Sneaking Around?

[UmbrellaBoy]

So, I've written here before, but the situation has evolved again.

 

Basically, to summarize, I was involved in a gradually increasing emotional affair with a guy for about a year. It was long-distance and started innocently enough. Neither of us was attached at the time and it started out one-sided as he initially didn't have those sorts of feelings for me, but since I had fallen so much in love (and still am) I refused to give up and made it my quest to win him over, and I think he liked the attention and so went along with it and tolerated it.

 

He got an "official" hometown boyfriend a few months in, a friend he'd known longer than me, yet continued to string me along and humor me and accept my gifts and affections more and more online as the months went by, and even initiated shirtless physical intimacy in the form of cuddling/spooning when I came up to visit him this spring (we shared his bed in just our shorts for several nights).

 

Then this summer there was some major drama where I cut him off for being so indecisive and jerking us all around like this. And after a few weeks he came back begging, revealed that he had developed major feelings for me over the course of my attempts to win him, saw me as strong but his BF as weak, and a mutual friend of ours (who lives in the same city as he does) told me that, basically, my guy said he was planning on a relationship (even long distance) with me if he and his boyfriend broke up over all the tension (which involved questions of religion and sexual morality; the guy and I are of the same faith, his boyfriend is not and tries to undermine it).

 

Regarding the tension with his BF during all this (in which I was the clear catalyst), my guy has vaguely expressed feeling "trapped and obligated" by guilt/pity in his current relationship (his boyfriend has some serious abandonment issues and has been very hurt in the past and my guy is afraid of hurting him) and it seemed to me and a lot of my friends like, at the time, my guy was trying to provoke a crisis and looking for a passive-aggressive way to end his relationship without having to directly end it (in a "It's not you, it's me" sort of thing). But if that were the case it backfired (as his boyfriend is desperately clingy, and ended up accepting the terms my guy seemed to think would end it).

 

Then a month later they moved in together (rashly, given how many clear fissures were/are there!) I blew up at him, spoke my peace, thought I was going to leave forever, but realized I was over-reacting (or at least not being productive), apologized, and announced that I was moving to his city, which I'd been considering for a long time.

 

Well, he basically said we needed "some time apart," didn't talk to me after the blow up for seven weeks except some VERY brief and formal exchanges about the details of my move, and when I confronted him about what was basically a "back off" email I got from his boyfriend (odd timing on that; "our" guy and I hadn't been speaking for like 3 weeks at that point already. But maybe it was spurred by my guy finally telling his BF about my move?) It turned out that my guy did not know about this email (his BF has never contacted me before or since, I've never met him) and that the BF had sent it behind his back.

 

Fast-forward a few weeks, I move to his city, am getting settled in, the first few days I'm here I'm super worried that my guy is just going to go silent forever and that my already impetuous move (though I have other friends here and like the city) is going to be even more tragic and foolhardy. I'm wondering whether he is ignoring me just because he's hurt by the mean things I said (he's rather fragile), or whether what I said made him realize that we had gotten innappropriately emotionally close and was trying to distance or escape that to salvage his relationship with his BF, or whether the BF had issued an ultimatum that I be cut out of the picture etc. It's really hard to tell from silence.

 

Finally, though, he talks to me last night. The conversation is amicable, there are even some little jokes and smilies thrown in, but still somewhat chilly and awkward as might be expected after 7 weeks of not really talking. He fills me in on his life, wants to know all about my move, etc

 

Then, however, he says something interesting. He says something like, "I'd like to see you sometime but, I'm sure you understand, my boyfriend does not support that. But, hopefully sometime, if you'd like. I think there is a lot we could talk about."

 

Now, the "lot we could talk about" scares me a bit. But, at the same time, I feel like he is intending the meeting to be ultimately reconciliatory and friendly, or else he wouldn't say his boyfriend wouldn't support it (surely, if the meeting was entirely BAD for me, like a final-closure or "laying down the law" meeting...his boyfriend WOULD support it, no?)

 

So...what should I be thinking? This mention of how the boyfriend doesn't like the idea of us meeting seems odd. Is it a sign for me to back off and not get my hopes up for any meeting? Or is it my guy being manipulative again and trying to be "fought" over or to start having our meetings be "secret" or "discrete" in order to avoid the boyfriend's disapproval?

 

I've read that when there is an explosion (like there was, several actually, this summer) the person having the affair often disappears until the dust settles (trying to appease their official partner, etc) but then comes crawling back to the affair partner once the dust does settle and tries to resume things. Is that what's going on here?

