Poll: Physical contact before being exclusive

[oaks]

The whole situation is ridiculous in my opinion.

 

Yes, I spotted that.

[Nexus One]

Nexus, I think it's better if EVERYONE is just open and honest about what they want, as soon as they know it. Seeing different dating styles as a "decline" doesn't sit well with me even though you and I likely have pretty similar dating styles, I think (we both approach them looking for LTRs and so forth). I think choice and freedom to go after your individual bliss -- general you -- is a great thing and not at all a "decline." But we all need to seek to be as honest as possible (those of us who are good people) since everyone isn't the same or wanting the same thing!

 

I think people with that "other dating style" just aren't for me. They don't live up to even the bare minimum of standards. There used to be a time where such behavior was unacceptable because it's unethical, inconsiderate and indecent. So in that sense it IS a decline, because now suddenly unethical behavior is supposed to be the standard?

 

I just call it's by it's name, when unethical behavior becomes the standard then that's a decline.

 

 

I think choice and freedom to go after your individual bliss -- general you -- is a great thing and not at all a "decline."

 

That's not my point. My point was how some individuals go about doing that.

[bluenightowl]

Nexus, I think it's better if EVERYONE is just open and honest about what they want, as soon as they know it. Seeing different dating styles as a "decline" doesn't sit well with me even though you and I likely have pretty similar dating styles, I think (we both approach them looking for LTRs and so forth). I think choice and freedom to go after your individual bliss -- general you -- is a great thing and not at all a "decline." But we all need to seek to be as honest as possible (those of us who are good people) since everyone isn't the same or wanting the same thing!

 

I think one of the trickier areas though is communicating that in a way that does not come across as desperate. I suppose if you are firm on that stance it really doesn't matter because if they freak out that you are expressing your dating style, you'll just move on in any case.

[zengirl]

That's not my point. My point was how some individuals go about doing that.

 

If they lie, or cheat, or anything, I agree. But what if they just seek out people for more casual relationships. They might not realize you are in another mode unless YOU make that clear. If you do, and they don't admit their mode is different, then I agree: That's a problem. But it's no different to not tell someone you're seeing others than it is to not tell someone you aren't seeing others and don't want to see others. Unless you're communicating, the other person isn't necessarily intending anything bad.

 

I solve this, for myself, by being as clear as possible. Then, if people are to deal with me with integrity at all, they have to make themselves clear. But you have to give what you expect in terms of clarity is all. You seem to want there to be some "default" position, but there isn't.

 

I think one of the trickier areas though is communicating that in a way that does not come across as desperate. I suppose if you are firm on that stance it really doesn't matter because if they freak out that you are expressing your dating style, you'll just move on in any case.

 

Yes, I don't think it's at all desperate to communicate my style or intentions. It's the opposite of desperate because I'm not willing to change them or lower them to get someone to like me.

[bluenightowl]

There used to be a time where such behavior was unacceptable because it's unethical, inconsiderate and indecent. So in that sense it IS a decline, because now suddenly unethical behavior is supposed to be the standard?

 

By whose standard? The U.S.? The UK? India? How about Latin America or the Romans or Pagan times? In the giant picture of humanity I'm not sure there is a standard, just your own values and expectations.

 

That said, I do think people have an idea of when they might hurt someone. Some people choose to not care about that, and so dating itself is a risk. Some people are more sensitive than others as well, so where is the bar for getting hurt in dating.

 

I think you have clearly defined what you think are the best standards for you, and just need to find someone else who believes in similar values.

[bluenightowl]

Yes, I don't think it's at all desperate to communicate my style or intentions. It's the opposite of desperate because I'm not willing to change them or lower them to get someone to like me.

 

I've always used 1-4 dates of just very light dates as a way to determine if I want to date anyone more than that, and to give them some space to see if they like me, and if by date 4 things are moving along I'd talk about it and possibly earlier if I knew she felt the same way.

 

I think you can talk about it as early as date 1, by expressing your dating style, rather than asking them to be like you. By expressing your style, they would usually agree or not and you have your answer. I wouldn't approach it as 'do you want to be exclusive' after date 1. Just to say how you approach it is important as well.

