LittleTiger Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 TuffCookieX - I've just noticed your Avatar! Love it!!! Note to Woggle (and like-minded gents) - please don't take offence - the joke here is more on women than it is on men. Neither men nor women are perfect, but women are the one's who are 'waiting' for Mr Perfect! More fool us!
Cee Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I have been hit by thunderbolt chemistry and had great relationships with them. But at the time, I wasn't looking to settle down so I never gave it a thought if they were "the one." With my current boyfriend, I didn't think, "Oh, the one." Instead, I thought "Finally, some one." I love him to pieces, but I don't dare to be presumptuous to know our future. Anything can happen to either of us. I try to enjoy what I have while I have it.
chelle21689 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 great answer Cee. I wish I could try to enjoy and live in the moment but I tend to worry about the future. Right now I am living in the moment but there are times when I have a huge headache thinking what ifs.
TuffCookieX Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 TuffCookieX - I've just noticed your Avatar! Love it!!! Thanks, I had it up when I joined the site, the text is just too small for people to pick up on right away.
quankanne Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 there was something about him that I knew I could trust, it was a sure feeling, but by no means was it romantic interest – heck, I was in love with someone else and it took a long time for me to realize that what I had with him was WAY different than what I had with the other guy, and that the "sure feeling" was I needed to pay attention to. And once I realized that, I could see us together and a future with him didn't scare me (I was very non-marriage at the time) ...
Afishwithabike Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Within a week of talking to him, I knew there was something different about the way we interacted compared to others I had interacted with previously. It was very easy and natural. We once got in trouble with our then supervisor because our lunch break went over 45 minutes. We didn't notice the time. It was so easy to talk to him. About anything. There was a really nice flow to the conversation. I felt he "got" me in a way others didn't. He seemed more compatible with me than any other friend I had - male or female. We were only friends at this point. Friends at the same part-time job on campus. After about two months of talking and laughing, I knew that we could be so much more. In fact, I came across an old diary I kept in college. I wrote down I knew I would marry him some day. I hadn't written that about any other guy, friend or boyfriend. We got married a few years later when both of us had our degrees. I don't believe in soul mates though. Edited August 29, 2011 by Afishwithabike
Chitowngirl Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 I am just curious.... People talk about "knowing". About having that gut feeling. It has never happened to me. Yes. You just know. It's amazing.
Kamille Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 For the people who are saying the 'knowing' took a little time, aren't you still admitting that, at some point, you 'just knew'? Isn't there some level of instinct here that tells you this person and this relationship is completely different from all others? I've been thinking about this question since I saw it yesterday, in between running to different meetings (thanks LS for the coffee break!). I guess it raises the question: What is it that we know? Do I know that bf and I are going to be together forever? No. Like you say, there is no such thing as an end point and even the best relationships require that both partners continually invest in making the relationship a good one. What I feel I do know is this: he's currently the best match for me. Like others have said, I trust him in ways I have never done in other relationships. And it's not about loyalty. I trust that he has my best interest at heart. I feel like I can tell him anything, I feel like we truly listen to each other. I feel like what we've built in the last 2 years is irreplaceable. In the past, my relationships always had power-issues in them, where I would question the decisions my partners would make, resent them when they brought up issues, feel like they never saw my point of view or like I had to almost throw tantrums to be heard. They in turn, would resent that I didn't trust them. And in truth, I didn't. I always felt like I had to speak up for myself, be on guard or else I would get swallowed whole and would become alienated by the relationship. I generally felt like the relationship was all about them and like they expected me to just act like an ornament to their glorious life. Those relationships were exhausting. This relationship has none of that, probably because I have gotten better at communicating, but also because when it comes to communication, to what matters to us in a relationship, to how we approach issues, we match. I trust him to take care of me and of us, in a way which truly takes into account who I am. That's the one major difference for me. Trust. But it happened because I was very honest about who I was when we started dating, and always brought up issues when they showed up, without much thought to controlling the outcome. I had figured out, by then, that I had mislead my past partners into thinking I was one way (easy going, pixie dreamgirl type) when really I was another (needing an equal partnership). To quote someone here, I decided to stop fearing loss, a feat which allowed me to bring up issues without drama. "I want to tell you I feel like this about this". And that was that. No need to convince him or anything, to have him resolve the problem, to feel vulnerable, etc etc. It was kind of like: "Here's my deal, and you're free to decide if you can live with it or not". And some issues took us longer to resolve than others (like his workaholism/disorganization, the way my anxieties about work would affect our relationship), but generally, he would act like he was duly informed, recognized the validity of my feelings and we would move on. (I would do the same, easily). I'm rambling on and on like this because ES pointed out she has never felt certainty, only doubts. Primarily, I want her to listen to her gut instincts. But, I also want her to know that for me, certainty came when I changed my approach to relationships. When I stopped fearing loss. When I stopped trying to control the outcomes of my actions. In short, when I accepted myself and stopped questioning whether I was "too flawed" for a lasting relationship. And it doesn't mean over-sharing, because if you don't fear loss and you accept yourself, you won't need the guy you're dating to validate your insecurities (you won't really have insecurities). What I do when I bring up issues is simply speak up for myself. He's free to react to it in his own genuine authentic way. And that freedom is precisely what allowed us to build something balanced together.
