The Forbidden Fruit

[DirtyDancing]

Hi everyone,

I have a very delicate situation and could use some feedback:

 

I am in my last year in college; I'm in my late 20's and am finally finishing my degree. Long story short, one of my professors from this past semester (who as I later found out is only a few years older than me and is only adjunct faculty) and I shared a very undeniable chemistry while I was in his class. It was never inappropriate, not even close, but it was hard to ignore, and honestly really exciting. On the last day when I turned in my final exam, we talked for a good 15 minutes. We coincidentally also work in the same field and he told me if I ever come to his division for work, I should come see him there.

I waited almost 2 months after the grades were in, and I couldn't forget about him and I knew it would be a huge risk but I was compelled to contact him. I told him that I really enjoyed talking with him and that I wouldn't have an excuse to come out to his division, but if he ever wanted to get a drink sometime, to let me know. He responded immediately and we ended up meeting the following week. I had spent months fantasizing about him, a crush had turned into much more at that point.

So, we met and I have never been so nervous in my entire life. The evening went above and beyond any expectations I could possibly have. I wanted to get to know him, nothing more, but I knew there was a mutual interest so I knew what it meant by us meeting. We had a really good time, it was so easy to be around him. It was unbelievable. Nothing happened, nothing at all... but he did make it very clear to me that he was interested; at one point he put his arm around me while we were walking, he held out his hand to me, he insisted on paying for everything, we went all around that night and 6 hours later, he was holding me and touching my earrings and neck. When we said goodbye, he held me again and kissed my cheek. I was totally overwhelmed. He was not inappropriate at all, and did NOT try to put the moves on me, BUT he did make a lot of excuses to touch me and sit close to me that night. It didn't make me feel weird, I could tell he wasn't trying to get anything from me by the way he was treating me. I felt incredible. He told me he wanted to see me again and he thought I was so beautiful and incredible and that he thought I was out of his league.

First of all, this man is extremely successful and accomplished for his young age, and has a very reputable career aside from being a part time lecturer at my school. He is single of course, gorgeous, successful, driven, smart, funny, and as I found out, a genuinely nice guy all around. To this day I feel he's out of my league. So.. that was in July. My class had ended in May.

Aside from the other juicy details of what has transpired since then, and there's been some significant developments, we have yet to see each other again. We have talked several times over the phone or text, and he always loosely makes plans with me but has yet to actually make a date.

I realize that there is a taboo against our relationship, even though I will never take his class again and he will never be my teacher again... and I know he was concerned about that because he mentioned that a couple of times in the beginning. Now it's starting to worry me though. He did tell me that I had the highest grade in his class! (which I absolutely legitimately earned.)

I need to include a very important part of the story before I continue...

While I was in his class, I was in the end of a long term relationship that had been slowly dying for awhile. I need to stress that when it came to the point in the evening on my night with the former professor, I had to be honest with him and I did tell him that I was going through a breakup and that we were still technically living together but I had been staying with friends and family until one of us moved out, which would have been in the following couple of weeks. At the end of that night, he asked me when I was moving and to let him know when I do.

Once I started having feelings for someone else even though I barely knew him, I realized I needed to get out of my old relationship. Easier said than done. I told my ex that I wanted to leave, I needed to be on my own. It was hard, and I was conflicted. Unfortunately, I was impetuous and sent that email to the professor while still in the middle of a breakup...I was still technically living with my ex although we were no longer a couple. I was staying with friends and family and I felt my ex and I were at a mutual understanding that the relationship was over. I was weak. I couldn't stop thinking about him, and even after almost 2 months, the draw was so strong I felt I had to act or else I would regret it forever. Unfortunately this "meeting" backfired on me when my jealous ex boyfriend found out. He went crazy and got into all my email accounts and found the evidence. He lost his mind and emailed this man. I was absolutely humiliated. It wasn't bad or threatening, it was just that I am a wonderful woman, just discovering my potential, and if there was anything that he could do to encourage that, please do so. He didn't seem too fazed by it but was clearly concerned. Again, he made a loose invitation that he didn't follow through on. As it turns out, my ex sent a SECOND email that played on his sympathy apparently; I found out it said something like "please don't see her for the next couple of weeks".. I didn't find out about this second email until later. So I was pretty confused as to why he was continuing to contact me and making these loose plans for the future with me, why he wasn't actually setting a time to see me again.