[Nexus One]

If they lie, or cheat, or anything, I agree. But what if they just seek out people for more casual relationships. They might not realize you are in another mode unless YOU make that clear.

 

I'll always make that clear. There could be no misunderstanding about where I stand after I made clear what I'm looking for. If she then purposefully and willfully cheats on me, then I'd simply no longer want to date her or have a relationship with her. What makes some women think a guy that is looking for an LTR would want to date a woman that demonstrates to them she's not girlfriend material?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Nexus One

[zengirl]

bluenightowl -- yes, your style can be part of you from Date 1, of course. It would be odd to think you know the person well enough that early to know they are LTR material, etc.

 

I'll always make that clear. There could be no misunderstanding about where I stand after I made clear what I'm looking for. If she then purposefully and willfully cheats on me, then I'd simply no longer want to date her or have a relationship with her. What makes some women think a guy that is looking for an LTR would want to date a woman that demonstrates to them she's not girlfriend material?

 

Oh, totally. But in answering this hypothetical question, I think we are all assuming there is more ??? involved. MOST people don't make things clear. So, Nexus I would say you are an exception (as am I). However, I think MOST people will make things clear if the other party has taken the lead on that.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Nexus, you bring up a really good point and I'm glad you are so vehement about this.

 

I personally was getting pretty disgusted with some other threads where basically, one had to do double back-hand springs to figure out someone else's intentions.

 

And regarding a 'default' position. YEA! I wish that the people who engaged in casual sex would F--ing realize THEY are the outliers. Most people don't want that.

 

Soooo, it is left to us to creatively delve into their MO-FO psyches to figure out.

 

Just to clarify... even when I did OLD, I only saw ONE man at a time. I would go on a few dates, then decide if I wanted to see him more or not. If not, I would tell him it wasn't a go. THEN I'd agree to meet another man. IME, the advent of OLD has introduced alot of multi-dating BS onto this planet that would never exist otherwise.

 

I've never done any multi-dating, or multi-physical anything. Not even in my 'wild and crazy' days.

 

BUT, before I will declare myself as officially off the market to full-fledged relationship world... yes... If there is physical attraction, I have no problems engaging in making out/heavy petting while we get to know each other a little. My timeline for waiting for sex might be a bit longer than some others here though. In the past 20 years...3 out of the four men who made it to full-fledged relationship world with... I ended up married to, engaged to, or proposed to. And I'm still very good friends with #3 and #4.

 

You also (and others should see that this too)... that when I was much younger, I knew nothing about any of this... I was just having fun... and going under assumptions that all men cared about was getting sex... so felt I wasn't hurting anyone. Those were bad assumptions. I've changed my ways.

 

Still, even back then, I would never make out with different guys simultaneously (ok, there was that threesome I forgot about..ha ha)... and it wasn't even like I had one night stands... just a series of short relationships... two to six months... something like that. After the age of, oh, 26 or so, I've been with very few men. I'm 46 now.

 

but back to your main thought... I'm wondering if you are drawing conclusions based on the naivety and inexperience of alot of the posters here. Sure, some of them KNOW they are hurting others and keep doing it anyway. I bet alot of them are just like me when I was younger. Naive/in accurate assumptions about the opposite sex.

[bluenightowl]

bluenightowl -- yes, your style can be part of you from Date 1, of course. It would be odd to think you know the person well enough that early to know they are LTR material, etc.

 

I agree, but style and LTR potential in terms of dating are mixed together. For one person they might prefer to date one person at a time (eg. Pierre here in LS) For another person they might want to only date one person after 3 dates (because they 'feel' it or because things have gotten intimate)

 

I think dating style and LTR potential are very close actually. For example Nexus would not consider someone who dated and had sex with many men LTR potential and he would NEXT her. Likewise someone else might have sex with someone after 3 dates and assume anyone who is LTR potential would not date anyone else at that point and request to be exclusive not because they really know if they are LTR potential, but because of the evolution of the dating. The other person, might then say, well NO, I don't know you enough to know, but they are really speaking at different levels.

