Drastically improved response rate, online dating

[Zaphod B]

 

Define "Lying to women"?

 

Again, two scenarios, what's worse?:

 

A. Bill is interested in a relationship, takes woman out to dinner, pays for cab, drinks, comedy show tickets, everything. She just met a guy the night before that she is really really interested in. Maybe she isn't that into Bill but decided to go out with Bill anyway because he asked a week ago and she accepted. She knows this won't go anywhere. It's friday night, she doesnt have anything else going on, she will be polite and respectful on the date, but knows that she won't entertain a relationship with Bill.

 

B. Joe wants to have fun and meet new women. He just got out of a relationship and Joe would like to have a nice evening out, but would also like a sexual relationship. Not sleep around with every woman he can, but someone he can have fun with on a regular basis without a strong relationship committment. Joe pays for dinner, cab, drinks, comedy show, and the woman has a good time. She wants a relationship, but Joe doesn't know what she wants and doesn't ask, and doesn't tell her he is only looking to have fun and hook up. She has a great night out at his expense and they hook up and have sex. They stay in touch, maybe go out a few more times, have more sex, but when she asks about taking it a step further to a committed relationship, Joe tells her he likes where things are now and isn't looking for anything serious.

 

Honestly, I'd love to know which is worse or if either one is ACTUALLY a bad thing or considered deceptive.

 

I don't see any lying going on there. Just someone not being up front and honest about their intentions. But then again if the conversation hasn't come up about what each person wants out of the other, then I see no big deal. I only see it is a problem if someone blatantly lies , ie says "I really want a relationship with you", but really just wants a shag and nothing more.

 

I figure if a woman I fancy wants to jump into bed with me, I'm not gonna turn around and say "Hey, this is cool, let's do it, but I just want you to know I'm only doing this for the sex". I'm gonna welcome it, after all, she wants it! But I won't lie and promise something I'm not prepared to give.

 

I had a great opportunity once with a woman 17 years younger than me who really wanted me as her boyfriend and I was so tempted to say Yes, just to get her into bed. I had no intentions of getting into a relationship with a woman that much younger than me. I couldn't do it though, because I knew I would just be using her and breaking her heart. I wouldn't want to take things that far just for sex.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Zaphod B

[Imajerk17]

Most people (men and women) doing OLD are obsessed with instant 'chemistry'. It is overly populated with people who believe in love at first sight and soulmate BS.

 

Which is another reason I don't do it anymore.

 

I've learned not to trust my first instinct when it comes to sexual attraction anymore. It is highly unreliable.

 

Character isn't on the Periodic Chart... (get it? chemistry? Periodic Chart? yes, I'm a geek).

 

 

Serious commentary on what you wrote....

 

I remember a time when I dated a coworker. (We didn't work out, but it was due to us being fundamentally incompatible so in that sense it was a "good" breakup.) Our first "date" was lunch in the cafeteria. Anyway, we had a couple more lunches like that, which led to us dating for a couple years.

 

If we had met online and even gotten to meeting up, I don't think we would have gotten past that lunch. The conversation was very good, but I don't think it rated better than the best 'one-and-dones' in my OLD experience. From my experience of OLD so far, I think she would have gone home and concluded that she had fun, but that "there's not enough chemistry" for a second date.

 

Now I've never dated men so I don't know what this is like. As someone who is a guy (typical or not), I can say my standards: that as long as she is cute and fun, has no serious red flags, and seems reasonably into me, I am open for a second date.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I don't see any lying going on there. Just someone not being up front and honest about their intentions.

 

That is the same thing as lying... It is lying by omission.

 

...but this is why I (and plenty of other people) recommend making sure both people are on the same page before having sex... and not having sex early.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Serious commentary on what you wrote....

 

I remember a time when I dated a coworker. (We didn't work out, but it was due to us being fundamentally incompatible so in that sense it was a "good" breakup.) Our first "date" was lunch in the cafeteria. Anyway, we had a couple more lunches like that, which led to us dating for a couple years.

 

If we had met online and even gotten to meeting up, I don't think we would have gotten past that lunch. The conversation was very good, but I don't think it rated better than the best 'one-and-dones' in my OLD experience. From my experience of OLD so far, I think she would have gone home and concluded that she had fun, but that "there's not enough chemistry" for a second date.

 

Now I've never dated men so I don't know what this is like. As someone who is a guy (typical or not), I can say my standards: that as long as she is cute and fun, has no serious red flags, and seems reasonably into me, I am open for a second date.

 

Thanks for sharing! Yes, I've had the same experience.

