Author bluenightowl Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 This conclusion about women is just as f**d up as mine was about men, back in the day. Plenty of women don't automatically bond through sex, just as plenty of men DO. I agree with your statement in general. However, I doubt its just the sex for men. Also, early in a relationship is when people really don't see the real person. They see great sex, and project that everything is great about the person. Perhaps another reason why to pace oneself.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 I agree with your statement in general. However, I doubt its just the sex for men. Also, early in a relationship is when people really don't see the real person. They see great sex, and project that everything is great about the person. Perhaps another reason why to pace oneself. I know this probably has occurred to you, but perhaps not the other posters... What if you do #1, she says 'yes' she wants to be exclusive, but still keeps seeing other men anyway? She may even have some intention phasing out the other guys... how exactly does this happen. This phasing out? See how messed up this all is? It is very easy to hide if she has a funny work schedule or has kids. Early in my dating experience after my fiancee passed, I had one guy do this. Alot of people use their work and kids to hide their activities. These days, not only do they have to express exclusivity, they have to show it through a multitude of actions. Anyway, this is why I'd probably end up with #2 ultimately. The 'transition' period would do some damage I probably couldn't get past...
Author bluenightowl Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 I know this probably has occurred to you, but perhaps not the other posters... What if you do #1, she says 'yes' she wants to be exclusive, but still keeps seeing other men anyway? She may even have some intention phasing out the other guys... how exactly does this happen. This phasing out? See how messed up this all is? It is very easy to hide if she has a funny work schedule or has kids. Early in my dating experience after my fiancee passed, I had one guy do this. Alot of people use their work and kids to hide their activities. These days, not only do they have to express exclusivity, they have to show it through a multitude of actions. Anyway, this is why I'd probably end up with #2 ultimately. The 'transition' period would do some damage I probably couldn't get past... You just tell the other guys you're now dating one person. Its not that hard actually and multi-daters do it all the time, but it could be awkward and disappointing for any of the other people or not depending if they were also casually dating and how far along things got. I think the hardest part to get past would that you had early sex and one person is really excited about it and the other wanted to date other people. Sex does that to budding relationships. Its accelerates the emotions on one side or the other in many cases. It also means one person is super excited but could get anxious because at their high moment of excitement, the other person pulls back and retreats, or worse regrets the whole thing and then are presented with the idea of being exclusive. If they said yes, I'll just date you, it does raise questions as to whether they really want it or not. Even they might feel scared to be alone and suddenly agree to it, when they don't mean it. The more I think about it, the more I think it would end up with a moving on situation in any case. Good point. A possible exception are people who can handle casual sex and not get too excited about its meaning. They've had so much casual sex that they don't read anything into it at all and aren't attached. I'm just not sure if that's a healthy start, but who knows.
FrustratedStandards Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Forget about it. Who talks about exclusivity on a first date? It was just a sex date, and if shes seeing other people than she isn't really interested in you. You probably have lots of sexual chemistry. Nothing wrong with that.
Blcomeau Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Definitely number one and so not number 3 because are you really gonna wait for someone else to decide where your life is going? Wouldn't you want to know where you atand with her?
Author bluenightowl Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 Definitely number one and so not number 3 because are you really gonna wait for someone else to decide where your life is going? Wouldn't you want to know where you atand with her? Its interesting that almost everyone agrees on #1, or just forget it and move on. When you read about those PUA, they always recommend to wait for the woman to ask as a sign of her interest, so #3. I guess if you are a PUA you're not married
Yellow_Duck'y Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Option 2. It would be difficult for me to know he is seeing/sleeping with other women, after we've been intimate, and I would feel betrayed.
