confusedan Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 without going into much detail i have good reason to believe h has cheated, but he is denying any wrong doing. I have taken an std test which is all clean, but while the evidence is strong, it isn't completing convicting. In one of our heated arguements he said he would take a polygraph, but i have since gone almost crazy with snooping, etc, that we are really on a thin rope and I am reluctant to ask to him to go ahead with the polygraph because I am afraid it will do our marriage in, but I am having a hard time healing and letting this go and I am afraid I am going to go crazy and snap thinking of all the what if's, he is not interested in counseling. What step should I take? We have young kids and I am a sahm and I am really sad about how this has devastated both of our trust for each other, i am wondering if there is anyway to remain in a functioning marriage.
TurboGirl Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 What evidence do you have? Do you have a specific OW? Do you have emails? Lipstick on the collar, hotel receipts that he can't explain? Counseling would be much more useful than a poly. Especially if he is denying any wrong doing. I've never heard of anyone having a poly for suspected cheating, btw. Have you considered that he just might be telling the truth?
Author confusedan Posted August 30, 2011 Author Posted August 30, 2011 Condoms which he said was a work prank...I am honestly on the fence as to whether it was a joke or signs of an affair. He has been as open as he can be, letting me check emails...though he deleted all texts so I don't know about them...I just want to wake up from thia nightmare and I want to believe him and move on but whether he cheated, I went through the emotions so I have to figure out how to to cope.
speedster Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 whoa there.. take a few deep breaths. you don't know for sure, right? condoms are a bad sign, but you know your husband...would he really make a mistake like that? and personally, in my experience, a spouse giving up their email addresses means nothing. if they are cheating there are a dozen accounts you don't know about or even know to ask about. twitter/tumblr even pandora music sites allow people to communicate. all smartphones have apps that hide contacts, text messages, and even then it doesn't matter. just use Yahoo or any other IM service on your phone and the records only show that you used yahoo, not who you messaged. i know you're hurt and scared, but to catch someone will take a clear head and some work. in the meantime go over the bills, phone logs etc.. see if a pattern shows up. and before anything else, find a counselor. mine has been invaluable.
nyrias2 Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 One more point. Polygraph is highly inaccurate. I think the accuracy is no more than 60-70% and there are also false positives. So I wouldn't go there. And the unfortunate thing is, if he covers his tracks well, it would be extremely hard to discover anything. Worse yet. He got spooked and he may just stop and erases the trails. If so, you may never find out and never be sure.
Maladjusted Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Cthough he deleted all texts so I don't know about them... Can you look through cell phone records and see who the number he was texting to belongs to?
Author confusedan Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 Can you look through cell phone records and see who the number he was texting to belongs to?. No not with Sprint...I am in a tough spot now I think there have been many signs. Condoms on 2 seperate occasions...I note that said I love you a year ago in his pocket. The chick at his work he was too friendly with quit the day after I went to his work after I discovered the condom wrapper. She isn't fb friends with him anymore...oh he deleted all phone calls august 5th I found the wrapper on the 3 rd...
linwood Posted August 31, 2011 Posted August 31, 2011 Forget the poly. There`s a woman where I work who leaves a 3 pack of Trojans in my desk drawer every now and again so his work prank plea might have some merit. If that`s all you`ve got you need to go quiet about it and snoop a bit more discretely if you really think he`s cheating.
Author confusedan Posted August 31, 2011 Author Posted August 31, 2011 And now I wonder what all he is hiding..I found a withdrawal slip for a bank we don't have an account for out near the bush where he parks.
linwood Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 And now I wonder what all he is hiding..I found a withdrawal slip for a bank we don't have an account for out near the bush where he parks. You need to be calm and slowly gather as much evidence like that as you can until it all gives you a clearer picture of what`s happening. Can you check his texts? E-Mail? Phone logs? Computer history? Search his car, if he has a bank account he has deposits slips/checks/account statements somewhere.