 

Interestingly, as I've gotten older, I'm not looking for that instant 'passion' (which is usually quickly followed by lots of drama)... and even tend to be very skeptical of it when it does happen. Those darned hormones!!

 

I'm much more into the slow burn these days... and really enjoy the feeling of peace and calm that comes along with that.

[Zaphod B]

...but this is why I (and plenty of other people) recommend making sure both people are on the same page before having sex... and not having sex early.

 

Well yeah, you should if you don't want to have sex with someone who isn't interested in a relationship. However I don't think ANYONE should feel guilty about having sex with someone who wants to have sex with them. I see no harm done if both parties wanted it.

[irc333]

I DO think that women are obsessed with this thing called "chemistry".

 

Agreed,. I think this notion of "Chemistry" should be thrown out when considering mate, because this is what leads to possible relationship problems down the road.

 

FIrst they're all caught up "I met this great guy, he's wonderful fantastic, blah blah blah" I met THE ONE!

 

Then they get married or live together or whatever.

 

Then they cannot handle the relationship problems that come into play. So they try to rekindle things their own way, perhaps they'll have sex even more often to bring them closer together.

 

If that doesn't work, the next, they think by having a CHILD together will bring them closer together. BIG mistake, so they bring this child into to already messed up relationship.

 

The thing just snow balls, and then they meet another person, and they think THAT person is "The One" and they figured they found the "wrong person" earlier.

 

And the cycle starts over.

 

Chemistry is a dangerous thing.

[Casablanca]

I dont know how Chemistry can't be important...chemistry doesnt have to be a million miles a minute conversations and interactions; more of how well two people complement each other in their conversations and interactions

[GivenUp0083]

I couldn't do it though, because I knew I would just be using her and breaking her heart. I wouldn't want to take things that far just for sex.

 

Obviously you haven't had amazing sex

 

That is the same thing as lying... It is lying by omission.

 

...but this is why I (and plenty of other people) recommend making sure both people are on the same page before having sex... and not having sex early.

 

Then every woman who goes out with a guy knowing it won't lead to a relationship and lets him pay for dinner is a liar too, right? Can you at least write that so we know you don't hold a double standard?

 

P.S. I DID in fact respect your words about people expecting love at first sight and whatnot.....only because my last gf (whom I met online, dated for 6 months and fell in love with), told me as her reason for breaking up with me: I want that fairy tale love story where you are head over heels love at first sight. That line will stick with me forever.

[Zaphod B]

Obviously you haven't had amazing sex

 

Obviously you think only of your own pleasure and have little compassion for those you hurt.

 

My ex was mindbogglingly awesome in bed. Ok, if I knew this 24 year old was going to be as good as her, then yeah, I probably would have been tempted to lead her on, but I didn't know. She seemed rather naive and clueless to me, so probably wouldn't have been. I can't imagine it would have been amazing at all! But if I had lead her on, then I would have felt terrible about it afterwards and found it hard to forgive myself. Even amazing sex is not worth that.

 

Then every woman who goes out with a guy knowing it won't lead to a relationship and lets him pay for dinner is a liar too, right?

 

Gotta agree with you on this one, based on TAL's logic.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Zaphod B

[irc333]

I also have to laugh at a some of the women on online dating sites that have been there for ever....these were the women I had emailed, and some are whining IN their profiles how they can't meet anyone or just plain ticked off at the dating site.

 

And I'm thinking "Hey, I emailed you, you didn't respond, your loss.....people make bad decisions, and you're still making them obviously, so quit yer whinin!"

[EnigmaticClarity]

[/b]Agreed,. I think this notion of "Chemistry" should be thrown out when considering mate, because this is what leads to possible relationship problems down the road.

 

FIrst they're all caught up "I met this great guy, he's wonderful fantastic, blah blah blah" I met THE ONE!

 

Then they get married or live together or whatever.

 

Then they cannot handle the relationship problems that come into play. So they try to rekindle things their own way, perhaps they'll have sex even more often to bring them closer together.

 

If that doesn't work, the next, they think by having a CHILD together will bring them closer together. BIG mistake, so they bring this child into to already messed up relationship.

 

The thing just snow balls, and then they meet another person, and they think THAT person is "The One" and they figured they found the "wrong person" earlier.

 

And the cycle starts over.

 

Chemistry is a dangerous thing.

 

I've only been here a week or two, but this is the biggest load of sad, cynical horse**** I've read in these forums. How did your view of love and relationships become so horribly bitter?

[EnigmaticClarity]

Obviously you haven't had amazing sex

 

Amazing sex is fine, but it's what comes after that can be difficult, awkward, or even profoundly disturbing with casual. My favorite song about that is Stone Temple Pilots "The Big Empty" where that's entirely what he's singing about.