 

I've already heard all the "just leave him! you shouldn't be second best" etc advice, thank you. Frankly, I didn't mind the old status quo and am just wondering what insights you have on what's going on, what my chances are of catalyzing more drama or shaking things up or resuming the emotional affair, if there is anything I should try in order to escalate things, etc

[spice4life]

Hmm...if you want to sneak around then go ahead. Personally, I would say, "no, I'm not sneaking around, your relationship problems are your issues and if you want to be with me, there will be no "A" rules or sneaking around." If you don't like it then move along and leave me alone because "I" am not going to play that game. No one, NO ONE is going to put me through some kind of "training" ... no way! If they have personal issues somewhere else, don't bring it into my world...period. If they want to have someone who will bend to their restrictions, they need to look some where else.

 

BUT, if you are willing to put yourself through that, then go ahead. Personally, I wouldn't.

[fooled once]

He isn't into you. You are bordering on stalker.

 

You talk about how needy the BF is; yet you are no different. You even MOVE to where he lives (I know, I know, you were 'planning' that already) and this guy as NO interest in you. You continue to mock HIS BOYFRIEND. As for the boyfriend not supporting the 'meeting'; that's easy. The boyfriend KNOWS how desperate you are to have HIS boyfriend. He knows you would probably do anything you could to get HIS boyfriend. He knows you are way overboard over his boyfriend. He has no desire to have you in THEIR life.

 

Look at it this way....if my H told me about some girl he knew years ago who has flirted with him, has indicated she is interested in him, calls him, belittles me to him, etc. - if he told me she relocated to OUR area and wanted to see him, I can tell you how I would react.

 

I would tell him "good, what night are WE going out" or tell him that I trust him, but I guess he doesn't see how much she is into him and him being naive at times and too trusting, I would not be all "Yay - go have fun - have a few drinks - enjoy".

 

I trust my H and he is a big boy and he values our marriage. I also know women and how manipulative and desperate they can be. I know the 'tricks' some women use to get a man alone, and I know desperate people tend to take desperate measures to get something they want.

 

From what you have written, this guy isn't into you. Don't be shocked if his boyfriend shows up with him at the 'meeting'. As for the "lot you could talk about" it could be about how he needs you to leave him alone; it could be about how he isn't into you and he thinks you need professional help. It could be that he is frightened by your continual reaching out to him when he is not encouraging you. It could be that he doesn't know how to delicately say "thanks but no thanks". I honestly think you are reading way too much into every word he says. Just because you spooned doesn't equal a love relationship. Just because you are so into him doesn't mean he is so into you. Maybe he just wants to tell you to back off - if / when he is free, and wants to pursue something with you, he will. Maybe he wants you to stop belittling and criticizing the man he loves.

 

What will it take for you to realize he isn't leaving his boyfriend? Moving in didn't 'show' you that he wasn't interested in you. If he told you he loves his boyfriend, will you then back off?

[wannabdone]

So, I've written here before, but the situation has evolved again.

 

Basically, to summarize, I was involved in a gradually increasing emotional affair with a guy for about a year. It was long-distance and started innocently enough. Neither of us was attached at the time and it started out one-sided as he initially didn't have those sorts of feelings for me, but since I had fallen so much in love (and still am) I refused to give up and made it my quest to win him over, and I think he liked the attention and so went along with it and tolerated it.

 

He got an "official" hometown boyfriend a few months in, a friend he'd known longer than me, yet continued to string me along and humor me and accept my gifts and affections more and more online as the months went by, and even initiated shirtless physical intimacy in the form of cuddling/spooning when I came up to visit him this spring (we shared his bed in just our shorts for several nights).

 

Then this summer there was some major drama where I cut him off for being so indecisive and jerking us all around like this. And after a few weeks he came back begging, revealed that he had developed major feelings for me over the course of my attempts to win him, saw me as strong but his BF as weak, and a mutual friend of ours (who lives in the same city as he does) told me that, basically, my guy said he was planning on a relationship (even long distance) with me if he and his boyfriend broke up over all the tension (which involved questions of religion and sexual morality; the guy and I are of the same faith, his boyfriend is not and tries to undermine it).

 

Regarding the tension with his BF during all this (in which I was the clear catalyst), my guy has vaguely expressed feeling "trapped and obligated" by guilt/pity in his current relationship (his boyfriend has some serious abandonment issues and has been very hurt in the past and my guy is afraid of hurting him) and it seemed to me and a lot of my friends like, at the time, my guy was trying to provoke a crisis and looking for a passive-aggressive way to end his relationship without having to directly end it (in a "It's not you, it's me" sort of thing). But if that were the case it backfired (as his boyfriend is desperately clingy, and ended up accepting the terms my guy seemed to think would end it).

