The Forbidden Fruit

[ja123]

I've seen this play out three ways.

 

1) They get together and people find out about it. He gets censured/judged/blackballed/something, blames her, they break up under the pressure. In addition, her reputation gets somewhat ruined.

 

2) They don't actually get together because he strings her along but never does anything that would implicate himself or cross a serious line - he likes the attention but he likes his job more.

 

3) They get together and it's secret. Eventually one of them (usually her) grows tired of all the lying and sneaking, gives him an ultimatum, and it ends.

 

I saw these three scenarios as both a student and a professor. Certainly not the only way that such things could end and I certainly don't pretend to know the details of every relationship, but I've personally seen these things evolve into drama snowballs. YMMV.

 

Very well stated, sm1tten.

 

This is what you need to be thinking about OP.

 

As tough as it is ... try to mourn the loss of your dream with this man. And move on.

[DirtyDancing]

 

As tough as it is ... try to mourn the loss of your dream with this man. And move on.

 

This is a pretty harsh statement to accept, but I will keep that in mind. I always knew that this wouldn't be easy.

[GorillaTheater]

My eyes ..... And I only clicked on this thread because I thought it was about anal sex... That'll teach me

 

It looks like the op is getting good advice

 

No kidding. I thought she was going to talk about how she fell in love with her brother or her hamster or something.

 

I don't have much to say about the dynamics of the relationship save this:

 

I'm involved in the faculty discipline process for a number of universities. If you are no longer his student, nobody with the authority to do anything about it is likely to bat an eye. If he's an adjunct, he doesn't have to worry about this effecting the tenure process, and he's probably working cheap anyways. If he's good at was he does, the department or college will want to keep him and dating a former student is not going to effect a contract renewal.

[DirtyDancing]

I'm involved in the faculty discipline process for a number of universities. If you are no longer his student, nobody with the authority to do anything about it is likely to bat an eye. If he's an adjunct, he doesn't have to worry about this effecting the tenure process, and he's probably working cheap anyways. If he's good at was he does, the department or college will want to keep him and dating a former student is not going to effect a contract renewal.

 

Wow, thank you for this information. I have been hearing that it does depend on the university but this is good to know. He is an adjunct and his career is completely unrelated to teaching anyway.. does it matter typically if the university is a private school though?

[GorillaTheater]

Wow, thank you for this information. I have been hearing that it does depend on the university but this is good to know. He is an adjunct and his career is completely unrelated to teaching anyway.. does it matter typically if the university is a private school though?

 

If it's a religious institution (i.e. Baylor or BYU), possibly. As you've heard, the reactions would probably vary from school to school, but I feel pretty confidant that the view I described above is "mainstream". Universities are sometimes nervous about these relationships from a possible sexual harrassment standpoint, especially when a prof is dating a current student. Besides the unprofessional aspects, it's just too easy to make a quid pro quo ("this for that") complaint, like grades for sex. But with former students, it's the same dynamic as coworkers not in the same chain of command dating each other: something employers are typically not going to step in to address until it looks like a problem's developing.

 

If this prof feels like it may be a problem, it's on him to share that with you and address it.

[sm1tten]

Well, my experience is somewhat different than GT's but it's good to have a different perspective. I'm talking about both public and private, non-religious-affiliated universities. I've also seen a blind-eye turned to this, and I've seen a big deal made out of it, too. But what I mostly see is just drama-drama-drama.

 

This is why I also said it depends on career trajectory. Most adjuncts don't intend to stay adjuncts, and adjuncts are often considered replaceable. It really depends on who finds out and whether they think it's a problem, as GT said. In my division, we can fraternize with graduate students only - it's not a set in stone rule, but it's acceptable policy - but we aren't supposed to date them. A year ago, a colleague in his last year of contract began a relationship with a senior who was applying to our graduate school. He didn't get fired, but he didn't get renewed and by all accounts was a good teacher. She didn't get in either. Lots of lovely gossip going around, which followed him to his next position at a much-lower ranked school, but it didn't kill either of their careers. The relationship, however, didn't survive. I'm sure there are lots of factors that could have to do with all of that, but I don't believe in coincidences. Again, YMMV. Since his career is apparently not in academia, the risk/reward for him is totally different than for me. But it also brings up the question of why he is so hesitant, then.

