Being in an affair robs you of your self-esteem?

[SBC]

I have been cruising the forums for quite a while, and I have seen people post that being in affair robs you of your self esteem. How is that possible?

 

I can understand people having low self esteem being in an affair, but the affair itself robbing someone of their esteem --that doesn't seem right to me.

 

Thoughts?

[MorningCoffee]

I have been cruising the forums for quite a while, and I have seen people post that being in affair robs you of your self esteem. How is that possible?

 

I can understand people having low self esteem being in an affair, but the affair itself robbing someone of their esteem --that doesn't seem right to me.

 

Thoughts?

 

I can only speak for myself, but here are my thoughts:

 

Except the rare case where the married partner is in an open marriage, an affair involves a necessary degree to which one must accept that deception and lying is going on. For me, it was not so much the fact she was lying to her H (that was on her) as it was, over time, that I went along with it to get something out of it, i.e., time with her. So I was lowering my own standards of honesty. Not good for self-esteem.

 

Second, it was emasculating (again over time in small increments) that as a guy, I could not do the usual things when in a normal dating relationship with a woman -- call her up, make plans, give her a holiday gift or birthday card, arrange special dates, share holidays, etc. Instead I could only wait on her calls, on times when she could see me, and all of that. This gradually eroded my sense of manhood. Not good.

 

Last, I was in love, and yet could not reveal the relationship, let alone introduce her, to my friends and family. Not a healthy way to conduct a relationship, and these circumstances over time create a feeling of a shrinking existence.

 

I finally had to just say I want a relationship, not an affair.

[SBC]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply MorningCoffee. I get everything you said, but something led you to begin in affair in the first place, and while being in the affair may have contributed to these feelings --something inside already said this was what you were worthy of. Don't you think?

 

I am in an affair, that has recently and surprisingly made a turn towards becoming more of a real relationship, but I see now that it had no chance of doing that until I faced that I already had low self esteem that was brought about by issues which had nothing to do with being in the affair. Once I began to address my issues of low self esteem --issues that I formerly attributed to being in the affair, the affair started to change. And, even if the affair had not started to change, I would have not been so upset about it anyway because, well, I had improved my self esteem.

 

So, I am thinking that so much suffering is brought on not by the affair, but by using the affair as a way to escape facing the deeper issues of low self esteem. Maybe?

[Quiet Storm]

I think it is because over time, the affair partners expectations get lowered. They end up being okay with treatment that would never be acceptable from a single partner.

 

The married one often starts out by showering the affair partner with loads of attention. Usually a lot of talking and texting, and the affair partner enjoys and looks forward to these interactions.

 

The number of interactions usually dwindles over time and is often peppered with periods of not hearing from the married person, or they don't call when they say they will, etc. They disappoint the affair partner, and don't keep their word on things.

 

Instead of recognizing that they are not getting the attention they need and deserve in a relationship, the affair partner will usually sympathize with the married person's excuses for the limited or delayed contact. The affair partner rationalizes it, and spins the situation to make it easier to live with. The affair partners expecations get lower and lower, and soon they are elated to receive one text, they are excited about one day together, they are content with far less than they deserve. Over time, accepting less than what you deserve can result in low self esteem.

 

Often, an affair goes against the affair partners core values. They love the married person, but hate the situation. They don't really want to be in affair. They are not proud of it. They often hide the fact that their "boyfriend" is married, indicating that they are ashamed. They are alone on holidays, excluded from their lover's events and celebrations. This can often make the affair partner feel marginalized.

 

When a person does something that is contrary to their values, something happens within them that allows them to continue to behave in ways that are against their moral standards. It's called cognitive dissonance. It is when you subconsiously change your values and lower your standards, so that you can continue to do what you want without being overwhelmed with guilt. It's creates an environment where you lie to yourself, and push down your doubts. It is an unhealthy way to cope with a situation that you are not happy about.

 

If you are fine with cheating and lying, or are content with an affair's limitations, this would not apply to you and your self esteem will probably not be affected.

[Summer Breeze]

I have been cruising the forums for quite a while, and I have seen people post that being in affair robs you of your self esteem. How is that possible?

 

I can understand people having low self esteem being in an affair, but the affair itself robbing someone of their esteem --that doesn't seem right to me.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think people can get lost in Rs. I think that people who tend to lose themselves in any R do the same in an A. I may be wrong but it seems like a lot of OW/OM tend to allow the balance of power get away from them in every R. I believe people lose their self esteem when they allow the balance to be 'permanently' skewed to the other partner. The dynamics of an A allow the WS to normally have that power. If the OW/OM allow it to go then they have lost themselves and I would imagine their self esteem as well.