 

One has a dating style that says after this level has been reached we should talk about being exclusive, whereas another person, might solely base it on their level of comfort with that person and how well they know them, not whether or not they had sex, you name it.

[Nexus One]

I was just having fun... and going under assumptions that all men cared about was getting sex... so felt I wasn't hurting anyone. Those were bad assumptions. I've changed my ways.

 

...

 

I'm wondering if you are drawing conclusions based on the naivety and inexperience of alot of the posters here. Sure, some of them KNOW they are hurting others and keep doing it anyway. I bet alot of them are just like me when I was younger. Naive/in accurate assumptions about the opposite sex.

 

I actually wanted to post a theory about why I thought women too are engaging in this behavior and one of my theories was that they're doing it because they're used to many if not most guys jumping at every opportunity for p*ssy. So when a guy comes along that doesn't jump at every opportunity for sex because he has standards, then he's the odd one out, the "crazy" one as cypress25 described me.

 

What they're not realizing is that there are many low quality guys out there in terms of relationship material, i.e. those are guys that are in a phase of their life where they're only looking for sex, but they don't feel anything for the women they're banging. I'd say there are many guys that never outgrow that phase.

 

It almost seems as if women have made THAT type of guy the quintessential man, i.e. the standard man, because that is what they're used to. So if you as a guy then actually display some standards, then that's out of the pattern they know and it pisses them off, because suddenly they don't know how to deal with that.

 

And this whole thing causes them to not even realize they're doing something wrong. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

I'm not saying this is THE theory that explains it, but just A theory that might explain it partly.

[Cypress25]

I don't have to ask a woman NOT to act like a slut (who obscures that she's fooling around with the men she is simultaneously dating), that sort of behavior is not f*cking normal or ethical.

 

 

The behavior you're describing is not slutty. You think a woman is a slut if she goes on 2 dates with 2 different men? Even if she doesn't do anything beyond kissing with either of them? She could be a virgin, and by your definition she would still be a slut.

 

 

I would have no problem telling her that, except I SHOULDN'T have to expressively make clear to a woman that she shouldn't behave like a slut and fool around with multiple men at the same time.

 

 

She's not behaving like a slut.

 

 

Better yet, I will not even ask that from her. She will never see me again when I find out she cheated on me while I was dating her.

 

 

And she's not cheating on you if you're not in a monogamous relationship. Until you're in a committed relationship, you're both single and free to date whoever you want. That's not cheating.

 

 

I don't want to control anyone. I just don't want a woman that engages in slutty behavior as my girlfriend. Period.

 

 

It's not slutty behavior. I'll repeat it as many times as necessary.

 

 

You and I, would NEVER work out. Because you think that being a slut is the default standard of behavior in society and you take offense by the fact that I will not date such classless and indecent women.

 

 

Of course we would never work out, because you're possessive and controlling and insane. It's funny because I have never fooled around with multiple men simultaneously. I didn't even lose my virginity until my 3rd serious relationship. I had 2 serious long-term relationships before that and never had sex because I wasn't ready yet. But I understand that people have the right to date multiple people if they're not in a monogamous relationship. I don't see that as being a slut. So I'm actually one of the women who would fit your idea of decent, ethical behavior. But I can't stand you because you're so judgmental and critical of anyone who behaves differently from you. You have a crazy sense of entitlement and you make crazy demands on people, when you have no right to make such demands. You'll end up scaring all the classy, decent women away because no one wants a possessive, controlling boyfriend who thinks all women are sluts. You'll never find a classy, decent woman who thinks your condescending "holier than though" attitude is attractive.

[oaks]

1. Sex (vaginal penetration)

2. Sex (oral/anal, no vaginal penetration)

3. Heavy petting (direct genital touching/handjobs included)

4. Light petting (no direct genital touching)

5. Making out

6. Cuddling + some light kissing/pecks here and there.

7. Hand holding.

8. Hugs.

9. No touching at all, till we are exclusive, dammit!

 

Right, back to the original question, but since I do multi-date on occasion I'm going to give 2 answers.

