endlessrevision Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 My fiancee has extreme issues with me finding any other females "pretty, arousing, or attractive". She'd greatly prefer it if I stopped noticing other girls in general, and has wanted me to work on this. This has made me extremely uptight and paranoid over the past several months. I've been constantly on the lookout for people that I might find "pretty, arousing, or attractive" so that I can prevent any sort of pretty judgement or attraction etc. from occurring. If I look at a girl too long (sometimes she thinks I'm looking when I'm not) she'll ask me questions about it so that she can understand it. She says that it helps her cope to know everything she can about it. If I do get nervous when around another girl, even briefly, she will sometimes question me about it for quite a long time. It makes me feel awful, like I'm being interrogated constantly about insignificant things. She says that she's working on getting over her issues, but that it will likely take years and may never happen. Her issues have damaged my ability to watch movies or browse the internet, for fear that some girl might pop out who's not wearing enough clothing etc. I realize this is likely my own problem, however, Recently I had a sort of mental break, where I realized how depressed, stressed, and unhappy I had become recently due to feeling trapped and controlled. I started to question everything in our relationship and doubted that I even wanted a monogamous relationship at all. After a misunderstanding, I looked at a fair amount of porn on the internet and was horrified to see how much I enjoyed it. (After not looking at it for nearly a year.) It's like the strict banishment of all other females has intensified my reaction to them. And its not that I don't love my fiancee. I love her a great deal, so much that I don't see how I'll be alright without her. My attraction to other girls is merely superficial, I would always prefer to be with my fiancee over anyone else and would never allow myself to cheat etc. I'm alright with avoiding the porn, but it's disturbing to me that I enjoy it so much. I'm extremely open with my fiancee, telling her pretty much anything she wants to know. And thus I feel terrible when I have to tell her about how I was aroused by porn. My fiancee loves me. She says that I'm the love of her life and that it will take years if shes ever to get over me. She does not believe that there is anyone else out there for her. I'm her first serious boyfriend; she's 18 and I'm 23. I believe her when she says that. We've been through so much together, spending most of the last year and a half together. We're rarely apart, having lived together for over a year. I've grown distant from many of my old friends, partly due to college which takes up a lot of my time, being far away, and partly due to my fiancee who takes up most of the rest. She's extremely attached to me, and I've already hurt her a lot by having these doubts about our relationship and by looking at porn. It's just a terrible situation because it seems that there can be no compromise. She feels that she will essentially lose her mind if I find other people "pretty, arousing, or attractive" or decide to look at porn. She says that it will hurt her so much that she'd rather just never see me anymore than to continue a relationship in which I find other people "pretty, arousing, or attractive". I want to be with her, and to make her happy. I've been trying for a long time to make her happy, by forcing myself to do all of these things for her, probably to my detriment. But I feel so trapped right now and I'm not sure what to do. I don't know how I'll ever be alright with never seeing her again. I'd be devastated. And she would too, I've already hurt her a lot. I just don't know what to do. It's hurting me to try to change myself and to constantly censor my thoughts. It takes so much energy that I'm worn out and I don't know how much longer I can do it. I doubt there is anyone else like her. We're both quite unusual and unique in our beliefs and values. I am afraid that I'd never find someone else if we broke up. (We're both vegan, avoid processed foods, disagree with all sorts of common social norms, neither of us does drugs or drinks, we're both atheists/agnostics, etc.) I'd be fine with trying to date someone with different values/beliefs, it's just I'm afraid that there is no one that could ever compare with my fiancee. And I don't know if I'd be able to get over her anyway. Any advice? Thanks in advance.
wilsonx Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I am going to catch a lot of flack for this but you are not being honest to yourself and who you are. Look what happens, you are pretending to be someone you are not and are starting to lose your identity and get depressed. If you are the type of guy that looks at attractive women, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. My ex and I use to compare women and point out the hot ones to each other. Your fiance is extremely young and insecure with herself. This is what guys do, look at women and porn. Any guy on this forum that denies this is a flat out ****ing liar. One of my suggestions to you is to have a talk with her. Tell her this is who you are. I look at girls but I still love you. I look at porn but I still love you. This is what guys do and you should be understanding of this.
