Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 It's a curious thing... the fear of rejection. While rejection is always a possibility... whatever happened to seeing things in the light of: "Unless you try, you will NEVER succeed". If you are fine with not succeeding anyway, you may as well just go for it. It isn't going to kill you. At some point, when you are successful, it will help your confidence. Maybe what you need to do is stop being ego-centered about potential rejection, too. IF a girl rejects you, don't jump to the conclusion that it has something to do with you. I have rejected many men, not because they weren't attractive, but for entirely different reasons like: a) I'm not available because I'm seeing someone else b) The timing is completely off, I have other priorities c) I'm emotionally unstable right now and it wouldn't be wise, lol. I know exactly what you're saying, and it's so much easier said than done. I know I've counseled many an LS member on just manning up and approaching a woman without fear of what she'll say or do in response. And even if she does say no, it should have absolutely no effect on how you feel about yourself, because you know that you're the f'in sh*t. And although I'm sure there's a degree of "fear" that I feel when placed in a position to approach a girl, I also feel an overwhelming sense of "f*ck you for not accepting me" (whether she actually would or not)...and I know that's absolutely awful...just reading that to myself makes me feel like a douche...
zengirl Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I know you're really into psychology and all that...do you know of any references or books on this topic? I checked on Google, and there aren't any books on how to get over being Asian...go figure... I'm really NOT into psychology. I'm really into Taoism and Zen and the like, and I'm also pretty into how people's beliefs shape the world (a lot of Kabbalah influence there--- I guess something akin to "The Secret" but I think The Secret is oversimplified bull****). While it has nothing to do with being Asian, the Tao of Dating for Men touches on the power of beliefs in terms of dating (also touches on other things; this is not the focus of the book, but he mentions it in the Women and Men books). I think he's kind of an *******, but Steve Pavlina writes some articles on the subject on his blog that I find ring true. I love the stuff in blogs like Hardcore Zen. The Tao of Pooh is actually a book that, ironically, helped me with dating a lot, as did the Tao Te Ching. It's geared towards women (but supposedly meant for all audiences), IMO, but Meeting Your Half-Orange uses a system that employs "dating optimism" that I find touches upon how your belief system interacts with your dating life. Though it's very memoir-ish and from a woman's perspective, and very much about finding a final partner, not having lots of options. I do like the new rash of "happiness psychology" and read a lot of those books, but I don't know any that are direct correlations, though they all have similar ideas. A lot are memoirs, though. I really liked "My Year With Eleanor" and see how her beliefs changing changed her life, but I wouldn't recommend someone read it "for advice" for instance. Those books just reinforce what I already know. There are loads of things out there on how changing your beliefs changes your life. Tony Robbins is another example, and while he isn't my favorite, and I find flaws and gaps in his weirdo overpriced guru system, he isn't altogether wrong on that part IMO. Most of the examples I could think of are flawed. Everything is flawed. A lot of these things will say the same thing about beliefs: "They cost nothing, and you wouldn't believe how many people pick limiting beliefs anyway when they could have fantastic beliefs that work for them for the same price." It's very, very true. The way I try to pick good beliefs is through Zen and such, but it's not the only path. There are loads of paths. The first step is to believe it's possible. And that's on you.
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 I'm really NOT into psychology. Ah, ok. My mistake. But thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look at some of them.
OnyxSnowfall Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) I know exactly what you're saying, and it's so much easier said than done. I know I've counseled many an LS member on just manning up and approaching a woman without fear of what she'll say or do in response. And even if she does say no, it should have absolutely no effect on how you feel about yourself, because you know that you're the f'in sh*t. And although I'm sure there's a degree of "fear" that I feel when placed in a position to approach a girl, I also feel an overwhelming sense of "f*ck you for not accepting me" (whether she actually would or not)...and I know that's absolutely awful...just reading that to myself makes me feel like a douche... Aww. Well, it sounds like you're very conflicted. I think you should continue to examine yourself and your beliefs though. If you believe that beliefs are arduous to change, perhaps you should examine that one first... find a different belief you have and test it out. Throw it out into the "sea of possibilities and see if it comes back or not" (as someone once told me to do)... move onto another one, whether or not the former one returns. Make an outline of some if you have to. It may be a slow process to rid yourself of self-deprecating beliefs... but it's not impossible... you may need someone's support and trust and insights even... sometimes people are so hurt that they do need others to guide them into self-acceptance. (I don't know if you've attempted therapy or not, but it may be a place to start if you haven't...) Edited August 29, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Aww. Well, it sounds like you're very conflicted. I think you should continue to examine yourself and your beliefs though. If you believe that beliefs are arduous to change, perhaps you should examine that one first... find a different belief you have and test it out. Throw it out into the "sea of possibilities and see if it comes back or not" (as someone once told me to do)... move onto another one, whether or not the former one returns. Make an outline of some if you have to. I have tried this belief changing system before, not necessarily knowing that it was an actual system...I was able to fake it for a little while, but eventually it all just came crashing down again...external validation only lasts for so long before you revert to what is comfortable...note that I used the word comfortable there, because in a way, it does feel comfortable to blame it all on my race... It may be a slow process to rid yourself of self-deprecating beliefs... but it's not impossible... you may need someone's support and trust and insights even... sometimes people are so hurt that they do need others to guide them into self-acceptance. (I don't know if you've attempted therapy or not, but it may be a place to start if you haven't...) Yes, I had done it in the past for a very short time...thought it helped, but I don't think it even scratched the surface...I think I just said all the right things to make it seem like I was "better"...
