FitChick Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 But let's be honest here FitChick, if a guy wrote you an "arsehole" email and he was 6'2", dark hair, thin, tan, and was a doctor...you would respond and even go out with him. Please don't insult us by denying this. I deny it! Sounds like a doctor I briefly dated -- fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 I deny it! Sounds like a doctor I briefly dated -- fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Ok fine, let's say he's not a doctor, he works on wall street or he's a professional athlete....you'd go out with him.
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 This is one reason why you are struggling with dating. You believe them. I made the same mistake, and too many times do men take the words of what women say to truth. How many times have women said "I just don't want to be in a relationship right now" and then they have a boyfriend the week after? Exactly. Actions are all that matter at this stage, not words. I don't believe every single person (man or woman) when they say the type of things that those two said. But I do believe that there are exceptions to every rule. Just because 90% of women respond to one type of thing doesn't mean they all do. Those two could indeed be the exception that proves the rule. And I do think it's foolish to pursue the exceptions and expect results. It's like looking for a needle in a stack of needles.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Here's my question... I get my experience and opinions from people I meet in real life. Friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers. Watch and observe. Would you get a response from anyone you'd respect IRL with an approach like this? You don't have the situation of a girl filtering through 5, 10, 20, or 50 approaches at once to find a gem in the rough like you do with online, so it's apples and oranges--the timing of the formats are different. Brief and cocky/funny beats nice/sweet the vast majority of the time online.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Brief and cocky/funny beats nice/sweet the vast majority of the time online. People are thinking of different approaches as mutually exclusive in this thread that don't need to be. You can be cocky, funny, brief, sweet, non-snarky, clever, and sarcastic all at the same time, they're not all mutually exclusive. Fit as much quality into a short opener as you can with a focus on humor and you're in the door if your profile isn't unappealing. Brief is the key--doesn't take you much time to write, her to read, if she's not interested, you both forget about it and life goes on. I don't even go with funny all the time, depends how much time I have or how much I like the profile. I just re-enabled my OKC profile to see what the last message I sent was--the girl's profile was short and dry and it said she likes NCIS, so my message title was "Your preference?" (question to generate interest as to what I meant presuming it's just one of many in a list of emails) with a body of "Gibbs, or DiNozo? I'm guessing Gibbs." (question asked, her response is easy and doesn't put her on the spot to be creative) My guess was Gibbs specifically because of her dry profile, but I wouldn't have said that to her. Easy to write, took no time, got a response. I put probably thirty seconds into that beyond actually reading the profile. If you do bother to put a little more time into something that's actually clever and funny and in my experience you get a response the vast majority of the time.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 That is what I'm looking for at this point. I'm just not that ecstatic about going head first into a meaningful relationship that will just get me burned again. I know you won't want to hear this, but I'm not going to be up front about anything. If she assumes that because I'm taking her on dates that I want something more than just a casual relationship then that's on her. I've been lied to countless times by women, I see no reason to show a respect that I have never received. I won't blatantly tell them I love them just to get in their bed, but I won't be openly honest about my intentions. Experience has taught me otherwise. I'll try this approach and decide for myself. I agree, I wish you'd have that conversation with my ex gf. I personally know many who are. I know many more men who recently proposed to their gf's to be turned down. That would be something that would easily break me for good and can't imagine going through that. Rather be the PUA guys then those. You must not know many past the age of 30 or so then. Talk to these same guys when they hit their 40's/50's... Like I have. Washed up, bitter men (at least internally).. putting on a brave face... perpetually trolling OLD sites. Pretty sad existence. I know what it is like to 'feel' broken. How do you think I feel?? Not asking for sympathy here... but I've been divorced for over 12 years... from a man who couldn't bring himself to support my education after I supported his. Wasn't 'convenient' for him, were his words. The man I met after that and was engaged to died when I was 41... You think I have plenty of reasons to be angry and bitter?? You betcha! You survived your past hurt... and you will survive future hurts. That is what life is. A series of challenges. YOU decide how you want to take any of these... a learning experience... or a life-changing catastrophe. I really hope you aren't serious about lying to future women because past women lied to you. Would you want women lying to you because they were lied to before? You want revenge? Go take it out on something inanimate... not another living thing or human being. If you want to go to the 'dark side' then that is your choice and nothing I or anyone else says will change that. I'm sure you can find examples all day of people who will justify turning yourself into a liar and that women deserve what they get. I can't wish you well in your new method though.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 You don't have the situation of a girl filtering through 5, 10, 20, or 50 approaches at once to find a gem in the rough like you do with online, so it's apples and oranges--the timing of the formats are different. Brief and cocky/funny beats nice/sweet the vast majority of the time online. I'm talking about him learning how to approach people in a respectful, yet engaging way... which he CAN learn from observing people around him he respects. These PUA/golddigger tricks are BS... and only work in OLD because the access to acres of stupid, naive, insecure people. Anyway, I never did well with cocky... Something that shows they read my profile and have something interesting to say about it was sufficient.... Ultimately, I got so annoyed with these cookbook approaches from men, that I decided to put on my profile 'message me if I've messaged you first and you want to get to know me' Saved everyone alot of trouble... and you know what?? When *I* was the one doing the initiating... I tailored my approach to each and every man I contacted. If they sounded goofy, I'd come back with something goofy. If they sounded artsy or 'deep', I'd dig out the parts of me that were artsy or deep. Only once or twice did a man fail to respond or refuse to meet me... and that was without me posting even one single picture. Then again, I wasn't doing the cast net approach either. People can just tell when you are genuinely interested in them as a person.
