What in god's name is this girl thinking?

[dispatch3d]

You don't go after bosses because if something goes wrong they'll see to it you'll get fired. You don't go after doctors because it's against their code of ethics. You don't date your lawyer because of ethics. However, dating someone on the same level as you at work and it not working out? Big deal, you just have to deal with them on a professional basis. Only speak to them when you have to. I asked girls out that were in the same high school classes as me back in the day and sure it was awkward but big deal. All you have to do is not care about it and act normal. When I've done that everything has been ok for the most part.

 

"What's your male friend situation like? Do you have good male friends? This has been a problem for me and over the last year I have been working on that. One of the best things you can have is male contacts. Invitations to parties, introductions to female friends... You just need to invest some time in those friendships. It's certainly worked well for me in recent times."

I don't really hang out with any guys. I have lots of people that are "friends" (people I talk to online, know from school, know from the gym, know from softball) but outside of the normal places I see them I don't really do anything with them. I don't have anything to do with them that is mutually interesting. Outside of exercise related stuff the only things I really do are video games and reading and stuff like that. I don't drink alcohol so it would be kind of pointless to be going to parties.

The only two friends I really hang out with don't live here anymore. Both of them live about two hours away and if I go to visit them all we really do is go out to eat, watch movies and play video games.

 

Follow my reasoning with me here.

 

1. Alcohol Makes people horny

2. There is alcohol at parties

3. Girls go to parties

4. Some girls may drink the alcohol in (1)

 

As for not getting invited to any parties, would you go to a party even if you were invited?

[dispatch3d]

dispatch3d: Yeah, you're right, I didn't do anything bad enough to warrant an apology. Being a facebook stalker for her number and using it without asking her and responding by saying douche-y/desperate things like "ok then..." and "well I guess that means no. Bye" are the things I feel bad/stupid about, but they aren't bad enough to to apologize over. If I had freaked out and cussed her out or something I would probably apologize for that though.

 

Ok then. Well I guess that means you don't want advice. Bye.

 

Just seeing what it's like to act douche-y/desperate. Seriously wtf hahaha. You make this **** too easy .

 

I just want to apologize to the board for my (1) lack of confidence (2) insecure behaviour.

[robertdawson]

Yes, I would go to a party if I was invited as long as I wasn't expected to drink. You do realize that it is wrong to be physical with someone while they're drunk right? If they're drunk and you have sex with them that is actually something called "rape". If both of you are drunk then it is statutory rape.

 

I don't apologize to people unless I feel I've been an ***hole to them, and I only do that when I didn't have a right to be an ***hole at the time. If someone deserves to get treated badly then no apology. On second thought, the texts I sent weren't all that douche-y to begin with, just awkward. Nevermind. Now if I had cussed her out that is a different story.

Edited September 4, 2011 by robertdawson

[Easyguy14]

Easyguy14: No, I don't think older women (late 20s, early 30s) generally go for 22 year old college students.

 

actually you're wrong. you're not gonna know if you dont try. people are here giving you all kinds of advice so you need to try them all out.

[robertdawson]

Easyguy14: Ok then, how do I try? I just told everyone that the eHarmony thing I did couldn't find anyone within 200 miles.

 

I tried something new by going to a bar yesterday (like Zaphod B's suggestion, although his suggestion certainly wasn't the driving factor behind that (I was bored)) and I posted my experience with that but nobody has had anything to say about that yet.

Edited September 4, 2011 by robertdawson

[Disillusioned_Wife]

You know what it is, you are trying too hard. Even pushing to hard. You are giving off "desperation" vibes to the ladies you are talking to.

 

Like some of the other posters, relax, take your time. Rome wasn't built in a day and women are extremely turned off by (well anyone is) pushiness or trying to hard. Act like you don't care, I say one can never care too much personally, but act like you don't. Be breezy, relaxed, self confidence goes a long way. Even if you don't feel confident, act it. You know that saying "smile even if you don't feel like it, eventually it turns into a real smile".

 

The more experience you gain in self confidence the more self confidence you put out there. Don't go over board either, too much and you come off as a self centered douche.

 

Us women are complicated aren't we (that's an understatement). At the end of the day, if the lady ignores you probably not a lady you want to be with anyway. Bottom line, take your time.

[robertdawson]

Disillusioned_Wife: Yeah, you could definitely be right. However, I said earlier for about 3 years that I didn't even try to get a girlfriend. I had said to myself the only way I was going to ask a girl out is if she gave me some clear signals and none ever did. What was going on there?