 

If I'm multi-dating, then things don't (or at least, haven't) gone further than 6. (but also, I only multi-date up to about 4 or 5 dates, and if I was only dating one person then things wouldn't necessarily get much further in that timescale anyway)

 

When I'm only seeing one person but we haven't discussed relationships or exclusivity, then 5 or 4 (and I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, hence sitting on the fence here).

[Nexus One]

The behavior you're describing is not slutty. You think a woman is a slut if she goes on 2 dates with 2 different men? Even if she doesn't do anything beyond kissing with either of them? She could be a virgin, and by your definition she would still be a slut.

 

 

 

 

 

She's not behaving like a slut.

 

 

 

 

 

And she's not cheating on you if you're not in a monogamous relationship. Until you're in a committed relationship, you're both single and free to date whoever you want. That's not cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not slutty behavior. I'll repeat it as many times as necessary.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course we would never work out, because you're possessive and controlling and insane. It's funny because I have never fooled around with multiple men simultaneously. I didn't even lose my virginity until my 3rd serious relationship. I had 2 serious long-term relationships before that and never had sex because I wasn't ready yet. But I understand that people have the right to date multiple people if they're not in a monogamous relationship. I don't see that as being a slut. So I'm actually one of the women who would fit your idea of decent, ethical behavior. But I can't stand you because you're so judgmental and critical of anyone who behaves differently from you. You have a crazy sense of entitlement and you make crazy demands on people, when you have no right to make such demands. You'll end up scaring all the classy, decent women away because no one wants a possessive, controlling boyfriend who thinks all women are sluts. You'll never find a classy, decent woman who thinks your condescending "holier than though" attitude is attractive.

 

I think you're misguided and you're misreading me completely.

 

But I can't stand you because you're so judgmental and critical of anyone who behaves differently from you.

 

If you'd know me in person then you'd know I'm not a judgmental person at all. If there's one rule I try to live by it's trying to not judge others, because I'm not walking in their shoes. HOWEVER, I very much dislike injustice and that's where this whole thing comes down to. Injustice.

 

You have a crazy sense of entitlement and you make crazy demands on people, when you have no right to make such demands.

 

So it's crazy for a man to stop dating a woman when she's fooling around with other men behind his back? How is that even remotely entitlement? It's dodging bullets. You're basically saying I'm crazy for checking for red flags.

 

You'll end up scaring all the classy, decent women away because no one wants a possessive, controlling boyfriend who thinks all women are sluts. You'll never find a classy, decent woman who thinks your condescending "holier than though" attitude is attractive.

 

I don't think all women are sluts, where did you even read that? I don't come across as controlling in real life at all, I very much do my own thing in life and don't preach others on how to live theirs. I also don't think I'm better than other people, I'm all about equality, but that's not what this is about and you know it.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Nexus One

[LittleTiger]

If I was 'multi-dating' ie meeting a few different guys for coffee and a chat, they would know from the very first conversation that that's what I was doing and a light hello/goodbye hug and maybe a kiss on the cheek is as far as it would go.......and that's as far as it would go until we were exclusive.

 

So I guess that means somewhere between 8 and 9 for me!

 

Nexus, looks like you're not the only 'odd one out'!

[bluenightowl]

It's funny because I have never fooled around with multiple men simultaneously.

 

Cypress25, I'm curious though if you would date others and fool around with one man simultaneously.

 

I'm don't know if you do this, but I see this argument a lot that until you are having sex with two men at the same, all is okay. That is to say, I'm having sex with one guy while dating 3 more. To me if you're having sex with one guy it might be time to talk about it with them. As well, I doubt the other guys would be happy to know you're having sex with another guy. Again, I'm not saying that is what you do, I really think those that justify dating this way are really just being deceptive to these people.

[Cypress25]

I don't think all women are sluts, where did you even read that?

 

In your last few posts, you used the term "slut/slutty" a total of 8 times. And the behavior you were describing is not slutty in any way, shape, or form.