After that second email, he did call me and we talked. He didn't mention it at the time, but told me that it sounded like i was coming from a long term relationship and it wouldn't be such a good idea to jump into seeing him right away (which is true). I had a lot going on last month emotionally and with my moving, other changes, that he told me that we should keep in contact, I can call him, he'll call me, we can go do this, that, etc. So of course, a week later, I asked him if he was free later on that week. He said he had something going on with work but can we play it by ear. That night, he apologized said he was still working and asked for a raincheck. I said definitely, let me know when is a good time for you. Two and a half weeks went by. I was confused as all hell. I wasn't sure if it was the fact that my ex had contacted him or that he was holding back his feelings because of the nature of our meeting. I didn't call or text him ONCE in those weeks. A couple of days ago, I had just moved into my new place and he had known that I was moving around the first of this month. He called me after 10 p.m. just out of the blue. He asked me very specifically about whether things were truly over between me and my ex who he referred to as my "old roommate". He told me about the second email and said that he asked him not to see me for a couple of weeks and that he thought that my ex might have been trying to get me back. He wanted to know if that was true. I reassured him that was completely water under the bridge and that I have absolutely moved on, and yes, things were better. (I am much happier and I would never go back to my ex by the way... no doubt.) I tried to steer the conversation towards him but he was very concise about what he needed to know about my situation (!) I told him that I've been kind of confused as to why I hadn't heard back from him in the past few weeks (after his raincheck offer).. and he said he knows, but we can talk about that more in detail the next time we see each other. That was a week ago now, and nothing yet....

I have been consumed by thoughts of him, I have never felt this way about anyone before, and I think his actions show how much he is willing to wait for me. My question is... is he just being a gentleman by continuing this torment of not seeing each other again.. it's just a date, we barely know each other anyway... why is he waiting? What's the harm in just meeting? He's always been the one at the end of each and every conversation to be sure to tell me he wants to see me again.

Thoughts??? Am I just being impatient? This has been building up (at least for me) since January when I first saw him in class. I cannot stand this torment any longer. Now knowing how he feels about me is making it even harder to wait!

And now I'm starting to worry about the whole student/former teacher thing.. I am still a student there but he will never be my teacher again. Plus, he is only there once a year teaching one class so it's unlikely that I will see him on campus next year.

I still find it hard to believe all this has actually happened.. it feels unreal but in a good way.

[AHardDaysNight]

Wow, block of text. Umm...

 

Well, what I could gather is that he has a serious crush on you, and you have a serious crush on him. You both are unavailable to each other, so it's the "Romeo and Juliet" scenario.

 

I'd try backing off from this. Or maybe someone else can share some of their thoughts on this?

[DirtyDancing]

Ha, I apologize for the long entry.. I love to write.. helps me to process things. Feels like the star crossed lovers thing to me too, but I feel this is far more than a crush...

[rafallus]

No, it's okay that you write long, but would be better if you separated paragraphs with blank lines. Otherwise you have wall of text looking too intimidating too read.

 

Too bad, here editing is disabled, after somebody else replies after you.

[Cee]

I read your story and I have some impressions.

 

1. You are idealizing this professor guy too much. There is nothing inappropriate with dating this guy. For one thing, he isn't your teacher anymore and he's not regular faculty (he's visiting) so you won't see him on campus. You have made him into this godlike figure who is so gorgeous and accomplished. Sometimes seeing someone on a lectern will make them seem more authoritative, but he's simply a man. You must come down to earth if you want to date him. Breathe and try to take it slow.

 

2. Because you just broke up with your boyfriend, taking it slow is a good idea anyway. The email drama often will poison the well in most budding relationships. However, you have made it sound like you and the professor have open communication and he understands. Since you finally ended it with your boyfriend because you wanted to be absolutely free to date the professor, you may think the stakes are higher. They aren't. Remember that the professor is a guy you want to date, not the second coming.

 

3. The professor might ultimately not date you at all, but simply enjoy your attention from afar. The class ended in May and now it is September. I think it's fine to still hold out some hope, but try to maintain focus on this semester and everything else in your life. At some point, you may want to move on and date others.

 

I'm not being negative about your crush, but sensible. It's not good to put all your emotional eggs in one basket and do your best to maintain perspective. Good luck.