rowell2024 Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 whoa there.. take a few deep breaths. you don't know for sure, right? condoms are a bad sign, but you know your husband...would he really make a mistake like that? and personally, in my experience, a spouse giving up their email addresses means nothing. if they are cheating there are a dozen accounts you don't know about or even know to ask about. twitter/tumblr even pandora music sites allow people to communicate. all smartphones have apps that hide contacts, text messages, and even then it doesn't matter. just use Yahoo or any other IM service on your phone and the records only show that you used yahoo, not who you messaged. i know you're hurt and scared, but to catch someone will take a clear head and some work. in the meantime go over the bills, phone logs etc.. see if a pattern shows up. and before anything else, find a counselor. mine has been invaluable. Well said. Of course he allowed access to the known email account...after he sanitized it of any incriminating evidence. The UNKNOWN accounts are the problem. Many cheaters, once their betrayed spouse becomes suspicious, pretend to be transparent to throw the betrayed spouse off the trail. One of the most common affair tools are the secret email/IM accounts and the secret cell phone. He may already have a secret phone if he thinks she's suspicious. You need some computer monitoring software/keylogger on the computer and a VAR to sniff those out.
speedster Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 you might try spokeo.com, pipl.com, beenverified.com and a few other sites that reverse track email address and usernames, as well as phone numbers. the search tools wade through social sites and dating sites as well. as far as the bank account goes, unless you have a current credit report or tax return where it should be listed, that will take some doing (or $$) to uncover. best of luck to you. if you need help with the above sites just let me know.
dreamingoftigers Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Polygraph is no longer as unreliable as above stated. He offered it, so take him up on it. Polys are more likely to produce false negatives then false positives when they are inaccurate anyways. So if he is willing, that should be the next direction. That being said: the condoms thing would normally be a total red flag for me too except that last week my husband and I organized our garage and I found 3 of ours leftover in a box from when we lived next door. I shoved them in my pocket and later he found 3 condoms in my pocket and flipped right out. Jeezus. Of course, he didn't ask or anything or gather "any other evidence" (because there isn't any, duh). He just used it in an argument when I didn't want to go on a picnic. In a way it was kind of "ha ha" because he's a cheater and he kind of deserved to wonder for a bit. I even checked the expiry on the back hoping that that would show that I was innocent, but they don't expire for another year. So I just got pretty blunt and asked if he had any gut feeling that anything was "wrong" or "off" and he said no. Or if he had any other reason or time or suspicion about me cheating. No, none of that. So if in doubt, trust your gut.
Author confusedan Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 (edited) Yes I would love to 'stick my head in the sand', but my gut is not letting it go. I told him I would stick with him and work things out but ur still is denying any wrong doing...I have no access to phone records unless he gets them and he gets mad when I ask...I did tell him he has his chance to come clean but if I find convicting evidence on my own it is over...he has talked about skipping country if I leave..he is not a citizen. I have plenty of evidence but he has a story for everything. Should I loosen the reigns in hopes of catching him on the future? An online friend said maybe he doesn't want to end the affair which maybe why he denys.. Edited September 1, 2011 by confusedan
dreamingoftigers Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Yes I would love to 'stick my head in the sand', but my gut is not letting it go. I told him I would stick with him and work things out but ur still is denying any wrong doing...I have no access to phone records unless he gets them and he gets mad when I ask...I did tell him he has his chance to come clean but if I find convicting evidence on my own it is over...he has talked about skipping country if I leave..he is not a citizen. I have plenty of evidence but he has a story for everything. Should I loosen the reigns in hopes of catching him on the future? An online friend said maybe he doesn't want to end the affair which maybe why he denys.. What is a Nirvana Citizen? And his defensiveness (and minor threats) plus your gut feeling make this look worse.
Author confusedan Posted September 1, 2011 Author Posted September 1, 2011 Blech autocorrect it should read not a citizen...
dreamingoftigers Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Oh LOL, I type on an iPhone too. I have written many interesting and accidental poems. I actually googled Nirvana Citizen because there are so many "common" terms these days that aren't in my memory banks. I didn't want to appear behind the times. And I'm only 29.
