Is she waiting to see change?

[flitzanu]

Well, she came over last night to talk. She admitted that she was too dependent on me for her own "entertainment / amusement" for lack of better description. I have hobbies that I enjoy, but she seems to just work and come home.

 

She said she needs to reconnect with old friends from school, and take up some hobbies she enjoys but had fallen by the wayside, so that I wouldn't be relied upon as her sole source of socializing.

 

She said outright that her lack of extra-curricular activity was a part of our lack of communication...she had not a lot of interesting and new things to say, and that led to me completely zoning out with the same day-to-day type conversations.

 

 

 

I am fully aware that this is a distinct possibility.

 

 

 

I'll admit, if I was disinterested in something...looking back at my communication "blocks", I tended to fall into the daydreaming category. And while something may have seemed mundane to me, it was important to her otherwise she wouldn't be telling me. This is part of the learning on empathy I am doing. Recognizing the needs and feelings of others, and that my perceived "truth" is completely different than the "truth" they have in their mind.

 

If I had been telling her something about my day, and she stone-walled me, I'd be upset too. I've realized it's not so much WHAT you're talking about (the weather, what you had for lunch, etc.) but HOW you're talking.

 

you don't pay attention to me. you don't listen to me. you don't care.

 

yeah, same story from every other girl. not trying to minimalize, but seriously, it's trite and meaningless excuses, they aren't that valid. just nice ways of trying to distance herself.

 

you know what happened when i changed everything i was told were my problems? she then told me that i'm fake. "all the sudden you understand what the problems were and have fixed them? that is impossible, you're just fake."

 

be careful not to lose yourself in your transformation.

[Diogenes]

I wish you the best, but this "Pushme-Pullyou" sceanrio seldom ends well. Even if you do what they say they want, they move the goal posts, or don't believe the changes you've made are going to stick.

 

For the most part if you've been a good husband in most other ways, they are simply excuses to get around the fact their feelings for you are for whatever reason going away. In many cases even the wives have no idea what's happening, they have what the majority of every other woman could want, but they are not content.

 

I strongly recommend men here read this, it kind of puts things into perspective in a way I'd never though of until yesterday when I came across it

http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/womens-infidelity/

[BeenHereBefore]

Flitzanu - I appreciate your replies and well, bluntness I do not think this is a smokescreen, or a way for her to lessen any sort of guilt she may feel for ending the relationship. Her concerns and frustrations are completely valid. I was a poor listener, and it did make her feel as though I didn't care. Regarding transformation - I have to re-learn some poor behaviours, not re-create ME.

[othersideofthepillow]

I read this same story over and over again, and what the truth is isn't what they say. The only way to keep a woman's attention is to be unpredictable, they claim they want a nice guy, stability etc., but their hormones demand alpha male treatment on a regular basis. The minute you appear to be totally predictable they'll build up a laundry list of "issues" as a excuse to finally leave you. They'll stick around for a bit if you call their bluff by acting on these "issues" because you've thrown them off their storyline, but will eventually resort to even more vague terms, leading to " I've not been very happy and need to find myself" etc.

 

Granted there are problems in all relationships, but it takes two to run one. Many of the reasons I hear women leaving stable relationships for seem very trivial, and when translated into "Manease" mean " I've become bored, there's no challenge and excitement here, but I can't give him that reason for going". So what we need to do is be the best Men we can be, not just for them but for ourselves, "Man up" and call their bluff.

 

Once you are the "best you can be", doing whatever it takes ( working out, Tango lessons,following your bliss, counseling, you name it) you begin to see things in a different light and realize much of what you were blamed for is in fact issues totally beyond your control, and often just a rationalization being used to end a relationship in a way to alleviate the guilt of the other party.

 

I couldn't agree with this statement any more.....it NAILS IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD!

 

BeenHerBefore i applaud you in your efforts in correcting the issues that led for the split in the first place but like a few other posters said it does appear a bit one sided. now obviously we are not present to see her actions and there are good signs that she DOES want to be with you again.

 

i have a question for you though...say the shoe was on the other foot and you presented her with leaving/left the relationship for a certain reason (communication or something else), how would she respond?....would she value your input and work on the areas that need correcting in your eyes or would she simply say f*** you im fine the way i am and find someone else?

 

in your last post you mentioned that she has stated that she had blame for the relationship ending and realizes what her part was - but HAS she worked on correcting it at all so it doesn't present itself in the future?

