Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying... ... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her. Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent. Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her. I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on. Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life. Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children. I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness.
woinlove Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I think people are only as stuck as they want to be. He can hire a lawyer who can protect his interests according to the law. As for turning the kids against him, that does happen sometimes, by both BS and WS. A friend's W cheated, left the M for the OM, got custody and alimony as a SAHM, and turned the kids against the father. However, as the children matured and were able to make up their own minds, they redeveloped a very positive relationship with their father. So things often do sort out with time. I wouldn't stay in a bad M for that reason.
jwi71 Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying... Bullshyte. If he wants to leave he will. If not he won't. There's a price he has to pay either way and he is choosing what is least costly. You'll ignore this completely and miss that it is 100% true. ... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her. So? Did you two think she would roll over and play dead? Of course she is going to protect herself and her kids (in her eyes). Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court.. Huh? IF HE signs that agreement why WOULDN'T it be accepted? A court will, except in rare circumstances, rubber stamp virtually ANY agreement when both parties AGREE to it. Duh. And why are the terms ridiculous? She wants half. What's wrong with that? but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. That's her prerogative. And he and his lawyers can reply as they see fit. I'm not tracking you at all. Except it sounds like you are throwing a fit his W didn't roll over and let you two sail off into the sunset. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent. OK, this I get. She is using the kids and its not kosher. This is NOT helpful at all to them even if it is correct - and it is. However, there is nothing that can be done except to have people "on her side" to talk her down from this path. All YOU can do is nothing. Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her. OK...so what? She has a game plan and is executing it. Kind a like you. What's the problem? I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on. Isn't that what she is doing? She appears to be saying "You can go but I want half". Again, what's the problem here? Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life. Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children. Its a double standard I agree. And so what? I am getting the sense for the tone of this post that you are beginning to realize he just might not leave. And you rail against everyone EXCEPT him. This is HIS choice to make, not yours. If he stays, he pays a price. If he leaves, he pays a price. He will pick the least costly. Keep in mind WHO makes the final decision....everything else is an excuse. 1
MissBee Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying... ... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her. Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent. Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her. I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on. Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life. Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children. I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness. Great thread and interesting points! I do think there is that double standard, that stems from societal views on the role of men and women and the hard-wired as well as socially ascribed ways that men and women engage relationships. There is this view that marriage is "for women". Women get the wedding and the fairytale romance, romantic comedies are for women, and men are just there because they need to be. Even the idea of "ball and chain" and how marriage is discussed, often speaks in favor of women getting more out of marriage while men are sort of suckered into it and it is an honorable man's duty to care for a wife and kids, even though his true passions lie elsewhere. Women leaving a marriage or entering a marriage to pursue love are then more favored, because generally speaking, I think romantic notions are more in favor of women, while for men the aspects of responsibility are more highlighted. Therefore, it is often seen as a man shirking his responsibilities (even if it is not true) when he decides to leave a marriage versus more romantic/feeling-based sentiments of him wanting happiness. That lies within the structure of our society and the fact that in general feminine things are more aligned towards feelings while for men it is more aligned towards actions and even things described as masculine versus feminine qualities are very telling. It is deeply ingrained. I think it is unfair and I think that since courts are more favored towards women and since biologically women are literally tethered to their offspring and nurse them and carry them around, that it is assumed that in a divorce, the children will stay with the mother. A woman wanting to leave her marriage, therefore comes under less scrutiny in terms of responsibility and the kids, since chances are, her divorcing will not impact her ability to care for and be with her children, so people can subtract that element and focus on her "happiness". While for men, I think that since they do not have that tether and there are those cases of men sowing their wild oats and then living a "free life", there is almost a visceral reaction that he is not leaving the relationship, but his entire family and kids to be a "part time dad". Most times men don't get sole custody and often times when men leave marriages, they have to leave the kids primarily with the mother, and if they make a family elsewhere it is often a dynamic of the kids they have with their now wife and then their kids before who don't live with them and trying