ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 ...on the other hand, it is nice to know I COULD be over-booked if I wanted to... and I definitely could... which is probably why I don't worry about it much. It's Labor Day weekend and I have no 'dates', for instance. Lots of friends to hang out with though... going for a motorcycle ride with a good buddy (I have my own motorcycle). Just walked a mile and back to the Starbucks with my dog. He's kind of a man magnet though, my doggie. Medium sized (35 lbs) and a cutie. Then there is the never-ending paint scraping/house projects (I own a 100 yr old historic house). Will say that I was almost late to the classes I teach because I was, um, busy taking care of myself this morning. Being single like this and having values does have it's downside So, there ya go... sufficiently distracted from the Cypress/Nexus feud yet??
LittleTiger Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Still, to this day, I resent the idea that it is a woman's job to put the brake on things. I've told a man more than once, "hey pal. last time I checked, that thing was attached to your body. Not mine." There's little point in resenting the way that biology created us. We are what we are. I agree that it's great to come across a guy who doesn't try to 'move things along' as quickly as possible and modern society has, fortunately, instilled some moral fibre in most of us. However, men are still men - if that's a gender bias then I'm sorry, but nature doesn't change as quickly as society does.
bluenightowl Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 There's little point in resenting the way that biology created us. We are what we are. I agree that it's great to come across a guy who doesn't try to 'move things along' as quickly as possible and modern society has, fortunately, instilled some moral fibre in most of us. However, men are still men - if that's a gender bias then I'm sorry, but nature doesn't change as quickly as society does. That's a good reality check and men pursue women, and women expect that.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 There's little point in resenting the way that biology created us. We are what we are. I agree that it's great to come across a guy who doesn't try to 'move things along' as quickly as possible and modern society has, fortunately, instilled some moral fibre in most of us. However, men are still men - if that's a gender bias then I'm sorry, but nature doesn't change as quickly as society does. Change the rules... change the behavior... Men's behavior has nothing to do with biology. Women love sex as much as men... Our culture allows men to be jerks that way. Things are starting to change though. Now that women can be equally irresponsible, you see more men putting on the brakes. Which is good. It is about time.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 That's a good reality check and men pursue women, and women expect that. Sure, I 'expect' it. But he loses HUGE points with me if he doesn't show some self-imposed braking systems. I've ranted quite a bit about the number of men I met in OLD scenarios where they were putting major moves on me on the first date... I have next-ed more than one guy for that. Personally, I don't see that as a sign of his interest or attraction in me. I see it as a sign of poor breeding and low class. I'd like to believe he's not going to put out for every willing female either, ya know??
denise_xo Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Responses in other thread (about exclusivity and sex) got me thinking. I'm not American, so maybe it's a cultural thing though. Therefore I'll make a poll. Question is: How much physical contact are you fine with before having explicitly established exclusivity with a partner? I'll sort kinds of physical contact by decreasing intimacy (if you consider some positions swapped, say, treat oral as more intimate than vaginal sex or hand holding more intimate than cuddling, feel free to point it out): 1. Sex (vaginal penetration) 2. Sex (oral/anal, no vaginal penetration) 3. Heavy petting (direct genital touching/handjobs included) 4. Light petting (no direct genital touching) 5. Making out 6. Cuddling + some light kissing/pecks here and there. 7. Hand holding. 8. Hugs. 9. No touching at all, till we are exclusive, dammit! In answer, tell, where do you draw the line, and, if possible, why specifically there and not earlier/later? I've done all of that before exclusivity, several times, and if I were to be single again it's quite possible I'd do it again. Today, I would draw the line based on an assessment of a) what I want out of it, b) the nature of my emotional involvement, c) my assessment of the guy's personality, d) how badly I wanted to jump on him I'm not American, either, and where I live I haven't encountered a lot of the 'exclusivity discourse' that I find here on LS. When I was younger I remember there being a lot of insecurity and drama attached (for both genders) to sex without commitment, put it was packaged a bit differently.
denise_xo Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Still, to this day, I resent the idea that it is a woman's job to put the brake on things. No kidding. But it's men's nature, you know :lmao:
LittleTiger Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Change the rules... change the behavior... Men's behavior has nothing to do with biology. Women love sex as much as men... Our culture allows men to be jerks that way. Things are starting to change though. Now that women can be equally irresponsible, you see more men putting on the brakes. Which is good. It is about time. Sorry, but I disagree. Men's and women's sexual and mating behaviour has everything to do with biology. Of course women love sex as much as men - the human race would have died out years ago if we didn't, but it is biology that dictates men want to have sex with almost any woman who says 'yes' and biology that dictates women are a little more particular - because we're the ones who are going to be left holding the baby! Also - it's not culture that allows men to be jerks, it's women!
