calling all swingers/poly/open relationship experienced peoples

[CTindy]

Hi there!

I really hope I am posting in the right area. I found this forum while googling.. I have a fairly complicated situation I would love some input on.

 

Background : Married for four years to now exH, very jealous and controlling to the point of verbal abuse which eventually went physical after marriage had effectively died for a year and he ended up in jail. DAYS after I met current DH. He was everything I wanted, open to swinging, me having a girlfriend as I have a preference for women etc. He told me about his escapades in swinging and I fell for him. He spouted everything I had always dreamed of that my ex freaked about.

Fast forward four years.. we have swung. He tends to have panic attacks, problems getting/staying hard or other various things happen that halt any swapping that may happen. Over the last two years things have tapered off to practically nothing (9 months since last time). I am at the point where I think seperate rooms would be the only way but I think afterwords would not be worth the trouble.. I am extremely frustrated. He states its because he didnt love his ex so he didnt care who she slept with or who he slept with..

Now I feel like I am married to a stranger in this regard. I love him, I love our family but the sex life sucks. My sex drive is suffering which is now causing problems. The actual sex between us is fine. But I want more. I feel some people were just not meant to be monogamous. I am one of those people. I have gotten to the point of fantasizing over people I meet randomly. There are a few people I know who I have crushes on I would love the ok to play with. I wont cheat, I would leave him before I did that, but I am tempted.

I want the man I met back I dont know what to do. I have tried helping him, going slow, boosting esteem. he now says he doesnt want anyone but me. While I want more than him. This is a major issue. I could see myself living poly or in a commune easily and loving it. He on the other hand....

 

I could really use any outsiders thoughts. I am starting to question the marriage in general. My mom got divorced after 20 years a couple years ago because of the same reasons (people change). I dont want to waste 20 years to discover I hate myself for not moving on when I was unhappy. But I also dont want to risk losing a wonderful man/husband/father..Help! Thanks ahead of time

[CarrieT]

I want the man I met back I dont know what to do. I have tried helping him, going slow, boosting esteem. he now says he doesnt want anyone but me. While I want more than him. This is a major issue. I could see myself living poly or in a commune easily and loving it. He on the other hand....

 

I could really use any outsiders thoughts. I am starting to question the marriage in general. My mom got divorced after 20 years a couple years ago because of the same reasons (people change). I dont want to waste 20 years to discover I hate myself for not moving on when I was unhappy. But I also dont want to risk losing a wonderful man/husband/father..Help! Thanks ahead of time

 

Look at the two points I have highlighted.

 

You acknowledge people change and your husband has changed but you haven't accepted that.

 

I know a lot of poly couples and they invariably don't work when one person in the relationship changes and the other can't accept the change.

 

It sounds like your husband has moved into that zone where the poly doesn't work for him and as hard as it will be, you will have to let him go.

[John Bigboote]

You say you're in a relationship, but I don't see much evidence of you trying to understand his feelings. Swinging relationships aren't any different than vanilla relationships: they still require mutual respect and understanding. Even more so. But to you, his feelings seem to be nothing more than obstacles to be overcome. You're not taking the time to listen to him and renegotiate in a mutual way. You say you want to "help him," but only insofar as it changes him enough to get you more pussy. If he doesn't want to be changed, then you're undermining everything.

 

On the other hand, you have a right to be upset. Your husband has unilaterally changed the rules on you. Monogamy was never in the plan; it was never even considered when this relationship was growing. Now suddenly he wants a completely different mode. It's no more fair than if someone in a long term monogamous pair came out and said, "Honey, I'm going to start sleeping with other women now. Take it or leave it."

 

You're not entirely forthcoming about exactly what his boggle is, but if it's just that he's tired of swinging and doesn't want to do it any more, then there are plenty of successful half-open or mono/poly relationships in the world. Perhaps you can have your fun in a guest room set aside in your house, or out of your house, where he doesn't have to see or participate.

 

And that is really your only recourse. If you can't negotiate something like that, then you need to have a talk with him, tell him what you've said here, that you are simply not interested in monogamy. You never have been, you never will be, this was never a part of your arrangement. Swinging is your price of admission. If he's no longer willing to pay that price, then your choice is either to accept it or leave. If you accept it, you have to really accept it, and really decide to be monogamous with him. If you leave, you have to really leave and not hope to change him, because people can't change other people. People can only change themselves.