Besmy Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Dear endlessrevision, here the opinion of a woman. Personally I do not have a problem with bf looking at other women and finding them attractive as long as this is limited to looking and does not entail comments like openly comparing them to me. Why that? Because 1. I also look at handsome men - nothing wrong with a quick look - and 2. not being as young as your girlfriend, I have plenty of self confidence and know that looking doesn't mean touching / cheating. If you do it too openly and while you are with her though, that's not polite and it's a clear indication that you are not into her. I also do not have any problem with bf watching / reading porn. We know that men are different, but again, a 18 your gf is less experienced and therefore probably less understanding. Would I tell her that I like porn if I was you? NO. Keep it for yourself. She doesn't need to know everything, especially if she won't understand. Also, why do you feel guilty about doing it? I'm not a man and do not watch them, but if you enjoy watching them, what's the problem? You are not hurting anyone, not doing anything illegal, you are just having a good time. There must be a balance between adapting to each other and wanting to change the partner. When we are in a relationship we have to adapt to each other, but I wouldn't want someone who dictated me what to do and how to behave. That would only mean that we are not compatible. You are both very young and I can tell you that you will have other women in your life because we change as we age and our needs and preferences change as well. If you cannot put up with this any longer I suggest you tell her in a polite and civil way and put an end to this story. Good luck!
KathyM Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 My fiancee has extreme issues with me finding any other females "pretty, arousing, or attractive". She'd greatly prefer it if I stopped noticing other girls in general, and has wanted me to work on this. This has made me extremely uptight and paranoid over the past several months. I've been constantly on the lookout for people that I might find "pretty, arousing, or attractive" so that I can prevent any sort of pretty judgement or attraction etc. from occurring. If I look at a girl too long (sometimes she thinks I'm looking when I'm not) she'll ask me questions about it so that she can understand it. She says that it helps her cope to know everything she can about it. If I do get nervous when around another girl, even briefly, she will sometimes question me about it for quite a long time. It makes me feel awful, like I'm being interrogated constantly about insignificant things. She says that she's working on getting over her issues, but that it will likely take years and may never happen. Her issues have damaged my ability to watch movies or browse the internet, for fear that some girl might pop out who's not wearing enough clothing etc. I realize this is likely my own problem, however, Recently I had a sort of mental break, where I realized how depressed, stressed, and unhappy I had become recently due to feeling trapped and controlled. I started to question everything in our relationship and doubted that I even wanted a monogamous relationship at all. After a misunderstanding, I looked at a fair amount of porn on the internet and was horrified to see how much I enjoyed it. (After not looking at it for nearly a year.) It's like the strict banishment of all other females has intensified my reaction to them. And its not that I don't love my fiancee. I love her a great deal, so much that I don't see how I'll be alright without her. My attraction to other girls is merely superficial, I would always prefer to be with my fiancee over anyone else and would never allow myself to cheat etc. I'm alright with avoiding the porn, but it's disturbing to me that I enjoy it so much. I'm extremely open with my fiancee, telling her pretty much anything she wants to know. And thus I feel terrible when I have to tell her about how I was aroused by porn. My fiancee loves me. She says that I'm the love of her life and that it will take years if shes ever to get over me. She does not believe that there is anyone else out there for her. I'm her first serious boyfriend; she's 18 and I'm 23. I believe her when she says that. We've been through so much together, spending most of the last year and a half together. We're rarely apart, having lived together for over a year. I've grown distant from many of my old friends, partly due to college which takes up a lot of my time, being far away, and partly due to my fiancee who takes up most of the rest. She's extremely attached to me, and I've already hurt her a lot by having these doubts about our relationship and by looking at porn. It's just a terrible situation because it seems that there can be no compromise. She feels that she will essentially lose her mind if I find other people "pretty, arousing, or attractive" or decide to look at porn. She says that it will hurt her so much that she'd rather just never see me anymore than to continue a relationship in which I find other people "pretty, arousing, or attractive". I want to be with her, and to make her happy. I've been trying for a long time to make her happy, by forcing myself to do all of these things for her, probably to my detriment. But I feel so trapped right now and I'm not sure what to do. I don't know how I'll ever be alright with never seeing her again. I'd be devastated. And she would too, I've already hurt her a lot. I just don't know what to do. It's hurting me to try to change myself and to constantly censor my thoughts. It takes so much energy that I'm worn out and I don't know how much longer I can do it. I doubt there is anyone else like her. We're both quite unusual and unique in our beliefs and values. I am afraid that I'd never find someone else if we broke up. (We're both vegan, avoid processed foods, disagree with all sorts of common social norms, neither of us does drugs or drinks, we're both atheists/agnostics, etc.) I'd be fine with trying to date someone with different values/beliefs, it's just I'm afraid that there is no one that could ever compare with my fiancee. And I don't know if I'd be able to get over her anyway. Any advice? Thanks in advance. I think you are pretty young to be getting married. If you seriously want to go ahead and get married, you're going to have to control those desires and interests in other women. No one can realistically expect you to not find other women attractive or notice other attractive women you meet or see on the street. You just have to learn to be discreet about it. Don't have lingering looks. And by all means, don't mention to your fiance if you find some other women attractive. The men who are the most happily married have learned that. You don't give your SO the impression that you are looking, or thinking about or admiring other beautiful women, even if it is just for a moment. You give the SO the impression that you only have eyes for her.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Great fodder for PMC. You can learn tools to manage your words and actions in healthier ways while still respecting your base and natural 'style', as well as how to communicate better (and understand when and where to keep your mouth shut). Lastly, reconnect with your male friends and/or make new ones. Don't give up your friendships for a woman, even incidentally.