Tybalt Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 external validation only lasts for so long before you revert to what is comfortable...note that I used the word comfortable there, because in a way, it does feel comfortable to blame it all on my race... This seems like a very telling statement. For whatever reason, you receive more payoff, remain more "comfortable" in this belief system. If you look beyond it, why don't you have the kind of success you're looking for? Maybe that is a scarier question, and it is easier to pin it on race. I say this as a woman who almost married an Asian man and am attracted to them. And you are a good looking guy, so it doesn't make logical sense to me. But limiting beliefs rarely employ what others would term "logic." The great part of this is that you are looking at it now, and want to address it. Maybe it has become less "comfortable" to do the same things and view yourself the same way. Zengirl has some really good suggestions - she has helped me. Limiting beliefs get a lot of people in some way, shape or form. I'm working on my own. I really think it is liberating and a lot happier to give yourself permission to appreciate yourself and pursue the things you want to pursue. And I think the appreciation by others can often follow.
AHardDaysNight Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 There are some women who have an Asian fetish. This should be no issue at all.
counterman Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 A lot of my friends are Asians, and many of them have never dated before. Those who are in relationships are with Asian girls who they've been friends with for a long time. All of them don't approach girls and ask them out. I know a lot of non-Asian girls who dismiss dating Asian guys because they just never approach them. Some think that Asian guys don't like white girls, so dating Asian guys is never really a viable option because they just never approach them girls! So if you're already doing that, it's setting yourself apart. I have also heard how some Asian girls talk about Asian men... and found it disturbing how some can pay out their own race like that. So I hope you don't go down that track. What I'm saying is, you don't have to be bogged down by stereotypes or anything like that. I'm not really experienced with all of this but I would say a self-correcting attitude would benefit, even a little. Of course you cannot get rid of this insecurity over night but I think really embracing your culture would help. If you know any cool Asian guys, try hanging out with them. There's this guy called the Asian Playboy, and he's 5'6 - pretty sure he does well with women. By the way, if I had your rocking bod, you have no idea how successful I would be
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 This seems like a very telling statement. For whatever reason, you receive more payoff, remain more "comfortable" in this belief system. If you look beyond it, why don't you have the kind of success you're looking for? Maybe that is a scarier question, and it is easier to pin it on race. I honestly have no idea, because looking beyond race, it doesn't make any sense looking at it objectively. I genuinely feel that I'm a pretty good catch and those around me say the same thing, so I've spent the better part of my life using my race as the explanation for why I haven't been "caught"... I say this as a woman who almost married an Asian man and am attracted to them. And you are a good looking guy, so it doesn't make logical sense to me. But limiting beliefs rarely employ what others would term "logic." And I really wish I could rationalize it for everyone here, but I can't...I don't really understand it beyond knowing that it's been something I haven't been able to permanently kick. I might go through short stages where I feel a little better about things, but this issue always inevitably comes back. The great part of this is that you are looking at it now, and want to address it. Maybe it has become less "comfortable" to do the same things and view yourself the same way. Zengirl has some really good suggestions - she has helped me. Limiting beliefs get a lot of people in some way, shape or form. I'm working on my own. I really think it is liberating and a lot happier to give yourself permission to appreciate yourself and pursue the things you want to pursue. And I think the appreciation by others can often follow. I've come across the term limiting beliefs before in some self help book I read...might have to look for that one again...