 

But more than anything else, he isn't actually doing or saying much that would get him into trouble OR give you much to hope for relationship-wise, in my opinion. I've more spoken to his career risk because that's what's been asked of me thus far but what worries me more is that you've become overly emotionally invested.

[DirtyDancing]

Thanks for the perspectives on this. It's helpful to hear from the source rather than from friends or people who don't have experience in this arena. He has brought this concern to my attention but yet said that it wouldn't necessarily influence him.

 

Sm1tten, you are absolutely correct in that I have become emotionally invested in this. He hasn't given a lot, but ENOUGH to give me some hope for all of this. His actions certainly don't warrant my obsessiveness however.

 

I highly doubt that I won't hear from him again though.. that's partly the problem. Just when I start to feel like it's hopeless or I'm being silly for ever thinking that this could be possible, he calls out of the blue, or keeps suggesting and hoping that we can get together again. Just prolonging it. It's very frustrating because I do like him so much... it would almost be easier if he just completely backed off if he wasn't interested, although I have a strong, strong feeling that is just not the case. It's what my gut has been telling me for months and months now, and what he's told me and shown me since. I'm not crazy, I'm really not... I have absolutely NO DOUBT that we have a mutual romantic interest. None. So....

 

If the only risk is a possible ethical stigma but not serious repercussions, and the fact that my crazy ex could find out and blow the whistle (which at this point, he's already moved on and I could care less by the way), am I naive in still wondering what the hell is holding him back? He's clearly conflicted here.

[DirtyDancing]

Well, after not hearing a peep after his suggesting that we talk this week, I'm starting to begin to let this thing go the best I can. It's been so unresolved, and it's that which makes it so difficult.. I will always have that memory of the one night we met up which exceeded any expectation I could possibly have. I just can't forget it. It felt like the fantasy was becoming a reality..

 

It's very disappointing that he's holding back while I know for sure there was something there all along; but as much as I try to figure out why, I just can't. I don't want to keep pursuing or try to get that next 'date'. At this point, it's been 2 months since we have seen each other.. but have had somewhat regular contact since then. But clearly I have more of a sense of urgency, and I feel humiliated and rejected so I think I give up.

 

I wasn't looking for this at all, the opportunity just presented itself to me and this has been 8 months in the works. I really put myself out there, which is something I never have done before, and took a big risk by contacting him 2 months after the class had ended; a part of me worried he wouldn't remember me or that I misread him, but as he proved, that just wasn't true. My worst fear has always been that I would have to face him on campus if all of this ended in rejection.

 

I know there are many other guys out there who would probably like to take me on a date, and who wouldn't want to prolong seeing me for any reason! And for some reason, which baffles me, he just doesn't. I am losing my patience here, and I can keep the memory but I don't need to keep the hope. Whatever his issue really is, his failure to act and follow through is just not enough to keep me interested for much longer. If miraculously he does come through, of course I will reciprocate, but if not, I'm done.

 

Ah, the joys of being single and meeting someone you really like.. and all the fears and insecurities that go along with it.. I didn't miss this part at all!