Author endlessrevision Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks for the advice Besmy, wilsonx, and KathyM. She says that keeping the porn from her would hurt her more than simply looking at it. (Assuming she finds out about it.) We've essentially been keeping nothing from each other in the relationship. We even talk about our conversations with other people, and things of that nature. She often asks what I talked to friends or family about; she likes to know every detail about what I'm doing and thinking. She says that it helps her feel close to me, and to better understand me. She desires a relationship in which we share everything and do nearly everything together. Privacy is another issue which I'm uncertain about because it has been causing problems with my family. Basically, my family wants to continue to have private conversations with me but my fiancee doesn't want me to keep anything from her. My family feels like they've lost some of their connection with me because they feel uncomfortable talking to me when I tell my fiancee nearly everything we talk about. Maybe I really am giving up too much of myself and losing my identity. I agree with what both of you said about porn and other people. I've always felt that finding other people attractive SHOULD NOT have an effect on our relationship. It's just a superficial thing; it doesn't change my feelings for my fiancee. If anything, trying to force myself to change has damaged my feelings for her. It would be all fine and well if I only found my fiancee attractive, but either I wasn't made that way, or no one was made that way. My fiancee believes that being attracted to people is something that is learned through conditioning while growing up and is something that can therefore be overcome. So I've basically been trying, with apparently little success, to overcome my attraction to anyone besides my fiancee. Maybe we are incompatible. It just seems horrifying to think about all that we've been through together and then leaving her forever. It would devastate her. She's already told me that I've hurt her more than anything else in her life by looking at porn yesterday and questioning my desire to remain in the relationship. I feel awful. I don't know how I could end things. She told me yesterday, "You have destroyed everything I thought my life was going to be and everything my life is." Being discreet about finding other people attractive hasn't ever been enough for her. She watches me sometimes, and she's often watching for other women nearby. A second-long glance is sometimes too much, even if I'm not attracted and just looking around. It's enjoyable to watch other people and imagine what their lives might be like. I rarely ever do that anymore, however. If I ever do find someone attractive, pretty or arousing, she wants me to tell her. At first I felt like complete openness and honesty was a good idea, but it just seems to lead to more and more problems. However, she says that it does help and that telling her everything makes her more comfortable. And I have been telling her nearly everything.
Author endlessrevision Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 Great fodder for PMC. You can learn tools to manage your words and actions in healthier ways while still respecting your base and natural 'style', as well as how to communicate better (and understand when and where to keep your mouth shut). Lastly, reconnect with your male friends and/or make new ones. Don't give up your friendships for a woman, even incidentally. Does PMC mean premarital counseling? I hadn't considered that; I'll look into it. I agree about making/keeping friends. That is something that I've been planning to work on. Thanks for the advice.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Yes, pre-marital counseling. Take it from someone who's had MC and weathered a D, go for the PMC. Trust me. Better to work the problems before M than after.
Author endlessrevision Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 And to clarify my earlier post: when I said "It would be all fine and well if I only found my fiancee attractive, but either I wasn't made that way, or no one was made that way.", I mean attractive in the most superficial sense of the word. I'm not attracted to them like I am my fiancee. I only love her. It seems to be more of a subconscious response to certain physical traits, rather than anything related to anything deeper than that. It's like admiring a work of art or something. I certainly don't desire to be with anyone else.
