbalize the true reason behind their position for whatever reason (fear of hurting someone’s feelings, fear of repercussions, etc.), and a BS excuse is used instead. In essence, what appears to be feeble logic or a poorly thought-out idea, is really no more than a shoddy cover up story. I don't know what your bf’s motive was in asking you to move out, but I do believe that that’s genuinely what he wants. Otherwise he wouldn't have repeatedly pressed the issue. Methinks he just caved under pressure. Kudos to you for knowing how to get what you want in life, but will you really be satisfied staying in a forced living arrangement?
eerie_reverie Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Aren't y'all living in a studio apartment? I thought I read that in some thread. If so, between the cramped living space and your lack of transport, I don't see that can possibly be the ideal situation in which your love can flourish. I think he is right that you should move out and gain some independence. You are so young, and there is so much s!ht you still need to get together before adding another person into the mix. JMO.
Janesays Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I certainly didn't stay a victim. I fought for what I wanted, I got it, and we're both happy. I'm sorry, I just got this mental picture of you glaring at him while saying, "Tell them you're happy! Tell them! Tell them how happy you are! NOW!" while he ducks his head and insists in a quavering voice, "I'm...happy! Please don't yell at me anymore!" :laugh:
JohnnyCage Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I'm sorry, I just got this mental picture of you glaring at him while saying, "Tell them you're happy! Tell them! Tell them how happy you are! NOW!" while he ducks his head and insists in a quavering voice, "I'm...happy! Please don't yell at me anymore!" :laugh: lmao. This sounds about right.
LittleTiger Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Indeed. The trajectory of your relationship looks like this to me: You do/don't do something. He asserts himself. You fight. He caves. Rinse. Repeat. You come off very much as "my way or the highway" and that seems unhealthy. It's not your intentions or your right to assert how you feel about your relationship that I take issue with. It's your method. How you communicate. The way that you fight. But I'm not dating you; I have no idea how he feels about it. And I certainly don't wish the two of you failure. I just really wonder about your relationship dynamic. I agree with this. ^^^ I also agree with those who are saying your bf 'caved' when he let you stay. The way your relationship has played out recently and the dynamics that exist between you suggest that he wants to end things but isn't able to assert himself (against you) strongly enough to carry it through. I hope you guys manage to work it out sooner or later because neither of you seems particularly happy.
Star Gazer Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I certainly didn't stay a victim. I fought for what I wanted, I got it, and we're both happy. Yup. YOU fought for what YOU wanted, and YOU got it, be damned what HE wants. Given everything you've described about how you handle conflicts in your relationship, I bet good money he's anything but happy. Sorry to say.
make me believe Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 One thing I notice about your threads is that you consistently talk about your boyfriend in such a disrespectful way. In this thread alone you've called him a jerk, an ass (twice), and the sarcasm you use when describing his point of view or his arguments is so heavy, negative, and off-putting. I also agree with those who say it sounds like you basically forced him to let you continue living with him. The fact that he even suggested you move out says a lot. Sure, he eventually semi-relented & said that he needed time to think, and then he relented completely after you repeatedly pushed the issue... but why would you even want to live with a guy if you have to work so hard to convince him it's a good idea?
torn_curtain Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Your approach to relationships is all about "winning" and power struggles. I see a lot of codependence but I don't see a trace of love or mutual respect. If a guy didn't want me to live with him anymore, even if he was just having strong doubts, you bet I'd be out of there and fast. I wouldn't force a situation or give him some sort of ultimatum to make him change his mind.
