GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 So about a month back I wrote about how I was throwing in the towel on the whole Online Dating thing. I was trying to be sincere, took the time to read everyone's profile I had interest in, and composed a well written/thoughtful emails to women in hopes of starting a conversation and potential date. To no surprise, I was getting almost zero responses. Then someone gave me this advice: Like you, I started of with short conventional msgs. Got nowhere, then changed to more detailed personally tailored msgs, with improved response rate but still frustrated with the generally lame worded responses back + flaking + disappointing dates. I had given up on it, but before I did I thought I would treat it as a joke and I went trollish. I got higher % response rate, and actually ended up in a relationship. Short provocative or stupid shyte like 'you have a cute cat', 'your dog looks skinny you need to feed it more shmakos', I see you list skydiving as a hobby..you aren't one of these girls who do it once and list it as a hobby are you', 'you call yourself smileyone but you don’t have a smiling picture!!', 'you call yourself adventurous but list abba as a favourite band...come on'. I dropped the very friendly, so keen to meet you attitude in correspondence, but made sure to show no hint of bitterness regarding online dating. For a month, just do the opposite of what you think you should. You got nothing to lose. I have to admit my response rate in the last couple weeks has been probably about 40%. Now not all of them lead to long conversations or dates, but a few of them I lined up dates with, and at least it's a response. Some of them responded cautiously, just at short as my initial email consisting of just one line or so. But if they have interest they eventually warm up, write more and more, then are open to a date. Some flake out (it happens) but only one woman called me a jerk to which I responded "well your profile says you love sarcasm so clearly you need to update it". Honestly, all women are pretty messed up in how so many preach they want sincere emails, but let's face it: being sarcastic, cocky, oddly funny....much more in line with what women will respond to. I just wish I had take on this approach earlier. I'll let you guys know how the dates go soon!
Imajerk17 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 So about a month back I wrote about how I was throwing in the towel on the whole Online Dating thing. I was trying to be sincere, took the time to read everyone's profile I had interest in, and composed a well written/thoughtful emails to women in hopes of starting a conversation and potential date. To no surprise, I was getting almost zero responses. Then someone gave me this advice: I have to admit my response rate in the last couple weeks has been probably about 40%. Now not all of them lead to long conversations or dates, but a few of them I lined up dates with, and at least it's a response. Some of them responded cautiously, just at short as my initial email consisting of just one line or so. But if they have interest they eventually warm up, write more and more, then are open to a date. Some flake out (it happens) but only one woman called me a jerk to which I responded "well your profile says you love sarcasm so clearly you need to update it". Honestly, all women are pretty messed up in how so many preach they want sincere emails, but let's face it: being sarcastic, cocky, oddly funny....much more in line with what women will respond to. I just wish I had take on this approach earlier. I'll let you guys know how the dates go soon! Actually, *I* gave you that advice first, but I am glad it is working for you!
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 Actually, *I* gave you that advice first, but I am glad it is working for you! No, you said something else, then tried to take credit for what that guy said by saying that's what YOU said, but you didn't.
thatone Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 there's something you aren't considering, though. who are the ones replying to your messages? the honest personal messages were getting replies from the handful of normal ones. getting replies from the admittedly much larger selection of certifiably insane ones by playing a role they respond to will get some of the insane ones but is that what you really want?
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 If I may ask: what is the age range of the women you're writing to?
Imajerk17 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 No, you said something else, then tried to take credit for what that guy said by saying that's what YOU said, but you didn't. No bro. Reread my posts. I told you to tease the girls and drop the Mr Nice Guy approach, several times. Anyway, I salute your newfound success!