 

If you'd know me in person then you'd know I'm not a judgmental person at all. If there's one rule I try to live by it's trying to not judge others, because I'm not walking in their shoes. HOWEVER, I very much dislike injustice and that's where this whole thing comes down to. Injustice.

 

Yeah, I'm sure you refer to women as sluts because of the injustice. And for someone who claims he is not judgmental, you use the words "immoral, unethical, indecent, slutty, wrong, unacceptable" an awful lot.

 

They don't live up to even the bare minimum of standards. There used to be a time where such behavior was unacceptable because it's unethical, inconsiderate and indecent. So in that sense it IS a decline, because now suddenly unethical behavior is supposed to be the standard?

 

That's the epitome of judgmental right there.

 

So it's crazy for a man to stop dating a woman when she's fooling around with other men behind his back? How is that even remotely entitlement? It's dodging bullets. You're basically saying I'm crazy for checking for red flags.

 

You can stop dating anyone whatever you want. But you cannot tell single women who they're allowed to date, when they're allowed to date, and what they're allowed to do on their dates. If she's single, she can do whatever she wants. It's crazy to demand exclusivity from a woman before she goes on even one date with you, it's crazy to give single women rules to abide by when they're dating, it's crazy to expect them to tell you every detail of their personal lives so you can keep tabs on them.

 

I don't come across as controlling in real life at all, I very much do my own thing in life and don't preach others on how to live theirs.

 

Then why are you preaching in this thread? Why are you going on and on about what single women should and shouldn't do when they're dating? If women don't abide by your stringent dating rules, then they're slutty, indecent, classless, and unethical.

 

I also don't think I'm better than other people

 

Really? Because right here, you go into detail about all the "low quality" guys out there, comparing them to a high-quality man such as yourself.

 

What they're not realizing is that there are many low quality guys out there in terms of relationship material, i.e. those are guys that are in a phase of their life where they're only looking for sex, but they don't feel anything for the women they're banging. I'd say there are many guys that never outgrow that phase.

 

It almost seems as if women have made THAT type of guy the quintessential man, i.e. the standard man, because that is what they're used to. So if you as a guy then actually display some standards, then that's out of the pattern they know

 

Your problem is not that you have standards. Your problem is you feel entitled to order people around and set rules for other people to live by. You judge people harshly if they don't live their life according to your rules, and instead of acknowledging that everyone is different, you simply declare that you're right and everyone else is wrong. That doesn't make you a high-quality guy. That makes you a jerk.

 

I'm not used to low-quality guys who have no standards and don't care about me and try to use me for sex. I'm used to guys who respect me and recognize me as an autonomous human being; guys who don't try to control me and treat me like their property; guys who don't impose their beliefs on others and invalidate the morals, values, and ethics of other people. Then I encounter someone like you and it shocks me because you have no respect for anyone. All you do is denigrate people if their values are different from yours. You hold yourself up as a shining example of morality and decency, and anyone who has different definitions of morality and decency must be the scum of the earth.

 

Get your head out of your ass, please.

[bluenightowl]

IME, the advent of OLD has introduced alot of multi-dating BS onto this planet that would never exist otherwise.

 

I've never done any multi-dating, or multi-physical anything. Not even in my 'wild and crazy' days.

 

Great post. I agree about OLD.

Now I'm curious about what was so wild and crazy, but no need to answer.

[simpsonic]

If I was 'multi-dating' ie meeting a few different guys for coffee and a chat, they would know from the very first conversation that that's what I was doing

 

See, this is what I struggle with. I only started multi-dating less than a year ago to see what it was like. I couldn't decide if I should tell the guys that I was seeing others as well as them. I ended not doing it because I was afraid they would lose interest if they knew I was seeing other guys at the same time, as they'd probably feel less special. I dunno.

 

In response to the OP's poll, I have done all of the above without being exclusive/in a committed relationship. While I don't regret it, I'm looking for an LTR now so I don't plan on doing that again.

[Cypress25]

Cypress25, I'm curious though if you would date others and fool around with one man simultaneously.