Nexus One Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) One thing I notice about your threads is that you consistently talk about your boyfriend in such a disrespectful way. In this thread alone you've called him a jerk, an ass (twice), and the sarcasm you use when describing his point of view or his arguments is so heavy, negative, and off-putting. I also agree with those who say it sounds like you basically forced him to let you continue living with him. The fact that he even suggested you move out says a lot. Sure, he eventually semi-relented & said that he needed time to think, and then he relented completely after you repeatedly pushed the issue... but why would you even want to live with a guy if you have to work so hard to convince him it's a good idea? I think MMB has some good points. It seems counter-intuitive that a woman wants to stay with a man she calls a jerk/ass. Do you even like this guy? Personally I would feel like sh*t if I had to argue with a woman in order to convince her to want to live with me. Sure I might convince her with arguments, but that would basically feel like the beginning of the end to me, because the strongest argument for someone to be with me should be myself. And that argument should go without saying and that's probably why I won't initiate such a discussion, because if I had to convince her through discussion, then I'd feel like I already lost her. She should want to be with me out of her own free will and that will should have its roots in her own opinion of me. My point is that if it becomes a battle to convince your SO to stay together in the same house, then what does that say about how much he actually likes your personality? I'm not trying to crush your hopes or give you a sh*tty feeling TA, but in my opinion these are things of concern. Edited September 13, 2011 by Nexus One
OliveOyl Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 This is my view: Tigress was fighting for the relationship, because she knows that if she moved out, the relationship would be over. I do believe the relationship would end if she moved out. Her BF may have wanted the relationship to end, or not; or maybe he wasn't thinking things through clearly and she was. In that sense I think "arguing" for staying was a good thing if you look at it through the lens of wanting to give the relationship a chance of surviving. They may or may not be compatible enough to last, but now that she's got a job, there will be a chance to see whether things can finally work out. I have noticed (in my limited sample set) that while women are supposed to be really emotional, and men supposed to be logical, that often men don't have as much of the capability to project into the future and predict how current actions will affect the "arc" of the relationship (or project, or circumstance they want to change.) Maybe this is not a gender thing but with both my ex and my current BF, they seem to take things day by day and "hope things will work out for the best" whereas I am constantly projecting how current actions may affect the future. I think Tigress accurately projected into the future that her moving out = relationship over... whereas her BF may have not been able to do that yet.
thatone Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 We did. We decided that we have been talking way too much about our relationship instead of actually being in it. We've forgotten how good it can be because we have been talking so much. So we are going to just be in our relationship. I had suggested that as a bit of a 'challenge' over Labor Day weekend and that, we both agreed, was the best time we had together since we first started dating. that's fantastic. since neither of you can express who you really are without disgusting the other, just stew over menial things in silence. on the plus side, neither of you are ruining anyone else's life.
Star Gazer Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I agree with the following posts: One thing I notice about your threads is that you consistently talk about your boyfriend in such a disrespectful way. In this thread alone you've called him a jerk, an ass (twice), and the sarcasm you use when describing his point of view or his arguments is so heavy, negative, and off-putting. I also agree with those who say it sounds like you basically forced him to let you continue living with him. The fact that he even suggested you move out says a lot. Sure, he eventually semi-relented & said that he needed time to think, and then he relented completely after you repeatedly pushed the issue... but why would you even want to live with a guy if you have to work so hard to convince him it's a good idea? I think MMB has some good points. It seems counter-intuitive that a woman wants to stay with a man she calls a jerk/ass. Do you even like this guy? Personally I would feel like sh*t if I had to argue with a woman in order to convince her to want to live with me. Sure I might convince her with arguments, but that would basically feel like the beginning of the end to me, because the strongest argument for someone to be with me should be myself. And that argument should go without saying and that's probably why I won't initiate such a discussion, because if I had to convince her through discussion, then I'd feel like I already lost her. She should want to be with me out of her own free will and that will should have its roots in her own opinion of me. My point is that if it becomes a battle to convince your SO to stay together in the same house, then what does that say about how much he actually likes your personality? I'm not trying to crush your hopes or give you a sh*tty feeling TA, but in my opinion these are things of concern.
Lucky_One Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 You can afford to live on your own? I thought he made you reservations in some crappy roadside hotel and paid for them, because you couldn't pay yourself? And if he wants things to work out in this R, he would have automatically included you with the weekend plans with his brother. Even if he only half-way wanted them to work out, he would have grudgingly let you go visit his brother rather than put you up in a hotel during a flood. I just don't see where he is all excited about being with you as a GF.
sunshinegirl Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Ditto Star's comment above mine. Nexus One and MMB said it very well. If someone has one foot out the door, it's better to give them a gentle push so they can be on their way, rather than yanking them by the arm back into the room and locking the door behind them. I really think that somewhere down the line, you will look back on this moment and wish you had moved out.
Feelsgoodman Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Tigress, I've been following your posts on this board with admittedly somewhat morbid curiosity. One thought that keeps coming to mind is that the men you are dating must have done something really evil in their past lives...
eerie_reverie Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I think that: It's foolish to argue someone into making decision that should come from the heart (as you did)It would be better for your relationship if you postponed living together until:You both can afford a place that is bigger than a studioYou have a means of transportationYou are more financially stableIn short, I don't agree with the point of view that this relationship NEEDS to be over if you move out, that you are just postponing working through issues that are just going to keep coming up, etc. (in other words, your entire argument for living with him). Based on what you've posted about where you are in your life, I don't think you should be living with a boyfriend, especially one you haven't been with for all THAT long or have any doubts about.
