Women are the reason relationships fail!

[AHardDaysNight]

It's for reasons like this that I think guys need to have classes to learn self esteem. They don't teach guys how to be guys in school, it's all "gender neutral."

 

I think a lot of progress has been made, but there is still a LOT of progress still left to do. It's impossible to argue otherwise, when there are so many angry young men, who are starved for a woman's affection.

[EricaH329]

Women and men should be held to the same standards.

 

Really? That's your argument? Ah, then in that case, women should be able to sleep with the same amount of men that men do women, and not be considered less 'acceptable'. We should also be able to be as 'visual' as men, and not get harassed for it. We should be able to go straight up to a guy, ask him on a date, and not be deemed aggressive and/or intimidating.

 

The list really could go on and on. Unfortunately, that's not how society works. If that is how you would like it work, then find a girl that is able to be all of those things that you wish for, without being turned off by her. Good luck!

[ScreamingTrees]

Insightful Post

 

I understand you now. Eh, I guess I'm just screwed, other guys have probably got it figured out, it's cool I guess, I have hobbies to keep my mind off of this stuff. It just bothers me a bit to know that any girl who might like me may feel rejected, I don't want to hurt anyone.

[verhrzn]

I understand you now. Eh, I guess I'm just screwed, other guys have probably got it figured out, it's cool I guess, I have hobbies to keep my mind off of this stuff. It just bothers me a bit to know that any girl who might like me may feel rejected, I don't want to hurt anyone.

 

So learn to read the signs. Pay very strict attention to body language. Or, just continue hitting on girls who you find interesting. It's not a bad strategy, because eventually you'll hit on a girl who is also interested, it just means you're missing the ones who didn't interest you all that much who WERE interested in you.

 

Women do not actually want a man, they want men to want them.

How in the world can you even make that distinction? Of COURSE women want a man a man who wants them, but if they just wanted anyone who showed interest in them, there wouldn't be forums full of guys complaining about how no girls they like show interest... Women would be jumping into the arms of the first guy who hit on her!

 

Women both want a man, and want to be wanted. Why in the world is that a bad or somehow evil thing in your universe?

[somedude81]

Really? That's your argument? Ah, then in that case, women should be able to sleep with the same amount of men that men do women, and not be considered less 'acceptable'. We should also be able to be as 'visual' as men, and not get harassed for it. We should be able to go straight up to a guy, ask him on a date, and not be deemed aggressive and/or intimidating.

LOL!

 

The average woman has a much higher number of sexual partners than the average man does. The number of woman whores is much larger than man whores.

 

Women are as visual as men, and they don't get harassed for it at all. A man says he likes women with big boobs, and all the women around him will give him mean looks. A woman says she likes tall men and nobody even notices.

 

What makes somebody aggressive and/or intimidating is how they asked the other person out. Gender has nothing to do with it.

 

Here is a thread for you to read over.

[ScreamingTrees]

It's for reasons like this that I think guys need to have classes to learn self esteem. They don't teach guys how to be guys in school, it's all "gender neutral."

 

I think a lot of progress has been made, but there is still a LOT of progress still left to do. It's impossible to argue otherwise, when there are so many angry young men, who are starved for a woman's affection.

 

Well, if you're talking about me, I don't lack self esteem, I honestly feel that I've got plenty of worth and I wouldn't have wanted to be born into this world with any other body or mind. Seems I just can't read body language when it comes to flirting.

 

I'd met ONE girl in my short life that was really into me, and while I found her both physically and mentally attractive I blew it because I liked her as a friend and didn't want to hurt her. If I was really desperate and slimy, I could've just had sex with her and likely ruined the friendship, but I didn't. By the time I really talked to her about it, like 8 months later, she wasn't sure what she wanted. We're still friends, she's just away.

[Woggle]

Likewise women are only intrested if the man puts forth all the effort.

 

Women do not actually want a man, they want men to want them.

 

Very true. Why do you think that married men and players are so desired? It's because they are a challenge and when a woman gets one of these men to desire them she feels like she won. Not all women are like this of course but you see it enough to notice a pattern.

 

If you look at who initiates most divorces and how some though certainly not all women can just tear apart a 20 year marriage as if it never meant anything to them you do have a point.

[EricaH329]

Why would a woman actually want to sleep around?

 

Why wouldn't she? Women have high sexual drives, too. It's not only men that feel the need to have sex.

 

Women don't usually see men as physically attractive.

 

Huh???

 

LOL!

 

The average woman has a much higher number of sexual partners than the average man does. The number of woman whores is much larger than man whores.

 

Where in the world did you come to this conclusion??? The majority of men I have known in my lifetime, granted it hasn't been a long one, have slept with more women than I have men.