Author endlessrevision Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks for the advice carhill, I'm glad that these issues are being realized and worked on now instead of after we're married.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Guy to guy, is this 'aw, she's cute' attractive or 'wow, that's a buzz in my balls' attractive? I trust you know what I mean. As a disclaimer, I'm a relative outlier in that I have eyes for no other woman, even incidentally, when emotionally attached to a partner. Most men, if my readings on LS from both men and women are any indicator, are more like yourself in this regard. PMC will hopefully help you and your fiance find a common ground to resolve issues such as this. These aren't matters of right and wrong but rather of respecting each other's perspectives and deciding whether your styles are compatible or not. If there's no bend (compromise) from either side, then that. If bend, then that. Time will tell if M is the best path. Hope it works out
KathyM Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Thanks for the advice Besmy, wilsonx, and KathyM. She says that keeping the porn from her would hurt her more than simply looking at it. (Assuming she finds out about it.) We've essentially been keeping nothing from each other in the relationship. We even talk about our conversations with other people, and things of that nature. She often asks what I talked to friends or family about; she likes to know every detail about what I'm doing and thinking. She says that it helps her feel close to me, and to better understand me. She desires a relationship in which we share everything and do nearly everything together. Privacy is another issue which I'm uncertain about because it has been causing problems with my family. Basically, my family wants to continue to have private conversations with me but my fiancee doesn't want me to keep anything from her. My family feels like they've lost some of their connection with me because they feel uncomfortable talking to me when I tell my fiancee nearly everything we talk about. Maybe I really am giving up too much of myself and losing my identity. I agree with what both of you said about porn and other people. I've always felt that finding other people attractive SHOULD NOT have an effect on our relationship. It's just a superficial thing; it doesn't change my feelings for my fiancee. If anything, trying to force myself to change has damaged my feelings for her. It would be all fine and well if I only found my fiancee attractive, but either I wasn't made that way, or no one was made that way. My fiancee believes that being attracted to people is something that is learned through conditioning while growing up and is something that can therefore be overcome. So I've basically been trying, with apparently little success, to overcome my attraction to anyone besides my fiancee. Maybe we are incompatible. It just seems horrifying to think about all that we've been through together and then leaving her forever. It would devastate her. She's already told me that I've hurt her more than anything else in her life by looking at porn yesterday and questioning my desire to remain in the relationship. I feel awful. I don't know how I could end things. She told me yesterday, "You have destroyed everything I thought my life was going to be and everything my life is." Being discreet about finding other people attractive hasn't ever been enough for her. She watches me sometimes, and she's often watching for other women nearby. A second-long glance is sometimes too much, even if I'm not attracted and just looking around. It's enjoyable to watch other people and imagine what their lives might be like. I rarely ever do that anymore, however. If I ever do find someone attractive, pretty or arousing, she wants me to tell her. At first I felt like complete openness and honesty was a good idea, but it just seems to lead to more and more problems. However, she says that it does help and that telling her everything makes her more comfortable. And I have been telling her nearly everything. Your fiance sounds like she's on alert for any sign of interest or appreciation she may detect from you with regard to other women. I think you need to reassure her every time she expresses concern, that you love her alone, that she is the only one you want, and that you think she is the most beautiful woman in the world. Keep reassuring her. And try not to be so noticing of other women. Even if your fiance asks you if you think some girl is attractive, or tries to elicit information from you about your opinion of other women, you would be wise to keep it to yourself. Respond by saying indifferent things when asked, such as "ya, she's kind of attractive", to give her the impression that you hadn't given it much thought. You have a right to your private thoughts. Just don't dwell on thoughts of other women, and don't give her the impression that you do. No matter how much she asks. And while I do believe married and engaged couples shouldn't have secrets from each other, you do not owe your wife a blow by blow of everything that everyone says to you. You have a right to be a little vague and not go into great detail about conversations from your family if you so desire. And I would also cut out the porn if I was you. It makes your fiance doubt your ability to be satisfied with a monogamous relationship with her.