Anela Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I don't believe every single person (man or woman) when they say the type of things that those two said. But I do believe that there are exceptions to every rule. Just because 90% of women respond to one type of thing doesn't mean they all do. Those two could indeed be the exception that proves the rule. Thank you, because I was telling the truth, and I didn't have a boyfriend the week after. I still don't. I didn't think that they should have to put up with me in the state that I was in at the time, and I wasn't about to potentially string them along, just to boost my own ego.
dispatch3d Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 yeah the more I get into dating, the more I realize it's less about who you are, and what you do and the more it's about how you come across, and what you say/do. (mostly the last bit)
daphne Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 there's something you aren't considering, though. who are the ones replying to your messages? the honest personal messages were getting replies from the handful of normal ones. getting replies from the admittedly much larger selection of certifiably insane ones by playing a role they respond to will get some of the insane ones but is that what you really want? :lmao: I didn't much respond to sarcasm, but did occasionally to short but funny messages. They went nowhere, because ultimately the guys weren't looking for someone like me and I knew it. But the guys who took some time to be personable and didn't seem to be hitting on every other woman online ended up in dates or dating.
FitChick Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Ok fine, let's say he's not a doctor, he works on wall street or he's a professional athlete....you'd go out with him. I go out with men of that caliber. It doesn't matter. If he's a jerk, I'm not interested. Believe me, I wish I had been born with the golddigger gene. I'd own a lot of property now and wouldn't be so worried about my retirement. But as the saying goes, "If you marry for money, you will earn every penny." Not quite that desperate yet.
Casablanca Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Girl's respond to BS messages, women respond to personalized real messages I only send personalized real messages....I have a decent/good success rate, I only write to those who sound interesting to me and who I feel are in my range of attractiveness.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I tailored my approach to each and every man I contacted. If they sounded goofy, I'd come back with something goofy. If they sounded artsy or 'deep', I'd dig out the parts of me that were artsy or deep. Only once or twice did a man fail to respond or refuse to meet me... and that was without me posting even one single picture. I am skeptical of these cookbook PUA/golddigger techniques and believe they only work on stupid, naive, insecure people.
Red Arremer Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I purposefully made my OLD profile as trolly and low-effort as possible, and I got all kinds of positive attention from it. Of course, it all dried up when I started going on actual dates and the girls realized I'm nowhere even close to that in real life. Seriously, the first half of the year I think I went on 6-7 first dates and 1 second date.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Girl's respond to BS messages, women respond to personalized real messages I only send personalized real messages....I have a decent/good success rate, I only write to those who sound interesting to me and who I feel are in my range of attractiveness. Haven't noticed anyone in the thread suggesting generic messages not tailored to the person or writing to people who don't seem interesting or attractive. Having said that, I have gone on many dates with people I didn't think I'd end up with just for the practice of building attraction. It's a great thing when you're first building your confidence with dating.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Definitely a laudable goal to transition from frustration to getting some results. Goal one should be get results, refining them comes later! I disagree. Low quality is not a valid 'result'. Any loser can get 'results'.
ascendotum Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Heeeyy GivenUP, good to see your turn around. Approaching OLD like this put me in a different mindset which helped to deal with the knockbacks. You spend less time on msgs and you become less emotionally invested in it, and of course the better % response rate helped as well. Guess you are trolling for stupid. No wonder your response rate went up.. :laugh: I admit the women that I got dates with with were not classy, ambitious, well educated women, but then neither did my prior email approach, just like the OP. This short & cocky approach wont work for many woman by any means, and as a few others have pointed out its only a foot in the door, but when a guy is really dejected with OLD, its certaintly better than the prior technique which got....squat....and now a Friday date with a very nice girl. Waaaaaay better. At minimum, well-crafted, funny, short emails get your profile viewed...attractive women get so many emails they don't even read them all, so it's also important that your TITLE catches their attention or they'll just delete your message Yep, this sums it up. This is what I discovered. I would go to the trouble of crafting up an interesting opening email that tried to build a connection with a number aspects of the woman's profile (probably like 20-100 other guys), and would find a number of times my profile was not even looked at. for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, Yes I really feel this is also why it works. The problem is that the women who are attracted to the sarcasm going to be disappointed if you can't deliver that, but maybe you'll luck out with a pity lay. A pity root beats staring at an empty inbox. Actually I think it was Imajerk that did a post on doing something just like this a little while back, but I just didn't get a chance to post a reply at the time.
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 I am skeptical of these cookbook PUA/golddigger techniques and believe they only work on stupid, naive, insecure people. ha ha... it is called getting to know someone... and responding to the 'energy' they are putting out in their profile. Approaching someone or anything, the way they want to be approached is a sign of consideration and shows sensitivity. Ever heard of that??