KathyM Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 If your gut feeling tells you he is cheating, that is usually pretty reliable, so I've read. He has offered to take a polygraph test. That either means that he knows he's inocent and wants to prove it to you, or that he is just bluffing to get you off his back, and he thinks you won't take him up on the offer. I would suggest you call his bluff and schedule the polygraph test. If it is done by a reputable place, it's usually pretty accurate. I know I would want to know one way or the other. In order to get past this, you have to know the truth, and he has to come clean. Schedule the polygraph.
Owl Posted September 1, 2011 Posted September 1, 2011 Is the phone on a joint account in both of your names? If so, request a detailed call record for the last several months. You can also try asking for the actual text messages themselves. If nothing else, you should be able to get some phone numbers from the detailed bills. Then start doing some research on who the far end is...
nyrias2 Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 If your gut feeling tells you he is cheating, that is usually pretty reliable, so I've read. He has offered to take a polygraph test. That either means that he knows he's inocent and wants to prove it to you, or that he is just bluffing to get you off his back, and he thinks you won't take him up on the offer. I would suggest you call his bluff and schedule the polygraph test. If it is done by a reputable place, it's usually pretty accurate. I know I would want to know one way or the other. In order to get past this, you have to know the truth, and he has to come clean. Schedule the polygraph. I would be VERY careful about using polygraph tests. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-09-lie_x.htm Couple of numbers: Attorney General John Ashcroft estimated the false-positive rate of polygraphs at 15%, about a one-in-six chance, at a news conference. That seems high for something as important as finding out the truth about your spouse. Also, and I quote: A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average validity at about 61%, a little better than chance. And University of Utah psychologists published a 1994 report that suggested biting your tongue, pressing your toes to the floor and counting backwards by 7's during control questions would screw up the accuracy of polygraphs.
KathyM Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 I would be VERY careful about using polygraph tests. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-09-lie_x.htm Couple of numbers: Attorney General John Ashcroft estimated the false-positive rate of polygraphs at 15%, about a one-in-six chance, at a news conference. That seems high for something as important as finding out the truth about your spouse. Also, and I quote: A 1997 survey of 421 psychologists estimated the test's average validity at about 61%, a little better than chance. And University of Utah psychologists published a 1994 report that suggested biting your tongue, pressing your toes to the floor and counting backwards by 7's during control questions would screw up the accuracy of polygraphs. You're talking about studies done 14 to 17 years ago. I read that today's polygraph methods (some of them) can be 95% reliable. It all depends on the method used and the person administering the test. Some can detect a lie, even if a person is trying to beat the polygraph through various trick methods. Just be sure to do some research and get a reliable place to administer the test.
nyrias2 Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 You're talking about studies done 14 to 17 years ago. I read that today's polygraph methods (some of them) can be 95% reliable. It all depends on the method used and the person administering the test. Some can detect a lie, even if a person is trying to beat the polygraph through various trick methods. Just be sure to do some research and get a reliable place to administer the test. Do you have a cite of 95% accuracy tested recently? I am interested to know.
