Women are the reason relationships fail!

[serial muse]

PJKino, you've said in the past that you would rather not date at all than date people you aren't attracted to. Does that mean you'll only date hotties??

 

Careful how you answer.

 

"Yes, only universally considered hotties" --> thereby limiting your dating pool severely, but that's your choice

"Yes, but they just have to be hotties to me - other people can consider them average, ugly, whatever, and I won't care" --> well then. You and Disenchantedly Yours ARE IN AGREEMENT.

 

See, you're playing a semantic game here and taking out your insecurity about your looks on someone who is basically trying to reassure you. Way to piss people off for no good reason other than you're angry.

 

1. Disenchantedly Yours was simply saying that she finds guys attractive - "hotties" - that aren't considered stereotypically attractive.

2. You interpret that to mean that she's insulting them, when in fact she's doing the opposite.

Edited September 13, 2011 by serial muse

[PJKino]

PJKino, you've said in the past that you would rather not date at all than date people you aren't attracted to. Does that mean you'll only date hotties??

 

Careful how you answer.

 

"Yes, only universally considered hotties" --> thereby limiting your dating pool severely, but that's your choice

"Yes, but they just have to be hotties to me - other people can consider them average, ugly, whatever, and I won't care" --> well then. You and Disenchantedly Yours ARE IN AGREEMENT.

 

 

I by no means only hold out for "hotties" but i at least have to find the girl somewhat cute

 

AS far as dischentaned commetns they may have not meant to be hurtful but lets put it this way wouldnt it sound a little insensitive if i posted "even fat girls or girls with small breasts have rejected me"

[dasein]

A number of men here don't see women as people with experiences both good and bad.

 

Translation using Female to English decoder ring: "A number of men here don't kiss women's asses and agree with everything they say merely because they have a vagina."

[AHardDaysNight]

Translation using Female to English decoder ring: "A number of men here don't kiss women's asses and agree with everything they say merely because they have a vagina."

 

Ugh!

[LurkerXX]

Wow-I took it to mean that imperfect men still had the guts to decide whether or not they fit with her, and have rejected her, and her the same. No average person is immune to rejection, nor should they drag things out with someone who is not right for them because they are fearful. We all go through it, even if the overall processing may show some average differences between genders.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

lol show me a thread where i treat women like people? wtf does that even mean:laugh:

 

Okay then, lets use your words. Show me a thread where you talk about women's plight as oppossed to a woman's.

 

Here are some threads I chimed in that I think fit what you're looking for:

 

Found out the guy I’m dating is a felon...Axe it???

 

What about ugly people?

 

Any turn off can be fixed with confidence. True or false?

 

Question for Women - Making the move

 

Hurt her emotionally, she’s put up a wall

 

Lying about age, is it always bad?

 

How To Get Over The Rejection..Can’t Let Go

 

Now it's your turn.

 

On forums people post their problems and vent,they dont post about other people or others genders problems

 

Really, who cares what other people do.

Futher, just because people post their own problems and vent doesn't mean both men and women can't try to understand each other better.

[somedude81]

But for women, not getting hit on or approached is our most usual form of rejection, and it happens all the time.

I'm sorry, but there is simply no comparison between a guy getting rejected by a girl who says no to him, and a girl not getting hit on.

 

A guy walks into a bar and hits on a couple of girls, is every girl he didn't hit on going to feel rejected?

 

In that case, he should hit on every single woman in the bar, including you, would that make you feel better?

 

There are certain things that are necessary for a rejection

 

1. The other person must know you are interested. I doubt you are interested in every single man you see, so them not talking to you is not a rejection.

 

2. Some effort must be made to get the person. Telling a guy, "I think you're hot" fulfills #1 but it does not count as a real effort.