[c0nfuzd]

Flitzanu - I appreciate your replies and well, bluntness I do not think this is a smokescreen, or a way for her to lessen any sort of guilt she may feel for ending the relationship. Her concerns and frustrations are completely valid. I was a poor listener, and it did make her feel as though I didn't care. Regarding transformation - I have to re-learn some poor behaviours, not re-create ME.

 

sounds genuine to me...keep doing what you're doing

 

if it's true love that you have, she can forgive and move forward assuming your changes are real

 

she didn't have to kiss you but she did...take that to the bank

[Diogenes]

With all due respect to everyone, being a "Poor listener" is about on the bottom end of reasons to end a marriage after Adultery, Abuse, Alcoholism/Addictions, Neglect etc,.... listed at item 37, right after "not helping with the dishes". It's like giving the death sentence for wearing socks with sandals.

 

Communication is important, but it has to be two sided. If the wife or husband isn't communicating that one issue in particular is a real problem for them, how is it the other spouse's problem? To use it as an excuse to end a marriage by themselves not wanting to talk about it smells like grasping at straws to me.

[BeenHereBefore]

She told me many times that my communication was poor. She tried. She really did. Unfortunately, I didn't "hear" her until she was walking out the door, if that makes sense.

[Diogenes]

There is something else going on here, have any of her friends recently separated and are reliving high school romances with new men? To many a wife their friend's new springtime romance is viewed as pastures that appear greener than theirs and the complaints start. If communication was the issue, and she really cared about it, she should have been the one really pushing for MC a couple of years ago...If you are really serious about it get her to go with you, if she won't go it's been something else all along.

[BeenHereBefore]

None of her friends are going through break-ups / hook-ups. She DID bring up counselling in the past, but at the time it was ME who wasn't open to it. Believe me, I am painting this situation very fairly with my posts. She went to a session with me earlier, has been very supportive and curious about my progress, and has asked if she could come again. Baby steps.

[Diogenes]

Well that's positive, I don't mean to be negative, but sometimes when we are in the situation we don't see clearly, we kind of see what we want... Take care and I really am pulling for you, I know there's no hope for mine....

[BeenHereBefore]

Below is a snippet of a post from eNotAlone. I find it very applicable and inspiring.

So with respect and kindness for those who suggest withholding as a 'strategy' for 'getting you back'...I recommend learning validation, mirroring, how to make your partner feel safe, and how to invite them to share. While at the same time giving up the belief that your own reality is the ultimate truth. It's my belief that the unconscious belief that ones own truth is also true for our partner is the core reason why things don't 'work'. And that only one of the partners has to do the work of getting beyond that. The other will be unavoidably compelled to follow if you really do the work. What may not be so apparent is the ways in which you are lacking. That's normal - those are your blind spots. But who doesn't want a really together partner? It's now my belief that if your partner leaves it means you are missing something important AND they are missing the ability to deal with it. Only one of you has to change to fix that.

That my partner left, I came to understand, meant I didn't have it together yet. Didn't matter that she didn't either. For a good long time, I believed that she had control over the situation because she was the one willing to walk away. But now I've seen different. She wanted that great relationship just as much as I did. Walking away was simply her best solution at the time for getting it. When I was finally able to validate her reality, that was what turned it around. And it didn't happen all at once. But I do see looking back that there was no other way for either of us once I changed.

[name goeshere]

Well that's positive, I don't mean to be negative, but sometimes when we are in the situation we don't see clearly, we kind of see what we want... Take care and I really am pulling for you, I know there's no hope for mine....

 

 

We always see what we want. That is one part about NC is that it has the chance of helping us see the truth after time. Rarely is it one side but usually one side takes all the blame or gives it all.

[BeenHereBefore]

Thanks for pulling for me, guys. About seeing what we want to see - I am reporting facts only in this thread: what was said, and what was done. I am trying not to let my analysis of things cloud the reality of the situation.

[Diogenes]

Yes, we go through stages of blame. Early on I ate myself up, taking it all on myself, to the point of the ridiculous, looking for "The Thing" that tipped the balance. Three months on, what little I was told as being the problem was in fact not valid at all, just a smoke screen for the fact she needed an excuse to cover that her affections had gone elsewhere.