[DirtyDancing]

Well, I am trying to accept this situation and am having a really tough time doing so. I think I am just feeling pretty vulnerable in general and was, I hate to admit this, starting to fall for this man so it makes it difficult to let things go. What is so hard for me is that it feels very unresolved.. my head is telling me one thing but my heart is telling me something I cannot ignore. Nothing has happened in my situation since my last post. Nothing. I am beyond confused. I feel like an idiot for putting myself out there and taking the risk that I did. I was infatuated with him and it truly seemed that things had been building mutually for all that time. All I got was a little tease of what it could be like with him. I was SO SURE that there was something there, and that the other obstacles wouldn't get in the way. I know this sounds kind of crazy, especially since I barely know him, but this has been something I cannot let go. I have been in love before, had crushes, been in serious relationships.. but I have NEVER felt the chemistry, connection, and draw as I have now. It's hard to understand and even harder to accept that he hasn't seen me since, even though I know for a fact he was absolutely smitten with me and has continued to say that he wants to see me again. I just don't understand. This has been building for 8 months, and to forget it seems impossible.

 

I guess I need some support, and my friends are tired of hearing about this... I just feel hopeless.

 

I know I need to be open to meeting other people now and putting myself out there; I'm just at the point that dating seems like a waste of time. I'm going into my late twenties, I've got my career path set, I'm attractive, I'm intelligent and capable. What's wrong with me that I am absolutely dateless?! I haven't done this for awhile and it sucks.

[DirtyDancing]

Erotomania?! Seriously???

No, that only makes me feel worse than I already do. Um, yeah... I did not mistake the signals. Believe me, they were very clear.

 

Answer me this people:

Why did he agree to meet me in the first place? Why did he make me feel like he was gaga over me if I was making this all up in my head? And most importantly, why would he call me and want to keep a connection at all? It's very easy to say, "Sorry, I can't." He's not getting any attention from me at all, so how the hell is he gaining anything by "stringing me along" ?? I don't call him, I don't talk to him except when he initiates it, so what the heck?

I'm sure he liked the attention he was getting from me, and to be honest, I also enjoyed the attention he was giving me as well. So, what's the big deal about that? What transpired was absolutely electric and profound. You don't have chemistry from only one person. It takes two, and it was fire. I refuse to believe that all of this meant nothing and was in my head. I just cannot believe that.

 

Come on, any hopeless romantics out there?

Edited September 25, 2011 by DirtyDancing

[daphne]

Come on, any hopeless romantics out there?

 

Hopeless romantics that have been through the unrequited love phase become pragmatic. I don't think you have a choice but to let this guy go. I do not think he's coming back. I think the drama from your ex was a big factor. Also, you come across as selfish in your need for him to do what you want to do (say yes to going out with you) despite his misgivings about the entire situation. He was asking for time, so you could get your house in order and you have pressured him multiple times to convince him that you should move at full speed ahead. He's going to listen to his own reason, since you do not sound terribly reasonable in all of this. You seem to be a bit frenzied about attaining this man. I'm sure he can sense it.

 

I think you have pushed him too much, and he has lost any attraction that he may have had. It's a turn off for anyone when the other person's interest level is much higher. Yours was higher. The only thing you can do is distance yourself and move on. In the event that he comes back, you need to have some self control. This type of push does not actually draw anyone in. It has the opposite affect. I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer. But I think you need to prepare yourself, and learn what you could do better in case you go through this again.

[Lucky_One]

What is so hard for me is that it feels very unresolved.. my head is telling me one thing but my heart is telling me something I cannot ignore.

 

You need to listen to your head. There is nothing here to BE resolved. There was NOTHING tangible except for one meeting for drinks.

 

I am beyond confused.

 

You can stop with the confusion. There is nothing to say except that he doesn't want to see you.

 

I know this sounds kind of crazy, especially since I barely know him, but this has been something I cannot let go. I have been in love before, had crushes, been in serious relationships.. but I have NEVER felt the chemistry, connection, and draw as I have now. It's hard to understand and even harder to accept that he hasn't seen me since, even though I know for a fact he was absolutely smitten with me and has continued to say that he wants to see me again.