 

Look at things from a man's point of view. If I'm in a dance club and there are three girls, I ask one to dance. All I did was ask one to dance, I didn't reject the other two. Now if a girl makes me aware that she wanted to dance with me and I said sorry, that is a rejection.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I by no means only hold out for "hotties" but i at least have to find the girl somewhat cute

 

AS far as dischentaned commetns they may have not meant to be hurtful but lets put it this way wouldnt it sound a little insensitive if i posted "even fat girls or girls with small breasts have rejected me"

 

Oh I see..so it's okay for you to say that you don't hold out for "hottie" but I'm not allowed to say the bascially the same thing? How do you think your prior girlfriend would feel knowing thatoyu didn't hold out for girls hotter then them?

 

I actually did use "over-weight" men in the beginning of this post. The one you got intially pissed off at. And that is what I use most of the time to describe women and men. Infact, one of the best lovers I ever had was an over-weight man. But again, you focus on "your pain". It's "all about you". And you seem to understand that my comments where not meant to be hurtful yet this is what you choose to focus on. You have yet to make any kind of sincere comment about what the general idea of my post was. Which was that women get rejected too. And that they get rejected by a variety of men. Not just the guys men would deem stereotypically hot.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

1. Disenchantedly Yours was simply saying that she finds guys attractive - "hotties" - that aren't considered stereotypically attractive.

2. You interpret that to mean that she's insulting them, when in fact she's doing the opposite.

 

Exactly Serial Muse!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Wow-I took it to mean that imperfect men still had the guts to decide whether or not they fit with her, and have rejected her, and her the same. No average person is immune to rejection, nor should they drag things out with someone who is not right for them because they are fearful. We all go through it, even if the overall processing may show some average differences between genders.

 

Another spot on comment about what I was trying to get across. Thank you Lurker.

[verhrzn]

I'm sorry, but there is simply no comparison between a guy getting rejected by a girl who says no to him, and a girl not getting hit on.

 

A guy walks into a bar and hits on a couple of girls, is every girl he didn't hit on going to feel rejected?

 

In that case, he should hit on every single woman in the bar, including you, would that make you feel better?

 

There are certain things that are necessary for a rejection

 

1. The other person must know you are interested. I doubt you are interested in every single man you see, so them not talking to you is not a rejection.

 

2. Some effort must be made to get the person. Telling a guy, "I think you're hot" fulfills #1 but it does not count as a real effort.

 

Look at things from a man's point of view. If I'm in a dance club and there are three girls, I ask one to dance. All I did was ask one to dance, I didn't reject the other two. Now if a girl makes me aware that she wanted to dance with me and I said sorry, that is a rejection.

 

This is exactly what DY is talking about... Women don't think in the same way men do, and it's not fair to tell a woman when she's allowed to feel rejected.

 

If you go into a bar and hit on 3 girls, obviously THOSE girls aren't going to feel rejected. But perhaps the girl in the corner, who was trying to make eye contact with you, or smile at you, and whom you choose (for whatever reason) not to hit on probably will. Why? Because she WAS hitting on you, just in the socially-conditioned female way.

 

Not getting hit on IS a form of rejection... It's saying the guy isn't impressed enough with your physical attractiveness to approach you, since men have a certain level of social permission to approach a woman. (Whereas a woman is playing with/challenging the social script by approaching.)

 

Again, telling a woman that she "doesn't know what rejection is" until she experiences it like a man is narrow-minded and denies women their own unique experience. Women, just like men, are trying to work within social norms and rules, and rejection, even subtle rejection (which is how women are taught to operate from a young age... demure, passive, and subtle) can hurt just as much as outright rejection.

[somedude81]

If you go into a bar and hit on 3 girls, obviously THOSE girls aren't going to feel rejected. But perhaps the girl in the corner, who was trying to make eye contact with you, or smile at you, and whom you choose (for whatever reason) not to hit on probably will. Why? Because she WAS hitting on you, just in the socially-conditioned female way.

Trying to make eye contact and smile is just way too subtle. Girls often do that to me as I walk by them, are they all hitting on me?