phineas Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 The last time I experienced these steps was in high-school. women either lead me on with barely kissing me or jump to sex any where from 2nd to 4th date. This could be because most women I wound up actually dating were classmates / lab partners in college or people I had worked with in the past or was currently working with so there was a friendship & familiarity already established. I've never had an "exclusive" talk before sex. It is just assumed unless one of us stated they wanted nothing serious before it actually happened.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Also - it's not culture that allows men to be jerks, it's women! I dunno. I really get tired of people expecting women to be the moral arbiter all the time. Half of these threads are cram packed with men egging other men on to just 'go for it', and not only excusing their fellow brethren for all manner of poor behavior, but giving them tips on how to be bigger scumbags. It is time they 'man up' and start sharing a bit of responsibility for the overall conduct of the men and boys under their influence.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 No kidding. But it's men's nature, you know :lmao: I know you are being lighthearted, but this is a topic I take fairly seriously. If we believe this, well, then I guess alot of other behaviors can be considered in their 'nature' and they have no control over that either. I feel just the opposite. Whether one believes in nature over nurture or not... it is up to each and every individual to exercise responsibility for their own behavior. The ultimate disservice we do to men is assume they are powerless, stupid, unfeeling brutes. Or let them shove the responsibility for their d*cks onto women. That helps noone.
phineas Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Also - it's not culture that allows men to be jerks, it's women! I agree with this. There are a lot of low quality women out there that get off on guys being jerks. On the other hand you got spineless guys who allow women to act shady & disrespectful to them & that is their fault also. Basically men & women wouldn't behave poorly if they couldn't get away with it. and since they can, it will continue & I don't see it getting any better.
LittleTiger Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 I dunno. I really get tired of people expecting women to be the moral arbiter all the time. Half of these threads are cram packed with men egging other men on to just 'go for it', and not only excusing their fellow brethren for all manner of poor behavior, but giving them tips on how to be bigger scumbags. It is time they 'man up' and start sharing a bit of responsibility for the overall conduct of the men and boys under their influence. Nobody is saying that men shouldn't take responsibility for their own actions or behaviour - of course they should, no question! They are all perfectly capable of reigning in their natural instincts and acting like gentlemen - should they choose too. However, that doesn't change the fact that the natural instinct to 'sh*g anything that moves' is still there! Nor does it change the fact that when men behave badly towards women and get away with it - women are teaching them that such behaviour is ok. The threads on LS, which to appear to be men encouraging one another to behave badly, exist because many men have the impression that women prefer 'bad boys'. Of course, they couldn't be more wrong in most cases, but they must be getting that message from somewhere. The more respect women demand, the more respectful men will need to be in order to get what they want.
denise_xo Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) I know you are being lighthearted, but this is a topic I take fairly seriously. If we believe this, well, then I guess alot of other behaviors can be considered in their 'nature' and they have no control over that either. I feel just the opposite. Whether one believes in nature over nurture or not... it is up to each and every individual to exercise responsibility for their own behavior. The ultimate disservice we do to men is assume they are powerless, stupid, unfeeling brutes. Or let them shove the responsibility for their d*cks onto women. That helps noone. Oh, I totally agree. And I take it very seriously as well. It was meant as tongue in cheek/irony. Edited September 3, 2011 by denise_xo
denise_xo Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 I dunno. I really get tired of people expecting women to be the moral arbiter all the time. Quoted for truth. On the culture issue: I've lived countries with very different gender roles, and IME culture definitely has quite a lot to do with it. Yes, we're biological creatures, but there's a whole lot mediating that, with very different results.
bluenightowl Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 The last time I experienced these steps was in high-school. women either lead me on with barely kissing me or jump to sex any where from 2nd to 4th date. This could be because most women I wound up actually dating were classmates / lab partners in college or people I had worked with in the past or was currently working with so there was a friendship & familiarity already established. I've never had an "exclusive" talk before sex. It is just assumed unless one of us stated they wanted nothing serious before it actually happened. Good points. In my case as well, there is a huge difference of having sex on date #2 with someone you knew in a class or work for 10 months versus someone you had coffee with last week for the first time. The trust levels are completely different. I've never had the exclusive talk with people I've known in real life for a long time. You don't need to because you already care about that person as a friend.