Besmy Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Endlessrevision, sorry but really you should NOT share every thought with your gf. Your family is right. You must preserve some privacy. I also share my thoughts with bf but would I really tell them everything of everything? Certainly no. When you get older you will understand by yourself that certain things are better left unsaid. But what device is she using to track all movements of your eyes and detect the slightest interest in any even remotely attractive lady? Gosh what a nightmare! That would be unbearable to me! When you say: My fiancee believes that being attracted to people is something that is learned through conditioning while growing up and is something that can therefore be overcome. So I've basically been trying, with apparently little success, to overcome my attraction to anyone besides my fiancee. it only shows that she is clueless! We feel attracted to people because we are genetically and biologically programmed to feel attracted to the most suitable candidates for reproduction. There are scientific studies on this subject and the traits that people find attractive in both men and women are all potential signs of health and suitability. Read >> here. We cannot stop doing it. As for: She's already told me that I've hurt her more than anything else in her life by looking at porn yesterday and questioning my desire to remain in the relationship. I am speachless. She is so immature. Again, keep your porn-hobby for yourself. Nothing wrong with that but not all women share my view.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I think the OP has received some good suggestions regarding modifying his behaviors to better meet his fiance's needs. Now, how about some suggestions for healthy boundaries regarding *her* behaviors. This is a key area we worked in MC; specifically the concept of 'bend', where both parties look for a common middle ground and reach for it by 'bending', or proactively changing their own behaviors to create a healthier and more intimate environment for the relationship. If one party does most/all the bending, then 'breaking' is possible/likely, rendering the relationship irreconcilable. That's what happened with us. What's the fiance's healthy 'bend'? What boundaries from the OP can facilitate it? How does he communicate that? For example, telling her she's immature might be completely accurate but is it productive? How is she immature, specifically? What positive suggestions can be made to adapt her behaviors to a more compatible state for their relationship? Anyway, fodder for the future. Past my bedtime BTW, when I finally learned in MC how to effectively communicate boundaries and how I felt in a positive way, that was precisely when my exW called it a day and pressed the D button. Hope your experience is a more positive and successful one.
KathyM Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I think the OP has received some good suggestions regarding modifying his behaviors to better meet his fiance's needs. Now, how about some suggestions for healthy boundaries regarding *her* behaviors. This is a key area we worked in MC; specifically the concept of 'bend', where both parties look for a common middle ground and reach for it by 'bending', or proactively changing their own behaviors to create a healthier and more intimate environment for the relationship. If one party does most/all the bending, then 'breaking' is possible/likely, rendering the relationship irreconcilable. That's what happened with us. What's the fiance's healthy 'bend'? What boundaries from the OP can facilitate it? How does he communicate that? For example, telling her she's immature might be completely accurate but is it productive? How is she immature, specifically? What positive suggestions can be made to adapt her behaviors to a more compatible state for their relationship? Anyway, fodder for the future. Past my bedtime BTW, when I finally learned in MC how to effectively communicate boundaries and how I felt in a positive way, that was precisely when my exW called it a day and pressed the D button. Hope your experience is a more positive and successful one. OK, I'll make some suggestions here on what I consider healthy boundaries in a marriage/engagement: Boundaries he should set for her: 1. Tell her you understand the importance of honesty in a relationship, and sharing your concerns with each other, but that you don't want to be always questioned about what you are thinking all the time, or what everybody else has said to you. 2. Tell her you are a red blooded man and cannot make yourself into something that you are not. As a man, you find women attractive, and that is perfectly normal, and something she has to understand. Assure her that you will never act on that attraction, and will always be faithful to her. She needs to hear those words. Repeatedly. The OP has raised a red flag with her by being very obviously interested/attracted to other women, and his fiance is understandably concerned now that he may not be marriage material if he is continuously having trouble controlling an obvious interest. No woman wants her husband to be ogling other women, or fantacizing about them, or wanting to be with them, or thinking about them continuously. A woman wants to be at the center of attraction when it comes to her husband. She wants to be the one woman he craves and longs for. The one woman his mind is focused on. It's normal to expect that from your husband. It's not normal to expect him to never find another woman attractive ever again. He needs to make a concious effort to stop ogling, stop being on the lookout all the time for pretty women, and refrain from commenting on a woman's attractiveness to his fiance. So controlling his own behavior will help to stop his fiance from being on heightened alert. He should set the boundary with her that he doesn't want to be asked if he finds another woman attractive, and that as a man, he finds women attractive, but he would never do anything to betray her trust. 3. As far as the porn use, he needs to refrain. His fiance is rightfully concerned about his preoccupation with other women. He needs to be concentrating on a life with her as his means of sexual gratification. That's not to say that he will never look at porn again. It can serve a limited purpose in a marriage. Both parties can agree that they may, on occasion, view it on a very limited basis, such as to learn sexual techniques that you would like to try with your spouse, but to view it as a means of sexual gratification, that takes something away from your spouse, who is supposed to be the only one satisfying those needs for you. He should let his fiance know that he is only going to view porn on a limited basis, and only for the purpose of learning new ways to please her, and that she doesn't need to worry that it means something more to him than that. (And then make sure that is the case. Porn can be addictive, it desensitizes a person to the real thing, and should never be used as sexual satisfaction instead of your spouse.) Those are three boundaries he can set: Don't question him all the time about what he is thinking or what someone else has said to him; don't expect him not to find other women attractive, but do expect him to always be faithful and respectful of her feelings by not being obvious in his attraction; don't expect him to give up porn completely, but do expect him to limit it to purposes they can agree is beneficial for their marriage.