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 If I may ask: what is the age range of the women you're writing to? 24-32 years old
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 24-32 years old Interesting. My range is somewhat younger (20-25) but I'm going to try this approach. Even if I get half (a quarter even) the response rate that you do that's still astronomically better than what I'm getting right now.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I agree with ascendotum entirely, it's best to keep initial emails light, short, and humorous. REALLY short ones like "you have a cute cat" are TOO simple, though. That one is good in that it does show you looked at their profile, but it doesn't really probe into their interests much or show you READ their profile--most guys just look at pictures and commenting on her cat only shows you looked at pictures. It may also scare away intelligent women, so if you'd prefer them, say something more clever. Short, witty comments on what they've written are better, and if they've got something funny or have said something opinionated or controversial in their profile, then commenting on that absolutely ideal. I PARTICULARLY like commenting on their own profile's opinionated, funny, or controversial comments because if you turn their own humor back at them and they can't take it, it shows they probably don't have a great sense of humor to begin with, and that spells trouble to me. If they respond to the initial email, it means they liked your profile and are interested, and that's when you spend more time on responses. More than a sentence or two in an opener is a frustrating waste of time for the most part, it makes online too frustrating and time-consuming. I still try to keep the first 2-3 emails as witty banter and move on to getting personal or meeting up only after the rapport is built.
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 Interesting. My range is somewhat younger (20-25) but I'm going to try this approach. Even if I get half (a quarter even) the response rate that you do that's still astronomically better than what I'm getting right now. You have nothing to lose, right? I don't even read their whole profile. I say things like "You actually wear a snuggie at work? Don't people tease you?" "You're allergic to air? Do you wear a gas mask all day?" "Why do you use the word 'actually' 10 times in your profile?"
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I don't even read their whole profile. I say things like "You actually wear a snuggie at work? Don't people tease you?" "You're allergic to air? Do you wear a gas mask all day?" "Why do you use the word 'actually' 10 times in your profile?" Those are great, sound just like what works well for me. If the profile looks particularly smokin' and I really want her to respond, I'll spend up to 10 minutes crafting a one liner that's funny enough that it just SCREAMS for a response. At minimum, well-crafted, funny, short emails get your profile viewed...attractive women get so many emails they don't even read them all, so it's also important that your TITLE catches their attention or they'll just delete your message. I try to make every opening message title a clever but unfinished question or provactive but unfinished thought that they have to click into the email to finish reading. None of this takes much time once you're used to it.
Anela Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I don't like lines like that - teasing right away. Of course, the one that showed actual concern for my welfare, in a small way, ended up being a controlling homophobic racist. I don't like the "sexy lady" comments, but I'm also on the lookout for potential negs.
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I don't like lines like that - teasing right away. Of course, the one that showed actual concern for my welfare, in a small way, ended up being a controlling homophobic racist. I don't like the "sexy lady" comments, but I'm also on the lookout for potential negs. Yeah. Well, I tried it the "good" way like the OP did for well over a year. That got me barely any responses and two dates with one girl. I'm willing to try something else just to see if I can get any kind of better results.
Feelsgoodman Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 there's something you aren't considering, though. who are the ones replying to your messages? the honest personal messages were getting replies from the handful of normal ones. getting replies from the admittedly much larger selection of certifiably insane ones by playing a role they respond to will get some of the insane ones but is that what you really want? There is truth to what both the OP and thatone say. I experimented with being cocky, sarcastic, even mildly offensive....and it does get a very high response rate. In fact, if you want a nearly 100% response rate, write something accusatory in your first message...for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, even to random strangers on the internet. However, such conversations ultimately lead nowhere. That's because most women on sites like POF are not there to actually meet guys. That's what it ultimately boils down to.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Yeah. Well, I tried it the "good" way like the OP did for well over a year. That got me barely any responses and two dates with one girl. I'm willing to try something else just to see if I can get any kind of better results. Are you willing to post a link to one of your online profiles? I'm sure people here could point out if something you've included is turning people off or give ideas for what could attract more people. If you're just looking for response, period, to get your confidence up, you could appeal both to people who like teasing and who don't like it like Anela by just letting their profile's tone guide your response. If their profile contains no teasing or humor, the odds they'll enjoy a teasing opener is reduced. I always send them anyway as a test--I'm usually really interested myself if they're not the type who enjoys teasing.