[CambridgeGirl]

Not read all of this, just first and last page but I sense that you're super frustrated because you're surrounded by girls but aren't having luck so far at getting into dating. If a girl acknowledges you and smiles, she could just be being friendly, because she may have tons of male and female friends, and has no idea what a girl simply smiling at you means to you specifically. It's not a big deal to her. You can't punish her because for you it immediately meant more, or assume she added you to FB because she is attracted to you. People with many hundreds of FB friends generally have that many because they add all kinds of people they don't know closely. So that was another clue maybe?

 

You do seem a tad desperate and kinda angry with it, not a winning combo in attracting a nice girl, try relaxing, assume a friendly chat isn't a chance to pester them romantically and just let things happen slowly. Chill out and look at the guys around you who aren't failing, observe what they do. You're obviously smart, take a step back and think. What are you studying? What career do you aim to follow out of interest?

[robertdawson]

So you don't think that exchange at the club meeting was anything more than being friendly? Oh god, that makes this even worse. Instead of at least receiving some attention and then blowing it I never got any in the first place and then proceeded to make yet another person thing I'm crazy. I don't know what else to do. Maybe I could save myself some embarrassment, quit trying and just accept I'm one of those people who it won't ever happen for. I'm exhausted from trying.

 

How do you let some things happen slowly? I would never see that girl again and even if I did it wouldn't be anything more than passing in the hall for a couple seconds. The only chance I had was getting contact information then..

 

How do you observe what other guys are doing? You aren't going to be around when they ask a girl out or are on a date, you just see the successful ones walking around with girls hugging all over them.

 

"What are you studying? What career do you aim to follow out of interest?" Computers, but that doesn't matter.

Edited September 4, 2011 by robertdawson

[Zaphod B]

Good on ya Robert for putting yourself out there. Yeah I can understand your worry that people might get pissed off if you play pool against them sober while they're all enebriated. But it sounds to me like nobody cared too much. Might be a different story if you were playing for money perhaps. Most people in bars are just out for a good time and appreciate the social aspect of it too.

 

From where I come from no one seems to care whether you're drinking alcohol or not. At least the places I go to. And if you buy a drink in a glass often it's hard to tell whether it's alcoholic or not just by looking at it. I'll go into a bar sometimes and get a Lemon Lime and Bitters and no one will even look twice. I do pub poker, I do pub quizes and also have done a bit of karaoke when I had a female friend who was into it. I was never much of a bar guy myself, but ever since they outlawed smoking in bars here, I've started to visit them more, but mainly if there's something going on like the poker, stand up comedy and stuff like that.

 

Having said that though I do go to a favourite bar/club of mine every second Sat night. Originally, I would just go in alone, like you and it always felt awkward. At least until I got out of my comfort zone and started talking to people. Now women recognise me and smile and say hi because they know I'm a decent guy, even though they may not be romantically interested in me. I've recieved the odd hug and even a few dances.

 

One of the things I found early on was that there were other single guys there looking awkward too, so I'd just roll up and say "You on your own? Mind if I join you? That way we'll both feel like we're here with a friend." And they'd always welcome it and it would be someone to talk to until I saw a woman I wanted to converse with. But it's cool because you can go talk to a chick and then return later to sit back down with your "friend". One of those guys became one of my three friends I was telling you about, because we both loved the bar and came in regularly.

 

But I know, this is all about bars, which is not your scene, but just sharing some of my experiences and how it worked for me and how you can get over the feeling like a loser by interacting with people and it seemed you did last night. If you went there again you might find some of the same people who you've already broken the ice with.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Zaphod B

[dispatch3d]

Yes, I would go to a party if I was invited as long as I wasn't expected to drink. You do realize that it is wrong to be physical with someone while they're drunk right? If they're drunk and you have sex with them that is actually something called "rape". If both of you are drunk then it is statutory rape.

 

I don't apologize to people unless I feel I've been an ***hole to them, and I only do that when I didn't have a right to be an ***hole at the time. If someone deserves to get treated badly then no apology. On second thought, the texts I sent weren't all that douche-y to begin with, just awkward. Nevermind. Now if I had cussed her out that is a different story.

 

Dude guys have sex with drunk girls all the time. Girls have sex with drunk guys as well. Chill out on rape accusations damn .