 

Then a month later they moved in together (rashly, given how many clear fissures were/are there!) I blew up at him, spoke my peace, thought I was going to leave forever, but realized I was over-reacting (or at least not being productive), apologized, and announced that I was moving to his city, which I'd been considering for a long time.

 

Well, he basically said we needed "some time apart," didn't talk to me after the blow up for seven weeks except some VERY brief and formal exchanges about the details of my move, and when I confronted him about what was basically a "back off" email I got from his boyfriend (odd timing on that; "our" guy and I hadn't been speaking for like 3 weeks at that point already. But maybe it was spurred by my guy finally telling his BF about my move?) It turned out that my guy did not know about this email (his BF has never contacted me before or since, I've never met him) and that the BF had sent it behind his back.

 

Fast-forward a few weeks, I move to his city, am getting settled in, the first few days I'm here I'm super worried that my guy is just going to go silent forever and that my already impetuous move (though I have other friends here and like the city) is going to be even more tragic and foolhardy. I'm wondering whether he is ignoring me just because he's hurt by the mean things I said (he's rather fragile), or whether what I said made him realize that we had gotten innappropriately emotionally close and was trying to distance or escape that to salvage his relationship with his BF, or whether the BF had issued an ultimatum that I be cut out of the picture etc. It's really hard to tell from silence.

 

Finally, though, he talks to me last night. The conversation is amicable, there are even some little jokes and smilies thrown in, but still somewhat chilly and awkward as might be expected after 7 weeks of not really talking. He fills me in on his life, wants to know all about my move, etc

 

Then, however, he says something interesting. He says something like, "I'd like to see you sometime but, I'm sure you understand, my boyfriend does not support that. But, hopefully sometime, if you'd like. I think there is a lot we could talk about."

 

Now, the "lot we could talk about" scares me a bit. But, at the same time, I feel like he is intending the meeting to be ultimately reconciliatory and friendly, or else he wouldn't say his boyfriend wouldn't support it (surely, if the meeting was entirely BAD for me, like a final-closure or "laying down the law" meeting...his boyfriend WOULD support it, no?)

 

So...what should I be thinking? This mention of how the boyfriend doesn't like the idea of us meeting seems odd. Is it a sign for me to back off and not get my hopes up for any meeting? Or is it my guy being manipulative again and trying to be "fought" over or to start having our meetings be "secret" or "discrete" in order to avoid the boyfriend's disapproval?

 

I've read that when there is an explosion (like there was, several actually, this summer) the person having the affair often disappears until the dust settles (trying to appease their official partner, etc) but then comes crawling back to the affair partner once the dust does settle and tries to resume things. Is that what's going on here?

 

I've already heard all the "just leave him! you shouldn't be second best" etc advice, thank you. Frankly, I didn't mind the old status quo and am just wondering what insights you have on what's going on, what my chances are of catalyzing more drama or shaking things up or resuming the emotional affair, if there is anything I should try in order to escalate things, etc

 

 

WOW UB. You got more drama than you can shake a stick at!!!!

 

Quite frankly, I understand.... when some one isn't speakin to you or when the do they "skirt" the issue, its hard to get a read off of things. What I have learned being in a A for many years and it seems to be my motto.... Actions, not words. Don't listen to what they are saying, "listen" to what they are doing. Make sense? He's being shady, you feel that in your gut. I believe he is.

Here is a question....if you never met his bf, how in the hell did he get your email address to write to you???

I know many people, who have tried to make circumstances so intolerable that the other party will leave. But, in this case, it seems that his bf only digs his heels in even more. And it definitely seems like "your man" as you call him (which he's not, he's his), quite frankly is too much of a coward to say "its over"....so that alone tells me....they will never break up. Now, with the bf digging his heels in and clinging to him, its seems like your man likes it and is getting an ego boost over it. So maybe he told the bf in order to get him all up in arms and dig his heels in even further. If you ask me, he likes men fighting over him. I think hes playing you. I think when he said "my bf won't approve" he is telling you that hes with him, but he will see you. Basically saying .... you can be my OM. I think he is going to play you both, I think he will pit the two of you agaisnt eachother. He will tell you that his bf is so fragile and manipulative, and he's stuck, and he will tell his bf that you are chasing him and a physco and he can't get rid of you. All the while sitting back while the two of you break your backs to win his love and attention, and are in compeition with each other. How do I know this??? Because the man I have been dearly in love with did this to me for years.

