tinydancer_88 Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 So I met this guy (a MM) earlier this year through a classifieds website, but not the dating section. We both answered an ad about a group that was looking for members, and both ended up in the group (believe it or not this is how I met my previous boyfriend too, and we dated for 2 years. Weird, I know. But apparently it happens). The very first time that I talked to him (the MM) on the phone we were talking about our lives, and we got to talking about our relationships- how my BF of two years was a vedge and would never go out and seemed to ignore me, and how his W made his life miserable, etc. Interesting way to start off a friendship. Anyways, we talked for hours (and have done so many times since). So we started seeing more and more of each other, and going out after practices. As soon as the W saw me, she hated me. The little green monster reared its head, and she was suspecting things before either of us had thought about making a move. Long story short we developed feelings for each other. And my 2 year relationship ended, and the MM and I started pursuing a relationship. I hate myself a little bit because this is all happening, and I always thought so little of people who feel the need to cheat on someone. I always thought that it was cut and dry, and if you can't get what you need (emotionally and physically I suppose, when it comes down to it) from the person that you're with, well then you shouldn't be with them. You should just end the relationship. But there's the kids... you know how that goes. So anyways recently they had a big knock-down, drag out fight, involved the cops, etc, and it's supposed to be ending. He's sleeping on the couch, and she tried to kick him out, but someone has to put the kids on the bus etc. BUT she's still uber-possessive of him. So we're still sneaking around. Anyways, I guess I'm posting because I want to hear that there's hope that this situation will resolve without too much heartbreak and bloodshed. Do I have a chance? Because we've both used the "L" word, something that neither of us do lightly. And we have a full-disclosure agreement, so that we're completely honest with each other (I know, it's super naiive to believe this, and I don't know what's going on in his head, but his eyes really seem to tell all. Thing is that we were both sick of all of the bull**** that was occurring in our relationships, so we agreed not to pull any of that crap). So if he's telling the truth like I think he is, we're both in kind of deep, and I don't want this to end, but I also know that I can't keep on with this covert stuff. I guess I'm just looking for a ray of hope. Because other than the fact that he's got a "to have, to hold" contract over his head right now, this is the first man that I have ever been able to see myself spending the rest of my life with. The dumbest thing is that we've already discussed what it's going to be like when he's "free" so-to-speak. Stuff we're going to do with the kids, trips we'll take, etc. And I told him that I could see this working, and he looked at me, and told me completely seriously that he'd already thought of where he would give me a ring, given the chance. Never should have let myself get this close, I suppose, but I honestly have no regrets at this point.
whichwayisup Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 He's not done with his marriage, far from it. He thrives off of the drama and so does his wife. You're making a huge mistake if you hang onto him, in hopes that he'll divorce and be with you one day. That and the fact they have kids, this won't be easy, that is, IF he ever leaves. Why was it not Ok to cheat when you had a boyfriend, but when you and your bf split up, then something happened between you and this MM? Please give that some thought. Anyway, their life is drama filled and I wish I could remember the OW who posted a long time ago about her MM, the drama, the fights, the cops who came to MM and wife's house. I'm sure someone on here will remember and offer up her thread so you can read about her situation and see that you can't go up against what he and his wife have, whatever it is that is holding them together is strong and one would think after having cops involved, they would split up, right?
whichwayisup Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 The dumbest thing is that we've already discussed what it's going to be like when he's "free" so-to-speak. Stuff we're going to do with the kids, trips we'll take, etc. And I told him that I could see this working, and he looked at me, and told me completely seriously that he'd already thought of where he would give me a ring, given the chance. Please, this is a total fantasy bubble.. Life doesn't work this way. you and him are not going to happily ride off into the sunset, with their kids, happy go lucky and the (ex) wife has no issues with you being around her kids, being a step mom to their kids. How can you see it working? It's an affair, based on lies, stolen moments ON the expense of his wife and kids, his family unit. You only know what he tells you, you know he is a liar, a betrayer and a cheater. He is and has been lying to his wife, the woman he said vows to, the woman who gave birth to their kids. Look how he's treating her! Why would he treat you better? think about that! You don't share a life with him, friends, family, in laws, a house, kids, extended family or a history. That's the glue that holds a family together, not just feelings of love, excitement, fun, sex and lust. WHat you both are basing a 'future' on is based on an affair setting behind closed doors. Does your family and friends know you're dating a MM and planning on helping him bust up his family so he can be yours? So you can be step mom to their kids? If no, why not? If yes, how did they react?