 

 

Driving faster in my car

Falling farther from just what we are

Smoke a cigarette and lie some more

These conversations kill.

Falling faster in my car.

 

Time to take her home,

her dizzy head is conscious laden.

Time to take a ride it leaves today

no conversation

[ThsAmericanLife]

Gotta agree with you on this one, based on TAL's logic.

 

If the OP had read any of my other posts, he'd see that I always offer to pay my share. No matter what the level of attraction is.

 

... and I also said in another post that I resent people who go on dates to use as 'target practice'. ie... without a legitimate interest but just using them as 'practice'.

 

This is why I'm very selective about whom I meet. I really have better things to do with my time than go out on dates (that I will offer to pay half on) with men I'm not interested in.

 

In fact, I think that in this day and age, it is retarded for men to always pay for the first date or any subsequent dates. Totally outdated convention from a time when women didn't work.

 

Anyway... all of this is lost on the OP. He needs to keep plowing the typical PUA territory and woman-hating BS so he can avoid the work of fixing his internal issues. He's got a quick fix mentality that unfortunately plagues so many younger people these days... and the perpetually immature that plague OLD.

 

These conversations are going nowhere from what I can tell...

 

Let him just learn the hard way. It looks like that is what it will take....

[ThsAmericanLife]

I've only been here a week or two, but this is the biggest load of sad, cynical horse**** I've read in these forums. How did your view of love and relationships become so horribly bitter?

 

Actually, I kinda agree with IRC...

 

People who fall in 'love' easy (usually claiming amazing 'chemistry') seem to fall out of 'love' just as quickly... or surf from person to person whenever their feelings of 'love' are jiggled slightly.

 

These are the pathetic re-peats on OLD.

 

Their 'love' is based on their 'feelings' and hormones usually... not actions are anything tangible.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Anyway... all of this is lost on the OP. He needs to keep plowing the typical PUA territory and woman-hating BS so he can avoid the work of fixing his internal issues. He's got a quick fix mentality that unfortunately plagues so many younger people these days... and the perpetually immature that plague OLD.

 

Yea, like guys in bars and lounges never try to rack up scores...it's a completely new phenomenon introduced by online dating!

 

This guy's trying to build his confidence, and you're ****ting all over him. Do you approach men, wait to be approached, or do both? If you do both, what percentage of the time do you approach?

[EnigmaticClarity]

Actually, I kinda agree with IRC...

 

People who fall in 'love' easy (usually claiming amazing 'chemistry') seem to fall out of 'love' just as quickly... or surf from person to person whenever their feelings of 'love' are jiggled slightly.

 

These are the pathetic re-peats on OLD.

 

Their 'love' is based on their 'feelings' and hormones usually... not actions are anything tangible.

 

Yea, I was going to ask what made you so cynical earlier as well, but irc's post almost made you look like a doe-eyed romantic idealist. Since you bring it up...what DOES make you so bitter? In my experience people who fall out of love didn't know why they were in love in the first place and are plagued by a host of emotional issues. What's made me fall out of love is when I ignored my initial reservations about someone and entered into a relationship anyway, i.e. ignored chemistry.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Yea, like guys in bars and lounges never try to rack up scores...it's a completely new phenomenon introduced by online dating!

 

no, it is just easier to do so anonymously because of OLD

 

This guy's trying to build his confidence, and you're ****ting all over him. Do you approach men, wait to be approached, or do both? If you do both, what percentage of the time do you approach?

 

He's trying to 'build his confidence' based on BS... and, from sound of it, has his little schemes (based on revenge tactics due to his own insecurity) to make those women PAY for his hurt in life in some way.

 

Building confidence... PAH! How about learning how to develop friendships? Basic social skills? One doesn't need to be online and do PUA stuff to do that. He says he's not going to tell women upfront what his intentions are. And you want to help him in this little endeavor??? Give me a break.

 

But to answer your question... When I was doing OLD, ultimately, I did ALL of the initiating. Took my pictures down and requested not to be messaged unless I messaged them first. Not only did I only correspond with men I was interested in, it saved them time, and gave me plenty of brain space so I could focus on one at a time.

 

I met alot more decent men that way... I still gave it up though. OLD that is. I might pick it up again after I move. Not here though.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Yea, I was going to ask what made you so cynical earlier as well, but irc's post almost made you look like a doe-eyed romantic idealist. Since you bring it up...what DOES make you so bitter? In my experience people who fall out of love didn't know why they were in love in the first place and are plagued by a host of emotional issues. What's made me fall out of love is when I ignored my initial reservations about someone and entered into a relationship anyway, i.e. ignored chemistry.