to integrate that. It is a very interesting situation that can indeed be problematized and discussed. I do not believe it is right for a woman to abuse her power (and she does hold the power with regards to the kids) if her husband wants to leave the marriage. I think she needs to put her own hurt aside and allow for what is best for the children and them having great parents to occur. I also think that men have to be aware of that and play their cards right, in that one cannot prance around in an affair, and then expect one's BW to play nice for the kids. If one is so lucky as to have a woman of class that will do so, then great for you, but do not assume or expect that she should be like that given your indiscretion. Ultimately though, one has to be strategic and make smart decisions. I would not allow someone to "trap" me indefinitely in a bad marriage for the kid's sake. I would fight against that and I believe a man should! To sit down and accept whatever inane terms the wife comes up with or to live in a hostile or tense home environment doesn't help the kids or him. I think he should do all that is in his power to come to an agreement where he can be with his kids but leave his wife. To simply "stay put"....nothing else planned....no other option thought out...doesn't make sense. Edited September 5, 2011 by MissBee
wannabdone Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I know many are quick to assume this is an "excuse", but I think many married men who want to leave their wives simply get screwed into staying... ... currently my AP was handed a separation "agreement" drafted by his W that would give him access to his kids only two times per month and would have him giving 50% of his NET income to her. Of course the terms are ridiculous and would not be supported in Court... but she has made it clear that she will make going to Court such a drawn out hassle, depleting him of all his time, energy, and money. In the meantime, she intends to make it clear to the children that they were left by him. Even though he wants shared custody and to be an active parent. Her M.O. is to bully him into staying, even though he's told her he was never in love with her. I understand she is hurting. I guess what I don't understand is wanting to keep someone who has just told you they don't want to be with you and don't love you. If it were me, painful as that might be, I would pick up the pieces and move on. Another thing I've noticed in just how differently the "outside world" reacts and responds to men and women wanting to leave their partners. As a woman, I've had nothing but support from people (friends, colleagues, family members) in saying that my marriage is extremely unfulfilling and I don't want to be in it anymore. People respond to me with support, often citing how important it is to be happy in life and how we only get one chance at life. Now, if a man says the same.. that he wants out of his unfulfilling marriage... well, he's a villain, an A-hole, a heartless scumbag. My AP has spoken to many friends/colleagues/family members and the common message to him is to "stay put" and "suck it up" and get his happiness from his children. I'm noticing how women are celebrated while men are demonized for wanting the same thing: happiness. I have to agree with you. I know its easy for people to say he can hire an attorney, or he can pay the price if he loves you. And you know what.... he can. But lets be real, who would??????!!!!!! Not very many people. And you are so right, there is a double standard. Because I think a lot of ppl, (not all), but quite a few victimize the woman immediately, and make the man into a bastard for leaving. It is his role in life to stay and provide for the family, so on and so forth. In my case, I really do think my MM wanted to leave, he tried it many times, and the same thing, she would come and set some unrealisitic expectations, and he would stay. Did he choose to stay.....ABSOLUTELY!!!! But, his choice would not have been that, I don't believe, if she would have provided him with a settlement that worked for both of them. People in general don't want to loose half their income. And depending on the state, no matter who your lawyer is, she will get just that. And they specially don't want to loose their children, look like a piece in front of God and Family, so they take the "easy" way out and stay. My MM and I went around and around with this too many times to count. Fact is, he should have been honest enough with himself and me to say "I will never be able to do this, I thought I could, but I can not", and I should have been honest enough with myself, as you are being with yourself to say "he will never be able to do this, I need to move on". No body wants to live in sqauller, no body doesn't want to see their children, and no body wants to lose the input in their children lives. All of these things are very scary. So, yes, I think you are right, there are just some circumstances where they are stuck. Stuck by their choice.... yes, but still feel stuck. I have told my MM a million times, when he says "you know I will love you till the day I die, you know you are the only woman, I truly have ever loved, I will never love anyone like I love you, I am not staying here because of my love for her, I miss you everyday", that it makes no difference if he stays because of finances, children, or even if he loves her. It is rejection all the same for me on my end, and it hurts. It doesn't ease the pain because he is financially tied to a place and has a half dozen children. As someone mentioned before, it seems like you have realized that he will not ever leave, and that is probably the truth. I have thought about my MM waiting till his kids grew up, which would be another 10 years, would he then. Probably not, because then we are faced with the fact that is wife will be in her late 50's, not had a job in over 25 years, and now we are looking at grandchildren. He is where he is going to be for the rest of his life. And I must find my happiness and peace. You must do the same. You know he will not leave, and it probably is for very good reasoning, however, you will never be with him and now its your time to heal and grow and find happiness and peace. Good luck to you.