[John Bigboote]

I know a lot of poly couples and they invariably don't work when one person in the relationship changes and the other can't accept the change.

 

How is that different from the same situation in a mono couple? People change all the time, and their partners struggle, but when it happens in monogamous pairs, I never see anyone blaming monogamy for it.

[stillafool]

It definitely seems your husband has changed from the man you married and I can understand your concern given your sex drive and expectations before marriage. The only suggestion I have is to get some type of counseling to reach a compromise. May I ask why you decided to marry anyone when you know you have a sexual desire for many?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So again I read the OP again just to make sure I have it right. The OP says she has a preference for women and had a GF, when she met her husband.

 

She is not clear (actually doesn't mention it at all) if she sleeps with other men. Also does her husband have problem have sex with her (or with OW's in a swinging situation).

 

Sex is fine when they do have it, but still not clear as to how much they are having it and what the problem is.

 

So he doesn't want an open relationship anymore, which I understand and happens as people do CHANGE.... However if you marry someone who is bisexual and told you that from day one (i.e. had a GF), I don't understand how you can deny them being with someone of the same sex as YOU can not offer them that.

 

BTW has any woman ever married someone openly gay (with a boyfriend), and then told him after a while that he can no longer be "gay"?:p;)

[Osiris1234]

He told me about his escapades in swinging and I fell for him.

 

Sounds like you married him just for the swinging aspect of it and not actually being in love with him.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Osiris1234

[zsu234]

Sweetie

 

You're just not marriage material, accept it and move on. Some people are just not cut out for it and you've realized that you are one of those people.

[Saul Goodman]

The two of you sound sexually incompatible. In fact, it sounds like a more general incompatibility-you want very different things from him: you want more.

 

Relationships end due to incompatability all the time. Open relationships are nothing special in this regard.

 

If neither of you are going to compromise (and I'll assume that you two have spoken for hours about this and discussed your options, before you decided to come to LS) than things just aren't going to end well. It doesn't sound like either of you will back down (and that isn't always necessarily a bad thing).

 

You can either let the resentment build up over years and years...or end it while the two of you are still on relatively friendly terms. He can enter a purely monogamous relationship with another lovely lady, which is what he wanted with you right? And you can go live the poly life. It's a win-win in the long run.

 

That's just my opinion though.

 

You're not entirely forthcoming about exactly what his boggle is, but if it's just that he's tired of swinging and doesn't want to do it any more, then there are plenty of successful half-open or mono/poly relationships in the world.

Or that. Edited September 13, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[CTindy]

You say you're in a relationship, but I don't see much evidence of you trying to understand his feelings. Swinging relationships aren't any different than vanilla relationships: they still require mutual respect and understanding. Even more so. But to you, his feelings seem to be nothing more than obstacles to be overcome. You're not taking the time to listen to him and renegotiate in a mutual way. You say you want to "help him," but only insofar as it changes him enough to get you more pussy. If he doesn't want to be changed, then you're undermining everything.

On the other hand, you have a right to be upset. Your husband has unilaterally changed the rules on you. Monogamy was never in the plan; it was never even considered when this relationship was growing. Now suddenly he wants a completely different mode. It's no more fair than if someone in a long term monogamous pair came out and said, "Honey, I'm going to start sleeping with other women now. Take it or leave it."

You hit the nail on the head with the second paragraph. Hence the reason I am distressed. I have tried and tried to squash my feelings for the sake of my kids (from previous marriage) his kid and our marriage but I cant.

You're not entirely forthcoming about exactly what his boggle is, but if it's just that he's tired of swinging and doesn't want to do it any more, then there are plenty of successful half-open or mono/poly relationships in the world. Perhaps you can have your fun in a guest room set aside in your house, or out of your house, where he doesn't have to see or participate.

I have suggested this, he does not want me looked at by any other person much less touched. He wants me entirely for himself which I understand in a typical relationship but that is not what we went in to this with. His issue is jealousy, insecurity I guess with the thought of losing me. His parents are dead and he has lost a lot including custody of his kid, I know that he thinks he will lose everything he loves, he has said this before.