 

You do not know him. You don't know if he 1) has a GF that you just don't know about or 2) has a student every semester that he does this with or 3) enjoys the ego stroking and knows how to play you so that you stay infatuated with him or 4) was looking for a BJ and you weren't forward enough so he decided to not waste his time with you or 5) really didn't like you after getting to know you better and he doesn't want to hurt your feelings or 6) thinks that you were cheating on your BF and he doesn't like cheaters or 7) thinks that your BF is a kook and might come kill him or 8) is gay but thought he might try a hetero-sexual fling but can't bring himself to seal the deal because vaginas disgust him.

 

You do NOT know for a fact that he was absolutely smitten with you. When a man is ABSOLUTELY SMITTEN with a girl (and don't forget - there was no BF drama at this point in the quasi-relationship), he tries more than touching her neck.

 

It is time to move on. He knows without a doubt that you are interested. I know without a doubt that he is not interested enough in you to set an actual date. It's time for you to realize that, too, and stop romanticizing someone who is just a guy.

 

 

From baggage reclaim -" They're just not that special, and you're not that desperate." Are you?

[DirtyDancing]

Also, you come across as selfish in your need for him to do what you want to do (say yes to going out with you) despite his misgivings about the entire situation. He was asking for time, so you could get your house in order and you have pressured him multiple times to convince him that you should move at full speed ahead. He's going to listen to his own reason, since you do not sound terribly reasonable in all of this. You seem to be a bit frenzied about attaining this man. I'm sure he can sense it.

 

I don't believe I have pressured him in any way to move full speed ahead. I haven't acted desperately, I don't call or text him in a way that would be even remotely close to pressuring. I don't pursue him; it was one time I asked him to meet, and then the only reason I reached out once or twice after that is because he had called me on his own initiative and said that he wanted to see me again and that he wanted to tell me all of these things in person. I actually made it clear to him that I wasn't looking to jump into anything with him so soon, I just wanted to get to know him better. And honestly, that is the truth.

[DirtyDancing]

I'm not able to quote Lucky One's comment, but honestly, most of that made me laugh. Right that I don't know if he has someone else, but I don't think he would agree to meet me and take me back to his place if he did. He would probably also have used that as an excuse by now too. It's a possibility that has crossed my mind though. And of course, my ex emailing him was probably what really freaked him out. But his emails weren't threatening, it was just way out of line for him to even do that. Also, I have to address your comment about being gay! No, absolutely not gay, no friggin way.

 

He did not "only" touch my neck. He didn't try to put the moves on me (which I appreciated) but he put his arms around me and held me for a long time, kissed my face, held my hand, put his arm around me while we were out, touched me in a way that was not inappropriate but definitely not just friendly. Please. There are gentlemen and nice guys out there, you know!! He did bring me back to his place that night. He offered me to stay with him and offered his second bedroom to me. I spent some time there but I did say I needed to go, and he proceeded to tell me what he COULD do if I would have stayed .. He told me that he COULD throw me over his shoulder and take me into his bedroom and do bad things to me. I guess I didn't mention this part in my original post!! And how he COULD spend the rest of the night kissing me. But.. he didn't. He thought about it. If he was trying to get sex from me, that was his chance to try. But I would never have done it then. And if that's all he wanted from me, he would have seen me again to try and get me in bed. I don't think the measure of a man liking you has anything to do with him trying on the first time to have sex with you. That definitely could have happened, we knew that and we were both thinking it, but it didn't happen. He also told me later on that he thought I was out of his league and that my only flaw was that I smoke. Sounds like he thinks highly of me, and he did treat me that way.

 

And about him spending time with me and liking me less, um.. no. After getting to know me, he completely warmed up to me as the night went on, physically and verbally. He told me at the end of the night that he wanted to see me again. People don't say they want to see someone again unless they really do.

 

And.. I think if he let the ex thing freak him out so much that his feelings changed so drastically, then like my guy friend says, he's a p*ssy.