phineas Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 Good points. In my case as well, there is a huge difference of having sex on date #2 with someone you knew in a class or work for 10 months versus someone you had coffee with last week for the first time. The trust levels are completely different. I've never had the exclusive talk with people I've known in real life for a long time. You don't need to because you already care about that person as a friend. I honestly don't think i've gotten more than 2 dates out of women I just happened to meet. I've gotten ONS but never anything more. It's mostly been women I knew platoniclly and lost contact with then they contacted me or ran into me & asked for my number.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Oh, I totally agree. And I take it very seriously as well. It was meant as tongue in cheek/irony. It is nice when people can lighten things up... I was thinking that one of the posters here (Mr. Nate) should take a look at your avatar and tell us if that booty is 'big' enough for him It is definately an interesting and 'darkly' funny one to me! On a side note... I'm actively looking for work assignments in Europe (I currently live in Upstate NY and tired of the really poor prospects here... for both business and personal). I have a PhD, so I don't think it will be a problem getting a work Visa. Being one with feminist leanings, and also with Scandinavian heritage, I'm really drawn to Denmark, Sweden, Holland, maybe Norway (but Norway is WAAAY colder than either of the former three)... I would consider Germany and the UK as well. Any thoughts/recommendations based on your travels?? I certainly get get the economic numbers from publications like "The Economist"... but I'm also looking for a different cultural experience than in the US. Any recommendations on dating styles/norms in those countries would definitely help.
bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 It is nice when people can lighten things up... I was thinking that one of the posters here (Mr. Nate) should take a look at your avatar and tell us if that booty is 'big' enough for him It is definately an interesting and 'darkly' funny one to me! On a side note... I'm actively looking for work assignments in Europe (I currently live in Upstate NY and tired of the really poor prospects here... for both business and personal). I have a PhD, so I don't think it will be a problem getting a work Visa. Being one with feminist leanings, and also with Scandinavian heritage, I'm really drawn to Denmark, Sweden, Holland, maybe Norway (but Norway is WAAAY colder than either of the former three)... I would consider Germany and the UK as well. Any thoughts/recommendations based on your travels?? I certainly get get the economic numbers from publications like "The Economist"... but I'm also looking for a different cultural experience than in the US. Any recommendations on dating styles/norms in those countries would definitely help. It sounds like the UK meets your style the most, based on reading LS and they speak english.
bluenightowl Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 It sounds like the UK meets your style the most, based on reading LS and they speak english. I sent you some other ideas via your LS email so has not to bother dating folk here.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 It sounds like the UK meets your style the most, based on reading LS and they speak english. Interesting... Those Scandinavian men though... hubba, hubba!! Was kind of looking forward to learning a new language... although, an obscure one like Dutch or Danish might not have alot of uses I'll check my other emails... Thanks!!
denise_xo Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 It is nice when people can lighten things up... I was thinking that one of the posters here (Mr. Nate) should take a look at your avatar and tell us if that booty is 'big' enough for him It is definately an interesting and 'darkly' funny one to me! On a side note... I'm actively looking for work assignments in Europe (I currently live in Upstate NY and tired of the really poor prospects here... for both business and personal). I have a PhD, so I don't think it will be a problem getting a work Visa. Being one with feminist leanings, and also with Scandinavian heritage, I'm really drawn to Denmark, Sweden, Holland, maybe Norway (but Norway is WAAAY colder than either of the former three)... I would consider Germany and the UK as well. Any thoughts/recommendations based on your travels?? I certainly get get the economic numbers from publications like "The Economist"... but I'm also looking for a different cultural experience than in the US. Any recommendations on dating styles/norms in those countries would definitely help. Sounds like we have a lot to talk about - PM me!
denise_xo Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Interesting... Those Scandinavian men though... hubba, hubba!! Hahaha. If men are the main criteria, I vote London. Or Persians, regardless of where they live
bluenightowl Posted September 5, 2011 Posted September 5, 2011 (edited) Sorry, but I disagree. Men's and women's sexual and mating behaviour has everything to do with biology. Of course women love sex as much as men - the human race would have died out years ago if we didn't, but it is biology that dictates men want to have sex with almost any woman who says 'yes' and biology that dictates women are a little more particular - because we're the ones who are going to be left holding the baby! Also - it's not culture that allows men to be jerks, it's women! I tend to agree with this as well. Apparently its testosterone levels that regulate sex drive in both genders. In woman the levels peak each month at the time of max. fertility. Adding to this men pursue woman. You only have to look at the animal kingdom to see the parallels. The alpha male lion doesn't wait if he gets the chance for sex ever, but the females might stop him. Although we pretend to be civilized you can see how quickly all that breaks down in times of war, economic depression etc. Those instincts run very deep. If a man thinks who can do better, he might refrain from sex, but if he really thinks she might be LTR material and she's inviting him to sex, most men will run with the opportunity. Some men might stop to talk about it before sex, but those are mostly older men who have lots experience and have been conditioned to change their behaviour or know that by waiting there is a better chance of a relationship including sex in the longer term. Edited September 5, 2011 by bluenightowl
Recommended Posts