ravenna Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 I am endlessrevision’s “fiancee”. I would like to clarify some things: My fiancee has extreme issues with me finding any other females "pretty, arousing, or attractive". She'd greatly prefer it if I stopped noticing other girls in general, and has wanted me to work on this. This has made me extremely uptight and paranoid over the past several months. I've been constantly on the lookout for people that I might find "pretty, arousing, or attractive" so that I can prevent any sort of pretty judgement or attraction etc. from occurring. If I look at a girl too long (sometimes she thinks I'm looking when I'm not) she'll ask me questions about it so that she can understand it. She says that it helps her cope to know everything she can about it. If I do get nervous when around another girl, even briefly, she will sometimes question me about it for quite a long time. It makes me feel awful, like I'm being interrogated constantly about insignificant things. She says that she's working on getting over her issues, but that it will likely take years and may never happen. Her issues have damaged my ability to watch movies or browse the internet, for fear that some girl might pop out who's not wearing enough clothing etc. I realize this is likely my own problem, howeverI have been trying to work through my problem with him finding other people pretty for quite a while (ever since I realized I had it, near the start of our relationship). I never said that it would "likely take years". I did say it could take years, but that I really didn’t know...it could just as possibly take only a few more weeks or days, and I thought it would most likely not take much longer (I didn't want to make a promise that I couldn't definitely keep). I was getting a lot, lot better (even to the point where it hardly bothered me at all when he told me about it, and I didn't even feel the need to ask about a lot of people I might normally have asked about). I only ever asked that he try to not find other people pretty until I could manage to get over it. In addition, I didn't force him to do it, ever; I talked about my issues with him, and he agreed to do it. I didn't threaten to leave if he didn't, etc. I didn't expect him to never "slip up", as he calls it. I didn't expect him to do it for the rest of our lives. It just helped me feel safe enough (not always “on alert”) so that I could work on my problem (I had been trying to work on it without him doing this for quite some time, and had made little to no progress, which is basically the main reason I even asked it of him -to see if it would help me make progress, and it did). I also asked that he tell me when he did end up finding someone pretty. This also helped me get over it because it forced me to get used to the idea of him finding someone pretty and helped me realize it wasn't such a big deal when it happened (something I always knew logically, but was difficult for me emotionally/physically). With him doing both those things, I was able to make much more progress than before. What I mostly was asking for was what KathyM on here just suggested to him, to “ try not to be so noticing of other women” while I was working on getting over it! I'm her first serious boyfriend; she's 18 and I'm 23.I am also his first serious girlfriend. I've grown distant from many of my old friends, partly due to college which takes up a lot of my time, being far away, and partly due to my fiancee who takes up most of the rest. When we started our relationship, I was 16. He came to live with me because we lived in different states (though he visited his hometown (or went on vacation with his family) for around a week about every month (except during our 2 vacations)). Almost immediately after I turned 18, we started living with his father. It is a temporary visit (about 2 months), but mostly because I have a commitment to my mother to take care of her house, father, and animals through mid January, because she will be away for long periods of time. Also, during our time together, we've gone on two very long trips (one was about 5 weeks; the second one, I was gone for 4 weeks but he stayed with his parents for 2 of those weeks then met me on the vacation for the last 2 weeks). Due to the fact that he came to live with me, the fact that we were on vacation together for quite a few weeks, and the fact that he's been trying to complete most of a 4-year degree in about a year - year and a half (through online school), he has not had the chance to be in his hometown a whole lot more than the amount I mentioned previously. Many of his friends are in college/the army/have jobs/moved away, so they also have not been as available as they used to be. She says that it will hurt her so much that she'd rather just never see me anymore than to continue a relationship in which I find other people "pretty, arousing, or attractive". I am fairly certain that I never said that. She says that keeping the porn from her would hurt her more than simply looking at it. (Assuming she finds out about it.) It will hurt more...even if I don't find out about it, because I'll never be able to trust that he's not doing it. Thus, I will always think there's a large possibility that he is... and be hurt by that. And, I'll also be hurt by the fact that he wouldn't trust me enough to tell me about it, etc. We've essentially been keeping nothing from each other in the relationship.This is an ideal we both entered the relationship agreeing on: complete openness and honesty ...sharing everything. It's not something I demanded of him. We agreed not to keep secrets from one another. Our theory was that by doing this, sharing everything (even things that might bother one another), we would be able to know who the other person truly is, and thus realize we weren't