 

I'm don't know if you do this, but I see this argument a lot that until you are having sex with two men at the same, all is okay. That is to say, I'm having sex with one guy while dating 3 more. To me if you're having sex with one guy it might be time to talk about it with them. As well, I doubt the other guys would be happy to know you're having sex with another guy. Again, I'm not saying that is what you do, I really think those that justify dating this way are really just being deceptive to these people.

 

Actually, what I said was, I never have sex outside of committed relationships. I don't even consider having sex with a guy unless I know we're monogamous. That means I'm not dating anyone else and he is not dating anyone else. We're in an exclusive relationship. He is my boyfriend and I am his girlfriend.

 

I wouldn't date others and fool around with one guy simultaneously, because if I like a guy enough to fool around with him, then I wouldn't be interested in dating anyone else. However, I understand that not everyone is like me in that way. And I respect that. Just because someone has different values doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

That's why I don't demand exclusivity from my partner in the early stages of dating. He probably needs more time than I do to decide if he wants a relationship with me. That's fine, I'm not going to rush him. I won't wait forever though. If we've been dating for more than 3 months and he still hasn't mentioned exclusivity, then I'll bring it up. At that point, I've probably been dating him exclusively for quite some time, so I think it's fair to make sure we're on the same page. Truly, I've never had to ask a guy for exclusivity. The guy always asks me after about 5-6 weeks of dating. Of course, I wasn't dating anyone else anyway, but he didn't know that.

[oaks]

I once approached the subject of exclusivity with someone by mentioning that I wasn't seeing anyone else. The response was "well, you should". That wasn't what I was expecting! But at least we ended up on the same page.

[Cypress25]

I once approached the subject of exclusivity with someone by mentioning that I wasn't seeing anyone else. The response was "well, you should". That wasn't what I was expecting! But at least we ended up on the same page.

 

Ouch! Well, there's brutal honesty for you.

[Nexus One]

In your last few posts, you used the term "slut/slutty" a total of 8 times. And the behavior you were describing is not slutty in any way, shape, or form.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure you refer to women as sluts because of the injustice. And for someone who claims he is not judgmental, you use the words "immoral, unethical, indecent, slutty, wrong, unacceptable" an awful lot.

 

 

 

That's the epitome of judgmental right there.

 

 

 

You can stop dating anyone whatever you want. But you cannot tell single women who they're allowed to date, when they're allowed to date, and what they're allowed to do on their dates. If she's single, she can do whatever she wants. It's crazy to demand exclusivity from a woman before she goes on even one date with you, it's crazy to give single women rules to abide by when they're dating, it's crazy to expect them to tell you every detail of their personal lives so you can keep tabs on them.

 

 

 

Then why are you preaching in this thread? Why are you going on and on about what single women should and shouldn't do when they're dating? If women don't abide by your stringent dating rules, then they're slutty, indecent, classless, and unethical.

 

 

 

Really? Because right here, you go into detail about all the "low quality" guys out there, comparing them to a high-quality man such as yourself.

 

 

 

Your problem is not that you have standards. Your problem is you feel entitled to order people around and set rules for other people to live by. You judge people harshly if they don't live their life according to your rules, and instead of acknowledging that everyone is different, you simply declare that you're right and everyone else is wrong. That doesn't make you a high-quality guy. That makes you a jerk.

 

I'm not used to low-quality guys who have no standards and don't care about me and try to use me for sex. I'm used to guys who respect me and recognize me as an autonomous human being; guys who don't try to control me and treat me like their property; guys who don't impose their beliefs on others and invalidate the morals, values, and ethics of other people. Then I encounter someone like you and it shocks me because you have no respect for anyone. All you do is denigrate people if their values are different from yours. You hold yourself up as a shining example of morality and decency, and anyone who has different definitions of morality and decency must be the scum of the earth.

 

Get your head out of your ass, please.

 

It's futile having a discussion with you. You know why? Because you're not even considering any arguments I brought to the table, solid arguments.

Another reason is that you keep twisting my words to suit your own opinion and use it to paint me as a bad guy.