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 OP, do you want to hear from someone who's been a OM and MM? Probably not How about a reasonable first boundary? Once he has his own domicile and is living there full-time, then you will be free to date him. Until then, he can utilize his network of friends for support and advice regarding his apparently contentious marriage. IME, when things get to a point where the police are involved, it takes two people actively involved to effect that. Sure, one calls the cops on the other but both are there in the milieu. Both chose to remain there. IMO, that's instructive. I'll bet you're a really calm and balanced person. That's usually how it goes. Like I said, start with a simple boundary. Boundaries separate the wheat from the chaff. Best lesson affairs ever taught me. Good luck
woinlove Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Has he had previous affairs? The fact that he talked negatively about his W the first time you talked, that his W was suspicious the first time she saw you, that they had a knock-down, call the cops fight and are still together - suggests they might have gone through this before.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 That's a good point and a marked data point amongst my experiences. In my case, it was the MW who had multiple concurrent affairs, some PA and some EA. Her H apparently had one long-lived PA. Why I let myself get sucked into that vortex I'll probably never know. Young and stupid, most likely. The drama and 'back together' was a clear signpost that should have been screaming red but I was color blind. I recall her flipping like a light switch on a couple of occasions over the years, totally disappearing without notice or comment, apparently when he 'wanted her back'. If the OP ever comes back, maybe I'll prattle on further
awkward Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I know, it's super naiive to believe this, and I don't know what's going on in his head, but his eyes really seem to tell all. Thing is that we were both sick of all of the bull**** that was occurring in our relationships, so we agreed not to pull any of that crap). So if he's telling the truth like I think he is, we're both in kind of deep, and I don't want this to end, but I also know that I can't keep on with this covert stuff. You won't find your answers in his eyes. Watch his feet for the truth! Would this ring he might give you come with a new "to have, to hold contract"? What has he done to show you that he is telling you the truth? 1
bentnotbroken Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Has he had previous affairs? The fact that he talked negatively about his W the first time you talked, that his W was suspicious the first time she saw you, that they had a knock-down, call the cops fight and are still together - suggests they might have gone through this before. This was my thought exactly. This isn't his first dance with someone outside of his marriage. And a word to the wise, don't think his wife will allow you to be a part of this children's lives with ease. That part of your fantasy needs to be buried.
So Very Confused Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Of course there's a possibility things could work out. There's always a chance. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I've been in your shoes. (minus the cops and meeting the BS) He claimed to be sleeping in the other room. We said the "L" word. We had great chemistry. He was going to buy me a ring. We had talked about what our lives would be like if we were together full-time. We even talked about where we wanted to travel to. Did we meet the same guy? It hasn't worked out well for me. After 8 months of all this, he's still sticking around for the sake of the kids. He's not sure he'll ever leave. (although he was sure in the beginning) We aren't together anymore and the pain is terrible. I wish I'd walked away sooner. Part of the problem is, as long as he has you and his wife, he's unlikely to ever decide to get a divorce. As long as he knows you will be there waiting, what motivation does he have to change? He has two women meeting his needs. That's got to be a great deal for any man. It's a sh*tty deal for both women though. I hope it works out for you. I really do. If I could give you any advice from my experience (other than run), I'd say don't make any decisions based on him. Don't put off anything you want to do while you are waiting on him. Don't risk your career, friendships, family or well being.
MissBee Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 OP, do you want to hear from someone who's been a OM and MM? Probably not How about a reasonable first boundary? Once he has his own domicile and is living there full-time, then you will be free to date him. Until then, he can utilize his network of friends for support and advice regarding his apparently contentious marriage. IME, when things get to a point where the police are involved, it takes two people actively involved to effect that. Sure, one calls the cops on the other but both are there in the milieu. Both chose to remain there. IMO, that's instructive. I'll bet you're a really calm and balanced person. That's usually how it goes. Like I said, start with a simple boundary. Boundaries separate the wheat from the chaff. Best lesson affairs ever taught me. Good luck So very true! Great post!
MissBee Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Of course there's a possibility things could work out. There's always a chance. I don't want to rain on your parade, but I've been in your shoes. (minus the cops and meeting the BS) He claimed to be sleeping in the other room. We said the "L" word. We had great chemistry. He was going to buy me a ring. We had talked about what our lives would be like if we were together full-time. We even talked about where we wanted to travel to. Did we meet the same guy? It hasn't worked out well for me. After 8 months of all this, he's still sticking around for the sake of the kids. He's not sure he'll ever leave. (although he was sure in the beginning) We aren't together anymore and the pain is terrible. I wish I'd walked away sooner. Part of the problem is, as long as he has you and his wife, he's unlikely to ever decide to get a divorce. As long as he knows you will be there waiting, what motivation does he have to change? He has two women meeting his needs. That's got to be a great deal for any man. It's a sh*tty deal for both women though. I hope it works out for you. I really do. If I could give you any advice from my experience (other than run), I'd say don't make any decisions based on him. Don't put off anything you want to do while you are waiting on him. Don't risk your career, friendships, family or well being . Great post! I think many of us have had the experience of living a fantasy. Making all these grand plans and discussions that had little to no actions to back them up. It feels great to plan your lives, to plan this and that and so forth as there is no need for it to materialize immediately. I was watching a Ted Talk about how telling others of your plans makes you less likely to put the work in to accomplish them as the act of discussing it provides a pleasurable release in your brain, as if you've already accomplished it! I can see that making so much sense, especially in affair scenarios. If one "feels stuck" and is "imprisoned" the planning with the AP is bound to be a pleasurable release that doesn't push one to any action. One simply gains pleasure from the fantasy. I agree with car hill about boundaries separating the wheat from the chaff! I think in an A scenario where you want it to become a full relationship or any other complicated relationship scenario, you should test it by setting up boundaries that will allow you to truly see whether or not this person really will put the work in and if this is something meant to work out versus it being a relationship running on fumes of fantasy that lead to inertia.
