casual sex with people you don't really like

[bluenightowl]

I don't see any virtue in waiting, but to each their own. Not everyone's sex drives are created equal after all.

Absolutely agreed. That was essentially main point.

 

Its not about sex drive and waiting would be a conscious effort to get to know someone. Sure you can just let loose and #$%# like dogs on day 1 if you want to and some people end up in a happy LTR.

 

Other people @#$@ like dogs early and then discover their partner is @#$# like dogs with someone else as well. Some people @#$@# like dogs early and then never call back (and more woman are doing this now as well) Some people @#@# like dogs and then get an STD. because there was no time to talk about STD's. Some people @#$@ like dogs because they are using them to get over an EX or to make him/her jealous.

 

So sure, for you there may be no virtue in waiting, but I do see why people wait, and if someone @#$@ like dogs really early I can see how they might not have much respect for this person and why someone they do want to get to know and respect would matter more to them to wait, but as you say, to each their own.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I don't see any virtue in waiting, but to each their own. Not everyone's sex drives are created equal after all.

 

Being able to wait a reasonable period of time has nothing to do with someone's sex drive. In fact, I'd say 'virtue untested is not virtue'...

 

I prefer to test for 'virtue' sooner rather than later. If they can't keep their d*ck in their pants, demonstrate some self-imposed discretion, and take responsibility for their sexuality now... they certainly won't later.

 

It certainly isn't all up to me. If that is what they believe... then out they go.

[GivenUp0083]

I don't know if I'd describe it in the same words but I can see where the OP is coming from. If you're the one that isn't seen as LTR potential and the person is willing/does sleep with you then it's easy to be hurt.

 

However, for me personally: I've been hurt pretty bad enough times where I don't care as much if I hurt a girl because I only wanted to have sex with her. Now I won't go throwing out ILY's and introducing the to friends/family, but I think it's fair to take them out, grab a drink, maybe go out to dinner, do some fun things together....so long as we're having sex. I don't declare my intentions, but if they ask, I'll say that I'm not ready for a relationship right now or that I'm not looking for something too serious. I tell them I like where things are right now and I want to keep spending time with them. That's the truth in some fashion. I'm not leading them on, but I'm not revealing my 100% true feelings either.

 

I'm in that boat right now. There's a girl I'm super attracted to that I slept with on the first date. I want to sleep with her again and I don't mind going on another date and would love to hook up again. If she's ok with that then awesome and I'll do that until she voices that she wants something else....or until I meet a girl that knocks my socks off and that I would really want an LTR with.

 

I've been burned by putting my eggs in one basket before and I won't do it again. Until I meet a girl I'm nuts about and she's expressed she wants exclusivity with me, then I'm not burning other bridges or going to stop pursuing sexual relationships with other women. That's just how it's going to be. I have to look out for myself and my personal needs now instead of putting other people's feelings ahead of my own.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I have to look out for myself and my personal needs now instead of putting other people's feelings ahead of my own.

 

With that attitude, I don't imagine you being able to hold onto a woman for long. They usually pick up on that pretty quick... the part about you just getting your needs met without worrying about their feelings that is...

 

Hence, the 'fling' zone...

[rafallus]

No.

 

I am not questioning, if people have reason to wait. They do, I can take it for granted.

 

What I do not understand is holier than thou attitude, in that, just because someone waits, that makes them somehow virtuous, and those who don't, are lower lifeforms. Mndset comparable to recent talk about tattoos.

 

And if it was that proverbial woman X described in prior post, then such mindset would be plainly hysterical.

 

Being able to wait a reasonable period of time has nothing to do with someone's sex drive. In fact, I'd say 'virtue untested is not virtue'...

 

I prefer to test for 'virtue' sooner rather than later. If they can't keep their d*ck in their pants, demonstrate some self-imposed discretion, and take responsibility for their sexuality now... they certainly won't later.

 

It certainly isn't all up to me. If that is what they believe... then out they go.

 

What if they keep a charade strong, wait with you, but have sex with others, while you aren't exclusive. Certainly they had a right to do so, right?