 

Also when a girl is trying to make eye contact and giving subtle hints, what is she risking? How much effort even goes into that?

 

Not getting hit on IS a form of rejection... It's saying the guy isn't impressed enough with your physical attractiveness to approach you, since men have a certain level of social permission to approach a woman. (Whereas a woman is playing with/challenging the social script by approaching.)

I completely disagree.

 

A man hits on the women he likes the most. Just because he doesn't hit on the other women, doesn't mean he is rejecting them. Heck if they actually approached him, I'm sure he would love to talk to them. But it takes time and energy to approach women. It's just not feasible to hit on everybody. And even then women won't appreicate just being one of the many.

 

Again, telling a woman that she "doesn't know what rejection is" until she experiences it like a man is narrow-minded and denies women their own unique experience. Women, just like men, are trying to work within social norms and rules, and rejection, even subtle rejection (which is how women are taught to operate from a young age... demure, passive, and subtle) can hurt just as much as outright rejection.

Sure women have their own unique experience but it they are not as impactful as a mans.

 

Do you really think; woman tries to give signals to a man, he notices but doesn't walk over, is on the same level as; man asking a woman out and she tells him no.

 

The biggest difference is the level of risk.

[BWLoca]

A few times, I've had guys walk up to me and ask me about my hot friend. I would consider that a form of rejection.

[somedude81]

A few times, I've had guys walk up to me and ask me about my hot friend. I would consider that a form of rejection.

Yeah, I'll take that as a rejection. No man would like that either.

[verhrzn]

Trying to make eye contact and smile is just way too subtle. Girls often do that to me as I walk by them, are they all hitting on me?

 

Also when a girl is trying to make eye contact and giving subtle hints, what is she risking? How much effort even goes into that?

 

 

I completely disagree.

 

A man hits on the women he likes the most. Just because he doesn't hit on the other women, doesn't mean he is rejecting them. Heck if they actually approached him, I'm sure he would love to talk to them. But it takes time and energy to approach women. It's just not feasible to hit on everybody. And even then women won't appreicate just being one of the many.

 

 

Sure women have their own unique experience but it they are not as impactful as a mans.

 

Do you really think; woman tries to give signals to a man, he notices but doesn't walk over, is on the same level as; man asking a woman out and she tells him no.

 

The biggest difference is the level of risk.

 

Again, until you've extensively studied what it's like to be female (we're talking sociology/anthropology studies, not just "unofficial poll of some girls I know") you CAN'T say "Oh that's easy, what effort is there?"

 

Just like boys are taught certain behaviors are masculine, and that to be a "man" they have to act a certain way, so are little girls taught from a young age that certain behavior is "feminine." Girls are taught to be "nice"... aka, passive, modest, demure, etc.

 

You may not consider it a big deal, but making eye contact, especially extensive eye contact, is actually a big effort for women. (Prolonged eye contact is actually a very aggressive form of nonverbal communication.) The subtle hints that women give out are attempts to show interest WITHOUT straying outside the lines of what's considered "feminine behavior."

 

It may not be a big deal to YOU, but you also weren't raised as a girl. You're judging women by men's social standards.

 

You say that a guy not hitting on a girl isn't rejection because he's just hitting on the girl he likes the most. But socially conditioned women* don't have that distinction... it's why you see women who get very jealous of porn or a man's best female friend. They can't compartmentalize "the most." Affection with women can be all or nothing. It's kind of, "If he doesn't like me THE MOST, he doesn't like me AT ALL."

 

Please stop judging a woman's behavior based on a man's standards ("Well eye contact is easy for ME, so it must be easy for THEM.") Women and men are conditioned differently, grow up with different social rules, and approach life differently. Until you've studied or lived as a woman, it isn't fair to label something that's easy for you as equally easy for her.

 

 

 

 

*The more mature and self-assured a woman is, the less likely she'll be to trap herself in with what society deems acceptable behavior. A parallel would be a guy who is so confident in his masculinity he can indulge in "gay" behavior and not feel like less of a man.