Woman In Blue Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 ConfusedAn - NEVER, EVER ignore your gut when it's literally screaming to you. And it's screaming for a REASON. Is his cell phone a work-issued phone? You said you can't get the bills but he CAN - and gets angry when you ask. Why do you think he gets angry? Usually, people with nothing to hide are only TOO happy to prove you wrong, yet he won't provide them. Huge red flag. Look, you can create an account ONLINE to view his billing at the Sprint.com site if it's not a work phone. It's pretty easy to do. It doesn't matter if he gets paper billing or not - you can STILL access the account ONLINE 7 days a week. Do it now (if it's NOT a work phone). Secondly, you might want to consider placing a VAR (voice-activated recorder) in his car. I've read thousands of posts by women who were being cheated on that they'd done this and gotten the answers to their questions. I've never seen a VAR personally, but I hear tell they're fairly small - not the size of the huge tape recorders of yesteryear. Some women have attached them underneath the driver's seat or in the bag/netting on the back of the driver's or passenger's seat. I've heard tell some women also stuck them up under the dashboard but sometimes radio or road noise causes trouble with being able to hear what was said. They used sticky velcro to attach these little units to wherever they stuck them (one piece on the car and one piece on the unit itself), and were able to record conversations their husbands were having on their cell phones while driving to work. I do recall them cautioning that you must place some black tape over the little light that goes on when the unit is recording, or it might be spotted while he's driving at night. If he's using his cell phone to get in touch with his OW (which is VERY LIKELY since he refuses to produce the bills) you might very well finally get the answers to what your gut is screaming to you. Lastly, if he uses the computer at home, consider paying for a good keylogger (RelyTec, SpectorPro, etc.). If you're not comfortable with software keyloggers, then consider a hardware keylogger. It simply plugs into a USB port and is the size of a thumb drive - very small and not noticed at all if you plug it into a back USB port on your home computer. That will record any and all keystrokes he makes at the computer - logging into his secret email account (if he has one), chatting, replying to an email, logging into a BANK website to access the secret account you found the receipt for - the possibilities are endless. With respect to polygraphs, I too have read that they're pretty accurate (but not 100%). Alot does rely on the expert administering the test so that does come into play. HOWEVER, most regular people fear a poly (unless they're such a convincing liar or sociopath that their overblown ego has them believing they'll also trump a poly). But the average person has a healthy fear of being outed by one, and it's very common to get a confession on the way to the polygraph office. Alot of people start singing like a canary when their time is up and it's polygraph time. I guess they're afraid of being made to look like a lying fool or they think that it will somehow be less damaging to hear it out of their mouths rather than having the polygraph expert telling you what a liar you're married to. So don't underestimate the power a poly has over the mind of a liar who feels he's only minutes from being exposed. And Confused, DON'T confront the second you find out one thing - where there's one thing, there is usually alot MORE. If you jump the gun and confront with one piece of evidence, you'll be giving him the opportunity to hide his stuff even deeper where you may not be able to find it. Make sure you have ALL your information (and copies of everything stored in a SAFE PLACE) before you confront him. Gee, who would have thought that my years of reading infidelity boards would impart me with such Secret Spy knowledge?
Author confusedan Posted September 3, 2011 Author Posted September 3, 2011 h finally let me view the bill today..There was nothing really suspicious going on, he is in sales and gets hundreds of calls from strange numbers so it took a while to sift through them. He said he was worried I would start calling all the numbers and call his customers, we did call one suspicious number and it was a customer, but honestly there was nothing there...The withdrawal slip I looked at again and there is no way it could be his as he was with me and the kids during that time frame so it may have been from a neighbor, i was ready to end it but I am beginning to think that maybe my imagination had gotten the better of me, I don't think he would cheat and it could be pp hormones affecting my judgement. baby is crying gotta go...
Maria23 Posted September 3, 2011 Posted September 3, 2011 If you really can't tell if he's lying and you want to know if he is, then just be fair. I know your feelings that you really want to know the truth but also be fair. Do not prioritize your own desire in finding out the truth. It's some kind of psychological that when you think he's lying or hiding something you would eagerly support what you are thinking. This might be awkward but you might want to see how he reacts when you ask something. Person who is honest would not avoid your questions towards him or her, but a lying person would show isolation and would not be able to look straight if while you are asking him. They are usually uneasy. Check out more tips here: http://www.datingexcellent.com/2011/09/01/be-a-human-lie-detector-how-to-know-if-a-person-is-lying/ And this might be strange but look at the direction of his eye (LOL) if it's on the left, he's "probably" lying. This has to do with the right brain or the left brain which is responsible for constructing imagination. Well, these are just body language tips which can be helpful for you.
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