And that is really your only recourse. If you can't negotiate something like that, then you need to have a talk with him, tell him what you've said here, that you are simply not interested in monogamy. You never have been, you never will be, this was never a part of your arrangement. Swinging is your price of admission. If he's no longer willing to pay that price, then your choice is either to accept it or leave. If you accept it, you have to really accept it, and really decide to be monogamous with him. If you leave, you have to really leave and not hope to change him, because people can't change other people. People can only change themselves.

I know that I can not accept it without living in misery.. that makes me sad. I do love him but this was not the life I signed up for Uhg I guess I knew this before I posted I just was hoping someone would have dealt with this before and have advice based on that.

[CTindy]

The only suggestion I have is to get some type of counseling to reach a compromise. May I ask why you decided to marry anyone when you know you have a sexual desire for many?

How do you go about finding a councler that has experience with alternitive lifestyles??

Also when we married I did not think it was an issue, he was a lot more open then.

[CTindy]

So again I read the OP again just to make sure I have it right. The OP says she has a preference for women and had a GF, when she met her husband.

Actually what I said was he was open to me having a gf. But it turns out he is open to threesomes with a female but NOT to me having a gf. Theres a big difference.

She is not clear (actually doesn't mention it at all) if she sleeps with other men. Also does her husband have problem have sex with her (or with OW's in a swinging situation).

I have only done full swap twice during the marriage I believe, he does not have a problem with staying hard if he is playing with me, only with others even if I am right next to him. I would like to have the option to form relationships with either sex as I am attracted to both but honestly have avoided it in the swinging world due to the problems already mentioned. I would probably be content with just a GF. But again I dont know.. I do not currently have anyone I would like to be in a relationship with outside of him. Just people I am highly attracted to.

Sex is fine when they do have it, but still not clear as to how much they are having it and what the problem is.

couple times a week on average

So he doesn't want an open relationship anymore, which I understand and happens as people do CHANGE.... However if you marry someone who is bisexual and told you that from day one (i.e. had a GF), I don't understand how you can deny them being with someone of the same sex as YOU can not offer them that.

exactly although as I said above, open to me means either sex. He is bi so he understands that portion. I have let him play with males alone in the recent past which makes it feel very hypocritical to me.

[CTindy]

Sounds like you married him just for the swinging aspect of it and not actually being in love with him.

Incorrect, the swinging aspect made him a viable dating option. HE is what made me fall in love

 

I always wonder what's genetically wrong with a woman when she lives for her genitals, like the OP apparently does. You see men behave like this all the time, but when a woman acts like this, it's just not very attractive. Too much testosterone, perhaps?

 

And who the hell throws away "a wonderful man, husband and father" just for the cheap thrills she can get at some swinger party or event?

It is quite obvious you are not in an open/poly relationship nor have ever been. It is not cheap thrills I want. The sex is important yes I admit that but thats not the point.

 

Maybe the day will come when you quit thinking with your nether-regions and realize this sleazy crap wasn't NEARLY as important as you thought it was. When you're 75 and none of the swingers at the latest party are interested in banging you 5 at a time in the hot tub anymore, you're going to realize how foolish you were to put this stupidity first.

 

Is there something in the water or something?? Hormones in beef? I don't get it.

When I am 75 I hope to have a couple loved ones getting old with me. Not just one. The parties are not important and quite frankly I detest them.

[CTindy]

You say you're in a relationship, but I don't see much evidence of you trying to understand his feelings. Swinging relationships aren't any different than vanilla relationships: they still require mutual respect and understanding. Even more so. But to you, his feelings seem to be nothing more than obstacles to be overcome. You're not taking the time to listen to him and renegotiate in a mutual way. You say you want to "help him," but only insofar as it changes him enough to get you more pussy. If he doesn't want to be changed, then you're undermining everything..

I want to go back to this paragraph. Durring the time we have been together we have gone through a lot more than most people in a 10 year span. Its been rough but we have prevailed. His feelings are very important to me, that is why I am here. If they werent I could have cheated on him or left a long time ago. I have listened and the conversation goes in circles it seems. What it boils down to is sex=intimacy/love to him where to me sex does not at all equal love, it is a purely physical act. I think I will talk to him about counseling and see where that leads us.

[Saul Goodman]

I think I will talk to him about counseling and see where that leads us.

 

Well, good luck with that. I mean, I know that you are going to do everything in your power to save the relationship. Which is fine.