[TBH]

i dont think the fact that you were his student need affect anything in the future, especially considering how close your ages are.

 

He's doing the right thing by trying to make sure you are not wanting him as a rebound. He's clearly smitten with you and would obviously hate to start a relationship with you only to find out its not as genuine as he would like it to be.

 

I think if I were you I would keep sending him messages, not hassling of course but to let him know you really want to make a go of it but not in a desperate 'now or never' type way. Just be there as a friend and gradually he should come to see your feelings are genuine.

 

He's worried and cautious and rightly so.

 

I would give it some more time, obviously dont see anyone else until you know how it will pan out and just see where it takes you both.

 

like previous poster said, it does sound like you have him way up there on a pedestal and even though you would probably be attracted to him if you had been single when you met, the whole 'forbidden fruit' thing will undoubtedly make such a person highly attractive as your emotions were/are running very high.

 

take some time for yourself and hopefully things will fall into place.

[DirtyDancing]

Thanks for the insight.. I agree, this may take some time, and I know why he's been so cautious. I have to say that makes me like him even more that he is showing me this respect. I admit I have had him on a pedestal and have definitely invested a lot mentally into this. My concern is now the taboo of our relationship, even though we will never be in that position again.

 

I have been wanting to send him a message, today in fact, I'm just not even sure where to start.. I want to convey that I am anxious to see him but not be the one to suggest to meet... I am not used to having to do that and honestly am a little old fashioned in thinking the man should be the one to pursue. That's just me.

[FitChick]

Long story short

 

Too late!

[country_gurl]

Thanks for the insight.. I agree, this may take some time, and I know why he's been so cautious. I have to say that makes me like him even more that he is showing me this respect. I admit I have had him on a pedestal and have definitely invested a lot mentally into this. My concern is now the taboo of our relationship, even though we will never be in that position again.

 

I have been wanting to send him a message, today in fact, I'm just not even sure where to start.. I want to convey that I am anxious to see him but not be the one to suggest to meet... I am not used to having to do that and honestly am a little old fashioned in thinking the man should be the one to pursue. That's just me.

 

How can you be so certain that his caution has anything to do with 'respect for you' and not a strong desire not to ruin his own reputation?

[DirtyDancing]

How can you be so certain that his caution has anything to do with 'respect for you' and not a strong desire not to ruin his own reputation?

 

I am not certain, that's the problem... I know there is an element of the latter as well; however just judging from his actions I have to believe that he doesn't want to just swoop in and rush me into anything. In fact he told me that on that night. He said that he didn't want to "rush" me into anything. And the fact that I am sure that he is really interested in me makes me believe that. The other part kind of pales in comparison, in my view.

[sm1tten]

1. doesn't matter that he's only an adjunct and it doesn't matter if you never take a class with him again - if anyone finds out, his reputation is effed and he may be subject to penalty. So,yes, that is going to hold him back. And while I get that you are close in ages and nothing happened during the class, his superiors won't see it as romantic at all. And that will probably follow him wherever he goes.

 

[on the flip side, I have an acquaintance who is marrying her TA and quite a few professors marry theirs, so it's not an absolute barrier. Just a caution.]

 

2. Your ex and the emailing is dramatic and rather off-putting. It's bad enough that you were still in this relationship when you began having feelings for the other guy because emotionally, you were all over the map... but you've also got this other party who has inserted himself somewhat into your budding relationship.

 

I think that if you are going to have to wait for him to make a move, and you may very well be waiting a long time and it may never come. He's clearly uncomfortable with certain things and he's taking it slow. Too slow for you, maybe, but you don't want to initiate anything that would speed this up, so you're basically stuck. To be honest though, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

[torn_curtain]

I think the most likely explanation is that he's worried your crazy ex will out him to the other faculty if he starts dating you. This might explain why he is hesitant to give you the reason over the phone and why he says he'll explain in person.

[DirtyDancing]

Just an update: we did speak tonight. After he had called me late in the evening last week to ask specifically whether my relationship with the ex was truly over, I decided to send a friendly message today, just saying I was thinking about him, and he did respond, saying he hoped we could see each other soon, maybe we could get a drink. I was a little put off, he keeps making these loose plans for the future and responds positively and has initiated contact with me frequently but yet nothing has come of it since that night in July.