 

Really? You think that is bitter?? Interesting.

 

Most of my relationships have been extremely good ones... I have alot of friends, both male and female.

 

I still believe 'chemistry' is some hoo-ha made up in Hollywood... and online dating marketers.

 

Think about it. If people realized that it actually might take time to get to know people (and stop treating their crotches like some kind of 'wind vane'), there would probably be fewer people trolling the OLD sites looking at all the ad space.

[Abhuman]

POF and OKC have been getting on my nerves so much lately. Maybe it's because I've had more free time to browse them this last week. I see all the profiles that have the same lines in them. It's like women have a dating profile quote book that they pick and choose from. It could be the same for dudes too but I don't look at theirs.

 

 

Has anybody else gotten a suspicious message sort of like this:

"Hey I'm planning on visiting [your city] soon and would like to get to know people I could hang out with while I'm there." She has since been writing me quite a bit. Normally I don't see this kind of blatant interest until after I've met the person. I'm not planing on meeting this person since my spider sense is tingling. But I have been kind of baiting this person along to find out of they are genuine just out of curiosity.

[irc333]

Kind of funny, there's an example of a woman that keeps popping up and disappearing and RE-appearing again, each time altering her profile, adding pics, or write-up

 

Even deleting parts of her profile and re-writing it or adding more on.

 

I could see the Evolution of her profile over the years, where it went from a standard profile, to a long list of frustrated criteria and demands....to recently, "screw it, people don't read profiles, if you like what you SEE, send me an email, if I don't respond it's because of distance, wasn't attracted, or something about you I didn't like "LOL

 

That's all it said pretty much. LOL Totally jaded profile

 

She had some narcissistic poses of her AT the gym, flexing and crap.

 

Some of these people will just wind up in an old-age home without anyone in their lives due to their picky criteria and the way they behave.

[irc333]

It's like women have a dating profile quote book that they pick and choose from.

Yep....I see it all the time, and I bet they are NOT aware of what the other women are doing

 

"I love to laugh" or "Don't sweat the small stuff" or "Dance like no one is watching!!" or some lame Marilyn Monroe quote I keep seeing:

 

"If you don't like me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" or something like that. LOL

 

Everyone claims to be "easy going" and "laid back" (funny, I am easy going, its the truth I suppose) LOL

 

 

OH, and women LOVE a guy with a sense of humor, I'm just NOW finding that out, because they "like to laugh" and "try new things".

 

 

And a particular favorite, "Chemistry is a MUST!"

 

I usually send them a generic sounding email, with generic questions as well, no it's not copied paste, it's ALL typed out and someone custom to a certain extent. lol

 

 

Lately though, I'im starting to see Disclaimers that state:

 

"If I don't respond, please take no offense, but I probably wasn't attracted"

 

 

Women now have pre-fabricated answers like thi s in their profile, I don't even email them. And they sometimes end the profile with

 

"Good luck!"

 

As if she was a prize in a lottery.

[Casablanca]

Lately though, I'im starting to see Disclaimers that state:

 

"If I don't respond, please take no offense, but I probably wasn't attracted"

 

 

Women now have pre-fabricated answers like thi s in their profile, I don't even email them. And they sometimes end the profile with

From what I hear though a decent amount of the crappy guys online who just message about hook ups or cant string together a complete sentence will message a few times when they dont get a response...there is a reason some women put that in their profiles, it wasnt just random.

[irc333]

From what I hear though a decent amount of the crappy guys online who just message about hook ups or cant string together a complete sentence will message a few times when they dont get a response...there is a reason some women put that in their profiles, it wasnt just random.

 

 

True, however, I can string together sentences that sound intelligible. So, there's that to consider as well.

[Abhuman]

From what I hear though a decent amount of the crappy guys online who just message about hook ups or cant string together a complete sentence will message a few times when they dont get a response...there is a reason some women put that in their profiles, it wasnt just random.

I get plenty of incomprehensible messages from the women too. Normally I am not a grammar nazi and can figure out bad writing. But once I got a message that I looked at for a good 5 minutes and couldn't figure it out.

 

But uh, I just laugh at it. Not **** up my profile with warnings and stuff.

 

Yea the 'good luck' line is hilariously narcissistic.

[irc333]

I just saw a couple of women who admitted to have made their "return" to online dating.

 

But with a jaded attitude. They would say things like, "Yeah, I'm back here again, for those who had talked with me before, I got bored with the site, but how are you going to meet people??"

 

Another woman was having a hard time with dating, a bad time meeting the right kind of man, and of course the cliche'd "Are all the good ones taken??"

 

And "Prove me wrong!!"