 

While all I'm f*cking saying is that I don't want to date women that are fooling around with multiple men during the dating process while keeping everyone in the dark about it. You're basically saying I'm crazy for dodging a bullet, crazy for looking at such red flags.

 

Yet for some reason you're gung-ho on twisting my words in such a way as if I'm saying something else. I'm almost getting the feeling you're trolling here, but you're probably not, because like I said I get the idea you're misguided. To be honest I feel like I'm wasting my time reacting to your posts at this point.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I actually wanted to post a theory about why I thought women too are engaging in this behavior and one of my theories was that they're doing it because they're used to many if not most guys jumping at every opportunity for p*ssy. So when a guy comes along that doesn't jump at every opportunity for sex because he has standards, then he's the odd one out, the "crazy" one as cypress25 described me.

 

What they're not realizing is that there are many low quality guys out there in terms of relationship material, i.e. those are guys that are in a phase of their life where they're only looking for sex, but they don't feel anything for the women they're banging. I'd say there are many guys that never outgrow that phase.

 

It almost seems as if women have made THAT type of guy the quintessential man, i.e. the standard man, because that is what they're used to. So if you as a guy then actually display some standards, then that's out of the pattern they know and it pisses them off, because suddenly they don't know how to deal with that.

 

And this whole thing causes them to not even realize they're doing something wrong. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

I'm not saying this is THE theory that explains it, but just A theory that might explain it partly.

 

I could write a book on this... but I'll try not to...

 

You can tell from my other posts that I wasn't raised to believe in gender stereotypes... plus my parents were VERY open with me and my sis about sexuality. I had zero guilt, fear, or weirdness whatsoever about sex and always had considered it the best kind of adult play... but I was too young to consider the responsibilities (beyond pregnancy, of course). Back then, we knew nothing about AIDS. STD's were pretty rare too. It was all fun and games.

 

I guess I was maybe just a little busy also 'proving' I could do anything those boys could do... always up for a challenge

 

Still, to this day, I resent the idea that it is a woman's job to put the brake on things. I've told a man more than once, "hey pal. last time I checked, that thing was attached to your body. Not mine."

 

So, yes, I do see the "theoretical" aspect of your argument regarding a guy being out of some women's norm. Me?? I'd LOVE to see more men taking responsibility for the pace of a relationship. I actually LOOK for that quality in a man. Now that I'm older and wiser, and understand the wisdom of waiting, I consider that kind of discipline (within reason) to be incredibly sexy!! I need all the help I can get that way

 

Definitely don't see it often though...

[ThsAmericanLife]

It's futile having a discussion with you. You know why? Because you're not even considering any arguments I brought to the table, solid arguments.

Another reason is that you keep twisting my words to suit your own opinion and use it to paint me as a bad guy.

 

While all I'm f*cking saying is that I don't want to date women that are fooling around with multiple men during the dating process while keeping everyone in the dark about it. You're basically saying I'm crazy for dodging a bullet, crazy for looking at such red flags.

 

Yet for some reason you're gung-ho on twisting my words in such a way as if I'm saying something else. I'm almost getting the feeling you're trolling here, but you're probably not, because like I said I get the idea you're misguided. To be honest I feel like I'm wasting my time reacting to your posts at this point.

 

I like Cypress... cut it out you two!!

 

Really, this seems to be more about an issue of semantics.

 

... and I agree with you BTW. I only date one at a time. I really never felt the need or desire to juggle multiple opportunities, even when I have the chance. Maybe I'm more decisive than some?? Maybe I'm ok being 'alone' in between potentials??

 

Some people feel pretty hopeless if they have to spend a Friday night without a 'date' of some kind. I was never like that.

 

Maybe that is what you are reacting to perhaps? People who have to have a constant stream of partners/dates in order to feel special? I don't like that either.

 

I'm much more comfortable just seeing one at a time, and maybe being alone in between... so when Mr. Right comes along, I'm not having to clear my calendar of men. Seems so much more efficient and nice for everyone. But that is just me.