[BeenHereBefore]

Yes, we go through stages of blame. Early on I ate myself up, taking it all on myself, to the point of the ridiculous, looking for The Thing that tipped the balance. Three months on, what little I was told as being the problem was in fact not valid at all, just a smoke screen for the fact she needed an excuse to cover that her affections had gone elsewhere.

I'm sorry to hear of how it ended for you. I've been on the receiving end of another guy, and it hurts like hell. In my current case, she told me she has no intention of dating anyone, and she'd like to reconnect in the not-to-distant future. I am taking these as positives. I have looked as hard as I can for the smokescreen, but she is legit.

[2sunny]

as far as "truth" goes... everyone has their own truth - i have mine and you have yours. they are both valid and real... based upon our experience and perspective.

 

for example - sitting in the same spot - we could both watch a sunset at the same time, same day. i could state that it was an amazing sunset. that is MY truth - you could describe it as fair or mediocre... and describe the clouds in the way and the wind blowing too hard for your liking... that is YOUR truth. they are both correct = yours is your truth and mine is my truth. they are both based upon our experience and perspective.

 

does that make sense?

 

when we can accept that everyone has their own truth - is when things begin to be real.

 

state your words to her based upon YOUR TRUTH. allow her to get to know your truth without reservation. it takes becoming vulnerable with her. no fear!

[BeenHereBefore]

does that make sense? when we can accept that everyone has their own truth - is when things begin to be real.

It makes perfect sense. I have been reading lots of Al Turtles articles, and how he believes "everyone makes sense all the time", no matter what they are doing or saying, they are simply manifesting their own "truth". I have been applying these thoughts to my interactions with her, and have done my best to become a source of safety for her. I hope these things she has said and done recently are signs that I am being effective, even in the face of an upcoming period of NC.

[BeenHereBefore]

Having a bad day...not sure why. Compared to where we were a month ago, there is much more reason to be positive, but it's one of those days where I can't shake the uncertainty of the future.

[c0nfuzd]

Having a bad day...not sure why. Compared to where we were a month ago, there is much more reason to be positive, but it's one of those days where I can't shake the uncertainty of the future.

 

 

get used to this...it's part of the cycle; some days you're up and some days you're down; I am going thru the same thing so I can relate

 

btw, thanks for the Al Turtles tip; I like his articles and learning much from him

[BeenHereBefore]

Well, an unexpected event on the weekend. Driving home from the cottage on a back road, I hit some loose gravel and end up in the ditch head-on into a telephone pole @ 90km/hr. My car is written off, but amazingly I am 100% unharmed. Since I am still LC with her (though we had been NC since Thursday), I sent a short text letting her know what had happened and that I was ok, since I knew she'd be upset hearing it through the grapevine. She texts back late last night:

Oh my god. Let me know if you need anything!!!! I will call you tomorrow night.

I tracked down the therapist I used to see, I want to go back to her.

You should stay home from work tomorrow. I will call you tomorrow night, is that ok?

She has been texting me all morning asking about the accident. I wasn't looking for any sort of sympathy, since that is counter-productive, but she is very clearly concerned about me, and offered up the fact that she is seeking therapy also. I hope these are good signs?

[flitzanu]

Flitzanu - I appreciate your replies and well, bluntness I do not think this is a smokescreen, or a way for her to lessen any sort of guilt she may feel for ending the relationship. Her concerns and frustrations are completely valid. I was a poor listener, and it did make her feel as though I didn't care. Regarding transformation - I have to re-learn some poor behaviours, not re-create ME.

 

bluntness is sometimes most effective no need to candy coat! but seriously, we're here for you and behind the cynicism, my heart would always say "run to her and plead your love" though that's just the worst thing to do, ever :/

[BeenHereBefore]

Amen brother! I know what NOT to do. I keep telling myself that the best way to show her I love her is to respect her desire for some space at this time. I find hope in the fact that every time we do see each other, she has talked about the future.

[BeenHereBefore]

Well I saw her the other night, no relationship talk...I had to grab something from the house and I stayed to chat for a little while. She commented on my new clothes and asked how much weight I had lost and how often had I been going to the gym. When I left she hugged me, and initiated a kiss twice.

[BeenHereBefore]

Today she has been texting me to let me know that a show we had seen (and planned to see again) is coming to town in a couple months, and then asked if I planned on going...breadcrumbs I know.

[flitzanu]

stay strong man.