zengirl Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 I'm rambling on and on like this because ES pointed out she has never felt certainty, only doubts. Primarily, I want her to listen to her gut instincts. But, I also want her to know that for me, certainty came when I changed my approach to relationships. When I stopped fearing loss. When I stopped trying to control the outcomes of my actions. In short, when I accepted myself and stopped questioning whether I was "too flawed" for a lasting relationship. And it doesn't mean over-sharing, because if you don't fear loss and you accept yourself, you won't need the guy you're dating to validate your insecurities (you won't really have insecurities). What I do when I bring up issues is simply speak up for myself. He's free to react to it in his own genuine authentic way. And that freedom is precisely what allowed us to build something balanced together. My experience with changing from failure to success was similar, FTR. (Not the initial success of my HS sweetheart, because honestly, a good HS relationship is nothing but luck. I was lucky there, for a time. I learned later.)
thatone Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) I'm rambling on and on like this because ES pointed out she has never felt certainty, only doubts. Primarily, I want her to listen to her gut instincts. But, I also want her to know that for me, certainty came when I changed my approach to relationships. When I stopped fearing loss. When I stopped trying to control the outcomes of my actions. In short, when I accepted myself and stopped questioning whether I was "too flawed" for a lasting relationship. And it doesn't mean over-sharing, because if you don't fear loss and you accept yourself, you won't need the guy you're dating to validate your insecurities (you won't really have insecurities). What I do when I bring up issues is simply speak up for myself. He's free to react to it in his own genuine authentic way. And that freedom is precisely what allowed us to build something balanced together. but what if her gut instincts are usually wrong. that's what we can all gather from ES's posts. i think everything you said is true and i agree with all of it. but when all of someone's actions and instincts are controlled by their insecurity, then they have nowhere to start, no basis to judge from, no rational course of action to apply to any given situation. the phrase i get back to when thinking/talking about such things is "who you are". best first date behavior is not who i am most of the time. sitting on the couch scratching my balls in my boxers while watching football is not who i am either. but then again, i'm both of those things sometimes. the truth is somewhere in the middle. if i meet a woman who is honest, trustworthy, sincere, and intelligent i'm going to try to be the same. if i meet a woman who lies and plays control games i'm going to be a straight up jackass to her, and try to out-manipulate her for sport. again, the truth is somewhere in the middle. but ES can't be any of those, from a female perspective. she can only be insecure, because it's all about her insecurity. her insecurity trumps every other action, emotion, and thought. you wouldn't tell an axe murder to follow his gut instinct, because his gut instinct is to kill you and chop you up into little bits. along the same lines, we can't tell ES to follow her gut instinct, because her gut instinct is to create a fantasy that appeases her insecurity first and foremost, the man involved is just an object that triggers all of those things for her, he doesn't matter. that's her gut instinct. i think your thoughts assume that people you choose for relationships are basically good and honest and rational people. i don't disagree with that, i give everyone the benefit of the doubt. but what if the person is basically insane, not good and honest and rational? in that case their gut instinct is worthless and creates nothing but failure. Edited August 30, 2011 by thatone
April72 Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Any time I thought I "knew" and was taken by a guy and thought he is the "ONE"!!!! It turned out to be lust and once the new wore off and the butterflies left there was nothing there. My current SO we started out as just friends when we shifted from friends to dating I wasn't sure if I was making the right decision or not and was afraid of losing a really good friend. Butterflies actuallty didn't come until later much later. It was almost to easy with this guy. But NO I didn't just know. Edited August 30, 2011 by April72
zengirl Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 but what if her gut instincts are usually wrong. that's what we can all gather from ES's posts. I think Kamille's point is that for your gut instincts to be right, you must first be positively aligned and acting from a healthy place. So, it's a 2 step process.