[Zaphod B]

Oh and don't get all paranoid about boyfriends and stuff. If a woman isn't with a guy, you can't know she's taken unless she has a ring on her finger or says she is.

[Zaphod B]

I'll tell you an amusing story of mine, Robert. It was at my favourite bar and I'd joined this guy I didn't know so I wouldn't feel like a loser sitting on my own. We were talking and then this other guy comes in with this really drunk but reasonably hot woman. They come to the table we were sharing (it's a very busy bar and there is a long table which people just come up to, stand at and drink.) This drunk chick was very friendly and flirty and I'm thinking. "Whoa, here she is with this guy and she's flirting with me and this other guy right in front of him! And he doesn't even care! What's with that?" I'm thinking.

 

Well anyway this chick continues to flirt and her guy doesn't seem to give a ****. Then she starts trying to get me and the other guy to hold each other's hands. She grabs both our hands and tries to join them up. LOL. And I'm jerking my hand away saying "No way!" And she gets quite pissed off that me and this guy weren't going to hold each other's hand. I'm thinking at this stage, ok, this chick wants a threesome or a foursome or something and wants her guys to get it on with each other as well. There's no way I'm going for that, even if she was sweltering hot!

 

In the end she gets so pissed off with the both of us she gives up.

 

It turned out that the guy she was with was her brother. Ha ha.

 

It was nice to get that brief attention from a cute woman even though she was screwed in the head.

 

What's the point of this story? Well, simply that you can't jump to conclusions about women in bars and whether they're taken or not. You just take pot luck and see what happens.

Edited September 4, 2011 by Zaphod B

[Cypress25]

No one cares if you drink or not. I often hang out in places where they serve alcohol and I never feel awkward about it. I just get a soda and have a good time. Bonus: many bars will let you have a free soda if they assume you're the designated driver.

 

It was a little hard to follow your story, but it sounds like the unattached girl was interested in you. She was probably hoping you'd teach her how to play pool. How come you didn't ask for her number?

[AHardDaysNight]

You acted desperate, and that made her uncomfortable.

 

Something about desperation turns off every single girl in the world. I should know, I've turned off every single girl through desperation.

[robertdawson]

Cypress25: I don't have time to answer right now but I'll get back to you.

[robertdawson]

Cypress25: Ok, so yeah, she came up and was like "I want to try now!" (maybe an exclamation point is an exaggeration but whatever). So I gave her the cue stick and she asked me how you hold it, etc. I just told her the different ways you could hold it and told her about hitting the cue ball and angles and such. She did that and then kind of went back over and sat down. The next two shots of mine I held up the cue stick and asked if she wanted to go again and she did both times. She got frustrated the last time because she missed it really badly and so she just knocked the ball in with the cue stick. When she did this the old drunk guy (who was STILL hanging around at this point) acted all pissy like she had committed a cardinal sin and then her and her friend went to the bathroom and the girl's boyfriend walked off.

 

I wandered around and came back later and the two girls were getting ready to leave and I went up to the one and asked her where her boyfriend was. Then I started trying to talk to the one I thought was cute by asking her what her major was. After like 10 attempts she finally heard me (at this point the music was really loud). Then when the boyfriend came back her and her friend just kind of followed him and walked off without really saying anything to me. I assumed since she didn't even tell me where they were going that she was done talking to me.

 

I didn't want to make it look like I was following her around but I did kind of hope to "bump into her" again and continue talking. So, I went outside for a couple minutes and came back in. When I came back in I talked to the boyfriend for a minute or so and then saw the guy I knew sitting there talking to him. I started talking with that guy a little and it appeared to me like the girl was looking at me (she was behind him at the bar) while I was talking but I didn't say anything to her. I guess I assumed she was just looking because a new conversation had started OR that she was thinking "oh god, this guy followed me up here to the bar, please don't talk to me".

After the guy I knew left I went a few feet over and just leaned up against a table and started listening to the music. A minute or so after the guy, his girlfriend and her left. As she was walking out I looked over in that direction and she waved at me.

 

So, I guess the answer to your question about why I didn't get her number is that I thought once she walked off without saying anything ("we're going to the bar", "well, bye" or anything at all) that she wasn't interested. But you are right, once she came over and wanted to try her hand at pool I thought she was warming up to me. In fact, I was pretty close to being bold and trying to make some sort of physical contact with her while showing her how to play, like moving her hand or elbow in the right position but I didn't want to risk it. In retrospect, should I have done this?