[OliveOyl]

I don't think timing of sex has anything to do with "quality" at all. If I were to wait (but I'm not one who waits for a long period of time) the main reason I'd hold off on sex is that I know I tend to get attached more quickly after having sex. Which is why I wouldn't have sex any more quickly with someone I didn't like (see as a possible BF), because I might start getting attached regardless. And then that would be confusing.

 

On the other hand, I don't wait as a "test of quality" or to bestow any psychic gift or anything like that. Just view some animal videos and you see it's not a magical psychic gift; it's a natural animal phenomenon...

[verhrzn]

I'm approaching from the other side, that her holding off on sex isn't because she is trying to manipulate men, but because she sees a chance at a successful relationship and there are countless articles talking about the virtue of delaying sex a bit so you can really get to know someone and be successful in a relationship.

 

If such a person is willing to have sex with someone early and not someone else, I do agree you have to wonder about her overall character or state of mind/readiness, but people are strange creatures and generally selfish.

 

However, it would mean she loves sex as much as any man. I think men do this as well sometimes if its a woman they just meet at a bar, and they are both horny and that its, he'll have sex, but if she is a wonderful woman, some might want to take the time to nurture the budding relationship before complicating it.

 

I've generally been one of those people that only has sex with people I want an LDR with but do so without the safety net of a committed relationship, and overall I've found I get burned very badly by doing so... I'm told over and over that until I have that title of GF I should be withholding, or I'll jinx it/make the guy think I'm a slut.

 

Honestly, I think the next time I find a guy who seems interested in me, I probably will pull the "hard to get"/"withholding"/"make him earn it" move. Not because I myself enjoy it (I like sex and I hate games) but because guys seem to respond to this tactic.

[sm1tten]

I think whatever works for you, works for you. But I agree with this:

 

What I do not understand is holier than thou attitude, in that, just because someone waits, that makes them somehow virtuous, and those who don't, are lower lifeforms.

 

And along with that, the attitude that this way is better. I'm happy with my way and I'm happy with where it's brought me, but I don't think it's better for anyone except me. (And if I was unhappy with it, I'd probably change it. )

[AHardDaysNight]

No.

 

I am not questioning, if people have reason to wait. They do, I can take it for granted.

 

What I do not understand is holier than thou attitude, in that, just because someone waits, that makes them somehow virtuous, and those who don't, are lower lifeforms. Mndset comparable to recent talk about tattoos.

 

Well, personally I find virginity more attractive than promiscuity. If that makes me holier than thou, so be it.

[bluenightowl]

Now, I think the REAL question is... why would anyone have sex or pursue anything with anyone who doesn't care about their feelings after sex?? Period. Because I'm rather sick of guys blaming women for their promiscuous behavior. Not you Pierre... of course. But lots of other guys here.

 

Good question with many answers. Of course, its an assumption that each others feelings are known after sex and before sex. I doubt it until there is some crisis like he/she finds out they are sleeping with other people. I doubt the 'fling' would continue much longer at that point.

 

Why do people pursue having quick sex with someone who (they don't know) doesn't care. I see this all the time in these forums.

 

It seems lots of people are afraid to communicate because they are worried they will scare the other person off. (The whole are we exclusive and sharing my boundaries discussion and when to do it) I get that and it works for casual dating to have some mystery, keep it light and fun, but it seems to break down fast once sex and other people they are dating gets mixed into it.

 

Second people do things they think will please other people. In this case it might be either party. One wants to keep hanging out casually until they meet their BBD, so they do some things to please the other person, and likewise the person pushing for sex might be trying to please the other person as well.

 

Third they do it because they are hoping by having sex it will secure the relationship. Very often it does and people know that. Most people esp. woman will lockin and stop dating other people at the point of sex, but now some woman won't. They might have be totally independent, and happy to be that way, and won't settle for less, and if a guy pushes for sex, sure she'll go along with it until the BBD comes along. Of course again, nothing has been said, so her cover, or his hasn't been revealed that they really don't want much more than a fling, no matter how many dates they go on afterwards.

 

All bad reasons when you don't know the person enough to feel okay asking if they might have an STD, husband, or GF/BF, but I suspect 1/3 of all posts here are people asking what they should do, rather than communicating with the person directly usually out of this fear of scaring the person off.