goldenboy7115 Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 I would go for No. 1. Things happen, you enjoyed it. If you want more, and a relationship, you got to tell her. Don't leave it up in the air.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 You just tell the other guys you're now dating one person. Its not that hard actually and multi-daters do it all the time, but it could be awkward and disappointing for any of the other people or not depending if they were also casually dating and how far along things got. I think the hardest part to get past would that you had early sex and one person is really excited about it and the other wanted to date other people. Sex does that to budding relationships. Its accelerates the emotions on one side or the other in many cases. It also means one person is super excited but could get anxious because at their high moment of excitement, the other person pulls back and retreats, or worse regrets the whole thing and then are presented with the idea of being exclusive. If they said yes, I'll just date you, it does raise questions as to whether they really want it or not. Even they might feel scared to be alone and suddenly agree to it, when they don't mean it. The more I think about it, the more I think it would end up with a moving on situation in any case. Good point. A possible exception are people who can handle casual sex and not get too excited about its meaning. They've had so much casual sex that they don't read anything into it at all and aren't attached. I'm just not sure if that's a healthy start, but who knows. I have tried to remain friends with a few multi-dater type men I was interested in that were wishy-washy about their willingness to be exclusive... Not because I would ever date them in the future, because I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If I genuinely enjoyed their company, but felt that our values didn't match, it doesn't mean we can't be friends. Just means we aren't suitable in a relationship. Usually, it is them who move on though. Some of them continue to press for sex (maybe not believing they are really, truly, in the FZ), and when they don't get it, I guess my value to them is gone. On the other hand, some guys don't believe in being just friends with women unless they are gonna poke her somewhere down the road. That's fine. Either way, I haven't created any bad karma, IMHO. I certainly didn't treat them as disposable.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 I have tried to remain friends with a few multi-dater type men I was interested in that were wishy-washy about their willingness to be exclusive... Not because I would ever date them in the future, because I don't believe in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If I genuinely enjoyed their company, but felt that our values didn't match, it doesn't mean we can't be friends. Just means we aren't suitable in a relationship. Usually, it is them who move on though. Some of them continue to press for sex (maybe not believing they are really, truly, in the FZ), and when they don't get it, I guess my value to them is gone. On the other hand, some guys don't believe in being just friends with women unless they are gonna poke her somewhere down the road. That's fine. Either way, I haven't created any bad karma, IMHO. I certainly didn't treat them as disposable. Another way to think about all of this early sex and meaning issue. Lets say you just got out of a LTR. You are a bit vulnerable, you want sex, but want to refrain. A guy comes along whom you like. You have a glass of wine, or are just want to feel validated and have sex. Maybe he does too. You both know this is early, but life is short. The next day you wake up and realize you didn't really want this to happen that soon without really knowing this person better. You still like this guy, but you are so new to dating and all your friends are telling you should be meeting a few men before settling back into another LTR. So you update your profile and you go on a more dates, but you like this guy you had sex with. You just want to take your time. There is nothing deceptive going on, its just you/she moved too fast, and want to take a bit more time to decide. What if you talk about it, and that's the case, can you blame her? Would you still date or move on?
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Another way to think about all of this early sex and meaning issue. Lets say you just got out of a LTR. You are a bit vulnerable, you want sex, but want to refrain. A guy comes along whom you like. You have a glass of wine, or are just want to feel validated and have sex. Maybe he does too. You both know this is early, but life is short. The next day you wake up and realize you didn't really want this to happen that soon without really knowing this person better. You still like this guy, but you are so new to dating and all your friends are telling you should be meeting a few men before settling back into another LTR. So you update your profile and you go on a more dates, but you like this guy you had sex with. You just want to take your time. There is nothing deceptive going on, its just you/she moved too fast, and want to take a bit more time to decide. What if you talk about it, and that's the case, can you blame her? Would you still date or move on? I don't necessarily think she/he is a bad person, in your hypothetical situation... but I still don't think I'd consider them for a relationship. There is no getting around the fact that the person just isn't ready. They certainly don't deserve to be disrespected or wholesale 'dumped' either. Especially if they've been honest with you. That's just how it goes... so much in life is about timing.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 I don't necessarily think she/he is a bad person, in your hypothetical situation... but I still don't think I'd consider them for a relationship. There is no getting around the fact that the person just isn't ready. They certainly don't deserve to be disrespected or wholesale 'dumped' either. Especially if they've been honest with you. That's just how it goes... so much in life is about timing. Why wouldn't you consider them for a relationship? I think this is one case where being able to handle casual sex could work well. It was a fun night, a bit of a mistake, but you both realize you don't know each other and continue to date like before. No big deal? You both really don't like casual sex, but its more important to get to know each other than to forge forward into a relationship solely based on sexual chemistry. For me, I would like just agree the timing was off, and its hard to go backwards in dating. Take a break, stay in touch, and maybe one day go out again, or just become friends if anything. But no bad feelings or thoughts.
rafallus Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 I'd probably make a mental note to keep things casual and not get commited at all costs. If they told me later, that they want to get exclusive, I'd just assume they're lying and turn them down (due to that mental note in effect). Crazy, I know.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 I'd probably make a mental note to keep things casual and not get commited at all costs. If they told me later, that they want to get exclusive, I'd just assume they're lying and turn them down (due to that mental note in effect). Crazy, I know. Then why waste your time? If you are looking for a LTR and you would never commit to this person, then why not just move on?