Should I have also restarted the conversation with her at the bar, or am I correct in thinking that it would be bad to look like I was following her?

 

I really hope I see her around campus. In retrospect I guess I should have taken a chance and asked her anyway, but like I said I didn't want to look like I was following her. Heck, maybe that is what she wanted though. There's a billards place around that is more family oriented and it would be a perfect suggestion. Ex: "Hey, what's up? So how did you like your first experience at such_and_such bar? Well, hey, you seemed like you were starting to get the hang of pool the other day. I0f you want to play some more there is a place not far from here. It's a little more family oriented so I don't think there will be any old drunk guys around to get mad at you (reference to what happened)".

 

I'm almost considering talking to that guy I know from softball and seeing how to get in contact with the boyfriend I was playing with. Once I get in contact with the boyfriend I'd ask him if there was some way I could get his girlfriend's friend's number. But.... this is a bad idea, isn't it? Stalkerish right?

[Cypress25]

I started talking with that guy a little and it appeared to me like the girl was looking at me (she was behind him at the bar) while I was talking but I didn't say anything to her.

 

This is when you should have asked for her number. She was looking at you, probably trying to get your attention. You ignored her. Don't make that mistake again.

[Zaphod B]

Flirting with her a bit would have been good. So yeah, helping her get the queue in the right position would have been good.

 

I think you did ok though. Not sure about seeing your friend about getting her number. But you could certainly talk to him and tell him your regrets of not getting her number and see what his reaction is.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Zaphod B

[ChessPieceFace]

Girl #1 feels perfectly happy to say things indicating she is obsessive or stalking you, but when you got her phone number available on her FB page you freaked her out.

 

Girl #2 you freaked her out by asking for her info, maybe it's the way you said it.

 

Stop thinking women will think logically. They don't. They only think in woman-think. A mixture of emotions and thought. Women have a lesser intellect whose main purpose is to justify their emotion-based actions.

 

Learn whatever lessons you can and move on. And bear in mind that if a woman is interested in you, she will almost definitely hunt you down and find you. Asking for info quickly is just not necessary most of the time. If you do it, figure out how to phrase it in a way that won't freak out the weak-minded terrified women out there. Or, just accept that these idiots weren't worth your time (the first one was definitely a mess anyway.) I've dealt personally with neurotic women like #1 and god, you're better off without them.

[robertdawson]

Cypress25: So you don't have any thoughts about this:

"Then when the boyfriend came back her and her friend just kind of followed him and walked off without saying anything to me. I assumed since she didn't even tell me where they were going that she was done talking to me."

"I didn't want to make it look like I was following her around"

"I started talking with that guy a little and it appeared to me like the girl was looking at me (she was behind him at the bar) while I was talking but I didn't say anything to her. I guess I assumed she was just looking because... she was thinking "oh god, this guy is following me, please don't talk to me"."

If she hadn't walked off without saying anything it would have been a different story.

 

Anyway:

"As she was walking out I looked over in that direction and she waved at me." In retrospect, I probably should have stopped her there: "wait a minute. I never caught your name. [exchange names]. Well, hey, there's a family billards place near here, we should go next weekend [waits for response]. What's your phone number?"

 

Also, this: "I'm almost considering talking to that guy I know from softball and seeing how to get in contact with the boyfriend I was playing with. Once I get in contact with the boyfriend I'd ask him if there was some way I could get his girlfriend's friend's number. But.... this is a bad idea, isn't it? Stalkerish right?" Thoughts?

 

Zaphod B: In retrospect, yes, I could have done that. I don't think it was a massive screw-up though. The guy I know from softball plays on a different team so I don't actually have his contact information. If I really wanted to their game starts an hour before my team's starts on Wednesday so I could go by and talk to him there. What do you think about this Cypress25?

 

After she got frustrated and knocked the ball in with the cue stick she told me "I think the old guy got mad that I cheated" somewhat jokingly to which I replied "eh, whatever. You got it in right!?" and initiated a high five. Not nearly as flirty or sexual as helping her hand position but still was something I guess, right?

 

ChessPieceFace: Well, yeah, when I told my friend that she had said "I see you everywhere" and that whole exchange his response was "damn dude, she is into you!" When I told him what happened about her not responding he was just like "yeah, she was leading you on just a little bit". I told him I thought using her number without asking might have scared her off and he was like "honestly I think if she was really interested she wouldn't have cared".

