silktricks Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 A lot of thought processes for both BS and WS post DDay rest on the premise that the A was totally wrong. I am not saying there are not wrong elements, but in that time and place it seemed right to your W. This creates a psychic split for the WS which is extremely hard to confront. Post A thinking tends to de-contextualise the A, and view it only within the context of the post DDay M. This is harsh on the WS, who still has a full understanding of the context of the A which seemed right at the time. WS knows that explaining that to BS will result in PAIN and perceived justification. You know the details, and your WS has a conflicting set of contexts which you want resolved. Just be thankful that your WS has accepted the post DDay view of things as the 'correct one'. I didn't, and I put my xBH through hell as a result. The problem is, if your WS explains all, she will be justifying the A. That was the context she worked with at the time. But you already know that, don't you? Why ask? Because if the BS cannot fully understand and accept everything that went into the fact of the affair, they can also never trust that it won't happen again. Did the BS have a part in the situation? Most of the time (but not always) the answer is yes, they did have a role, as they were a part of the flawed marriage that spawned the affair. If the WS and BS truly and deeply discuss what happened, often the WS will come to the realization that the explanations really are simply justifications. They could have made different choices, too. They chose the path they chose, not because it was the only one available, but rather because of flaws within them, flaws which can be mended. If both parties (WS and BS) truly want to recover the marriage, they also want to make sure that their partner is healed. The WS chose to cheat for many reasons probably, but at least one of those reasons was selfishness. The BS must be able see the WS place themselves and their own pain to one side, and place the needs of the BS front and center for some period of time. Correspondingly, after a reasonable time period, the fWS needs to see that the fBS is willing to let go of the pain, and not hold the fWS hostage to it forever.
JRoy Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 I agree 1000% IMHO, many WS and BS handle their reconciliation this way. The WS says they are sorry (and probably really do mean it) and the BS is so relieved to have their life return to normal and their spouse back that the affair is swept under the rug. Meanwhile, the affair still sits there smoldering between them. Never really discussed because it is too uncomfortable for the WS (too bad) and the BS doesn't want to stir the pot. More conflict avoidance from both partners. And it's very likely that another affair will occur in the future because nothing was solved in this situation. I agree. This is exactly what happened between my wife and me. And the price for avoiding the conflict is almost too great. Its a shame that I have to admit this at my age and regret not doing the hard work at the time her affair ended and we 'reconciled'.
Author Decimated Posted September 9, 2011 Author Posted September 9, 2011 I agree. This is exactly what happened between my wife and me. And the price for avoiding the conflict is almost too great. I agree. Conflict avoidance is what got her, and us, into this situation to begin with. If I allow her to skate on talking about what happened and why it happened, I am reinforcing the belief in her mind that Lying, deception, and avoidance are the way to stay out of trouble and face no consequences. No lessons learned = High probability on future repetition.
mittens22 Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 i just read your other thread and i was wondering who did you get her to admit it was a pa as will as ea
2sunny Posted September 12, 2011 Posted September 12, 2011 her actions don't seem to point to her being sorry - just sorry she got caught... are you sure she isn't still doing it? since she's still thinking - and acting to protect herself first - she's not trying to repair the M - she's just doing damage control. in my experience - she hasn't had enough consequences for her bad behavior - and she IS likely to do it again. since she is comfy in her cover up = i'd say she needs more consequences - kick her out until she gets honest, open and willing to disclose everything. with holding her truth eliminates your choice to forgive what her truth is = so she's holding the power and road blocking the recover process. IF she's intending to repair the damage SHE caused - she should/could be offering you back your peace of mind - which should be ANYTHING you wish to ask or know. since she's not - she doesn't intend to repair the damage - she just wants you to forget about it. THAT is not enough! my exH did it that way at the ten year mark - then when i caught him again at the 20 year mark - i threw him out... without even a conversation. he never wanted to talk about it - he was above that... and he didn't repair anything... and he didn't give me back the peace of mind i deserved... it sucked - big time! i'm happier now. i don't have to WONDER IF he's cheating... at this point it's easier to be without that nightmare. consequences... she needs severe consequences to get her motivated to do the work she should be willing to do. tell her to move out until she gets rigorously honest about what she did - and gets counseling - and completely changes that $hitty attitude she's got. you deserve way more than what she's offered you!
Author Decimated Posted September 13, 2011 Author Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) i just read your other thread and i was wondering who did you get her to admit it was a pa as will as ea I couldn't get her to admit it for months. finally, out of frustration, I contacted the OM's wife. She had proof. Many months of messaging between them...in chronological order. She sent them to me... painful stuff. It was all there in black and white...in their words. It was obvious that it was a PA. Only after I confronted her with this evidence did she admit to it. This was many months ago and after she cut off contact with him. She is still holding back on telling me the whole story and why she did it. I think her shame and fear of what I will do when she tells me everything is holding her back. I feel that in her mind we are progressing well and she thinks this conversation will set us back, or worse, drive me away completely. She is right about our progress. If I was somehow able to forget about her affair, I would consider our relationship to be OK and moving forward. What she doesn't realize is that I an stuck without it...I can't move forward. Edited September 13, 2011 by Decimated
2sunny Posted September 13, 2011 Posted September 13, 2011 I couldn't get her to admit it for months. finally, out of frustration, I contacted the OM's wife. She had proof. Many months of messaging between them...in chronological order. She sent them to me... painful stuff. It was all there in black and white...in their words. It was obvious that it was a PA. Only after I confronted her with this evidence did she admit to it. This was many months ago and after she cut off contact with him. She is still holding back on telling me the whole story and why she did it. I think her shame and fear of what I will do when she tells me everything is holding her back. I feel that in her mind we are progressing well and she thinks this conversation will set us back, or worse, drive me away completely. She is right about our progress. If I was somehow able to forget about her affair, I would consider our relationship to be OK and moving forward. What she doesn't realize is that I an stuck without it...I can't move forward. she's still stealing your peace of mind - by not allowing you to understand what she expects you to forgive. what are YOU going to do - since she's unwilling to be completely honest? without honesty and openness and her willingness - you don't have any relationship... expect one based upon lies, deceit, betrayal and cover up. she - obviously was never intending to admit anything to you then - and still isn't now - so how can ANY forgiveness begin when she still isn't willing to be honest? i'd bet the OM's W shut down the affair - and your W didn't intend for it to end when it did... so her intentions may have been for it to continue had his BS not found out. she may still be fantasizing about wanting to be in that affair. her actions and words don't indicate she wants the marriage to work - she's still road blocking any progress for healing... so you have NOTHING to work from. she's still not willing to bring her truth to the table. i'd kick her out - based on her unwillingness and dishonesty alone. but that's just me.