[SBC]

 

The number of interactions usually dwindles over time and is often peppered with periods of not hearing from the married person, or they don't call when they say they will, etc. They disappoint the affair partner, and don't keep their word on things.

 

Instead of recognizing that they are not getting the attention they need and deserve in a relationship, the affair partner will usually sympathize with the married person's excuses for the limited or delayed contact. The affair partner rationalizes it, and spins the situation to make it easier to live with. The affair partners expecations get lower and lower, and soon they are elated to receive one text, they are excited about one day together, they are content with far less than they deserve. Over time, accepting less than what you deserve can result in low self esteem.

 

.

 

But this would be the dynamic in ANY relationship --because what I see happen so often (even in my own case) instead of saying "F-YOU BUDDY!" we say, "whine, why aren't you calling me?" or "whimper, why aren't you texting me?" and "but I love you!" and so and so on.

 

In other words we get needy. And then we turn into cling-ons. And no one wants a cling on.

 

What changed the dynamic for me was when I faced my inner demons.

 

Why the hell was I so desperate for this (or any) guy's attention? Well, I had lots and lots of issues to work though --a divorce, fear and plenty of childhood BS, but as I slowly and painfully addressed these, something in my life changed. I began to get strong. And interesting. Not only to MM, but to other men as well --and that is when everything changed.

 

So, I posit that the affair does not cause the initial erosion of self esteem, but that there are deeper issues that lead us into temptation.

[MorningCoffee]

I think it is because over time, the affair partners expectations get lowered. They end up being okay with treatment that would never be acceptable from a single partner.

 

The married one often starts out by showering the affair partner with loads of attention. Usually a lot of talking and texting, and the affair partner enjoys and looks forward to these interactions.

 

The number of interactions usually dwindles over time and is often peppered with periods of not hearing from the married person, or they don't call when they say they will, etc. They disappoint the affair partner, and don't keep their word on things.

 

Instead of recognizing that they are not getting the attention they need and deserve in a relationship, the affair partner will usually sympathize with the married person's excuses for the limited or delayed contact. The affair partner rationalizes it, and spins the situation to make it easier to live with. The affair partners expecations get lower and lower, and soon they are elated to receive one text, they are excited about one day together, they are content with far less than they deserve. Over time, accepting less than what you deserve can result in low self esteem.

 

Often, an affair goes against the affair partners core values. They love the married person, but hate the situation. They don't really want to be in affair. They are not proud of it. They often hide the fact that their "boyfriend" is married, indicating that they are ashamed. They are alone on holidays, excluded from their lover's events and celebrations. This can often make the affair partner feel marginalized.

 

When a person does something that is contrary to their values, something happens within them that allows them to continue to behave in ways that are against their moral standards. It's called cognitive dissonance. It is when you subconsiously change your values and lower your standards, so that you can continue to do what you want without being overwhelmed with guilt. It's creates an environment where you lie to yourself, and push down your doubts. It is an unhealthy way to cope with a situation that you are not happy about.

 

If you are fine with cheating and lying, or are content with an affair's limitations, this would not apply to you and your self esteem will probably not be affected.

 

Well said.

[spice4life]

I completely agree with morningcoffee and would like to add on if I may. An A stops you from expressing emotions that you would in a normal relationship. You are forced to "stuff" them because in many cases the MP will not allow you to go there because they won't - they are not planning to leave. They are happy where they are and only want the A to fill the gaps of what they aren't getting at home. So, you have to hold them in, all of the good bad and ugly feelings, which over time, begins to build up and chip away at the core of who you are. It begins to create bad messages in your head that play over and over that you are sacrificing your own needs and wants to be in the relationship. You feel slighted or cheated in a sense. Over time, as morning coffee said, you begin to feel like you're lowering your standards and eventually, it makes you feel like your not worthy or good enough.

 

Emotions are normal and need to be expressed, that's the law of nature. What goes in must come out to stay healthy and balanced. If you can't express your emotions, they start creating their form of expression (usually negative) and it chips away at your self esteem. I am beginning to realize also, that holding in emotions during an A, is the biggest contributor to the fog we experience. The fog is emotions not expressed. It can make you depressed too...severly depressed!