[ScreamingTrees]

I basically said the same **** as somedude a page ago and got ignored. I guess I must have leprosy or something.

 

Women are allowed to feel rejected whenever they'd like, but it's like a guy thinking every girl finds him unattractive - it's an untrue, mentally warped way of looking at others, and it might possibly be a reason for a person to not put themselves out there for fear of embarassment.

 

Not saying a girl has to do all of the work to attract someone, but at the same time, don't cry and come up with exuses when nothing's happening.

[verhrzn]

I basically said the same **** as somedude a page ago and got ignored. I guess I must have leprosy or something.

 

Women are allowed to feel rejected whenever they'd like, but it's like a guy thinking every girl finds him unattractive - it's an untrue, mentally warped way of looking at others, and it might possibly be a reason for a person to not put themselves out there for fear of embarassment.

 

Not saying a girl has to do all of the work to attract someone, but at the same time, don't cry and come up with exuses when nothing's happening.

 

Go back and read my last post above yours, and try to get the judgmental attitude that women's perspective is "untrue, mentally warped way of looking at others."

[Titania22]

Oh really now? Ohhh la la

 

You know it.

 

I love a man with a big heart and a big penis. That's a winning combo IMHO.

[verhrzn]

That's because only men care about relationships and dating. Women are indifferent to it. Men like women more than vice versa.

 

Most women don't care at all about finding a man. But to most men it's a high priority in life to find a woman.

 

Of course! That's why it's men who joke about how marriage is a drag, that's why men complain about how their wife is a nag, that's why men are known as the bigger committmentphobes and women are known as being "marriage crazy"....That's why there are THOUSANDS of dating and relationships articles written for women, and hardly any for men beyond books like "The Game" (aka, how to BED women, not DATE women).... Because finding a relationship is SUCH a priority to men.

 

Gimme a break. How can you actually write this stuff and take yourself seriously?

[verhrzn]

According to the women here, yes. In that case I have rejected hundreds of girls just during my time in highschool because I didn't ask out a single one there.

 

Obviously yes.

 

Women like seeing men get rejected and humiliated. It makes them feel good.

 

And without a single word about my response to him.... You guys here on LS really are just determined to paint women as the enemy, women as the evil manipulators who love "rejecting and humiliating" men, regardless of how much evidence DY and I put in front of you.

[ScreamingTrees]

Go back and read my last post above yours, and try to get the judgmental attitude that women's perspective is "untrue, mentally warped way of looking at others."

 

Well, I'm sorry that I've insulted you, and I was only questioning the logic. I just hope you can understand that I'm trying to see things through the eyes of a female.

 

I just PERSONALLY don't believe that every girl that I haven't asked out felt personally rejected by me. Maybe the few that actually DID like me felt that way, but people look at each other all of the time. Every time I look at a stranger, she generally looks back, very rarely for longer than a second or so. If I asked half of them out, 90% chance none of them would be receptive.

 

Maybe I should just wear a shirt that says "want to go out with me?" at least every random girl I walk by throughout the day has the opportunity to not feel rejected.

 

Honestly, I've never made another human being out to be some sort of inhumane creature, regardless of their gender. Women are no exception to that rule.

[verhrzn]

Well, I'm sorry that I've insulted you, and I was only questioning the logic. I just hope you can understand that I'm trying to see things through the eyes of a female.

 

I just PERSONALLY don't believe that every girl that I haven't asked out felt personally rejected by me. Maybe the few that actually DID like me felt that way, but people look at each other all of the time. Every time I look at a stranger, she generally looks back, very rarely for longer than a second or so. If I asked half of them out, 90% chance none of them would be receptive.

 

Maybe I should just wear a shirt that says "want to go out with me?" at least every random girl I walk by throughout the day has the opportunity to not feel rejected.

 

Honestly, I've never made another human being out to be some sort of inhumane creature, regardless of their gender. Women are no exception to that rule.