SoMovinOn Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 An ugly divorce can easily run into tens of thousands of dollars, or even hundreds of thousands if the money is there. It's easy for people to say he can just hire a lawyer, but, if he doesn't have the finances to do so, it's not going to happen. Ugly divorces are probably one of the best reasons to not have kids. At some point, it boils down to him deciding what is most important to him. He can agree to take care of his kids and be willing to walk away from everything else - live at or near poverty... or, he can decide he doesn't want to live like that, that his stuff and his financial position is important to him, and stay with her until the kids are grown, then leave if he still wants to. It's either a matter of finances (if he can afford the legal battle) or priorities (if he can't)
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Bullshyte. If he wants to leave he will. If not he won't. There's a price he has to pay either way and he is choosing what is least costly. You'll ignore this completely and miss that it is 100% true. . He won't choose to see his children twice a month. The cost to him and his children is too great. I completely understand this. So? Did you two think she would roll over and play dead? Of course she is going to protect herself and her kids (in her eyes). . No, not roll over and play dead. But not damage her children by removing him from their lives either. Those are both extremes. Huh? IF HE signs that agreement why WOULDN'T it be accepted? A court will, except in rare circumstances, rubber stamp virtually ANY agreement when both parties AGREE to it. Duh. . He isn't signing it. He had nothing to do with writing it. It was her tactic to scare him into staying. Why would anyone want to be chosen because you bullied and scared someone into staying put? And why are the terms ridiculous? She wants half. What's wrong with that? . Where I live, the law does not give half just because an angry W wants half. There is a clear amount of child support that she is entitled to, but spousal support isn't a guarantee, especially considering the fact that she is employed full time at a high rate of pay and all her children are enrolled in full time schooling. I made an error above too... she wants 50% of his GROSS income, not NET. Considering a rough tax estimation of 48%, that would basically leave him with an income of zero. The laws are very clear on this: that would never happen. I'm not tracking you at all. Except it sounds like you are throwing a fit his W didn't roll over and let you two sail off into the sunset. . I've re-read my post, and there's really no evidence of me throwing a fit. I knew this was a risk when we started making moves to leave our marriages, and I have been very clear on the reality that it may not work out on his end. My point in posting is th showcase how royally MM can get screwed into staying, moreso than MW. I am getting the sense for the tone of this post that you are beginning to realize he just might not leave. And you rail against everyone EXCEPT him. . This is HIS choice to make, not yours. If he stays, he pays a price. If he leaves, he pays a price. He will pick the least costly. QUOTE] And I don't blame him. If my STBXH was going to cut me off from my child and take all my money, I'd stay unhappily stuck with a spouse I hate too. What I wonder is... who wants to be the spouse that "won" by forcing someone to be with you? Hey listen, JWI71 -- you and I are often on opposite sides of some ideas, but I do appreciate the thoughtfulness of your often pointed remarks, and I hope you can see that I'm here for the discussion, not to whine. I fully realize that if my AP can't/won't get out, then I'm simply supposed to meet someone else.
alexandria35 Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Cabin just wondering where things stand for you right now. As I recall you are also married. Have you seperated from your husband? Or have you spoken with your husband about a seperation? When did your MM and his wife decide to seperate? Has he moved out yet? I agree with you that there is a double standard applied to men and women when it comes to who has made the decision to leave and why. I think in some ways people are somewhat too encouraging and supportive when a woman wants to leave her husband. Of course I don't believe a woman should stay in a marriage that is abusive in any way, shape or form, but at my age I see a lot of middle aged women leaving their marriages simply out of boredom and a desire for excitement.