 

Women are as visual as men, and they don't get harassed for it at all. A man says he likes women with big boobs, and all the women around him will give him mean looks. A woman says she likes tall men and nobody even notices.

 

Tall men and big boobs are completely different in the context of being visual. Big boobs are meant for sexual reasons, whereas height is not. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself as clear as I should have. When I said 'visual' I meant it in a sexual way. Not in terms of hair color, height, skin tone, etc. If I had meant it in the way that you understood it, then of course everyone is visual in that aspect.

 

What makes somebody aggressive and/or intimidating is how they asked the other person out. Gender has nothing to do with it.

 

Sooooo not true! I could go up to a guy, and ask him out on a date (plain and simple), and he could very well consider me to be too 'aggressive' for him (because I had the nerve to approach him, which is out of the 'norm'). Whereas, if a guy were to ask a girl on a date, she wouldn't consider him too 'aggressive'.

[Shaun-Dro]

 

I'd like you to personally explain how women put themselves out there at the same magnitude as men? And please don't use the "throwing signals" card either, because standing around and flipping your hair or rearranging your blouse doesn't qualify as pursuing a man, aka, take a risk.

[verhrzn]

I'd like you to personally explain how women put themselves out there at the same magnitude as men? And please don't use the "throwing signals" card either, because standing around and flipping your hair or rearranging your blouse doesn't qualify as pursuing a man, aka, take a risk.

 

Go back a few pages and read my post, where I explain exactly what you're asking about.

[Shaun-Dro]

Go back a few pages and read my post, where I explain exactly what you're asking about.

 

I've read it and fully understood. And I admit, you make great points, but I don't agree with all of them.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not looking for women to start approaching me. I can take care of that myself. It's not a issue with me since I've been long brought up to be a man and take charge.

 

My issue is with women not putting in any real effort to keep relationships alive the way she once did, a lifetime ago.

 

With all the silly cell phones and "Girls' Night Out" she's been putting men and relationships on the back-burner. Her interest level in men has vastly declined over this past decade in part to media pressure of going bisexual, or becoming an all out lesbian. This is further social punishment to men as there are many others.

 

This correlation puts the number of available, healthy women on the great decline, whether you realize this or not.

 

Perhaps things are a little different in other parts of the world, but looking in from the view of NYC, it's terrible here and women are not dateable nor very approachable unless she's seriously plied with liquor in a honkytonk someplace.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Shaun-Dro
missed a word

[verhrzn]

My issue is with women not putting in any real effort to keep relationships alive the way she once did, a lifetime ago.

 

With all the silly cell phones and "Girls' Night Out" she's been putting men and relationships on the back-burner. Her interest level in men has vastly declined over this past decade in part to media pressure of going bisexual, or becoming an all out lesbian. This is further social punishment to men as there are many others.

 

.... You think greater numbers of women are turning bisexual or gay... to punish men....

 

Are you, sir, insane?

 

Where shall we even begin? The idea that homosexuality is a choice? That someone will sleep with a member of the same sex for revenge on the opposite sex? (As if the opposite sex is somehow keeping a tallying board and calling out like the stock market," Oops, there goes another one!"

 

Or the fact that there have been absolutely NO confirmations that the number of lesbians have increased? Where in the frozen pit of Hades do you get this information??

 

As far as women putting relationships on the back burner... They're only doing what men have done for hundreds, possibly thousands, of years. Women now have the ability to be economically independent, and don't REQUIRE a man... Meaning they're only gonna date when they darn well feel like it.

 

And why turn around and blame the women? Maybe it's men who are actually at fault, cause hey, why don't we turn this thread into yet another men vs. women show case... After all, if relationships are so important to men, then why haven't they stepped up their game? Why are men so impotent that they can't rise to the occasion and give an independent woman what she needs?

 

... Is this really satisfying to you, this Blame Women game? Because every sexist remark you make can be thrown right back. And what does it solve? Nothing.

[Woggle]

I've read it and fully understood. And I admit, you make great points, but I don't agree with all of them.

 

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not looking for women to start approaching me. I can take care of that myself. It's not a issue with me since I've been long brought up to be a man and take charge.

 

My issue is with women not putting in any real effort to keep relationships alive the way she once did, a lifetime ago.

 

With all the silly cell phones and "Girls' Night Out" she's been putting men and relationships on the back-burner. Her interest level in men has vastly declined over this past decade in part to media pressure of going bisexual, or becoming an all out lesbian. This is further social punishment to men as there are many others.

 

This correlation puts the number of available, healthy women on the great decline, whether you realize this or not.

 

Perhaps things are a little different in other parts of the world, but looking in from the view of NYC, it's terrible here and women are not dateable nor very approachable unless she's seriously plied with liquor in a honkytonk someplace.