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 A lot of my friends are Asians, and many of them have never dated before. Those who are in relationships are with Asian girls who they've been friends with for a long time. All of them don't approach girls and ask them out. I know a lot of non-Asian girls who dismiss dating Asian guys because they just never approach them. Some think that Asian guys don't like white girls, so dating Asian guys is never really a viable option because they just never approach them girls! So if you're already doing that, it's setting yourself apart. It's not that I don't approach women or avoid talking to them. It's just that I hardly ever make a move or try to get a number unless they make it absolutely blatantly obvious they're interested...otherwise I'll talk and flirt and be fun but just appear disinterested in anything more than friendship...maybe it's a defense mechanism of mine...I don't really know... I have also heard how some Asian girls talk about Asian men... and found it disturbing how some can pay out their own race like that. So I hope you don't go down that track. I wouldn't speak ill of Asian women like you say they do to men. I accept that they have their preferences and let them do their thing while I try and do mine. What I'm saying is, you don't have to be bogged down by stereotypes or anything like that. I'm not really experienced with all of this but I would say a self-correcting attitude would benefit, even a little. Of course you cannot get rid of this insecurity over night but I think really embracing your culture would help. If you know any cool Asian guys, try hanging out with them. There's this guy called the Asian Playboy, and he's 5'6 - pretty sure he does well with women. Heh, I wouldn't even know where to begin... By the way, if I had your rocking bod, you have no idea how successful I would be Hahah thanks man. It's certainly been a while...how have your workouts been going?
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 There are some women who have an Asian fetish. This should be no issue at all. Hmmm, this is definitely news to me...
OnyxSnowfall Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, this is definitely news to me... Most of the females in my family have one... granted, I think it was bore out of their obsessions with anime (and yes, any kind of asian seems to suffice for them... their fetish is not limited to the japanese). They also believe that inter-racial babies are most beautiful. Edited August 29, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Most of the females in my family have one... granted, I think it was bore out of their obsessions with anime (and yes, any kind of asian seems to suffice for them... their fetish is not limited to the japanese). They also believe that inter-racial babies are more beautiful. Hahah fair enough. Well, most Asian-white hybrids I've seen are pretty good looking...though it's much more common to see a white father and Asian mother.
counterman Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Sorry, I was meant to say "if you're approaching girls, you're already setting yourself apart from other Asian guys". There's been two moments I can think of where I didn't make a move and got friendzoned... so you know what you have to do. It's something I'm still working a lot on, really being comfortable with myself with a girl. Not saying that all Asian guys don't approach girls, just noticing that most around my social group and on my campus, don't. I rarely see a non-Asian girl with an Asian guy but there are some. I saw this Asian guy who's in my class with this gorgeous brunette, who I was going to approach before he showed up in the nick of time. Yes! And I've noticed that non-Asian girls who like anime and mange, tend to prefer Asian guys. I've only met a few though but still! Around my campus, there's not a lot of interracial dating, which I thought there would be more of since we live in a multicultural society. I have met girls who don't care what race the guys is and I have met others who prefer to date within their own race. Work outs have been non-existent Trying to get back into it though. Don't think I can quite get to your build, so I'm aiming for something like David Beckham's
thatone Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 i personally know two asian guys here who have trouble keeping women away that they don't want, they get approached (one vietnamese one korean). admittedly they have looks going for them, the vietnamese guy is abnormally tall for being vietnamese and has a sort of pretty boy face going for him and the korean guy is a body builder type, he reminds me of bolo with a better face. the korean guy even jokes about stereotypes and racial insults, he picked up on a girl at a party at my house a few weeks back and she was gonna insult him by asking him whether his parents owned a dry cleaners or a convenience store and he replied "both!" with a laugh. he was an instant hit for that. maybe move? you got a vt avatar and a dc location, not sure which you're working with but virginia is republican/racist (the two pretty much go hand in hand in the south) and dc is an even split between black/white. perhaps try a more diverse city?
D-Lish Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Why does being "Asian" put you at a disadvantage? Do you not like dating Asian girls? Aren't Asian girls open to dating Asian men???? Most of the young girls I work with date outside their race often...
somedude81 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Has being Asian really been a dating hindrance? How many girlfriends have you had? When was your most recent relationship, how long did it last? How often do you get the impression that a girl is attracted to you?
OliveOyl Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 I think I might have mentioned in an old thread about my dear friend? An attractive Caucasian woman who married an Asian man, who grew up in Japan. They're still together after 20 years married. I grew up around so many Asians that I really am boggled when I see the idea here on LS that "women don't like Asian men." It simply wasn't true where I grew up (West Coast, USA).