MissBee Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I have to agree with you. I know its easy for people to say he can hire an attorney, or he can pay the price if he loves you. And you know what.... he can. But lets be real, who would??????!!!!!! Not very many people. And you are so right, there is a double standard. Because I think a lot of ppl, (not all), but quite a few victimize the woman immediately, and make the man into a bastard for leaving. It is his role in life to stay and provide for the family, so on and so forth. In my case, I really do think my MM wanted to leave, he tried it many times, and the same thing, she would come and set some unrealisitic expectations, and he would stay. Did he choose to stay.....ABSOLUTELY!!!! But, his choice would not have been that, I don't believe, if she would have provided him with a settlement that worked for both of them. People in general don't want to loose half their income. And depending on the state, no matter who your lawyer is, she will get just that. And they specially don't want to loose their children, look like a piece in front of God and Family, so they take the "easy" way out and stay. My MM and I went around and around with this too many times to count. Fact is, he should have been honest enough with himself and me to say "I will never be able to do this, I thought I could, but I can not", and I should have been honest enough with myself, as you are being with yourself to say "he will never be able to do this, I need to move on". No body wants to live in sqauller, no body doesn't want to see their children, and no body wants to lose the input in their children lives. All of these things are very scary. So, yes, I think you are right, there are just some circumstances where they are stuck. Stuck by their choice.... yes, but still feel stuck. I have told my MM a million times, when he says "you know I will love you till the day I die, you know you are the only woman, I truly have ever loved, I will never love anyone like I love you, I am not staying here because of my love for her, I miss you everyday", that it makes no difference if he stays because of finances, children, or even if he loves her. It is rejection all the same for me on my end, and it hurts. It doesn't ease the pain because he is financially tied to a place and has a half dozen children. As someone mentioned before, it seems like you have realized that he will not ever leave, and that is probably the truth. I have thought about my MM waiting till his kids grew up, which would be another 10 years, would he then. Probably not, because then we are faced with the fact that is wife will be in her late 50's, not had a job in over 25 years, and now we are looking at grandchildren. He is where he is going to be for the rest of his life. And I must find my happiness and peace. You must do the same. You know he will not leave, and it probably is for very good reasoning, however, you will never be with him and now its your time to heal and grow and find happiness and peace. Good luck to you. Amaazing post! I completely empathize and agree. When I was with the taken guy, I believe he did love and care for me and he says he always will, but a relationship is built on so much more. You loving me from afar or loving me but not being able to give me the life I want, is unfortunately not enough. I believe in aiming for THE BEST and not just for what will suffice for now. I do not believe one has "one soulmate"; therefore, I have and will always say, that perhaps you meeting someone you are a match for, but the circumstances are not right (i.e. they are married to another and not leaving anytime soon) then perhaps this is not "meant to be", but you simply located one of your potential matches and you should find one of your other matches, who will come with the right circumstances! That is the bottomline for me. I believe the guy from my former A was one of my matches, but he was not "the one", as he would never be able to give me the life I want. I do not believe that he was my last chance or that I needed to wait indefinitely for him. I believe that I will live and love and have a great love again and marry and be happy with someone who comes with the right set of circumstances and not just the love. I believe that if a married person is truly my "one"....then the circumstances will work themselves out and I will be his choice, no matter the difficulty. If I am not, for finances, kids, whatever the reason....then I thank him for the love but I have to move on to someone who I can build a life with.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 As I recall you are also married. Have you seperated from your husband? Or have you spoken with your husband about a seperation? When did your MM and his wife decide to seperate? Has he moved out yet? . My H and I have finished our separation papers and have an appointment to have them notarized by a lawyer. My H is looking for a house and has put an offer on one. We are in no rush to live apart until he finds a suitable home for himself and our D, who he will have split custody of. We backdated our separation to April of this year, and will be filing for D at that time. My AP (I'm sorry, I don't refer to him as my MM because, well, he isn't MY married man;)) has been talking to his wife, through counselling, about a split but things came to a head really quickly with her suddenly producing a one-sided separation "agreement" when he told her he really does not want to be married anymore.