Edited September 1, 2011 by spice4life

[SBC]

. An A stops you from expressing emotions that you would in a normal relationship. You are forced to "stuff" them because in many cases the MP will not allow you to go there because they won't - they are not planning to leave. They are happy where they are and only want the A to fill the gaps of what they aren't getting at home. So, you have to hold them in, all of the good bad and ugly feelings, which over time, begins to build up and chip away at the core of who you are. !

 

But can't you see that this is a choice? No one "forces" you to do anything.

 

And making this (bad) choice is based on low self esteem --that was already firmly entrenched before the affair ever began.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to say that I think people need to look deeper than the affair for the source of their misery. The affair is a symptom is low self esteem, it is not the malady. I learned this the hard way.

[Quiet Storm]

I just saw your reply to the other poster, and I do agree that there is something that makes certain people vulnerable to affairs.

 

Some people thrive on external validation, and rely on attention from others to make them feel special.

 

Some people have endured bad treatment or abuse from others in their lives, and think it is normal or deserved.

 

But many times, I think people end up in affairs simply because they are naive. They already know that they are special. They were raised in an environment where you could trust people, and take others words at face value. They were raised with the belief that people are kind to each other, and considerate of other's feelings.

 

When a married man confides in her about an unhappy marriage, when he is charming and attentive, she takes that attention as a sincere interest in her, as a person. Often, the married man has cast many lines and is just waiting to see who bites. He is not looking at her as a person with her own dreams and feelings, but as a means to meet his needs.

 

Some OW are totally devasted when they discover his lies. They are absolutely shocked when he chooses his miserable marriage over her. They really believed that MM will be faithful to them.

 

This has more to do with being naive or young, then low self esteem, IMO.

 

They are not looking at the facts of this man's life to judge his character (he is a cheater and a liar).

 

They only judge his character by the way he acts with them (sweet, caring, charming).

 

I feel that OW like this set themselves up for heartbreak, by overlooking important clues. Their actions are based on their emotions, and not on logic. Feeling an emotion, and not acting on it, but just "letting it be" and allowing it to pass until you can think more clearly, is a sign of maturity.

[Circular]

I can see where you question comes from but I think it's situational and like all things you can't force fit one hypothesis onto the set of all circumstances.

 

I'm sure there are many cases where self-esteem plays a central role in starting an A. I know in my case it wasn't about self-esteem it was about having a connection with someone, having someone that knew me well, understood me well at a very personal level that created a unique closeness. I wasn't looking for an A, nor was she, but it happened because we both reached a point where we realized we were getting in deep and didn't want to give-up what we had. I don't really have any trace-backs that tell me it was rooted in self-esteem.

[MorningCoffee]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply MorningCoffee. I get everything you said, but something led you to begin in affair in the first place, and while being in the affair may have contributed to these feelings --something inside already said this was what you were worthy of. Don't you think?

 

I am in an affair, that has recently and surprisingly made a turn towards becoming more of a real relationship, but I see now that it had no chance of doing that until I faced that I already had low self esteem that was brought about by issues which had nothing to do with being in the affair. Once I began to address my issues of low self esteem --issues that I formerly attributed to being in the affair, the affair started to change. And, even if the affair had not started to change, I would have not been so upset about it anyway because, well, I had improved my self esteem.

 

So, I am thinking that so much suffering is brought on not by the affair, but by using the affair as a way to escape facing the deeper issues of low self esteem. Maybe?

 

Well, I won't argue. Maybe for some getting into an affair is more an issue of self-esteem than it was for me.

 

But for me, I had been happily and faithfully married for decades before my W passed away. When I was back socializing and dating as a 50-something widower, I had to start over as if I was 19 as far as dating goes, and I had some good and some not so good experiences, but all perfectly normal.

 

The affair I slid into because I had zero knowledge of boundaries, and so I dealt inappropriately with a woman I was attracted to even though I knew she was taken. THAT was where my error was, not low self-esteem. I thought I could handle a fling, which was all I thought it would be. Surprised us both to fall in love.

 

The corrosion of self-esteem was a byproduct of my conscious choice in moving forward with an affair. Never again. Way too painful.

[SBC]

Quiet Storm, I take your point and agree. I would not say a lot, but some do start out that way.

 

But what I am really addressing here is what often I read on these forums --it is a lot of blaming shifting. He is bad for having done that! Why did he do this? If only he hadn't done whatever. And then lots of boo hooing ensues.

 

So, instead of figuring out why they got into this situation in the first place, and owning whatever it is that makes them cling desperately to this poisonous relationship, it is easier to hold on and just suffer as a victim. --and this is why so many OW never get their MM's.