rafallus Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Because I'm fine with FWB situation, if there are no immediate relationship prospects in vicinty.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 Because I'm fine with FWB situation, if there are no immediate relationship prospects in vicinty. well if you are being honest about FWB, you would want to talk about it and agree to it, but I doubt this person would do that, nor would I. However if you did just not talk about it and kept it casual, would you care if she just had sex with you and 5 other guys. One of them has a nasty STD. I would be bothered.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Why wouldn't you consider them for a relationship? I think this is one case where being able to handle casual sex could work well. It was a fun night, a bit of a mistake, but you both realize you don't know each other and continue to date like before. No big deal? You both really don't like casual sex, but its more important to get to know each other than to forge forward into a relationship solely based on sexual chemistry. For me, I would like just agree the timing was off, and its hard to go backwards in dating. Take a break, stay in touch, and maybe one day go out again, or just become friends if anything. But no bad feelings or thoughts. weelll... never say never.... but once a man is firmly in FZ, it never goes back for me. And the scenario you mentioned seems a long ways from being resolved. Plus there are the competing values. Those same people usually have no problems finding lots of other willing people anyway. So it isn't like it was necessarily all that special for them. Easily distracted... those folks.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Author Posted September 4, 2011 weelll... never say never.... but once a man is firmly in FZ, it never goes back for me. And the scenario you mentioned seems a long ways from being resolved. Plus there are the competing values. Those same people usually have no problems finding lots of other willing people anyway. So it isn't like it was necessarily all that special for them. Easily distracted... those folks. I've been FZ'd before and then when I found a GF, they wanted to date me again. go figure. I think another way to think about it is people simply get caught up in the moment with sex. They do want a LTR and they want to take their time before making a decision. But for some strange reason it feels like you have been cheated on and yet you haven't. It would be interesting to see how fabulous LTR started? Did any start with love triangles, multi-dating and drama? Or was it simply, I like him, she likes me. He hung out and fell-in love with time and the trust was fabulous.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) I've been FZ'd before and then when I found a GF, they wanted to date me again. go figure. I think another way to think about it is people simply get caught up in the moment with sex. They do want a LTR and they want to take their time before making a decision. But for some strange reason it feels like you have been cheated on and yet you haven't. It would be interesting to see how fabulous LTR started? Did any start with love triangles, multi-dating and drama? Or was it simply, I like him, she likes me. He hung out and fell-in love with time and the trust was fabulous. My significant LTR's: 1) with ex-H for 10 years. Horrible, painful divorce. We were 'exclusive' from the beginning, but had sex way too early if you ask me. 2) Fiancee. I was voluntarily celibate for almost two years after my divorce. Dated for about 6 months before meeting him... and we dated for a month, seeing each other a couple of times a week... say 6 or 7 dates. Great relationship. 3) Proposal guy. I broke up with my BF (before he became my fiancee) to date the guy who proposed to me. My BF and I had dated for almost 5 years and he wouldn't commit. So I broke up with him when I became attracted to proposal guy. Ultimately, I broke up with proposal guy to accept my fiancee's proposal. So, perhaps proposal guy was actually 'rebound' guy?? I'll get around to telling you my story regarding proposal guy shortly... 4) most recent ex-BF. We kind of circled around each other for a month or so in a social group we were both a part of. Dated for an additional month after establishing a mutual attraction. We ended up dating for over a year. Great guy, but he was just too immature for me. 9 yrs younger. We are best friends now. All things considered... the best relationships were with ones where we waited past the so-called 3-4 date window. I really think it takes at least a month, preferably 2-3 if you can hold off that long. ok, proposal guy... after I said no and agreed to marry my fiancee... he met someone else. We managed to stay friends. We do alot of work together in my community. He is pretty high up politically. He was married a few years ago. (keep in mind that my fiancee died almost 5 yrs ago). Last night he happened to be in the neighborhood putting up yard signs for his upcoming election, and saw that I was home, and so gave me a call. No biggie. I invite him in... turns out his marriage is on the rocks and he wants to start things back up with me again. Tried to get me to kiss him and suggested we could have a little rendezvous in his office. He's married, obviously. The answer was a very polite no. So, it is good I said no to proposal man. He apparently thinks it is ok to step out on your spouse. I suppose I can't blame him for asking though. I did break up with my BF to date *him*. But I wasn't married. and there was no overlap. Edited September 5, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 ...one more thing... I was voluntarily celibate precisely to break the cycle we are debating over right now. The cycle of sex...THEN decide. As most people know by now... I was kind of wild-child when I met the man who would be my ex-H. After seeing those videos from the other thread, it explains why my marriage didn't work out. I wasn't the person I needed to be (yet) to attract the best kind of person. and my good decisions since then only seem to further underscore the value of my little exercise in discipline.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 Last night he happened to be in the neighborhood putting up yard signs for his upcoming election, and saw that I was home, and so gave me a call. No biggie. I invite him in... turns out his marriage is on the rocks and he wants to start things back up with me again. Tried to get me to kiss him and suggested we could have a little rendezvous in his office. He's married, obviously. The answer was a very polite no. Very good. He sounds like a pre-rebounder until the separation (if thats happens) Stay away from him would be my advice for now.
Author bluenightowl Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 ...one more thing... I was voluntarily celibate precisely to break the cycle we are debating over right now. The cycle of sex...THEN decide. As most people know by now... I was kind of wild-child when I met the man who would be my ex-H. What is a wild-child? Can you define it?
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 What is a wild-child? Can you define it? I could, but I'm not sure what it would add to the conversation.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 Very good. He sounds like a pre-rebounder until the separation (if thats happens) Stay away from him would be my advice for now. Can't really stay away from him. We still do work together in my community. He won't be invited into my home anytime soon though... unless there are a number of other people present. He texted me yesterday... kind of putting out the suggestion that I should think about it more and get back to him. He is REALLY persistent. I'm debating texting back and saying... Well, yes.. Let's set up a meeting between me, you, and your wife. If she agrees, then ok. I'm betting this is not the kind of arrangement he has in mind
Author bluenightowl Posted September 5, 2011 Author Posted September 5, 2011 I'm debating texting back and saying... Well, yes.. Let's set up a meeting between me, you, and your wife. If she agrees, then ok. Is he starts to get annoying than maybe say that. Its a bit harsh to me. Why not just say. - Sorry not interested. No need to ask again.
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