Tenacity Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 How about a reasonable first boundary? Once he has his own domicile and is living there full-time, then you will be free to date him. I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. My ex-MM had his own "domicile", was living there full-time, but was still married. My story is not pretty. Forget the domicile. The first boundary should be D-I-V-O-R-C-E. With the ink faded on the papers.
chalkfarm Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 Get out! Get out! Get out! Read my story and you will get the idea. You will get hurt and you will NOT heal easily.
carhill Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. My ex-MM had his own "domicile", was living there full-time, but was still married. My story is not pretty. Forget the domicile. The first boundary should be D-I-V-O-R-C-E. With the ink faded on the papers. Of course divorce, legally and verified, is ideal, but the OP would never agree to such an extreme measure, hence, as I suggested, a 'reasonable first boundary'. If the OP wants to go black hole NC until the MM has been legally divorced for at least a year (my idea of reasonable health), she's got my total support. OP? What say you?
Woman In Blue Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 But there's the kids... you know how that goes. Yup. There's not a married man on earth with kids who doesn't use that excuse. So anyways recently they had a big knock-down, drag out fight, involved the cops, etc, and it's supposed to be ending. He's sleeping on the couch, and she tried to kick him out, but someone has to put the kids on the bus etc. What a prize you'll be getting! An idiot who gets physical with his wife - in front of those precious, precious kids he just can't leave - and the cops get called. Sounds like a bunch of hillbillies fueding. Charming. BUT she's still uber-possessive of him. So we're still sneaking around. But I thought he was only staying for those children? I don't want this to end, but I also know that I can't keep on with this covert stuff. You're going to be acting covertly for a long, long time. Unless she throws his ass out - then you'll win him by default! I guess I'm just looking for a ray of hope. Because other than the fact that he's got a "to have, to hold" contract over his head right now, this is the first man that I have ever been able to see myself spending the rest of my life with. You want a man that lies, cheats, aned acts like a savage when he fights with his wife? Seriously? Why? You don't think you can do any better? The dumbest thing is that we've already discussed what it's going to be like when he's "free" so-to-speak. Stuff we're going to do with the kids, trips we'll take, etc. And I told him that I could see this working, and he looked at me, and told me completely seriously that he'd already thought of where he would give me a ring, given the chance. Fantasyland crap. Let there be a D-Day and watch how quickly he changes his tune. Never should have let myself get this close, I suppose, but I honestly have no regrets at this point. Not to worry. You will.
fooled once Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree with this. My ex-MM had his own "domicile", was living there full-time, but was still married. My story is not pretty. Forget the domicile. The first boundary should be D-I-V-O-R-C-E. With the ink faded on the papers. I agree. And throw in some counseling for the cheater so he can uncover why it was okay to lie, gaslight, sneak around and betray his spouse instead of honest conversations about separation/divorce. 1
Author tinydancer_88 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Posted March 27, 2012 Well, in a shocking turn of events, he is moved out, the divorce is in the final stages (working out the settlement) and we are actually falling into life as a normal couple pretty well. Thank goodness we only have the normal things to worry about now, like him putting the seat down, hahaha. Feeling a little bit like I beat the odds, and i suppose only time can tell at this point, but I am happy =]
whichwayisup Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 All I hope for is ALL OF YOU put the kids first. And, you need to respect that his ex will always be a part of your lives, SHE is the kids mother, don't try to take her place, or belittle her or bad mouth her to their children. I hope too, there's family counselling happening for them to adjust to all the changes. He's living with you so soon, and it's not going to be easy on them. 1
sad puppy Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Congrats, remember to put the kids first, and take it slow as you begin what is essentially a new relationship. Thanks for the update and good luck!
carrie999 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I find it interesting that so many people here give the same advice OVER and OVER based upon their own experience, whether they were involved in an affair that went south or they were the BS. To me, the warning sign here is very simple: their fights result in police intervention! That's basically all you need to know to see that this can't possibly lead to something healthy.
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