Kamille Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 I think Kamille's point is that for your gut instincts to be right, you must first be positively aligned and acting from a healthy place. So, it's a 2 step process. Pretty much - but at the same time not quite: finding a relationship, to me, means/meant putting my well-being first. It meant I did break up with guys I was absolutely in lust with for the simple reason that their behavior made me feel vulnerable/made me question my sense of self. I did pass up on some pretty good guys in the process, but am I ever glad I ended up where I am. ES, I'm under the impression that you often feel so disoriented when it comes to dating, that you don't even think of taking into consideration your own sense and your well-being. You're afraid of "passing up" on a good guy because of your insecurities. I understand thatone's point. The way I see it, ES, you use skepticism to protect yourself while dating. You'll analyze your dates' behavior for signs of low interest. It's your way of managing how vulnerable the whole thing makes you feel. So, the question is: how much of your doubts is bad skepticism and how much of it is good gut instincts? Only by listening to your instincts, good and bad, and accepting you'll make mistake along the way, will you eventually learn to distinguish between bad skepticism and good gut instincts. So yes, I think, for you, I would recommend listening to your gut instincts, no matter what it tells you (and no matter how much we LSers might disagree). You need to find a way to trust your own judgement. At the same time, you strike me as someone who's particularly attached to finding a relationship, more than I have ever been. Again, this can thwart your instincts, but this time in the other direction. You'll overlook simple things such as incompatible conflict-resolution, incompatible communication styles (and I'm not talking about when he texts, but about the content/honesty of your communication), and more importantly, the level of comfort you feel revealing yourself to your dates. You'll disregard what may seem to you like "minor" incompatibilities the minute someone shows high interest. As such, you might be more vulnerable to grand gestures than the majority of us. Flip the script, appreciate grand gestures, but don't over-value them. Pay attention to your comfort levels, to how honest you feel you can be. If you feel you can't be honest, ditch the guy. So to me it's a chicken or the egg question in this case. In order to feel secure, ES needs to learn to trust her judgement. In order to trust her judgement, she needs to ditch the insecurity and the cognitive dissonance it creates.
zengirl Posted August 30, 2011 Posted August 30, 2011 Pretty much - but at the same time not quite: finding a relationship, to me, means/meant putting my well-being first. Right. That's one very important component of being a healthy human being. And understanding that "well being" does not equal immediate gratification so much as practicing what I'd call "enlightened selfishness" (selfish is the wrong word, but that's why we add enlightened ), which is simply doing what is best for your own personal well-being, as you say, both now AND in the long-term. That's a practice that is important to learn, I think, if it doesn't come naturally (some do it innately, lucky folks that they are). The other side of that coin is, to be healthy, you must also have compassion and empathy for others (not so much that it overrides putting your well-being first, but enough that you see that treating others with respect and such is generally in your best interest). This, knowing what I know of you, Kamille, would be something I imagine you knew innately. Again, some people do, and some people have to learn it. I'd say those two lessons are the core of what makes a human being healthy in their interpersonal life --- having both empathy for others and yet being able to put their own best interest first (but not in a cutthroat bull**** way where you treat others like garbage, right?). But that's just my view. So yes, I think, for you, I would recommend listening to your gut instincts, no matter what it tells you (and no matter how much we LSers might disagree). You need to find a way to trust your own judgement. Like thatone, I don't currently think ES has had good instincts in the past (or else she'd have better results), but I agree with you very much that she --- and EVERYONE --- has the potential for good instincts and must learn to trust his/her own judgment to be happy and healthy. But it's hard to trust your gut if you have a lot of inner-dissonance. Whatever the reason (skepticism or whatnot), ES seems to suffer from what I would consider extreme inner dissonance while in her relationships. (We all feel inner dissonance sometimes, so I'm not pretending we can ever do away with it! Believe me, I've tried. ) However, what you refer to -- understanding your true self-interest and acting in it, in presumably healthy ways that make your life better, is going to lead to reduced dissonance and better choices, I think. Simply picking one choice out of the maddening din of various instincts isn't going to lead to good choices. And if your "gut" is just the part of you that's right after the fact, it's pretty useless. So to me it's a chicken or the egg question in this case. In order to feel secure, ES needs to learn to trust her judgement. In order to trust her judgement, she needs to ditch the insecurity and the cognitive dissonance it creates. Interesting. And I quite agree, though I don't see it as chicken-and-egg, in that I feel quite certain which must come first: first you work on the dissonance. If you keep making judgments WITH dissonance, it never works out. And it's easier IMO to stop making judgments for a time so you can resolve the dissonance. This isn't purely related to ES, but dissonance as I see it, as a whole. Which is the major issue that thwarts many people, not simply our OP here. I have an ongoing battle with dissonance sometimes myself, even though I know well how to resolve it these days. Dissonance sucks, but if anyone has a permanent cure that doesn't completely screw up my life, I'm in.
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