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Why does being "Asian" put you at a disadvantage? Do you not like dating Asian girls? Aren't Asian girls open to dating Asian men???? Most of the young girls I work with date outside their race often... I don't know, it's just something thats been ingrained in my mind since I was young...I don't even know if it IS true...but I can't imagine that it's not... In my experience, Asian women are even more opposed to dating Asian men than non-asian women are...and I just don't socialize with Asian women enough to find myself with an opportunity to date one.
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 maybe move? you got a vt avatar and a dc location, not sure which you're working with but virginia is republican/racist (the two pretty much go hand in hand in the south) and dc is an even split between black/white. perhaps try a more diverse city? I'm moving to southern California in January, but I can't imagine it being any different regardless of where I go.
Author USMCHokie Posted August 29, 2011 Author Posted August 29, 2011 Has being Asian really been a dating hindrance? How many girlfriends have you had? When was your most recent relationship, how long did it last? How often do you get the impression that a girl is attracted to you? I've had two legitimate girlfriends in my time. Last girl I dated was last spring...lasted a couple months... And I guess I get the impression that a girl is attracted to me, or at least my body, relatively frequently, especially whilst shirtless. But I feel that the attraction instantly vanishes the moment her mind processes the fact that I'm a chinaman.
somedude81 Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 California is very racially mixed. I doubt you'll have any trouble here. So your last relationship was a few months ago? I'm surprised your even complaining.
Feelsgoodman Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 We all have our insecurities when it comes to dating, whether it be our height, our weight, our education (or lack thereof), our career (or lack thereof, etc... Everyone has their own way of dealing with these insecurities, and some can control them better than others. I've noticed that I've become very angry and bitter lately, and I need to come to terms with what has been my underlying dating insecurity all my life and figure out a way to deal with it. Those who know me on LS probably know that my "crippling" (I hate to use the word, but it seems to make sense) insecurity is my race. Throughout my life, I have dealt with it by compensating in every way possible, including: working on my body and then finding every possible opportunity to take my shirt off in public, avoiding association with other Asians, self-deprecating humor, and being as white and awesome as I could possibly be. I had also completely avoided dating for the first 23 years of my life. So you hate your own race. Many white people do too. They even have a term for that - white guilt. I guess your condition can be described as "asian guilt". And quite frankly, that's pathetic. You need to embrace your 'asianness' and stop trying to be white. Why are you so desperate to date white chicks? Why not date other Asians? And don't tell me that you find white chicks more attractive. If you find women of another race more attractive than those of your own, it's just another manifestation of your self-hate. Have you ever travelled to asia, in particular the country where your parents are from? Consider doing that, if you haven't done that already. Heck...go live there for a bit, you might like it better than America (which is a dying country anyway).
Feelin Frisky Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 ...I'm a chinaman. Aw, now you're being politically incorrect with yourself. I guess you're entitled however but that's not good. Hokie, in some of your rhetoric I thing you fall a little into the trap of "over-wanting"--over-wanting in the sense that you feel you somehow need the validation of a lot of women, if not a whole ethnicity to finally convince you that you're not handicapped by your ethnicity. In reality though we only get one women (if we are decent men) and finding her, as I said before will in large part her finding you. Perhaps you should identify every identity thing you avoid and bravely face it off. It will show you that there's nothing really to it. I told you this last year when I urged you to stop showing your back as your avatar and turn around for better or worse and show yourself. I don't know if you have tats on the front too--for your sake I hope not as they are an instant deal-breaker for many classy women and a magnet for superficial ones. Try to face yourself and battle through--there is nobody keeping you down but you. Maybe you could benefit from some tuning of your brain chemistry to help the water roll off your back a little easier. it works charms for me. Good luck.
FitChick Posted August 29, 2011 Posted August 29, 2011 Wow, you sound like a racist. What do you believe about Asians that has you hating yourself for being one? It's you who are your own worst enemy. I work with many successful Asians who are happily married to Asians and whites. Asians are the most successful and educated racial group in the US. If anything, you should be proud to be one! What do you believe about yourself, women, relationships, life? You need to eliminate those negatives beliefs. In my own experience, it's quickly done via The Lefkoe Method as I've mentioned ad infinitum on here. Try out their interactive version for free or call the office and try one phone session. http://lefkoeinstitute.com/ I know they used to give seminars all over the US but don't know if they do now. They have DVDs of interactive sessions similar to the free ones. I found it helpful to deal with a real person first, to get a sense of the process before doing it on my own. My dating life changed dramatically for the better after eliminating dozens of beliefs I'd been carrying around my whole life.
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