 

Some people on here like Pierre and Nexus One will never have to worry about this scenario because they want clarity right from the start. So many others are happy to stay cool and just see how it goes and that's okay too, just more risky if you actually care about the person.

[phineas]

Really? Care to share? What would she say exactly to make you think that?

 

"I used to go to other high-schools to slut around so I didn't get a reputation in mine" ?

[bluenightowl]

What I do not understand is holier than thou attitude, in that, just because someone waits, that makes them somehow virtuous, and those who don't, are lower lifeforms. Mndset comparable to recent talk about tattoos.

 

Yes, I agree with you there. Sometimes the people who see people more favourably for waiting are doing so out of there own experiences, but it doesn't mean those people are lower lifeforms.

 

As well, everyone has varying degrees of sexual experience and are at different stages of their life in terms of discovering what works for them.

 

You do hear a lot about the wisdom of waiting and I think there is merit to the idea. That said, having early sex with someone who they don't like, and waiting for the good one to me seems selfish to a large degree. It wouldn't be if that was communicated, but it never is.

[bluenightowl]

I don't know if I'd describe it in the same words but I can see where the OP is coming from. If you're the one that isn't seen as LTR potential and the person is willing/does sleep with you then it's easy to be hurt.

 

However, for me personally: I've been hurt pretty bad enough times where I don't care as much if I hurt a girl because I only wanted to have sex with her. Now I won't go throwing out ILY's and introducing the to friends/family, but I think it's fair to take them out, grab a drink, maybe go out to dinner, do some fun things together....so long as we're having sex. I don't declare my intentions, but if they ask, I'll say that I'm not ready for a relationship right now or that I'm not looking for something too serious. I tell them I like where things are right now and I want to keep spending time with them. That's the truth in some fashion. I'm not leading them on, but I'm not revealing my 100% true feelings either.

 

I'm in that boat right now. There's a girl I'm super attracted to that I slept with on the first date. I want to sleep with her again and I don't mind going on another date and would love to hook up again. If she's ok with that then awesome and I'll do that until she voices that she wants something else....or until I meet a girl that knocks my socks off and that I would really want an LTR with.

 

I've been burned by putting my eggs in one basket before and I won't do it again. Until I meet a girl I'm nuts about and she's expressed she wants exclusivity with me, then I'm not burning other bridges or going to stop pursuing sexual relationships with other women. That's just how it's going to be. I have to look out for myself and my personal needs now instead of putting other people's feelings ahead of my own.

 

I get your post, but its too bad that because you've been burned you feel the need to follow the same kinds of behaviour that caused you to get hurt and thus might hurt others. I imagine this kind of thinking is quite common. Just like people who don't like multi-dating but do it to protect themselves.

[bluenightowl]

And along with that, the attitude that this way is better. I'm happy with my way and I'm happy with where it's brought me, but I don't think it's better for anyone except me. (And if I was unhappy with it, I'd probably change it. )

 

Perhaps how early or not is less of an issue for you because you communicate well. If after two dates, you agree to not date anyone else and give it a real try it could work.

 

If after two dates you are afraid to communicate because its so early, but have sex, then anything is possible including the scenario that a guy/woman might see you as a fling only and drop you *ss as soon as someone better comes along.

[sally4sara]

I don't know if I'd describe it in the same words but I can see where the OP is coming from. If you're the one that isn't seen as LTR potential and the person is willing/does sleep with you then it's easy to be hurt.

 

Its nice to at least see a guy admit this part of the equation. There are people out there that let others decide their worth for them. These people are not hard to spot either so I've always believed that people who label others not good enough for deeper care yet go ahead and tangle with them ARE USING PEOPLE KNOWINGLY. Some of them even get their kicks that way and its pretty . Its a varying degree thing tho; I think most just don't think about what they are doing too deeply because its a bit of a buzz kill.

 

However, for me personally: I've been hurt pretty bad enough times where I don't care as much if I hurt a girl because I only wanted to have sex with her.

I think we've all been hurt by someone. Sometimes that someone is a person who was hurt by another and when they met us, they just didn't care as much if they too hurt us. Its a vicious cycle I won't participate in and wonder why others don't avoid when they know the cost. I figure if you're into uncaring and nigh anonymous sex it should be had with others who are into that too rather than people who might just be naive or on a self destructive bend.