 

Once I accepted that MY problems were mine (my self esteem problems were MINE --not a result of the affair, but mine and only I could fix them) new doors opened for me and I could begin to focus on something other than my MM and the affair. Once I shifted my focus off my MM and the affair is when his focus shifted back to me. I became an interesting person with interesting things outside of the affair.

 

And now, I have choices. Him or others --but I am no longer stuck.

[spice4life]

But can't you see that this is a choice? No one "forces" you to do anything.

 

And making this (bad) choice is based on low self esteem --that was already firmly entrenched before the affair ever began.

 

I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just trying to say that I think people need to look deeper than the affair for the source of their misery. The affair is a symptom is low self esteem, it is not the malady. I learned this the hard way.

 

I am the first to admit that I was in a very vulnerable place when I landed in my A. The whole experience forced me to look at myself more closely. I decided to go to therapy and worked on my issues, improved my self esteem and the end result was me ending my A. I didn't blame him and I accepted full responsibilty for my choices and decided those choices were not congruent with who I am now. It didn't improve the dynamic in my A at all. If anything, it brought out the real "him" - he ended up admitting he was a cake eater. I accepted that and said "thanks, but no thanks." This not what "I" want for myself and walked away.

 

You can't really pigeon hole everyone based on your own experience. Your improved self esteem had a positive impact on your A - mine didn't. What happened with you does not happen for everyone who gains back their self esteem.

[SBC]

I can see where you question comes from but I think it's situational and like all things you can't force fit one hypothesis onto the set of all circumstances.

 

I'm sure there are many cases where self-esteem plays a central role in starting an A. I know in my case it wasn't about self-esteem it was about having a connection with someone, having someone that knew me well, understood me well at a very personal level that created a unique closeness. I wasn't looking for an A, nor was she, but it happened because we both reached a point where we realized we were getting in deep and didn't want to give-up what we had. I don't really have any trace-backs that tell me it was rooted in self-esteem.

 

Fair enough. I am not addressing everyone here, or saying this shoe fits every foot. But there are some strong similarities that I see running through many threads here...I place I was very much at at one point. I think you can understand where I am coming from.

[SBC]

I am the first to admit that I was in a very vulnerable place when I landed in my A. The whole experience forced me to look at myself more closely. I decided to go to therapy and worked on my issues, improved my self esteem and the end result was me ending my A. I didn't blame him and I accepted full responsibilty for my choices and decided those choices were not congruent with who I am now. It didn't improve the dynamic in my A at all. If anything, it brought out the real "him" - he ended up admitting he was a cake eater. I accepted that and said "thanks, but no thanks." This not what "I" want for myself and walked away.

 

You can't really pigeon hole everyone based on your own experience. Your improved self esteem had a positive impact on your A - mine didn't. What happened with you does not happen for everyone who gains back their self esteem.

 

Oh, I totally agree! That is why I did not title this thread "How to win your MM" or something like that. But in the end, something good did happen for you by improving your self esteem --you were able to walk away. You are not stuck any more either --and that, that is a wonderful thing.

[Circular]

I will say of course the way the A came to close (no d-day, I walked away) my self esteem did take a hammering and I was surprised at what came up for me in many ways.

 

As much as its pained me it has been also good as it opened my eyes to some things about myself and my M that a light needed to be shined on and allow me to understand why I made the decisions I made and start addressing the things in my M that were part of the problem.

[spice4life]

Oh, and by the way, I was never clingy during my A. I'm not a clingy person, as a matter of fact, quite the opposite. So again, you can't put everyone into the same mold as you. A's start for many different reasons and yours happen to start because you had low self esteem. That's not the case for everyone.

 

One more thing, don't mistake venting emotions and healing on this board as placing blame. mourning the loss of an A is the same as mourning any other loss. They are normal emotions and eventually the person comes to "aceptance".

[no expectations]

I have been cruising the forums for quite a while, and I have seen people post that being in affair robs you of your self esteem. How is that possible?

 

I can understand people having low self esteem being in an affair, but the affair itself robbing someone of their esteem --that doesn't seem right to me.

 

Thoughts?

 

I hope this doesn't come across as an excuse because I assure you its not one. I own what I did regardless of how I got there. I think you are correct in that the actual affair doesn't rob you of your self esteem. They definitely lower your self esteem but to say that I had healthy self esteem prior to my affair would be incorrect. I have struggled with low self esteem ever since my dad left when I was very young. My belief at a young age was that I wasn't worth staying around for. Through individual counseling I've learned that I've tried to recreate that relationship through people that are emotionally unavailable including someone who was married. The goal is to get them to finally stay. But its a self fulfilling prophecy...I choose people that will leave so I've recreated my dad leaving all over again and that lowers my self esteem even more. The affair just re-confirmed that I was not worth staying for...blah, blah, blah...its a vicious cycle and I readily admit that I made poor choices. All that to say, no, my self esteem was already very shaky prior to the affair...the affair itself just lowered it a little more.