woinlove Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 If my STBXH was going to cut me off from my child and take all my money, I'd stay unhappily stuck with a spouse I hate too. Do you think that is what the courts would decide in MM's case? If so, why?
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Do you think that is what the courts would decide in MM's case? If so, why? No, the Courts would not decide to let her take his kids and money away from him. Both go against the guiding principles in our family law act. But it's the process of getting to Court that is alarming. She has made it very clear that she will waste time and money nitpicking every detail, contesting a divorce, coming up with claims that he is unfit to parent, raising concerns about the children's safety, withholding access... etc. to keep him where he is. In the end, the Courts may grant him what is fair, but he's worried about what that level of acrimony would do to his children in the meantime. If she refuses him access, it typically takes 3-4 months to get a hearing with the family court to be granted access. In that time, she would be poisoning the children against him. That kind of damage doesn't heal.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 I think he should do all that is in his power to come to an agreement where he can be with his kids but leave his wife. To simply "stay put"....nothing else planned....no other option thought out...doesn't make sense. I agree with you, but ultimately he will do what he thinks is best. I feel badly for him, and for her.
Lostinlife4now Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Choices: HAPPINESS OR MONEY????????????????
MissBee Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I agree with you, but ultimately he will do what he thinks is best. I feel badly for him, and for her. Yes. I mean maybe one day she may get tired of him and "release him" nicely. But yes, everyone has to make the choices they can live with and that they think are best, and it is difficult, but those in their life who it affects have to also make a choice.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Choices: HAPPINESS OR MONEY???????????????? I agree that money doesn't equal happiness, but no money does usually equal unhappiness, at least to some degree. The amount of money she's talking about would have him living in total squalour, unable to provide a home for his children, just how she wants it. Meanwhile she would almost double her net take home. That simply makes no sense. Although... in that case, she'd have lots of money. Wonder if she'd be happy.
bentnotbroken Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I think people are only as stuck as they want to be. He can hire a lawyer who can protect his interests according to the law. As for turning the kids against him, that does happen sometimes, by both BS and WS. A friend's W cheated, left the M for the OM, got custody and alimony as a SAHM, and turned the kids against the father. However, as the children matured and were able to make up their own minds, they redeveloped a very positive relationship with their father. So things often do sort out with time. I wouldn't stay in a bad M for that reason. So true. I was going to ask stuck in what? Stuck in stupidity? Stuck in cowardice? Stuck in selfishness? Stuck in what? If you want to leave, get a good lawyer and get the hell on.
bentnotbroken Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 I agree that money doesn't equal happiness, but no money does usually equal unhappiness, at least to some degree. The amount of money she's talking about would have him living in total squalour, unable to provide a home for his children, just how she wants it. Meanwhile she would almost double her net take home. That simply makes no sense. Although... in that case, she'd have lots of money. Wonder if she'd be happy. Does it matter? As long as you get the prize.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 So true. I was going to ask stuck in what? Stuck in stupidity? Stuck in cowardice? Stuck in selfishness? Stuck in what? If you want to leave, get a good lawyer and get the hell on. Stuck by the threat that she will actively seek to hurt his relationship with his children, and in doing so, harm them irreparably. Even a great lawyer can't help him when she's telling their children that they've been abandoned.