 

Now I won't go throwing out ILY's and introducing the to friends/family, but I think it's fair to take them out, grab a drink, maybe go out to dinner, do some fun things together....so long as we're having sex. I don't declare my intentions, but if they ask, I'll say that I'm not ready for a relationship right now or that I'm not looking for something too serious. I tell them I like where things are right now and I want to keep spending time with them. That's the truth in some fashion. I'm not leading them on, but I'm not revealing my 100% true feelings either.

This is where I often press people further. We talk bunches about talking about and knowing the sexual health of our sex partners prior to having sex because its being sexually responsible, but we won't do that when it comes to other peoples' emotions and feelings. Why? Because knowing what you're exposing yourself to is unfortunately, way more important to us than what we expose others to by our actions. Truly we can be better than this. So when folks say I'm not lying or leading them on I know they are just lying more to themselves to justify what they are doing. Really what they do is what you're being partially honest about in this post. You ARE leading on the ones who are not responsible enough to watch their own back by omitting and waiting till they catch on to it. The whole I like the time we spend as it is and I want more time like this with you is really a saccharine way to say "no I don't like you enough to grow further but I want to continue having access to your sex parts for a while longer".

 

I'm in that boat right now. There's a girl I'm super attracted to that I slept with on the first date. I want to sleep with her again and I don't mind going on another date and would love to hook up again. If she's ok with that then awesome and I'll do that until she voices that she wants something else....or until I meet a girl that knocks my socks off and that I would really want an LTR with.

See, you know it might go that way so wouldn't making sure she is on the same tip prevent it from getting stupid? I'd hate to believe you wouldn't do that because it might end the ride sooner than you want because somewhere in there the claim of consenting adults gets a bit thin. A person can't consent to a situation they don't know is going on.

 

I've been burned by putting my eggs in one basket before and I won't do it again. Until I meet a girl I'm nuts about and she's expressed she wants exclusivity with me, then I'm not burning other bridges or going to stop pursuing sexual relationships with other women. That's just how it's going to be. I have to look out for myself and my personal needs now instead of putting other people's feelings ahead of my own.

I like sex better than masturbation too, but sex is not really a necessity especially when you know getting it could cause harm to others. Thinking like that is part of whats wrong with our self serving society. Edited September 8, 2011 by sally4sara

[bluenightowl]

I might be derailing this thread to ask, but is it true that by the time you have sex with someone you have a very good idea of whether you want relationship or just casual sex?

 

Is it possible someone might not know, could be confused and have too many options. My gut sense is no. In my case, I have always known at the point of sex if I want something serious or not, and from there it might take months to discover if we are really compatible or not.

 

I say this because I think people do know and as one of the posters mentioned, there is often this BS line of "I'm not sure what I want, but lets keep having sex, or you keep taking me out to dinner" or the classic "I don't know what I want (but I know I don't want you)" I can't think of a case where people are unsure. They might have too many options, but even then, whenever I've really liked someone its clear in my head, and whenever someone has liked me a lot, its very obvious they do.

[Cypress25]

I say this because I think people do know and as one of the posters mentioned, there is often this BS line of "I'm not sure what I want, but lets keep having sex, or you keep taking me out to dinner" or the classic "I don't know what I want (but I know I don't want you)"

 

This is the truth. People always know what they want (and what they don't want). But sometimes they don't want to admit it, so they pretend to be confused or uncertain. "I don't know what I want" is really code for "I know exactly what I want, but if I say it, you might stop giving me what I want."

 

You ARE leading on the ones who are not responsible enough to watch their own back by omitting and waiting till they catch on to it. The whole I like the time we spend as it is and I want more time like this with you is really a saccharine way to say "no I don't like you enough to grow further but I want to continue having access to your sex parts for a while longer".

 

+1. This kind of behavior is intentionally deceptive. People like GivenUp0083 target naive people and take advantage of their trusting nature. And they absolutely do it on purpose. If they told the truth, they wouldn't get what they want, so they keep quiet and wait for the sh*t to hit the fan.

[AHardDaysNight]

What about if you've never had sex before? Is your experience going to be the same as people who have had experience?

[bluenightowl]

What about if you've never had sex before? Is your experience going to be the same as people who have had experience?