Author Decimated Posted September 14, 2011 Author Posted September 14, 2011 she's still stealing your peace of mind - by not allowing you to understand what she expects you to forgive. what are YOU going to do - since she's unwilling to be completely honest? without honesty and openness and her willingness - you don't have any relationship... expect one based upon lies, deceit, betrayal and cover up. she - obviously was never intending to admit anything to you then - and still isn't now - so how can ANY forgiveness begin when she still isn't willing to be honest? i'd bet the OM's W shut down the affair - and your W didn't intend for it to end when it did... so her intentions may have been for it to continue had his BS not found out. she may still be fantasizing about wanting to be in that affair. her actions and words don't indicate she wants the marriage to work - she's still road blocking any progress for healing... so you have NOTHING to work from. she's still not willing to bring her truth to the table. i'd kick her out - based on her unwillingness and dishonesty alone. but that's just me. Well, I agree with some of this. I do think she wants the marriage to work. She just doesn't want to put aside her shame and embarrasment to open up and come clean with what and why it happened. She doesn't want to face the possible consequences for her actions. I think she fears that it may halt our progress or worse, I may leave her. She is doing many other things to show she is trustworthy again. I don't think she understands that she is blocking the healing process for me. I do agree that she never intended me to find out about her affair...what cheater does? Once I found out about the EA she tried desperately to conceal the PA part. She was convinced that I would leave her if I found out. I do think that it would still be going on if I didn't discover it. My wife was the one who shut down the affair after I found out about the EA. I was going to divorce her. The OM"s wife knew for a year but did nothing...I think she was in denial. The OM was upset when my wife went NC.
2sunny Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 what are YOU going to do - since she's unwilling to be completely honest? there's no way for you to heal since she won't be honest... what happens next is up to you... you either get over without knowing what you need to know (acceptance - or you leave after telling her you can't be expected to forgive what you don't know or understand.
Darth Vader Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) I am looking for insight from CS's but I will listen any thoughts you may have. The main obstacle in my marriage recovery still seems to be my wife's inability to talk about her affair. I feel the rest of our recovery is going OK. We seem to be able to talk about everything else but this. I feel it is important for me to hear it from her…in her words, what happened and why it happened. The vast majority of what I know about her affair I learned from my detective work and the OM's wife. Over the last 6 months she has gave me bits and pieces...like a puzzle that I have to put together. She still seems to shut down whenever I bring it up and I will get very little. Her mood completely changes and suddenly she can't seem to look me in the eyes. She has said "Why do you want to know" and "Why can't you just forget it". My story aside, here are some general questions I have: Is this common for some CS's not to want to discuss their affair after the BS already knows most of the story? Why is this so hard for them to talk about? Are they afraid of making things worse if they talk about it? Could it be shame or embarrassment that prevents her from talking about it? Is this a compartmentalization of the affair? Could they be trying to forget what they did…suppressing it or some type of personal denial? Should they be given an ultimatum/time limit, to discuss this? Does a BS really need to hear this from the CS or is it possible to move forward in marriage recovery without it? Should we let this get in the way of our recovery? The bolded part tells you that she doesn't want to face any consequences for her actions, like you leaving her! It also shows me she's not sorry for the affair, she's only sorry she got caught! Think about it, if you didn't catch her, would she still be screwing this OM? YES! So her saying that in bolded type above, and not telling you much if anything, in my mind is a form of "Trickle Truth"! Frankly, I say drop her ASS! Edited September 18, 2011 by Darth Vader 1
DarkPrince Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 OP I am going through the same thing you are, word for word. The fact that she wont talk about it and wants it forgotten about really gives me a bad feeling. I want her to break down and tell me every single detail, no matter how painful it is for her or me. It's not fair that she is keeping the intimate details between her and the guy. Why is he allowed to know such privileged info and I am not? It feels like a double betrayal. If i was caught cheating and all I had to do was tell all the sorid deatails of the sex, then I would be glad to explain it to the very last moan. Why she wont do it, baffles, and frustrates me. The guy was a fat, drunken loser. Maybe thats why. I still cant believe he got into her without a condom. She wouldnt even let me cum in her but she let him. Unbelievable. Of course now she feels ashamed, but thats not my fault. It would be like if I went out and picked up a nasty, homeless, menatlly retarted crack whore, and spend good money to have unprotected sex with her. I would feel ashamed, and my wife would think "how could he stoop so low? Is that the best he could do? He has to PAY good money for what most men wouldnt even look at? Thats what Im thinking when it comes to her and that nasty drunk. Dont mean to derail thread, but I am going through the exact same thing. I just want to know why, and I want to hear it from her.
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