 

No, not EVERY girl you've made eye contact with felt rejected. That was never my point.

 

I said women give out subtle hints. Quick eye contact is NOT a hint. Women make their interest known through nonverbal signals... if a girl is giving off these signals, and you ignore/don't notice them, THEN she'll feel rejected.

 

There's tons of information out there on the web as to the nonverbal hints that show girls are interested... Prolonged eye contact, smiling/smirking, touching some part of her (hair especially), seeming interested in what you have to say... these are the sorts of things I mention. That's how some guys have such a high success rate-cause they know the signs to look for, they are good at reading body language.

[ScreamingTrees]

I've seen all of these signs, and it didn't mean anything. Girls can't read minds, they can't always be sure a guy is intentionally ignoring the signs, I'm sure lots of attractive guys can't SEE the signs, so there's no conscious decision to ignore them. I don't see why a girl would beat herself up over this, it has nothing to do with her attractiveness.

 

If I suspected a girl was flirting with me, I wouldn't ask her out, because I would just assume that she probably wasn't attracted to me based on an overall lack of experience with that sort of stuff, even if she was. How do you know the guy who you think "rejected" you didn't feel the same way?

 

I'm not saying a girl CAN'T feel rejected, and I'm sure they do, but to me, it's just beating yourself up over what may be imaginary failures. Maybe the fact that I think like this is why I'm a loser when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Edited September 13, 2011 by ScreamingTrees

[Content]

Seriously if I was a woman I'd get extremley annoyed at this cliché that women care more about relationships than men.

 

It is a myth and a cliché as a result from usually male owned media who gets off on portraying women as being so romantic and being sooo focused on finding a husband.

 

It's narcisstic by the men who portray women like that to think women care about them.

 

In REALITY, yes men like women more han vice versa. When men complain about a nagging wife or about how marriage is a drag, he's just doing it to ft into the stereotype... in reality he probably feels the opposite.

 

It does seem going by these forums that the myth is pretty untrue, you see a lot of helpless romantic Males and a lot of women looking for mr pricne charming who fits the thousand things they put in their checklist

[verhrzn]

I've seen all of these signs, and it didn't mean anything. Girls can't read minds, they can't always be sure a guy is intentionally ignoring the signs, I'm sure lots of attractive guys can't SEE the signs, so there's no conscious decision to ignore them. I don't see why a girl would beat herself up over this, it has nothing to do with her attractiveness.

 

If I suspected a girl was flirting with me, I wouldn't ask her out, because I would just assume that she probably wasn't attracted to me based on an overall lack of experience with that sort of stuff, even if she was. How do you know the guy who you think "rejected" you didn't feel the same way?

 

I'm not saying a girl CAN'T feel rejected, and I'm sure they do, but to me, it's just beating yourself up over what may be imaginary failures. Maybe the fact that I think like this is why I'm a loser when it comes to this sort of stuff.

 

Because 1) women can be just as quick to assume what's easy for them is easy for men as other guys on this board assume stuff they do easily is easy for women... so they don't understand how a guy couldn't pick up her nonverbal cues when it's SO OBVIOUS (it is obvious... to other women.)

 

2) The logic goes that if he liked you, and received even the slightest hint, he'd go for it. Women, especially attractive women, are used to pushing off guys who women feel they didn't give the slightest sign of encouragement to, so it would figure that if a guy liked her, AND she gave some sign of interest, he would be ALL over that.

 

Try to look at it from a girl's perspective... She gives off signs of interest, and then the guy turns out and flirts with some hot girl instead. Yeah maybe he didn't see the signs-but the hot woman didn't give him any signs either. He just went for the one he liked, to coin somedude, "the most"... which was not her.

 

It's like that book "He's Just Not Into You." For the majority of the time, if the guy doesn't approach/pursue/court you, he really ISN'T into you, or he's into you only because you put forth all the effort.