bentnotbroken Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 An ugly divorce can easily run into tens of thousands of dollars, or even hundreds of thousands if the money is there. It's easy for people to say he can just hire a lawyer, but, if he doesn't have the finances to do so, it's not going to happen. Ugly divorces are probably one of the best reasons to not have kids. At some point, it boils down to him deciding what is most important to him. He can agree to take care of his kids and be willing to walk away from everything else - live at or near poverty... or, he can decide he doesn't want to live like that, that his stuff and his financial position is important to him, and stay with her until the kids are grown, then leave if he still wants to. It's either a matter of finances (if he can afford the legal battle) or priorities (if he can't) Agreed. And to have a pre-nup with specifics about finances and the effects infidelity will have on them.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Does it matter? As long as you get the prize. Yes, it matters to me. I realize it may seem backwards or insincere. But of course I want her to be happy and to lead a fulfilling life. I love the man. I love his children by extension. I want the mother of his children to be well.
bentnotbroken Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Yes. I mean maybe one day she may get tired of him and "release him" nicely. But yes, everyone has to make the choices they can live with and that they think are best, and it is difficult, but those in their life who it affects have to also make a choice. Did everyone forget that Cabin and her MM were setting up the BS so that things benefited "them" before they left. Now that the shoe is on the other foot and the BS is looking out for "herself", the things she is doing are sooooo wrong. In the beginning all she and her MM were doing was to do to her and Cabin's bs what she is complaining about. Managed exit I believe is the term that was used. Now the BS is doing the managing. Funny how things are soo wrong now. 1
bentnotbroken Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Stuck by the threat that she will actively seek to hurt his relationship with his children, and in doing so, harm them irreparably. Even a great lawyer can't help him when she's telling their children that they've been abandoned. No a great lawyer can't do that. The assumption that she will actually do that is one that is generalized here quit a bit. But maybe his actions will speak for him.
woinlove Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 No, the Courts would not decide to let her take his kids and money away from him. Both go against the guiding principles in our family law act. But it's the process of getting to Court that is alarming. She has made it very clear that she will waste time and money nitpicking every detail, contesting a divorce, coming up with claims that he is unfit to parent, raising concerns about the children's safety, withholding access... etc. to keep him where he is. In the end, the Courts may grant him what is fair, but he's worried about what that level of acrimony would do to his children in the meantime. If she refuses him access, it typically takes 3-4 months to get a hearing with the family court to be granted access. In that time, she would be poisoning the children against him. That kind of damage doesn't heal. There is what she threatens and what she would actually do. If they are in counselling, he could bring up these concerns with the hope that a professional might influence her. He can also talk to family, both his and his in-law, and possibly a friend that might influence her. All he can do is set up the best conditions, make sure he is pursuing available legal routes, and get on the path he wants to be on. I don't consider 3-4 months long. The example I know (where the WS turned the children against the BS) this literally went on for years, more than 5 years. She continued to be a SAHM, supported by her XH's child support and alimony, and although he had the children a several times a month (he worked full time and long hours) they definitely were turned against him. Still, as they grew up, they saw things different even though their mother's tune didn't change. So yes, that kind of damage can heal, even in much worse cases. However, whatever MM could do to prevent it, by compromising on money or trying to seek support and influence from others, would be well worth it.
Author Cabin Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 An ugly divorce can easily run into tens of thousands of dollars, or even hundreds of thousands if the money is there. It's easy for people to say he can just hire a lawyer, but, if he doesn't have the finances to do so, it's not going to happen. At some point, it boils down to him deciding what is most important to him. He can agree to take care of his kids and be willing to walk away from everything else - live at or near poverty... or, he can decide he doesn't want to live like that, that his stuff and his financial position is important to him, and stay with her until the kids are grown, then leave if he still wants to. It's either a matter of finances (if he can afford the legal battle) or priorities (if he can't) Believe it or not, the thing he is most torn about is his children. Every time I try to bring the conversation back to money, it's so secondary for him. He wants to be in his kids' lives. He told her he would leave with only his clothing and personal items. He would leave her everything: the house, the furniture, the vehicle. He just wants a fair custody/access agreement, and the financial means to be able to provide for his children while in his care.
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