 

I get the reason he's cautious and not jumping the gun, I really do.. I just think that he would nip it in the bud and tell me he likes me but he can't see me if that were the case. I think these things that have been obstacles are definitely there, but not enough to push him away... a reminder, this has been building for several months, so the fact that something is still there is significant to me.

 

So, I said I would love to, asked when he was free and he said this week is busy for him because he has visitors coming in for the weekend but let's touch base next week when things settle down. Ok... so... ever since the beginning, he has wanted to keep a connection and has made it a point to do so. Happening very slowly but the connection is established.

 

I think that he's not wanting to overstep anything by being the one to initiate but only to SUGGEST what he wants so that the ball is in my court. That's next week. Now what?!

[DirtyDancing]

I am so incredibly frustrated. Patience is not my virtue. What makes it so difficult is that I KNOW he is interested in me romantically. If he was not, then I think I could just let it go. But his regular efforts to keep the connection are giving me some mixed signals. When you really like someone, and it's real and mutual, what ever happened to throwing caution to the wind and just GOING for it?! It is impetuous but some things just can't be denied.. and believe me I've tried to deny my feelings for a long time on this one.

 

I also think that it's very indicative that he called me just to ask if my past relationship was truly over. No one would really care about that after weeks had gone by unless he wanted a fair chance with me. I don't want him to be my rebound either. And I agree with a previous poster that he wants to see if my feelings are genuine and I'm not just running to him as a crutch. I get that, and it makes a lot of sense.

 

So, any advice as to what I need to do next regarding next week when he said we should talk? Wait and see?!

[AHardDaysNight]

Too late!

 

I thought it was "Damn your eyes"..."too late!"

[DirtyDancing]

Any thoughts? I am really struggling with this one...

I even went on a friendly date the other night with a guy that really likes me, but there is no chemistry, just a good conversation. And the whole time I couldn't stop thinking about this man..and doubts come up, I feel embarrassed for ever being so bold, unsure about where he's coming from, frustrated, and even insecure about myself!

 

I guess I am hoping an objective outsider would tell me to give up and let it go if it seemed pointless. I'm so wrapped up in it mentally I can't even think clearly about it anymore. I hate the fact that I can't forget about all that happened.

 

[sm1tten]

I mean, honestly? I would have let this go a while ago. I think that you are building this all up way more in your head than has been borne out by his actions, and I think that he is just going to keep giving you small crumbs then putting you off.

 

And as a fellow academic I would have advised him months ago to not even go there with you, frankly.

[DirtyDancing]

Ouch.

I appreciate your honesty.. but what does he gain from giving me breadcrumbs and getting nothing in return? Why put forth the effort? It would be very easy to say no, I'm sorry, I can't do this, etc. That has never happened after all this time. Why call me at all and late at night, why keep saying he wants to see me?

 

I disagree with the taboo. This isn't high school and I am no longer in his class.

[DirtyDancing]

And as a fellow academic I would have advised him months ago to not even go there with you, frankly.

 

I have something to add to this comment: several weeks ago while we were talking on the phone, he told me that he did bring up a "loose hypothetical" to people at the school and they did advise him that it's not a good idea. However, he added that that wouldn't necessarily influence him.

So... apparently he did bring up the idea of dating me to his peers or superiors.. because he was thinking about it(!!)... and although it is frowned upon, it's not a dealbreaker; that's what I got from what he was telling me. I was very surprised that he would even inquire of it; it was obviously on his mind.. and I wasn't even thinking as far ahead as dating at that point.. I barely know him!

My own grandmother married her boss, my grandpa. I have a friend who knows someone who married her former college professor. This happens more often than I realized. What is the big deal, really?

I earned the highest grade in the class legitimately! We are a few years apart and in the same profession. Under any other circumstance, it would be a no-brainer. Why should all of this be such an obstacle? We are human; we are only human.

[Art_Critic]

My eyes ..... And I only clicked on this thread because I thought it was about anal sex... That'll teach me

 

It looks like the op is getting good advice

[sm1tten]

Why put forth the effort? It would be very easy to say no, I'm sorry, I can't do this, etc. That has never happened after all this time. Why call me at all and late at night, why keep saying he wants to see me?

 

Attention. It's also exciting and thrilling, I imagine, for both sides. Personally I don't have the patience for all this start and stop and words without action. Like I said, you seem to be idealising this a great deal, but now that it's "next week" perhaps you will get some more concrete idea of what you are dealing with.