 

I suspect you won't have to worry about this distinction for yourself, you'll probably be glowing. I would choose wisely the first time. Make sure you are both really into each other. Its good you are reading LS. Hopefully you'll avoid some of these pitfalls.

[ThsAmericanLife]

"I used to go to other high-schools to slut around so I didn't get a reputation in mine" ?

 

Ah, but that is not what I said.

 

I said I 'dated' boys from other HS... not the same thing. I didn't lose my virginity until 17... As a senior in HS. See... you think you are so smart

 

Yes, I know in YOUR world... dating = f**g. I'm betting your screening method is equally as imperfect. But whatever.

 

But, here is the inspiration for my dating boys in other schools...

 

There was a girl who dated the same guy from 10th grade through 12th... same school. They eventually got married... Every body in school knew everything about her body parts, what kind of sex they had (or didn't have)... you name it.

 

...and I'm a GIRL!! It wasn't like I was privy to locker room conversations. Did she tell??? Did he tell??? didn't matter.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Forgot to add... I started 'dating' when I was 15 and was considered 'popular'.

 

I was the captain of the cheerleading squad. Not exactly the HS cast-off. I had plenty of chances to be a 'slut' if I wanted to.

 

I do admit to being a 'wild child' though when I was younger. That equals experimental... not 'slut'. There is a difference.

 

Doing 'crazy' things with one guy is not the same thing as 'crazy' or 'boring vanilla' with lots of guys.

Edited September 9, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife

[GivenUp0083]

Its nice to at least see a guy admit this part of the equation. There are people out there that let others decide their worth for them. These people are not hard to spot either so I've always believed that people who label others not good enough for deeper care yet go ahead and tangle with them ARE USING PEOPLE KNOWINGLY. Some of them even get their kicks that way and its pretty . Its a varying degree thing tho; I think most just don't think about what they are doing too deeply because its a bit of a buzz kill.

 

Sally4sara, thank you for offering a differing opinion in a respectful manner, so I'll try to address that in the same way while remaining honest:

 

I'm not lying to myself. I know what I'm doing, I'm using the words to her to help her justify it, not justify it to myself. I have my justification: this is how it is and this is what I have to do to get what I want. As every that year passes I realize more and more that my place in this world isn't to find one woman to treat like a queen and marry her and start a family. It's what I've wanted most of my life, yet I realize that the path to search for that is a painful one and I'm not even certain it exists.

 

I've also never really had a relationship ended with me where the same courtesy was shown. I was recently lead on to believe my last gf was in love with me, and she lead me down a path that allowed me to fall in love with her. She did this knowingly and cause me a lot of pain, took me months to get over. When you love someone you give them a fragile piece of your soul, and every woman I've given that to has crushed it. I don't know if I have any soul left to give. In the meantime, I will do what makes me happy, I like sex with this girl, I'll do what is necessary to keep that going until the ride ends for any reason.

 

I think we've all been hurt by someone. Sometimes that someone is a person who was hurt by another and when they met us, they just didn't care as much if they too hurt us. Its a vicious cycle I won't participate in and wonder why others don't avoid when they know the cost. I figure if you're into uncaring and nigh anonymous sex it should be had with others who are into that too rather than people who might just be naive or on a self destructive bend.

 

I'm sure we all have, but I've been hurt my entire life. I've never had a gf show the same courtesy, and many of the women I've dated lacked even the respect to tell me they weren't interested in me anymore after 4-5 dates. We live in the "fade" era where people don't even say "I'm sorry but I don't feel the chemistry" or any other generic rejection, they just stop returning your calls and they ignore you. I've always been one to show respect for others feelings and I've turned away girls knowing they felt much stronger for me than I did for them to spare their feelings and to the honest thing. This has not paid off for me, I've never seen the same consideration returned.

 

Showing this courtesy to spare feelings that have never been spared for me is what I would describe using your words: "It is a vicious cycle I won't participate in." I won't stand alone any longer in trying to spare others feelings at the cost of my benefit when they wouldn't do the same for me.