 

" Women have a lesser intellect whose main purpose is to justify their emotion-based actions." Dude, you had some decent advice up until this point. I don't think I can take you seriously anymore after this. Women do think with their emotions but they aren't less intelligent.

[Imageiko]

"As she was walking out I looked over in that direction and she waved at me." In retrospect, I probably should have stopped her there: "wait a minute. I never caught your name. [exchange names]. Well, hey, there's a family billards place near here, we should go next weekend [waits for response]. What's your phone number?"

 

You absolutely should have done this cause it would have worked. You've got the ability to approach a situation well you just have to be direct and pull the trigger. The more you dither and beat around the bush the tougher time you are going to have. Also if you take her out for pool again make sure you teach her properly how to hold the cue etc.

[Cypress25]

If she hadn't walked off without saying anything it would have been a different story.

 

She was flirting with you all night. She kept talking to you and waving at you. Were you waiting for her to ask you out? She probably thought she gave you plenty of opportunities to ask for her number, but you never did.

[robertdawson]

Cypress25: Well, I was under the impression she was NOT flirting with me all night. Maybe I misinterpreted the situation or maybe I told the story wrong.

 

So, I'll try again. Her and her friend were off to the side and I asked them if they wanted to play. The girlfriend of the other guy said "ok yeah I'll play" and the girl I thought was cute said "no I've never played before, I'm not any good" to which I replied: "well, you gotta try to get better" or something like that. She just said "well, I'll just cheer you on". However, the way she said it came off to me like "Ok, maybe if I say this he will leave me alone" (defensive). She didn't say it excited or anything. Probably like 20 minutes later I said "you sure you don't want to play?" and she said "no, I'm not any good and I'm getting tired". Her friend made the good shot and she cheered for her and then I tried to joke with her by saying "I thought you were cheering for me..". She was like "well, she's my friend. I'll cheer for you too."

 

A few minutes later when I was shooting she did some little cheer and then I did the worst scratch ever, so I said jokingly "maybe you shouldn't cheer for me anymore after that.."

After 15 minutes after this I made a comment about how both of her friends were playing and she responded again with "I'm not any good". This time I said "well you can't do any worse than me" and she just didn't say anything. A few minutes later she asked me if I was a student and what year I was. 10-15 minutes after that is when she came up and said she wanted to try (I guess she could see the game was almost over and she wouldn't have another chance).

 

Long story short, it appeared to me as she was not flirting with me at all most of the time. In fact, I thought she was being cautious and defensive like some women are in bars not to say anything that would directly piss off a potentially crazy drunk guy (e.g. turn them down nicely instead of flat out rejection). The only times I thought she may have been warming up to me was when she 1) cheered for me, 2) asked me about if I went to the university and 3) came over and wanted to try to a couple shots.

 

1 and 2 I just thought she was being friendly (remember the second girl in my original post, the girl I talked to in the cafeteria started? She initiated conversation with me, asking me what my name was, my major and what year I was but then acted all weird when I asked for her contact information) and 3 I actually did think was more than being friendly. Like I said, I was really close to trying to position her hand in the right bridge position or moving her elbow to the right position but I guess I wanted to be cautious and not risk coming on too strong.... :-/ probably something I should have risked in retrospect. Like I already said, when she waved bye that was a good chance to try and say "wait up for a sec" but I guess I just couldn't think fast enough on my feet.

 

Cypress25: Obviously different women flirt differently and each situation is unique, but is there something glaringly obvious that I overlooked? Was there a certain point during this exchange that I should have gone ahead and asked for her number (e.g. after she cheered me on, after she asked about pool, etc.)? Was it reasonable to assume she was being defensive like I said I thought she was being? If so, should I have ignored that anyway and taken the risk? Damnit...... I really hope I see her around campus so I can take her out...

 

Imageiko: Yeah, I should have done that. I guess I just came up with that thinking about it in retrospect but couldn't think of that on the fly while it was going on. I guess I was still feeling like she thought I was following her or something.. but once she waved at me I should have IGNORED whatever analyzation/overanalyzation was going through my head and asked her anyway. I hope to see her again but perhaps the next time something like this happens I can think fast and get a number..

Edited September 5, 2011 by robertdawson

[Cypress25]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe she really doesn't know how to play pool? That wasn't her way of saying she's not interested in you, she was just being honest. That was your chance to say "Here, I'll teach you." It doesn't sound like she was being defensive at all.