 

I don't agree with the gay thing but I do agree that there are many women out there who have shown they pretty are incapable of doing what it takes to have a healthy relationship. They want men to put in all this effort for so little return.

[sm1tten]

Entitlement, selfishness, and rampant *******ry are not gender-specific.

 

There seems to be a huge disconnect between what men think they are doing that is "effort," what women think they are doing that is "effort," and what each side thinks of what the other side is doing. I've noticed that the people who are actually in healthy, successful relationships often don't have the same viewpoints on how relationships should and could work as those who aren't. I wonder why that is?

[dizy]

where is the lesbi club? i want to join. thanks to this post I just realize a wonderful way to punish men =)

[Shaun-Dro]

.... You think greater numbers of women are turning bisexual or gay... to punish men....

 

Are you, sir, insane?

 

Where shall we even begin? The idea that homosexuality is a choice? That someone will sleep with a member of the same sex for revenge on the opposite sex? (As if the opposite sex is somehow keeping a tallying board and calling out like the stock market," Oops, there goes another one!"

 

Or the fact that there have been absolutely NO confirmations that the number of lesbians have increased? Where in the frozen pit of Hades do you get this information??

 

Women turning bi is a choice. I don't care if you believe that or not but it is, period.

 

Case in point: my own cousin turned bisexual because she claimed she couldn't, for the life of her, find a good man to meet her emotional needs. So, in turn, she sleeps with other women for that fulfillment and then goes back to the man whenever she's horny for dick. Understand now?

 

The media is pushing this nonsense on the people and with women feeling like men won't meet their emotional needs because she plays games all day, refusing to be direct with what she wants, she'll turn to the same sex to fulfill that pleasure so they both can play games with each other.

 

But of course, she'll always run back to men after she experiences enough same-sex drama to last her a good while.

 

I'm not including straight-up lesbians. I'm talking about this bi-silliness that really just means, in my book, sexually confused.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cocaine: "You are not putting yourself out there by only giving signals and hints, putting yourself out there would be to actually take an initiative."

 

I described more ways I have been rejected then just this way. You've choosen to focus on this to not approach the fact that women get rejected too. I've given men my number that never called. I've gone out on first dates that I never heard from again or was told they weren't interested.

 

 

Getting rejected when asking somebody out means the woman openly says to you something like "I do not like you", and other can see it. It's also possible that others will see it, like her friends or your own friends and that makes it 10x worse.

 

So when a man tells me he isn't interested in seeing me again, that's not rejection? Or when I give a man my number and he doesn't call, that's also not rejection?

 

 

Women and men should be held to the same standards. Rejection should mean the same thing.

 

Men and women aren't always the same. We are equal but we also showcase different strength and weaknesses. And I think you know this. And thank you God for that because it keeps things interesting. I love the ways men are different from me. How they tackle issues or watching them bond with their friends as they tease each other.

 

A few weeks ago we had some heavy flooding and rain here on the East Coast. Without the help of a couple wonderful male neighbors, I never would have been able to make it out of the situation without severe water damange to my basement. They came in and helpped me set up a pump and generator that was giving me problems. Turns out my sump pump was broken! Don't you know that one of them figured that out and brought me a pump to borrow! I would have had no clue what to do. But watching them figure out the issue in a problem solving way I just don't have was really cool. Men approach problems differently and solve them differently. Just as women do. And men and women CAN experience rejection differently. We can also experience it in many more ways then just one, the one where someone asks someone out and gets rejected.

 

 

That's because only men care about relationships and dating. Women are indifferent to it. Men like women more than vice versa.

 

Most women don't care at all about finding a man. But to most men it's a high priority in life to find a woman.

 

I'm sorry but I already expressed that I was very interested in a relationship and care very much about dating and you decided to ignore it in the face of your own pain. Having hurtful experiences with women and being sensitive to that is one thing. Letting your hurtful experiences undermine who women are and their ability to have experience that are both positive and negative just like yours and other men is another. You're not even trying to see women as people because your so lost in your own pain. And if you keep with that, you are never going to find a way to connect to women.

 

Cocaine, how old are you by the way?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

And without a single word about my response to him.... You guys here on LS really are just determined to paint women as the enemy, women as the evil manipulators who love "rejecting and humiliating" men, regardless of how much evidence DY and I put in front of you.

 

Agree!

 

Too many of you are focusing on the rejection a woman can feel for a man that doesn’t ask her out..passes her up. Regardless whether you agree that this is a form of rejection or not, women get rejected in many other ways too. Some which I also brought up! The point is women don’t live in some crystal room where she isn’t ever hurt and doesn't experience pain. The secret to a healthy relatoinship with a member of the opposite sex (or same sex) is to actually like the gender you desire to be intimate with. Denying that women don't experience life like a man or vice versa isn't going to showcase that.