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Heeeyy GivenUP, good to see your turn around. Approaching OLD like this put me in a different mindset which helped to deal with the knockbacks. You spend less time on msgs and you become less emotionally invested in it, and of course the better % response rate helped as well. Guess you are trolling for stupid. No wonder your response rate went up.. :laugh: I admit the women that I got dates with with were not classy, ambitious, well educated women, but then neither did my prior email approach, just like the OP. This short & cocky approach wont work for many woman by any means, and as a few others have pointed out its only a foot in the door, but when a guy is really dejected with OLD, its certaintly better than the prior technique which got....squat....and now a Friday date with a very nice girl. Waaaaaay better. At minimum, well-crafted, funny, short emails get your profile viewed...attractive women get so many emails they don't even read them all, so it's also important that your TITLE catches their attention or they'll just delete your message Yep, this sums it up. This is what I discovered. I would go to the trouble of crafting up an interesting opening email that tried to build a connection with a number aspects of the woman's profile (probably like 20-100 other guys), and would find a number of times my profile was not even looked at. for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, Yes I really feel this is also why it works. The problem is that the women who are attracted to the sarcasm going to be disappointed if you can't deliver that, but maybe you'll luck out with a pity lay. A pity root beats staring at an empty inbox. Actually I think it was Imajerk that did a post on doing something just like this a little while back, but I just didn't get a chance to post a reply at the time. like I said... any loser can get 'results'... ... but keep it up. It is only a matter of time before the only women left doing OLD are the dregs...
ThsAmericanLife Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 I have gone on many dates with people I didn't think I'd end up with just for the practice of building attraction. It's a great thing when you're first building your confidence with dating. Great, so you used them for 'target practice'. Way to go...
Queen Zenobia Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Great, so you used them for 'target practice'. Way to go... I actually disagree with this characterization. Assuming he didn't lead them on or anything, it is after all just a date, not a proposal. There's a good chance she was doing the same thing. Might as well just have fun with it.
NursingGirl Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 I think a humorous profile and humorous messages are great! I don't think they should be insulting or *******-like, but humor is wonderful and I don't think it means that only silly unfocused "girls" appreciate it. Life is so full of crap sometimes that laughing when I get a message is fabulous! And I'm college educated. I still laugh at "I've got a great body, it's in my trunk!":D
Author GivenUp0083 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 Girl's respond to BS messages, women respond to personalized real messages I only send personalized real messages....I have a decent/good success rate, I only write to those who sound interesting to me and who I feel are in my range of attractiveness. So the girls I wrote personalized messages to and went on dates with that didn't have the decency after 3 or 4 dates to respond to a call/text that they appreciated the time spent but just weren't interested? I used to think so low of women who wouldn't even give me the respect of a rejection and would just "disappear", and now you're telling me that I those were REAL WOMEN? I wrote personalized emails and went on multiple dates...is that the best OLD has to offer? I'll take my chances with the short emails, thanks. :lmao: I didn't much respond to sarcasm, but did occasionally to short but funny messages. They went nowhere, because ultimately the guys weren't looking for someone like me and I knew it. But the guys who took some time to be personable and didn't seem to be hitting on every other woman online ended up in dates or dating. Well I just didn't get hardly any responses with that approach. I'm glad you like those messages, but the dozens of women I wasted time on sevenfold didn't appreciate them. I can only guy on what experience has shown me. I purposefully made my OLD profile as trolly and low-effort as possible, and I got all kinds of positive attention from it. Of course, it all dried up when I started going on actual dates and the girls realized I'm nowhere even close to that in real life. Seriously, the first half of the year I think I went on 6-7 first dates and 1 second date. That's funny, we are somewhat opposite. Every first date I went on I got a second date with if I wanted it. Meaning, if I had interest in going out again, so did they, I was never turned down for a second or third date. Now some of them ended up in relationships, some went nowhere. I just find it hard to believe that the way my first initial message dictates what kind of women they are.
ascendotum Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 like I said... any loser can get 'results'... ... but keep it up. It is only a matter of time before the only women left doing OLD are the dregs... Not quite. I read an article in Psychology Today on OLD where they had surveyed 10000 users, and I am fairly sure I read that 70% of men do not even get a date. The dissatisfaction level with OLD from both M and F was huge like 75% or more.
Zaphod B Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Good on you Givenup. You've employed an obviously successful strategy, so if it works keep it up. My advice to people struggling with getting replies is to always personalise your first message and I think I mentioned this to you myself amongst other things (your user name is familiar to me). So what you are doing is not only peaking their interest in you with your teasing, but you've personalised the message especially for them. You've also shown that you've read their profile....well at least it will appear to them that you have! It shows that you have made an effort and a lot of women who do on-line dating will appreciate that because they are so used to jerks and people who do generic or one line messages. You will be a breath of fresh air. IMO getting that initial response and getting them to communicate with you is the most difficult bit when it comes to the online dating part. The next step is to keep them interested and then score that initial first date. But that, in my experience, is a piece of cake. Edited September 1, 2011 by Zaphod B
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