 

I know, I need to prepare for the worst here; things could have changed in the last month. But.. what about this: he liked or likes me a lot ( I could tell he did, I felt it building for months and it was totally validated in person), but wants to give it sufficient time to make sure the ex factor is gone completely, (which it is), and not throw himself into the fire of being hurt by risking being my rebound. And that would explain why the phone calls and saying he wants to see me and talk to me in person about things, but not a regular constant contact, but just enough to let me know he wants to keep something going. Hmm?? Is that a possibility or am I really an "erotomaniac"??

Edited September 26, 2011 by DirtyDancing

[DirtyDancing]

I have come to a personal resolution about this.. and will close this post: no matter the reason WHY, ex, school, me, whatever.. I don't have the time to put in any more mental energy into this. The ball is in his court, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. I went after what I wanted, didn't cross any boundaries by being obsessive or crazy (well outwardly (!), I was honest, and there is nothing wrong with that. I know I didn't throw myself at him or push him. I think I handled it very well, actually. It was hard to take that risk by putting myself out there, but I will never regret it.

 

I didn't see him as in a position of authority; I saw him as more of my peer. I just thought, he's a man, I'm a woman, we're attracted to each other, it's that simple. I guess under normal circumstances this would have very likely developed into dating.

 

So, thank you everyone for your input; I have to say my friends tell me the complete opposite of the advice I received here, so that's interesting. But.. I'm just going to let it be.

Edited September 27, 2011 by DirtyDancing

[Quiet Storm]

I personally feel that you have read too much into his behavior from the very beginning.

 

It seems like you have given him countless opportunities to pursue you if he wanted, but he is not putting in any effort at all.

 

I think most men, who feel such strong chemistry with a woman, would make getting to know her a top priority. A man that is clearly into you, would not let an old boyfriend slow his pursuit. In fact, competition usually ups the ante.

 

Understand though, that flattery and admiration are huge ego boosts for men. Even though he may not want a relationship with you, he will happily lap up any attention you give him. In other words, he will take it or leave it.

 

He told me that he COULD throw me over his shoulder and take me into his bedroom and do bad things to me. I guess I didn't mention this part in my original post!! And how he COULD spend the rest of the night kissing me. But.. he didn't.

 

You have to ask yourself... why not? If the chemistry was so strong, if he was truly interested, then why wouldn't he spend the rest of the night kissing you? If he was controlling his desire because he is a gentleman, he would have followed that night up with more dates with you, IMO.

 

I would have to conclude that his lack of effort is a sign that he is not that into you.

[DirtyDancing]

I think most men, who feel such strong chemistry with a woman, would make getting to know her a top priority. A man that is clearly into you, would not let an old boyfriend slow his pursuit. In fact, competition usually ups the ante.

 

You have to ask yourself... why not? If the chemistry was so strong, if he was truly interested, then why wouldn't he spend the rest of the night kissing you? If he was controlling his desire because he is a gentleman, he would have followed that night up with more dates with you, IMO.

 

I would have to conclude that his lack of effort is a sign that he is not that into you.

 

I have to agree with the first statement, and he did make a concerted effort to get to know me actually, it just stalled. But as far as competition upping the ante, I can personally say that I would back the heck off if the tables were turned. I would stay back until time had passed that I felt was sufficient for things to cool down. That's what I would do. I wouldn't want to get involved but I would establish a connection, which he did say he wanted to do and has, even though it's been much less than I had hoped.

 

And he didn't spend the rest of the night kissing me because I told him I wanted to go! Yes, of course I would have wanted to do that, but because I said I needed to go, he wasn't about to push that on me. he did try to get me to stay.. he made it sound very enticing if I did. And yes, he was controlling his desire but he did tell me specifically that he didn't want to rush me into anything but that he wanted to do those things and spend more time with me. I realize those are only words though. And he absolutely did not just stop liking me because I didn't sleep with him. Anyone who says that because I turned down the opportunity he thought he didn't have time to waste on me because he didn't get sex is ridiculous. In fact, it works the opposite way for the good men out there.