EnigmaticClarity Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 There is truth to what both the OP and thatone say. I experimented with being cocky, sarcastic, even mildly offensive....and it does get a very high response rate. In fact, if you want a nearly 100% response rate, write something accusatory in your first message...for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, even to random strangers on the internet. However, such conversations ultimately lead nowhere. That's because most women on sites like POF are not there to actually meet guys. That's what it ultimately boils down to. I find it definitely works better on pay sites like Match.com. I presume that's because when women are paying, you can be much more certain they ARE there to actually meet guys.
FitChick Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 if you want a nearly 100% response rate, write something accusatory in your first message...for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, even to random strangers on the internet. I just delete those emails without responding, figuring the guy is an arsehole. If a man writes a sincere, polite, friendly email but I don't fancy him, I send a generic, "Thank you for your interest but unfortunately we are not a good match. Good luck on your search!" Sometimes I'll get a further response thanking me for bothering to reply at all. I figure why give men more to be bitter about?
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Are you willing to post a link to one of your online profiles? I'm sure people here could point out if something you've included is turning people off or give ideas for what could attract more people. If you're just looking for response, period, to get your confidence up, you could appeal both to people who like teasing and who don't like it like Anela by just letting their profile's tone guide your response. If their profile contains no teasing or humor, the odds they'll enjoy a teasing opener is reduced. I always send them anyway as a test--I'm usually really interested myself if they're not the type who enjoys teasing. I've had a few offers from people to review my profile if I send it in a private message. I may take up one of those offers (I've been contemplating the idea for a few days). I won't post it in a thread though because I've revealed a lot of stuff on LS about my personal life (like the fact that I've never kissed a girl) that I've not revealed offline and I would prefer to keep some level of anonymity in that respect.
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 I don't like lines like that - teasing right away. Of course, the one that showed actual concern for my welfare, in a small way, ended up being a controlling homophobic racist. I don't like the "sexy lady" comments, but I'm also on the lookout for potential negs. "Sexy lady" would be complimenting, we're not in the business of doing that through emails. I'll compliment her on her dress or that she looks nice on the first date, maybe. Otherwise there will be none of that because compliments have a negative effect on her interest. Anela, I know you SAY you don't like the teasing right away, but that's what women are responding to. Every "nice" email I've written ended up in a black hole of an inbox somewhere. Calling out something funny or lightly criticizing a woman's profile is the way to get her attention, begin a conversation, and land a date. There is truth to what both the OP and thatone say. I experimented with being cocky, sarcastic, even mildly offensive....and it does get a very high response rate. In fact, if you want a nearly 100% response rate, write something accusatory in your first message...for some reason, women feel the need to justify themselves, even to random strangers on the internet. However, such conversations ultimately lead nowhere. That's because most women on sites like POF are not there to actually meet guys. That's what it ultimately boils down to. I'll show her what kind of person I am on the date, and one of the girls I'm going out with Friday sounds like a very very nice girl. Very kind and friendly so far. But you never know until you meet. I am a conversationalist, all I need is to get their attention and then I'm more than confident in my ability to land a date assuming there is actual interest. There is a fine line between my approach and outright insulting them for a response, but with practice I'm sure others can make sure not to cross it. As for leading nowhere, that's not really true, the nice and complimentary approach clearly leads to no where since it doesn't get responses. Those who get no responses have nothing to lose at this point.
Anela Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I just delete those emails without responding, figuring the guy is an arsehole. If a man writes a sincere, polite, friendly email but I don't fancy him, I send a generic, "Thank you for your interest but unfortunately we are not a good match. Good luck on your search!" Sometimes I'll get a further response thanking me for bothering to reply at all. I figure why give men more to be bitter about? Same here. A few guys - guys who I really did want to talk to again in the future - sounded like they thought they were getting the brush-off, but were polite anyhow (and I was actually interested in getting to know them better at some point, I just panicked because I felt like crap). The others either didn't respond, or were also polite to me. I did that, because I've seen women on the site who have actually written that they can't believe some of the men contacting them (as in: they're ugly). I thought that was cruel.