[SBC]

Oh, and by the way, I was never clingy during my A. I'm not a clingy person, as a matter of fact, quite the opposite. So again, you can't put everyone into the same mold as you. A's start for many different reasons and yours happen to start because you had low self esteem. That's not the case for everyone.

 

One more thing, don't mistake venting emotions and healing on this board as placing blame. mourning the loss of an A is the same as mourning any other loss. They are normal emotions and eventually the person comes to "aceptance".

 

As I said to Circular, I was not suggesting that this shoe will fit everyone.

[SBC]

I hope this doesn't come across as an excuse because I assure you its not one. I own what I did regardless of how I got there. I think you are correct in that the actual affair doesn't rob you of your self esteem. They definitely lower your self esteem but to say that I had healthy self esteem prior to my affair would be incorrect. I have struggled with low self esteem ever since my dad left when I was very young. My belief at a young age was that I wasn't worth staying around for. Through individual counseling I've learned that I've tried to recreate that relationship through people that are emotionally unavailable including someone who was married. The goal is to get them to finally stay. But its a self fulfilling prophecy...I choose people that will leave so I've recreated my dad leaving all over again and that lowers my self esteem even more. The affair just re-confirmed that I was not worth staying for...blah, blah, blah...its a vicious cycle and I readily admit that I made poor choices. All that to say, no, my self esteem was already very shaky prior to the affair...the affair itself just lowered it a little more.

 

Isn't it interesting/weird how we do this stuff to ourselves? I find it fascinating on some level --because I too play out a lot of childhood stuff. I have found that knowing what I have been doing helps me make better choices though, even though sometimes those better choices feel strange. I am getting used to them though, but it is not easy.

 

Are you finding that you can make better choices now that you know what you have been doing?

[no expectations]

Isn't it interesting/weird how we do this stuff to ourselves? I find it fascinating on some level --because I too play out a lot of childhood stuff. I have found that knowing what I have been doing helps me make better choices though, even though sometimes those better choices feel strange. I am getting used to them though, but it is not easy.

 

Are you finding that you can make better choices now that you know what you have been doing?

 

Yes!! I was oblivious to what was so obvious to those around me. I just didn't think I was worth more than being someone's second best. Dealing with all the shame in that has been a huge undertaking but I've learned great lessons about boundaries and my self worth. I took a hard road to get there, but yes, I do make better choices now.

[SBC]

Yes!! I was oblivious to what was so obvious to those around me. I just didn't think I was worth more than being someone's second best. Dealing with all the shame in that has been a huge undertaking but I've learned great lessons about boundaries and my self worth. I took a hard road to get there, but yes, I do make better choices now.

 

:bunny:

[spice4life]

Isn't it interesting/weird how we do this stuff to ourselves? I find it fascinating on some level --because I too play out a lot of childhood stuff. I have found that knowing what I have been doing helps me make better choices though, even though sometimes those better choices feel strange. I am getting used to them though, but it is not easy.

 

Are you finding that you can make better choices now that you know what you have been doing?

 

This is/was certainly the case with me. It felt weird for me at first too when I began making better choices. It surprised me at first though. The responses I received in return when making these better choices were very positive. You get back what you are giving out from within you.

[East7]

As fOM I can relate what MorningCoffee and QuietStorm said (brilliant posts)

 

Self-esteem is not the cause of the problem but rather the consequence.

 

At the beginning of the A, MPs shower the AP with attentions, much more than single dating people would give. Then the AP thinks "oh such a sweet fling, I like her so much but I can handle it" - It has nothing to do with self esteem but rather with boundaries.

 

Then MPs are so talented to make you believe they are enduring so much to keep this relationship with you that you forgive everything (unavailability, weekend with BS, etc) and you think "poor MW look what she is doing for me" They make look themselves like the victim while in fact the AP is the real victim of the situation. So the AP lowers his standards and accepts things he could never accept in a normal relationship.

 

The worst feeling I had was the humiliation ! I felt humiliated and angry each time she had to go back to her H but I kept rationalizing telling myself that one day she would be with me and we wouldn't have to hide and sneak around.