 

The reason why I was choosing to close this post (even though I plan to read the responses) is because people who know the kind of person I am know that I am a very genuine person and have a very strong sense of intuition. This is the very first time in my life that I have had such a strong conviction; to try to convince myself that I misread or that he was just not that into me goes against everything I've been feeling in my core for many many months, even now.

 

OF COURSE if I wasn't feeling these doubts and insecurities, I would never post on anonymously on a forum to receive outsiders' perspectives.. but the fact is it's only hurt me to read these responses. It actually makes me have more doubts. I understand a dose of reality and not giving false hope is the right thing to do, and I appreciate these efforts, I just cannot bring myself to believe that he's just not interested. It's like trying to convince myself of something I know isn't true. Yes, his lack of aggressive effort, the sporadic communication and loose suggestions of seeing me makes me have a lot of doubts. But I also can't ignore my gut feeling about this. There's something else going on here and this is not adding up.

 

Call me crazy, an erotomaniac, or delusional.. I feel the way I feel deep down and that's just too hard to ignore. If I don't ever get the answer I was hoping for, I can admit for the first time in my life that my gut feeling was incorrect. But I DON'T know the answer yet. I have pieces of facts gathered from 8 months that don't logically fit together. Mixed messages. Conflict between words and actions. It's not my problem, it's his. I'll end by saying again, if he lets these outside circumstances derail him from what he seemed to really, really want to pursue... then he's just not the man I thought he was, and definitely not worth my time.

[FitChick]

He has another woman (or women) in his life so that explains why you only hear from him intermittently. It takes a lot of energy to string more than one person along.

[DirtyDancing]

He has another woman (or women) in his life so that explains why you only hear from him intermittently.

 

This makes the most sense. But I am tired of trying to figure it out.

[ChessPieceFace]

Screw the relationship for now, you should just turn your story into a romance novel. OH MAN WALL OF TEXT. I stopped reading about halfway through.

[DirtyDancing]

And a romance novel it would be... and kept on the bookshelf.

[DirtyDancing]

That's funny, the romance novel reference..

 

There was a guy that was trying to pursue me recently in the middle of all of this; he insisted he was ok with just being friends, so I gave him a little info on this subject I write about now.. and he referred to it as my romance novel. He would ask me periodically, "how's the romance novel coming?" and the last thing I said was that it was on the bookshelf. So true.

 

Ha, this story really is worthy of being on the pages of a tragic romance novel! (and I've already written most of it)! How pathetic..

[ChessPieceFace]

"The Forbidden Fruit" is a good name also, probably taken but you can just adapt it a bit so that it is an original title. Also, if it becomes a best-seller, I request 1% of the net profit for giving you the suggestion. I am really broke and could use the money.

[DirtyDancing]

I think I like the idea of turning my story into a romance novel more than I like the idea of continuing to pine over this man. Thanks for the suggestion!

[DirtyDancing]

I wish I had an ending for this romance novel.. it seems so strange that something that was CLEARLY very intense and obviously LASTING for months and months (even months after the class had ended and we hadn't seen each other or spoken) that it could build and build and grow and intensify.... and then nothing. Talk about anticlimactic in literally every sense of the word!!!

 

I am resolved to let this be and move forward, and stop wasting my mental energy on this anymore, since I've been doing that for way too long now, but I still am so unresolved. I know his lack of effort should be a clear indication of his lack of interest, but there are just some things that keep at me and I can't forget them, even things that have happened recently.

 

Yes, I think what has been nagging at me the most is is the anticlimax of all of this. It was like seeing him that night was the peak of what had been building between us literally for 6 months, and then.. the traces of it stayed around, and now lately... poof! Gone with the wind... ????

Is this my ending of this story? Really?! What kind of 'romance novel' would that be?! Half of one, I guess...

 

*sigh*