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 I just delete those emails without responding, figuring the guy is an arsehole. If a man writes a sincere, polite, friendly email but I don't fancy him, I send a generic, "Thank you for your interest but unfortunately we are not a good match. Good luck on your search!" Sometimes I'll get a further response thanking me for bothering to reply at all. I figure why give men more to be bitter about? I commend you for at least responding with a no interest email. That is the polite thing to do and you should always get good responses for that. But let's be honest here FitChick, if a guy wrote you an "arsehole" email and he was 6'2", dark hair, thin, tan, and was a doctor...you would respond and even go out with him. Please don't insult us by denying this.
Anela Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 "Sexy lady" would be complimenting, we're not in the business of doing that through emails. I'll compliment her on her dress or that she looks nice on the first date, maybe. Otherwise there will be none of that because compliments have a negative effect on her interest. I liked one man the most, because he seemed to be sincerely concerned about me in some way. When I'd written something else about not being ready to meet anyone, after all, I was told that I was too pretty to hide. Sincere compliments like that, I *like*. I did a little swoon when someone I had a crush on, said that I was cool, several years back, and was nice to me in general. "Sexy lady" is horn-dog territory. One man followed that comment up with "Oh, I'm for real, hon." Sure. Anela, I know you SAY you don't like the teasing right away, but that's what women are responding to. Every "nice" email I've written ended up in a black hole of an inbox somewhere. Calling out something funny or lightly criticizing a woman's profile is the way to get her attention, begin a conversation, and land a date. Not with me. I'll show her what kind of person I am on the date, and one of the girls I'm going out with Friday sounds like a very very nice girl. Very kind and friendly so far. But you never know until you meet. I am a conversationalist, all I need is to get their attention and then I'm more than confident in my ability to land a date assuming there is actual interest. There is a fine line between my approach and outright insulting them for a response, but with practice I'm sure others can make sure not to cross it. As for leading nowhere, that's not really true, the nice and complimentary approach clearly leads to no where since it doesn't get responses. Those who get no responses have nothing to lose at this point. Again, that isn't the case with me, and FitChick above, who I agreed with before I saw your response.
Anela Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I commend you for at least responding with a no interest email. That is the polite thing to do and you should always get good responses for that. But let's be honest here FitChick, if a guy wrote you an "arsehole" email and he was 6'2", dark hair, thin, tan, and was a doctor...you would respond and even go out with him. Please don't insult us by denying this. I deny it.
Author GivenUp0083 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 I liked one man the most, because he seemed to be sincerely concerned about me in some way. When I'd written something else about not being ready to meet anyone, after all, I was told that I was too pretty to hide. Sincere compliments like that, I *like*. I did a little swoon when someone I had a crush on, said that I was cool, several years back, and was nice to me in general. "Sexy lady" is horn-dog territory. One man followed that comment up with "Oh, I'm for real, hon." Sure. I don't understand this as I told you I don't take that approach and don't know too many who have. But hey, if you feel that strongly about it, you have my recognition. Not with me. Every woman that I've met who thought she was special in some way or the exception to the rule has always been exactly the opposite. Nothing against you personally, but I just don't believe you. Again, that isn't the case with me, and FitChick above, who I agreed with before I saw your response. I can't believe you, I'm sorry, but if I was tall/dark/handsome with a big house, nice car, and I was a doctor who treated sick little children, then you would go out with me even if I insulted you initially. You may come back with a rude or upset response of your own, but you'd keep the conversation going with hopes I'd come around and show a nicer side, then you would be more than accepting of a date. Women are superficial like that, you will overlook a coke addiction if he has all the other "right things".
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 I actually think that Anela and Fitchick are telling the truth. For themselves that is. I don't think their opinions are in the mainstream though. At least not the mainstream for the age range that myself and the OP are talking about (early 20s to early 30s).
Recommended Posts