right for each other, or accept everything about each other and love each other entirely for who we each are. He's always been able to change his mind and decide to keep things from me if he wants (and he has known that) (just like I’ve been free to change my mind and start keeping things from him, if I wanted to). We even talk about our conversations with other people, and things of that nature. She often asks what I talked to friends or family about; she likes to know every detail about what I'm doing and thinking. She says that it helps her feel close to me, and to better understand me. She desires a relationship in which we share everything and do nearly everything together.I never intended these things to be prying of any sort. It's pretty much always just conversation to me, just like if I asked what he watched on TV, then asked more about the episode/show because it was interesting. Talking to people is just another thing he “did today" so it's another thing I talk about with him. It's not like I specifically require him to tell me everything he ever says to anyone. He does the same thing and asks about my conversations with others, especially ones he finds interesting. Additionally, asking each other what we were thinking is something that we both did at the beginning of our relationship. I can't remember who mentioned it first, but because both of us are such quiet people (don't talk much and sometimes people will wonder what we're thinking/what's going on), we were talking about this and one of us said to "go ahead and just ask me what I'm thinking whenever you want to". So, we ended up doing that and it has become habit (for both of us, though I may have done it more often). This too has simply been like conversation for me. I don’t see it as prying. But, I do think there’s something wrong in the relationship if you feel like you can’t share a thought you had with your SO. I don't think it's wrong to talk about your thoughts or to ask about your partners thoughts. In my ideal relationship, we would trust each other enough to share any thought without it breaking us up or causing problems. If it did cause problems, we would try to work through it, or, if desired, find other people to be with who these problems didn't exist with. We would never feel the need to hide anything from each other because we would know that the other person would always love and accept us and that we could confide in them. That doesn't mean we are required to announce every thought we ever have; But, to me, asking what someone is thinking is not much different from asking "What's wrong?" when he/she seems upset, or "what's so funny?" when he/she is laughing at something that I don't understand. Privacy is another issue which I'm uncertain about because it has been causing problems with my family. Basically, my family wants to continue to have private conversations with me but my fiancee doesn't want me to keep anything from her. I've always said that he could keep things from me, it just wouldn't be my ideal relationship, but I was willing to compromise my ideal for him to be happy if that's what he wanted (at the time, we both shared the ideal of openness and had agreed to be open with each other, but he was always free to tell me he'd changed his mind). My fiancee believes that being attracted to people is something that is learned through conditioning while growing up and is something that can therefore be overcome. No, I believe that being attracted to *certain people* is from having associations (subconscious, etc.), often formed by society or early life experiences. Beauty is incredibly different among different cultures. Some cultures obsess over breasts, while some could care less about breasts but obsess over thighs. Some obsess over thinness; some think more weight is beautiful. Some cultures hate body hair; some cultures find it desirable. Etc. That's not to say that there's nothing else besides associations that contribute to attraction, but I do think subconscious associations play an incredibly large part. Regardless, this isn’t at all the reason why I think it can be “overcome”. I think you can train yourself to no longer notice it (or that it can happen naturally). The reason I think it can be changed by at least some people is that I know of people who have changed it, people who naturally don’t find anyone but their SO pretty (and I know of many more that find only their SO arousing), and I myself am able to do it. That doesn’t mean everyone definitely can, obviously, but I, personally, do think it’s possible everyone could. It doesn’t mean I think everyone should, or even that I think anyone in a relationship should, or anything. It is my ideal for my own relationship (though I am and always have been willing to try to change my ideal (and emotional attachment to it) instead of force him to change that aspect of himself, if he didn’t want to. I just needed time.). She's already told me that I've hurt her more than anything else in her life by looking at porn yesterday and questioning my desire to remain in the relationship...She told me yesterday, "You have destroyed everything I thought my life was going to be and everything my life is."No, he did not “hurt me more than anything else in my life has because of looking at porn and questioning his desire to remain in the relationship". What happened was this: I went away for about a week. The day before and the night I left, he and I were incredibly close and things seemed like they were working well and problems were on their way to being completely solved (we had been having a couple issues for a week or so before I left). Then, the very next day (the 1st day I’m gone), he has a conversation with his family and suddenly thinks he might want to be polyamorous. He doesn't think he wants to leave me, but he thinks he