Women - Can I recover from this?

[ksmit]

You've been on 3 dates with this guy and you really like him. You're not sure if he feels the same way about you because he never touches you (not even hug) and doesn't seem to show much romantic interest. You're confused because he keeps asking you out and provides compliments with subtle flirting in between. He's trying to ask you out for a 4th date but you're getting tired of the slow pace of the relationship and brush him off Friday and Saturday because it's so tiring and painful for you. You might even be hurt because you think he's not attracted to you.

 

You're going crazy inside and decide to go out on a limb to invite him over for a late night walk Sunday. He agrees. It's a romantic night, but the tone of conversation never gets romantic or even personal. At the end of the night when saying goodbye, you're dying for him to make a move but you both end up just giving each other a romantic hug and he says goodnight.

 

The next day he tells you he really enjoyed the lovely walk and you suggest having another one by the end of the week. He offers 2 different days to go but you bail out last minute on him. When you talk to him at work face-to-face, you're avoiding eye contact now. When he asks about going out later, you look at him sadly in the eyes and say you're tired. He doesn't appear to get what you're trying to say. But the next day he comes forward with you telling you he thinks you're an attractive person and that getting to know you was one of the best experiences of his summer, and that he regrets not expressing this sooner because he doesn't open up easily. You just smile back and say it was nice getting to know him too.

 

Now... is there anything I can say or do for her at this point to show my romantic interest? Should I flat out admit I want to take our relationship to the next level? Should I admit that I made mistakes and apologize to her if I hurt her in any way?

 

How would you feel at this point? What would you want to hear?

[xoxoDaniellexoxo]

Is this the same girl we already gave you advice about?

[antinko]

The OP reads like one of those fun adventure multiple choice novels.

 

"If Ksmit should just move on...turn to page 99!"

 

"If you think Ksmit should just kiss the girl already...turn to page 666!"

 

"If you think Ksmit should dance the funky chicken on the girl's desk whilst showering her with confetti...turn to page 1!"

 

But in all seriousness, OP, you're second guessing like crazy in your first two paragraphs. It's highly likely that you're massively off the mark on what you believe the girl is thinking so any 'advice' based off the scenario you've written is going to be unreliable.

 

Just saying.

[ksmit]

Is this the same girl we already gave you advice about?

Yes.

 

you're second guessing like crazy in your first two paragraphs. It's highly likely that you're massively off the mark on what you believe the girl is thinking so any 'advice' based off the scenario you've written is going to be unreliable.

I think I'm pretty damn accurate actually. I'd say there's a 90%+ chance she thinks I'm just not into her and it hurts her. The fact she's avoiding me now shows she only had romantic interest. Otherwise we'd still hang out as friends right? As a guy, that's how I would be.

 

I don't know why it's so hard for you guys to give advice. If a girl gives up on a guy because she thinks he's not interested, can the guy do anything to get her back? That's pretty much all I'm asking and I would imagine this is not the most uncommon scenario in the dating world.

 

Here are some things I'm thinking of so you can see the message I'm trying to get across:

 

1. "I think our relationship has a lot of potential if we communicated better."

2. "I like you a lot and want more from our relationship."

3. "I'll admit I made mistakes with you, but I want to make them up to you."

4. "I just want to apologize if I ever hurt you."

5. "I feel like we're drifting apart and I don't want that to happen."

6. "I'd like to take you out this weekend. If not, I'm ready to move on."

[ksmit]

To make it easier, I guess I just want to find out how to tell her that I'm ready to take our relationship to the next level but ready to move on if she isn't. I want her to feel if she doesn't make a move now I'm moving on.

[country_gurl]

So you work at the same place? Why don't you have a small little bouquet of flowers (NOT ROSES!!!) delivered to her at work or her home, with a little card included that has a note like this:

 

"wanting you to know that I think you're special/great (whichever word?) and I'd really like to see where this goes" ...........or "have really enjoyed spending time with you, hoping to continue. you make my heart "smile." Or maybe "wanting you to know that spending time with you has been awesome and I really dig ya" or.........."sorry if I haven't been too obvious about how i feel but I am very interested in getting to know you more and seeing where this leads....."

 

And be sure to sign your first name, don't do the corny anonymous thing.

 

It's a small, tangible token of how you feel about her and it will show her that you're interested because guys just don't send flowers to female "friends."