Stung Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Tigress, I hope you know I do like you. You're a bright young woman, independent, and usually quite open to constructive criticism. Like you, I am also somewhat headstrong and can be temperamental, and like you I had to learn some of my life-lessons the hard way. I'm sure you're feeling a little beat up on by this thread, considering how emotional I presume you still are from recent events, but I hope you will take the advice as well-meant and take it under advisement. Now, I have read most of your prior threads re: this relationship, but I'm going to keep it short, here. No matter what happens in this particular relationship, there are three things you are really going to have to learn and do some emotional work on, IMO: 1. How to compromise. 2. How to pick your battles. 3. Better conflict resolution skills. Nobody just pops out of the womb with these skills, btw. There's nothing horrible about needing work in these areas--most of us are works in progress. Anyway, as another poster said in your previous thread (I want to say it was Mme. Chaucer, but I can't be arsed to go and doublecheck), you might be surprised to know (and possibly take some comfort in that knowledge) just how many of us HAVE gone through this kind of painful growth experience in one variation or another. Livin' ain't easy.
Author tigressA Posted September 14, 2011 Author Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks to all who posted here. I appreciate the advice. I pretty much always do. Reading the subsequent posts, I actually went back to BF and asked him how he was really feeling about his decision. I had asked him if he was really okay with it and if he didn't just say it because I argued my point so much. I even echoed Nexus One's post about how the only argument should be myself. He assured me that it was all his choice and he is happy, that he really doesn't want me to leave. He looked into my eyes and said this, and I believe him. I believe he is happy with me and with the choice he's made. We talked about it a bit more and I said, "When you first said you didn't want me to leave, but you felt I should--that didn't make sense to me. It still doesn't." He had clarified in his own way, and since it was still a bit confusing to me I said, "So it's like...you don't want to take cough medicine because it tastes really gross, but it will make you feel better, so you should?" He said, "Yeah. Like that." But that's not really relevant anymore, so... He asked me if it was any posts here that made me go back and ask him all this. I said yes. He knows I post here. That's when I gave it some thought. I have decided to take a break from LS altogether, and no longer post about my relationship when/if I do come back. I appreciate the advice I get here--but my habit of second-guessing myself has been fed constantly by this site, and I have been doubting so many things. I need to learn to live my life and be in my relationship without input like this, because it's done me more harm than good recently. After reading these posts I began doubting BF's decision and happiness SO MUCH that I went back and revisited the topic with him because I had to make sure he really was happy and hadn't just 'caved in' and was secretly miserable with me like you all suggested. I felt horribly insecure and I came pretty close to suggesting to him that perhaps I should move out. I was that convinced he must really want to be away from me and not continue our relationship. I don't want to live like this anymore--I don't want to doubt myself, I don't want to doubt him, I don't want to doubt us. So I'm taking this time to say goodbye. Most likely it will be temporary. When/if I return I'll be posting about anything but my relationship. If anyone wants to say anything here, that's cool. I'll read it, but I won't be responding. I feel like LS has helped me some in the 2+ years I've been posting, but recently it's just done a number on me. Time for a breather.
Eternal Sunshine Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Good call on not posting about your relationship anymore. I am taking a break myself and it is making me feel so much more secure and stable. Like you, I would doubt and second guess everything after posting on here. I was in constant turmoil. Good luck and remember: LISTEN TO YOURSELF.
Els Posted September 20, 2011 Posted September 20, 2011 Hey, Tigress... I recall you posting on my 'overanalyzing myself' thread, a good year or so ago. IMO, LS draws in the overanalytical, self-doubting, introspective sort of person for the very reason that it can also be harmful to us - it aids our overanalyzing. You should not be responding to this but, I think you probably made the best decision, all things said and done. All the best!
Pierre Posted September 20, 2011 Posted September 20, 2011 He didn't want to break up at all. He just thought that living separately would be better for our relationship. He even said he didn't want me to leave but he just thought it might be 'better' for us if I did (how does that even make sense? If you don't want me to leave then just don't have me leave...I brought that up too). He said we thought differently about it. Your BF is correct! The relationship will be much better when you move out. Living together without commitment is a relationship killer.
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