[Wolf18]

Women do have more sexual partners and lose their virginity earlier nowadays. This is a sociological fact.

 

As much as women want to say it's different, yes, men who are fixated with big boobs are the same thing as women who are fixated with tall men. Boobs are not "sexual" by the way, they are for feeding babies, and the same bogus evolutionary psychology women publish in their magazines justifying their tall guy fetish can easily be used to explain why men like big boobs (which is not as crazy as you'd think, by the way). To pretend that it's different, Erica H, is an absurd hypocrisy. You are just as shallow/"visual" as the Lifetime channel's stereotype of men.

 

To repeat what other men said, I don't want to put women down, just for them to be held accountable on an equal level to us. You have what Oprah claims are historical patriarchal privileges of wanting to date someone for their looks or ending a 15 year marriage because you're kind of bored, but you want to maintain your privelege as the "fairer sex" . Either choose one or the other, unfortunately women get the best of both worlds in the west.

[Wolf18]

LOL your definition of rejection is a joke.

 

You know how many women i pass every day that roll their eyes at me or look away when I try to make friendly eye contact? Men don't.

 

I must get rejected 100's of times a day .

[rafallus]

There is huge problem with defining rejection as "not approaching".

 

How in the world am I supposed to know, who I am rejecting and who not?

 

Because otherwise you get into absurd situation:

 

There are 30 women in the room and me (let's assume no other guys). I approached none of them.

 

Then what? I rejected ALL of them, just most didn't care and a few select did?

 

If so, then what if I wasn't even able to see some of them? Am I a cold hearted, rejection spewing, male-bitch then? What, if some of them were talking with each other, and could do without my presence? How is it possible to reject them?

 

And if not, how am I supposed to know who I rejected? How can I even reject somebody, not knowing who it is?

 

Per analogy, can you reject a job application that hasn't been submitted to you?

Edited September 14, 2011 by rafallus

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yes, women DO have more sexual partners and lose their virginity earlier nowadays. But so do men.

 

Further Wolf, what do mediums like Maxim, Playboy and the likes of that tell men about women? That women should be liked for their good hearts?

 

Again, if you don't want to consider not approaching as a form of rejection, fine. You can. But you are still ignoring the other ways I said I've been rejected in the dating world. I think that a good chunk of the guys here that want to focus on the big "not approaching" debate are doing it to side step the other ways I expressed I was rejected in dating. And it's beyond ridiculous. You don't consider women people who go through the same "pain" you are going through. And that is why you can't relate to women. You don't see women as human beings with a wide range of life experiences, both good and bad. Keep on ignoring the other ways I said I was rejected because of your desire to see women as these inhuman "things" that don't experience the realities of life like *you* as a man does.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

As I understand it "Disenchantedly Yours" thinks the defenition of rejection should be different for men and women.

 

So no that would not count as rejection because you are a man.

 

If you where a woman, then yes that would count as rejection.

 

Actually, I never dictated what terms would be a rejection for a man. I'm not a man and it wouldn't be fair for me to say "this is rejection" and "this isn't". Because men sometimes experience things differently then me. I love and celebrate the differences between men and women.

 

I even said that if you don't agree with someone feeling rejected by someone not approaching them, then you can take in account the other ways I was rejected that go beyond that. But you want to ignore that part of message.

 

What's up with putting my name in qoutes too? Seems like it's done with mockery. Which once again points to not seeing women as people, as human beings, just like yourself.

 

Keep denying that women don't experience ups and downs in dating. But by doing so, you're only hurting yourself. Because your the only one holding back your ability to see women and understand them on a level that goes behond your own pain.

[EricaH329]

Further Wolf, what do mediums like Maxim, Playboy and the likes of that tell men about women? That women should be liked for their good hearts?

 

It's for their 'baby making parts' :laugh:

 

Keep denying that women don't experience ups and downs in dating. But by doing so, you're only hurting yourself. Because your the only one holding back your ability to see women and understand them on a level that goes behond your own pain.

 

And this is what is basically comes down to. You and I (as well as many others here) will not have this problem with dating. It seems like a cheap way to cop out of owning up to what someone could possibly be doing wrong themselves. That (cocaine) is the cowards way out. Shifting blame always seems like the easiest thing to do, but really, it doesn't hurt anyone except themselves.

[AHardDaysNight]

I think more women lose their virginity earlier than men, because 80% are sleeping with the top 20% of men.

 

You can't say that 80% of men are sleeping with the top 20% of women. Just is inaccurate.

 

That being said, I do believe that women want a good man...but they judge a good man on harsher and more shallow terms than a man judges a good woman.