[KathyM]

You've been on 3 dates with this guy and you really like him. You're not sure if he feels the same way about you because he never touches you (not even hug) and doesn't seem to show much romantic interest. You're confused because he keeps asking you out and provides compliments with subtle flirting in between. He's trying to ask you out for a 4th date but you're getting tired of the slow pace of the relationship and brush him off Friday and Saturday because it's so tiring and painful for you. You might even be hurt because you think he's not attracted to you.

 

You're going crazy inside and decide to go out on a limb to invite him over for a late night walk Sunday. He agrees. It's a romantic night, but the tone of conversation never gets romantic or even personal. At the end of the night when saying goodbye, you're dying for him to make a move but you both end up just giving each other a romantic hug and he says goodnight.

 

The next day he tells you he really enjoyed the lovely walk and you suggest having another one by the end of the week. He offers 2 different days to go but you bail out last minute on him. When you talk to him at work face-to-face, you're avoiding eye contact now. When he asks about going out later, you look at him sadly in the eyes and say you're tired. He doesn't appear to get what you're trying to say. But the next day he comes forward with you telling you he thinks you're an attractive person and that getting to know you was one of the best experiences of his summer, and that he regrets not expressing this sooner because he doesn't open up easily. You just smile back and say it was nice getting to know him too.

 

Now... is there anything I can say or do for her at this point to show my romantic interest? Should I flat out admit I want to take our relationship to the next level? Should I admit that I made mistakes and apologize to her if I hurt her in any way?

 

How would you feel at this point? What would you want to hear?

You're coming across as being a weird guy and a flake. She probably thinks you're weird by now and doesn't want to pursue anything with you. Don't apologize to her. Don't tell her you want to take the relationship to the next level. That would just sound weird at this point. It's probably too late to salvage anything. If it were me, I would think you're a strange man, that seems very awkward, inexperienced and uncomfortable with women. If you want to try, you could say "I think we got off on the wrong foot on our first dates. I'm very attracted to you, but I was feeling cautious, so I didn't want to be too forward. I really would like to get to know you, and I hope you'll consider going out again." That's all you can do at this point. And next time, make sure you kiss the woman on the first date. They expect it, and they want you to, if they have any attraction to you. You have to bring some amount of romance into the dates right from the start.

[country_gurl]

To make it easier, I guess I just want to find out how to tell her that I'm ready to take our relationship to the next level but ready to move on if she isn't. I want her to feel if she doesn't make a move now I'm moving on.

 

Whoa, hold on. You pretty much very clearly ADMIT that for 3 dates you've not given her any indication, really, that you're "into her" yet now it's like you're expecting HER to make the move or else you're going to "move on"? Are you really interested in her or not because if you're now expecting that unless she takes the lead you're going to exit stage left? Sounds almost like some kind of threat or ultimatum.....when in fact, you're the one who's kinda screwed up, not her.

 

During the walk you took that she initiated, you admit that it was pretty superficial conversation, nothing personal......well perhaps you need to really take an interest in her, SHOW HER that you're really interested (if in fact you are?)...sounds like she thinks you've just put her into the 'friend zone' and see her just as a buddy or someone to hang out with. I'm not saying you should try to jump someone's bones on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd date.....but if you're really interested in them, you should probably at least kiss them goodnight on the 3rd date? Are you really shy?

[ksmit]

The responses I'm getting today is incredible. Thank you all so, so much.

So you work at the same place? Why don't you have a small little bouquet of flowers (NOT ROSES!!!) delivered to her at work or her home

That sounds like a great idea. I absolutely love your note suggestions too. This might give her hope that I do have some capacity for romance. I've never done anything romantically sweet for her.

 

She probably thinks you're weird by now and doesn't want to pursue anything with you. If you want to try, you could say "I think we got off on the wrong foot on our first dates. I'm very attracted to you, but I was feeling cautious, so I didn't want to be too forward. I really would like to get to know you, and I hope you'll consider going out again."

I don't know if she thinks I'm weird, just uncomfortable around me because not kissing her last Sunday probably broke her heart. We still communicate in a friendly manner and just about every day. Only difference now is that she is being much less available and doesn't hold my gaze anymore (we used to have mesmerizing eye contact, was breathtaking). Your script sounds perfect and exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I know I'm not in a good position right now but I don't want to just give up.