 

And to be further honest with you, I see this happening from time to time at my university between young professors and students. I have yet to see it end well.

 

What is the big deal, really?

The big deal is ethics/professionalism. I personally don't really care one way or the other but professionally, it's an ethics problem. As I said earlier in your thread, it does happen that these lines are crossed and sometimes there are repercussions, sometimes not. A lot of it depends on where you are teaching, what your career trajectory is, and when - this was a lot more acceptable a few decades ago than it is now. Where he works/you go to school, there may be no formal guidelines stating that students and professors can't fraternize, with even looser standards for adjuncts, but rest assured that his colleagues will judge him (and you). At my university, this could be a career-killer.

[DirtyDancing]

Attention. It's also exciting and thrilling, I imagine, for both sides. Personally I don't have the patience for all this start and stop and words without action. Like I said, you seem to be idealising this a great deal, but now that it's "next week" perhaps you will get some more concrete idea of what you are dealing with.

 

And to be further honest with you, I see this happening from time to time at my university between young professors and students. I have yet to see it end well.

 

 

Thanks, Sm1tten. I do understand the ethical dilemma. Now that it is "next week" I'm not banking on anything, but it would be nice to get some answers if anything for closure at the least. Obviously that's not what I want, but I am definitely prepared for that possibility.

 

Just curious, how did things "not end well"?

[sm1tten]

I've seen this play out three ways.

 

1) They get together and people find out about it. He gets censured/judged/blackballed/something, blames her, they break up under the pressure. In addition, her reputation gets somewhat ruined.

 

2) They don't actually get together because he strings her along but never does anything that would implicate himself or cross a serious line - he likes the attention but he likes his job more.

 

3) They get together and it's secret. Eventually one of them (usually her) grows tired of all the lying and sneaking, gives him an ultimatum, and it ends.

 

I saw these three scenarios as both a student and a professor. Certainly not the only way that such things could end and I certainly don't pretend to know the details of every relationship, but I've personally seen these things evolve into drama snowballs. YMMV.

[DirtyDancing]

Before I start feeling anxious about why I haven't heard from him yet, it is helpful to read someone's perspective that has seen this first-hand.

It is a little disappointing to believe that he'd just be stringing me along. I would hate for that to be the case.

 

Doesn't seem like that kind of guy though to do that. He did tell me that he has had girls from his class email him after the class had ended and asked him out. He said that he had never agreed to meet anyone before. I asked him what he told them and he said that he told them I'm sorry, I can't, good luck. When I asked why he made the exception for me he gave me a very meaningful look, while sitting an inch away from me, and said it was because I have so much more to offer (!) So he knew by agreeing to meet with me that there was a romantic interest. He didn't seem to think the "issue" was insurmountable. If it wasn't for all the drama that surfaced with my ex, I'm sure we would have seen each other again by now.

 

Most of the time I feel insecure and humiliated that I may have misread him this whole time and that I should never have initiated anything. Now this is becoming depressing to think that it could just be a silly passing fantasy that can never really become a reality. All I have to go by is one night. I don't think I can ever forget it though...it has literally been torment.

 

If all he's after is the attention and ego boost he gets from talking over the phone with me, that seems pretty shallow. If he really wanted my attention, he would have met me by now. I don't think he gains anything at all from periodically talking on the phone and telling me he wants to see me.

 

I am willing to admit that this may never happen because it CAN'T in his mind. That's the problem. Also, I realize how insecure I've been feeling about the way he feels... and now it has come to a sort of FEAR of humiliation if this never comes through. All I want is one more chance to talk in person; what's wrong with that?! Why wouldn't he want a harmless second meeting? It's not like we're jumping into anything by just meeting again. What's the worst thing that could happen? We get in over our heads? Or on the flip side, he could explain to me all the reasons why this could never be. Sh*t.

 

Sometimes I wish I had never taken the risk. Now the repercussions of the risk are too real.

Edited September 13, 2011 by DirtyDancing

[ja123]

No, it's okay that you write long, but would be better if you separated paragraphs with blank lines. Otherwise you have wall of text looking too intimidating too read.

 

Too bad, here editing is disabled, after somebody else replies after you.

 

I agree with the above.