 

But as I said before (and it's pretty damned obvious), this is about as sexually incompatible as you can get. Opposite ends of the spectrum. Open relationships aren't exempt from basic logic anymore than closed relationships. Whatever, I won't be the negative nancy here.

 

Ya just have to see how counseling goes I guess.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Saul Goodman

[CTindy]

I respect that and unfortunately agree. If it doesn't work at least we part ways amicably and the ability to say we tried everything.

[Saul Goodman]

I respect that and unfortunately agree. If it doesn't work at least we part ways amicably and the ability to say we tried everything.

 

As long as you keep yourself grounded during this process.

 

How long have you been "abstaining"?

 

Anyway, people change. I've learnt that the hard way unfortunately. You have my sympathies, although you may not want them.

[CTindy]

As long as you keep yourself grounded during this process.

 

How long have you been "abstaining"?

 

Anyway, people change. I've learnt that the hard way unfortunately. You have my sympathies, although you may not want them.

 

How do you suggest I stay grounded? I meditate and thats the only grounded I know of is there another?

 

Also what are you referring to, abstaining?

[Saul Goodman]

How do you suggest I stay grounded? I meditate and thats the only grounded I know of is there another?

 

Also what are you referring to, abstaining?

 

Grounded = Keeping yourself in a realistic state of mind, which is what you are doing right now. You do it by thinking rationally.

 

The "abstaining" question was answered in your OP, which I only skim read. Oops.

 

Anyway, I'll leave you to it.

[stillafool]

Also when we married I did not think it was an issue, he was a lot more open then.

 

I mean why marry anyone at all? Being single would allow you to do who and what you want to do. Why would you need a husband?

[John Bigboote]

How do you go about finding a councler that has experience with alternitive lifestyles??

Also when we married I did not think it was an issue, he was a lot more open then.

 

Counseling is not a bad idea. To find someone, there are usually posterboards for sex-positive services at your local swingers club or adult toy store. If not, just ask people at your club who they see. It might even be someone there that night!

 

I feel for you. I don't know what I would do if my primary partner decided it was going to be strict monogamy from here on out. We would probably have to split. Your OP though, really made it sound like you didn't care for him at all any more. If you still do, then counseling, I think.

 

I'm not sure I would get my hopes up though... for one thing, you seem to be more poly while he is/was a swinger, if he ever was even that. Two full swaps in 10 years is not terribly regular swinging. I think you found someone who is naturally monogamous but at one point was experimenting and got caught up in the nonmonogamous culture. Nonmonogamous people don't tend to say things like "I want you all to myself," or get upset when other people see you naked. Sounds like he only got into swinging in the first place because he wasn't into his previous GF. Which is a completely monogamish way of thinking: "it's not serious, so we might as well have fun while it lasts," whereas a naturally nonmonogamous person would say, "Now that we're serious, let's go have some fun together!"

Edited September 14, 2011 by John Bigboote

[sxyNYCcpl]

CTindy-

My wife and I are in the lifestyle and we love everything about it. You said one thing in your OP that really jumped out to me, and may ultimately be the real problem.

 

You said that he has issues getting it up in group situations. It happens, and the worst part about it is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The moment he starts to worry about it, that very worry MAKES it happen.

 

The solution? Pharmaceuticals. Personally, I like 36 hour Cialis, last weekend I went twice in 20 minutes and I'm 42 lol. But find what works for him.

 

Good luck.

[oldshirt]

Think of you two as on two different points on a spectrum. The spectrum ranges from strictly monogamous to strictly poly with swinger in the middle.

 

You are way to the poly side and it sounds like he is more in the swinger section and somewhat close to the monongamy side.

 

I can't help but wonder if when you first met, what attracted you to each other was that you were each open to swinging/poly but didn't quite grasp what each of those concepts really meant and you didn't fully appreciate where each of you fell on that spectrum.

 

What it will take to find a solution is for each of you to really communicate very seriously and openly on what each of you wants out of life and out of the relationship.

 

It may take a qualified counselor to help you sort these things out and to negotiate a solution. I reccommend doing some homework in finding a counselor that is lifestyle friendly and deals with consensual nonmonogamy as most counselors probably are biased towards monogamy.

 

In the end it will boil down to what each of you value more. Do you value the freedom to experience other people and other experiences more or do you value your relationship with each other more.