 

That's all you can do at this point. And next time, make sure you kiss the woman on the first date. They expect it, and they want you to, if they have any attraction to you. You have to bring some amount of romance into the dates right from the start.

This was the first time I've ever dated so it's all new to me. I wish I could confess my lack of dating experience but I know you're not supposed to do that to a girl. I'm 24 and have always avoided relationships because the thought just makes me too uncomfortable. She's inspired me to really get my **** together though.

 

Whoa, hold on. You pretty much very clearly ADMIT that for 3 dates you've not given her any indication, really, that you're "into her" yet now it's like you're expecting HER to make the move or else you're going to "move on"? Sounds almost like some kind of threat or ultimatum.....when in fact, you're the one who's kinda screwed up, not her.

Since she invited me out Sunday, I've been very aggressive with trying to get her to do it again but she keeps bailing out last minute and tells me she's tired. I even tried to get together the last two nights but she brushed me off. They were all late notice, but if she cared I think she would have made time. That's why I'm trying to show her that I'm really trying to make an effort but going to give up soon.

 

During the walk you took that she initiated, you admit that it was pretty superficial conversation, nothing personal......well perhaps you need to really take an interest in her, SHOW HER that you're really interested (if in fact you are?)...sounds like she thinks you've just put her into the 'friend zone' and see her just as a buddy or someone to hang out with. Are you really shy?

Extremely shy. She is very shy and sensitive too. Making a move on her is like trying to amputate my own arm. Think part of the problem is we are too much alike and keep waiting for the other to make a move. I think we would have a very powerful relationship though if we could just break this goddamn ice. And yes, I'm afraid I'm the one who put her in the friend zone, not her. Trust me, I hate myself for it.

Edited September 4, 2011 by ksmit

[Professor X]

You pretty much blown your chances already; It's time you cut your losses and move on.

 

It's cute and fancy that you don't wanna give up and all, but you had the chance to "not give up" with the 4th date.. and you ended up reading about kissing but not actually kissing her.

 

And it's not about not wanting to give up anyway, it's about realizing that you're dealing with another person here and there's only so much you can do - and you did all you could.

[rafallus]

Yes.

 

Then, if manning up and going caveman won't work, you're screwed.

 

You are absurdly needy and invested, but it's unilateral.

[ksmit]

Then, if manning up and going caveman won't work, you're screwed. You are absurdly needy and invested, but it's unilateral.

What the hell are you saying?

[country_gurl]

I even tried to get together the last two nights but she brushed me off. They were all late notice, but if she cared I think she would have made time.

 

NO NO NO NO. Nobody wants to be asked out at the last minute, or 'late notice' as you put it because that just says to them that they're not much of a priority to you and that you likely just asked them out at the last minute because your other plans fell through; that they are nothing but your back-up plan and not at all any kind of priority. So as you you think that "if she cared she would have made time", she likely thinks if YOU CARED you wouldn't have asked her out at the last moment. See how that works?

 

If a guy is really interested in a girl and it's in the early stages, he needs to ask her out in advance, not at 10pm where it then just makes her think she's his 'second choice' or perhaps he thinks of her as nothing more than a booty call. If a guy wants to show respect to a girl he's interested in, he should ask her out a few days (or even a week) in advance...........not on Friday night at 10pm, etc.

[ksmit]

LOL, I've learned so much.

[FitChick]

The OP hasn't dated before because he feared being rejected. That is exactly what he created. That is what we call a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

 

Lesson learned. Next time make your move on the first date to set the tone of the relationship. If you are rejected you will not be as emotionally involved as you are now and will be able to move on.

 

I had a similar situation years ago with a shy, inexperienced man. I liked him and would have been receptive to any overtures but I never got any so assumed he wasn't interested. Years later I heard through a mutual friend that he assumed he wasn't my type so didn't bother.

[ksmit]

If you want to try, you could say "I think we got off on the wrong foot on our first dates. I'm very attracted to you, but I was feeling cautious, so I didn't want to be too forward. I really would like to get to know you, and I hope you'll consider going out again." That's all you can do at this point.

That's sort of what I already told her the other day. Told her I'm attracted to her and regret not expressing it sooner because I don't open up easily. Only thing I didn't do was suggest going out again. (Oops...) What annoys the hell out of me at this point is not knowing for sure whether it's over or not. I have a hard time walking away from something without closure.