 

I know you say you are willing to do this. But let me tell you something honey, this man will only get worse and worse. The games will be come more, the selfishness will grow to the point that the man you were so much in love with, you will not even recognize him. And you will find your self battered and bruised, and ****ed up from the floor up, because of all the emotional abuse and rollarcoaster you have been on for years.

 

I know you said you don't want to hear don't do it.... but i'm telling you don't. Its not fun, its not exciting. its awful. my suggestion is to run, don't walk.

[UmbrellaBoy]

If you ask me, he likes men fighting over him. I think hes playing you. I think when he said "my bf won't approve" he is telling you that hes with him, but he will see you. Basically saying .... you can be my OM. I think he is going to play you both, I think he will pit the two of you against each other. He will tell you that his bf is so fragile and manipulative, and he's stuck, and he will tell his bf that you are chasing him and a psycho and he can't get rid of you.

 

 

Knowing him, sadly, I think this is much more likely than a simple "not interested" thing. This summer, he basically told a mutual friend (who can't be trusted to keep secrets...) to sort of try to undermine things with another guy I was considering switching to (to escape this mess) because he would be "insanely jealous" if he found out I was with someone else. And yet, he doesn't empathize with the jealousy both his BF and I are feeling?? He doesn't want to see me with someone else, but won't commit either.

 

And I am fine with that, I just wanted to know if this is the situation I'm in, so I can act accordingly...

[wannabdone]

Knowing him, sadly, I think this is much more likely than a simple "not interested" thing. This summer, he basically told a mutual friend (who can't be trusted to keep secrets...) to sort of try to undermine things with another guy I was considering switching to (to escape this mess) because he would be "insanely jealous" if he found out I was with someone else. And yet, he doesn't empathize with the jealousy both his BF and I are feeling?? He doesn't want to see me with someone else, but won't commit either.

 

And I am fine with that, I just wanted to know if this is the situation I'm in, so I can act accordingly...

 

I have to disagree.... when ppl aren't interested, its very easy to see...they leave you be. He continues contact just enough to keep you around. He is interested, but unfortunately I think he's interested in just using you.

 

You are better than either one of those. You deserve the best!!!

 

Keep us updated....please?

[UmbrellaBoy]

Will try to keep you posted.

[Gentlegirl]

Will try to keep you posted.

Seems to me you did you fair share of pursuing him . YOu made it your quest to win him.

 

You knew what was what and you still do.

 

He is playing with you, you haven't won him at all. He is dangling the treat in front of you for when it pleases him.

 

Extricate yourself from this mess before World War Three destroys you.

 

Good Luck.

 

thinking of you.

 

Gentlegirl

[UmbrellaBoy]

So, just an update:

 

The guy has now asked for my PO box info so he can send me a gift (but, shh, don't tell the boyfriend...)

 

I'm pretty sure this means the emotional affair is back on?

 

Oh, and he NEVER sent gifts in the past, it was always me doing the gestures like that (trying to win him, of course). Now, suddenly, we make up and I move here...and he starts sending the gifts?

[wannabdone]

I've said it before and I will say it again.... this guy is full of manipulation and games.

 

I'd run.

 

So, apparently you two are staying in contact.

[UmbrellaBoy]

Okay, so, today he texted me and told me he had mailed his thing.

 

I've been going over in my head all the good or bad things it could be, and finally that got so anxiety-provoking I just asked, "Is this good or bad??"

 

He sent me back a text saying it is a religious poem he wrote (presumably hand-written, he has emailed other poems) and that the tone should be "poignant and hopeful." The poem won't be about "us" it seems, though I'm thinking it may be "dedicated" to me.

 

In other news, I had a long debate with a mutual friend/confidante of ours, who doesn't terribly support me meddling, even passively, in things. And yet, he keeps slipping me information (so I don't really know what his M.O. is either). He basically said that my presence here is making the guy consider leaving his boyfriend for me...

[MissBee]

I have to disagree.... when ppl aren't interested, its very easy to see...they leave you be. He continues contact just enough to keep you around. He is interested, but unfortunately I think he's interested in just using you.

You are better than either one of those. You deserve the best!!!

 

Keep us updated....please?

 

I agree!

 

I think that is such an important distinction wannabdone! Someone may be interested in you, but for what reason? And to what degree? If their interest is a level 4 and involves popping in and out of your life, using you for an ego stroke, sex, game playing etc, but you want them to be interested at a level 10 and actually be in a committed relationship with you...then you are at cross purposes! If our interest levels and why we're interested in each other don't match then you can take your interest elsewhere!

[wannabdone]

You must really like drama in your life UB, maybe you should think about why.

 

 

"like"!!!!!!