probably wants to see other people at the same time as me. Now, that's not so bad in and of itself. However, it was an incredibly abrupt change from "will you marry me?" It completely changed all my ideas about what my life was going to be like (I had thought we were going to get married and build a life together). It also completely went against everything he'd told me before, such as: "you're exactly what I've always wanted", "I don't want to be with anybody except you", and “you’re perfect”. It was an incredibly painful and shocking thing to have to get used to, so yes it did destroy what I thought my life was and what I thought it was going to be. I said what he quoted me as saying before I knew that he had masturbated to porn. I said it after he made me wait around for days until he decided whether or not he wanted to be polyamorous. I also said it in response to him asking about how I was feeling, or what was wrong, or something of that sort, while I was sobbing on the phone with him. The looking at porn had absolutely nothing to do with that quote. Though that was awful in its own way: mostly because he did it when he had promised not to, which broke my trust. It would have been "ok" if he had told me that he had decided to no longer promise that to me, THEN done it. That wouldn't have broken his promise, and I would've felt safer and more able to trust him. The other reason the porn was shocking/hurtful was that he masturbated to it while I was simultaneously in one of the most horrible states I have ever been in, and he was completely aware of how mentally/emotionally damaged/unstable I was (we were talking online at the same exact time!). Yet, he was able to go masturbate, enjoy it immensely, and not care at all about how messed up I was. I understand it was possibly partly a way for him to distance himself from me/distract himself because he didn't know how to help my pain. But it was still somewhat appalling/disturbing that the girl he supposedly loved with all his heart could be that messed up and hurting, and he'd chose to look at porn and have a grand time masturbating instead of trying to help her or empathize with her. BUT, that's beside the point. My point was, me saying what he quoted had absolutely nothing to do with the porn. It had to do with the fact that he told me that I was everything he wanted and he wanted to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me (and I had been operating with these ideas for many months), then overnight changed his mind and now thought he needed to have romantic relationships with other people at the same time in order to be happy (and that, if I couldn’t be happy with polyamory, that it may be more worth it to him to be polyamorous without me, than monogamous with me). It was a huge, huge, shocking change that disrupted my life and what I thought my life was going to be. We know that men are differentI have heard information/theories indicating that women are actually supposed to be very promiscuous, biologically (so much so as to even have sex with multiple men within hours of each other). And, that, they choose mates by looks just as much as males do. I honestly think many of the perceived differences between men and women, in regard to sexuality, are because of things other than genetics/biology (mostly society, and possibly the way our society is combined with the different rates at which men and women sexually mature, but I won’t go into that, haha, I already feel like I'm talking waaaaay too much). As a women, I am attracted to men. I, personally, have become able to “turn it off”, if I want to do so. My fiance, apparently is not able to do that, at this point, without feeling unhappy. That is fine. It hurts and makes it a lot harder for me to get over my issues, but is fine. I don’t believe that he “can’t do it because he’s a man”, or shouldn’t be expected to “because he’s a man”. I know of men that can and do. If he can’t do it right now, then he can’t do it. I really don’t think it directly has to do with the biology of his gender. And, I don’t think my stance on that has much, if anything, to do with my age. I hope I do not seem argumentative or any such thing. I am not intending to be. I simply wanted to attempt to clarify a few things because I do feel I was misrepresented/misinterpreted, to some degree. I think most of these issues had to do with misunderstandings between my fiance and I, and many of the things that I felt were misrepresentations probably had to do with those misunderstandings as well. I fully understand my fiance’s concerns, respect them, and have already done my best to accommodate them completely (He has decided to find people pretty/attractive/arousing and to never tell me when he does, he’s free to masturbate to porn or fantasies about others, he’s free to hide anything he wants from me, I’ve completely stopped asking what he’s thinking, I’m aware that there are things people tell him that he will not tell me about. etc,. None of that would be a part of my ideal relationship, but I’ve let go of all that as best as I can so that he can be happy. I don’t know if I will be happy in a relationship like that, but I’m trying to be. I care for him greatly, and am trying to do everything I can so that he can feel safe and happy. I hope that, in doing all this, I can be happy too.) “Porn can be addictive, it desensitizes a person to the real thing, and should never be used as sexual satisfaction instead of your spouse.” I agree so much with that, and it will be really hard for me knowing that he values porn enough to keep doing it even though it hurts me greatly. I’ve tried to detach myself from the hurt feelings (not just about the porn, but about all of it), though, and just be there for him and joyfully care for him, regardless.
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