 

Thanks all.

[Yellow_Duck'y]

The OP hasn't dated before because he feared being rejected. That is exactly what he created. That is what we call a SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

 

True. But in another thread, he said it's because he fears the woman has been with "tons of dudes" and he doesn't like whores.

 

However, IF what is holding him back is based solely on a fear of being rejected, understandable, no one likes rejection. Maybe there is a little bit of ego mixed in there somewhere (feeling like he doesn't measure up), or maybe he's afraid to fall for someone and then find out later she slept with the entire football team in high school/college. Or, that she has an STD, or she has 12 toes.

[sm1tten]

The fact that she starting blowing you off (which is a bad sign in and of itself), then gave you a chance that you didn't capitalise on, and has now fallen back on blowing you off again would make me think that it's over. At this point, your expression of interest may or may not have come too late, but I think that if she doesn't throw you a bone AFTER you've told her that you just have a hard time opening up means she's given up, doesn't care, or is otherwise not interested. How long has it been since you told her that and did you have any interaction afterwards?

[ksmit]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply sm1tten. I opened up to her on Thursday but wasn't impressed with her response. She only said she enjoys spending time with me too. Because she didn't say she was attracted to me too, I cut off all contact with her for the rest of the day (I overreacted/overanalyzed and was hurt). Friday we had a couple small talk emails (I initialized) back and forth in the morning then I ignored her till later that night when I asked her if she felt like going out for a drink to talk. She was already with a friend.

 

Then last night I did the same thing in the evening. I regret not asking her out again earlier in the day. She probably thinks I'm an a-hole for waiting till the evening. Oh well, I keep learning.

[Yellow_Duck'y]

12 toes could be sexy.

 

Could be. I haven't met anyone with 12 toes, so I can't say for sure.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think that you've waved so many red flags in this girl's face that if she decides to ignore all the signs pointing AWAY from you as an appropriate guy to get involved with - she has serious issues of her own.

 

I hope that you remember all this and take what you've learned with you the next time you get interested in someone.

 

From this and another thread of yours, I believe you have a hugh amount to learn before you're going to be able to deal with REAL girls / women in REAL LIFE.

[ksmit]

Could be. I haven't met anyone with 12 toes' date=' so I can't say for sure.[/quote']

Thanks for spamming my thread guys.

 

I think that you've waved so many red flags in this girl's face that if she decides to ignore all the signs pointing AWAY from you as an appropriate guy to get involved with - she has serious issues of her own.

 

I hope that you remember all this and take what you've learned with you the next time you get interested in someone.

 

From this and another thread of yours, I believe you have a hugh amount to learn before you're going to be able to deal with REAL girls / women in REAL LIFE.

In all honestly, if I could do it all over again with this girl I think I would have had it. There were just too many "first time" experiences I was bombarded with. Being a sensitive and generally not social guy, it's a lot to take in.

 

I think it's amazing I was able to hold her interest for months and pull out 4 dates! Ironically I'm the one who unintentionally friend-zoned her too. Since I work with this girl I should focus on just being good friends with her. Maybe she could even become a BFF and help me in the future. Maybe I can ask her to teach me how to kiss?

[Yellow_Duck'y]

Thanks for spamming my thread guys.

 

Sorry.

 

Maybe she could even become a BFF and help me in the future. Maybe I can ask her to teach me how to kiss?

 

Oh, I don't think that would go over to well...

 

But, after some time has passed, maybe a friendship with her is possible. If you work together, you need to keep things cordial and pleasant.

[country_gurl]

Since I work with this girl I should focus on just being good friends with her. Maybe she could even become a BFF and help me in the future. Maybe I can ask her to teach me how to kiss?

 

Due to the fact that she's someone you work with, I would highly, HIGHLY advise you not to ever ask her, even just as friends, to 'teach you how to kiss.' Friends don't teach other friends this sort of this, trust me. If a guy friend asked me that, I'd be completely creeped out and if I had to still face him in the workplace, I'd be very uncomfortable and I'd avoid him like the plague and then that would make for a really uncomfortable work atmosphere. Seriously.

[ksmit]

LOL, gotcha. We don't don't work with each other, just reside in the same building. From here on out I guess I'll just be distant friends with her with the occasional email here and there.