 

This is where I often press people further. We talk bunches about talking about and knowing the sexual health of our sex partners prior to having sex because its being sexually responsible, but we won't do that when it comes to other peoples' emotions and feelings. Why? Because knowing what you're exposing yourself to is unfortunately, way more important to us than what we expose others to by our actions. Truly we can be better than this. So when folks say I'm not lying or leading them on I know they are just lying more to themselves to justify what they are doing. Really what they do is what you're being partially honest about in this post. You ARE leading on the ones who are not responsible enough to watch their own back by omitting and waiting till they catch on to it. The whole I like the time we spend as it is and I want more time like this with you is really a saccharine way to say "no I don't like you enough to grow further but I want to continue having access to your sex parts for a while longer".

 

Unfortunately it is a game. I refused to play for most of my life, but I was always the one who lost or got hurt. If they aren't smart enough to know how to go on dates without giving up the goods to see where a man's true intentions lie, then it's not my fault for doing what millions of men in this country do every day. The women I date are old enough to know better.

 

Example: the girl I mentioned in my previous post, I hit her up today via text, she's going out tonight with friends, I told her I'm taking it easy but if she wants to come over and hang out after to shoot me a text. She said she'd totally be down for that. So there, I don't even need to take her on a date. The only innocent thing I can say with a straight face is that for all I know she's looking for the same thing with me, maybe she just wants sex too after realizing it probably won't go further than that. So am I to risk making a situation awkward and sabotaging my chance at a casual sex relationship by being brutally honest?

 

See, you know it might go that way so wouldn't making sure she is on the same tip prevent it from getting stupid? I'd hate to believe you wouldn't do that because it might end the ride sooner than you want because somewhere in there the claim of consenting adults gets a bit thin. A person can't consent to a situation they don't know is going on.

 

By "making sure" she is on the same page as me will cause her to be "off the page" real fast. Girls are weird where even though they want the same thing, the want to lie to themselves that they're not easy, so they put up a little fight at first and then they're all willing to do the deed after that. This way they can lie to themselves that they didn't want to at first rather than just admitting they want the same thing that I do. It's a stupid game, but if I just gave up and sent every girl home that told me she didn't want to move too fast as I am unhooking her bra then I'd be a virgin still at 28 years old.

 

This is just how it is.

 

I like sex better than masturbation too, but sex is not really a necessity especially when you know getting it could cause harm to others. Thinking like that is part of whats wrong with our self serving society.

 

Well it's not just 100% about the sex. I've gone on a year long draught at one point in my life, and it's not just sexual frustration that settles in.....it's also decreasing self confidence, you begin to question your desireability, your ability to attract someone, you second guess yourself, you get lonely. Even when you are just hooking up with someone, you're still spending time with them, hanging out, going out and doing fun things together, and sharing a bed at night. That provides some level of companionship at times that you would not get being without for a year.

Edited September 9, 2011 by GivenUp0083

[ThsAmericanLife]

Well, if people have sex early (the man or the woman), they certainly relinquish any 'rights' regarding judgement of another person's sexuality after the fact.

 

In other words, a man can't call the girl a 'slut' if he makes a habit of having sex early as well.

 

I see this way too often... The guy gets sex early, and when things don't work out, then she's automatically slut... when it takes two to tango... not to mention his parts are attached to himself. Not her. He didn't have to go along with it.

 

Folks will see a consistent trend with me, and that I believe that both people have to take responsibility for their behavior.

[rafallus]

I see this way too often... The guy gets sex early, and when things don't work out, then she's automatically slut... when it takes two to tango... not to mention his parts are attached to himself. Not her. He didn't have to go along with it.

 

Actually, I used to have a friend, who called woman a slut, explicitly because he slept with her on a first date. Yet, in his mind he was not one, and complained, how he can't find a decent woman, because all he attracts are complete sluts.

 

Well, in a truly shocking turn of events, he turned out not to be much of friend anyway.

[AHardDaysNight]

I suspect you won't have to worry about this distinction for yourself, you'll probably be glowing. I would choose wisely the first time. Make sure you are both really into each other. Its good you are reading LS. Hopefully you'll avoid some of these pitfalls.

 

I am so horny at this point that I am no longer happy single. I frankly am desperate, and it shows.

 

If things were different, if I was younger, if I had girls actually interested in me...well, maybe then things would be better.

 

They aren't.