dreamingoftigers Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Those are great qualities, but what else do you have to offer? I'm going to change genders on this so you can see my point. I knew women who graduated high school, looked hot and maintained their hot looks, and were also genuinely honest, good and faithful to men. Unfortunately most men they encountered only saw them as "good for sex". The reason is they saw these women and how their biggest goals in life were just to marry someone successful (doesn't mean rich), have a family, and be a SAHM while he's the head of the household...traditional nuclear family in many ways. The guys looked down on it, because in the modern world now too many men (including myself) have been raised to see women like that as mooches, not "decent". I'm not saying I agree with that viewpoint, but it shows the biggest reasons why these particular women have so much trouble finding men who will commit. Yes, they are hot and possibly nice, but for the men they encounter, they see them as a mouth to feed and such, so they only choose to lay them and move on, desiring an educated woman with a career who can pull her own weight. Now then, I flip genders back...outside of "genuinely honest, good and faithful", what else do you have to offer the female population? Being "genuinely honest, good and faithful" isn't going to mean much to them if you're butt ugly, have poor hygiene, dress badly, work in a Wal-Mart as a greeter, live at home with the parents, have no social skills, and even if you're a 30 year old virgin. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the hard truth. I always saw myself as "genuinely honest, good and faithful", but I didn't catch the eyes of women until I learned to dress/look better, gained social skills, went to places where better women congregated (not the shallow princesses), took on hobbies and interests for my own pleasure...but they also made me an interesting person, etc. Think about that...because choosing to stop hitting up bars and instead going to bookstores won't help you if you have little to offer. What do you have to offer besides "genuinely honest, good and faithful"? Many people on here now wish that they'd picked genuinely honest, good and faithful after living years with the alternative because they figured that that person would have the above qualities when they exhibited everything but.
grkBoy Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Many people on here now wish that they'd picked genuinely honest, good and faithful after living years with the alternative because they figured that that person would have the above qualities when they exhibited everything but. I hear you and agree. The problem is that too many will look for "good looking, exciting, fun, etc." and then HOPE he/she will be "genuinely honest, good and faithful". Of course many of those who find out their SO isn't any of that will stay and keep forgiving when that person becomes Mr or Ms Evil. Still, I stand by my point. In the real world, dating is far beyond just being "genuinely honest, good and faithful". We can keep denying it and such, but look around and see who ends up with people and who doesn't. Like it or not, we all have to also put some stock in those things outside of "genuinely honest, good and faithful". We have to care about our physical looks, our social skills, our careers and financial stability, our lifestyles, etc. It seems pointless to be just "genuinely honest, good and faithful" if all the men and women see it but still reject you because you have nothing else they want in a mate. If Woggle and the rest really want to change things around, then they need to look at the things I mentioned, and then really look into the WHO and WHERE they try to go and meet possible mates.
USMCHokie Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Interesting... I'm the one who didn't post pictures and was open to meeting men who also didn't post pictures... so no, physical attractiveness was never my first priority. I also don't even bother with what $$ they put down. Being self-sufficient and enjoying what they do was all that mattered. Well I commend you on that. You'd be surprised at the number of men who can't handle being with a woman who has a higher education or makes more $$ than them. I've had men tell me on a first date "I'd never want to be with a woman who made more than me". It's no different from women saying that they won't date a shorter guy or a guy of a certain race(s). Attributes are attributes, whether physical or otherwise. Both genders are guilty of this. It is human nature, I guess, to gravitate to the first available 'excuse' for why they aren't successful at anything. Absolutely. We are defensive by nature and care a little too much about how people think of us. Therefore, it's never our fault, or you might think less of us. If you pay attention here, it is mostly men who complain or are disappointed in the looks of the women they meet online. Women are disappointed that the men they meet online have horrid personality traits... addictions.... etc. I'm going to make a pretty bold generalization here...but I feel that better looking people don't have to work as hard to make it when it comes to dating and relationships...it is often easier for them to rely on their looks to find and keep someone...but it also makes them lazy and complacent, since there's really no need to make themselves better individuals with good personalities and qualities...you might find they are more likely to have destructive personalities, since women will put up with it...therefore, what's the incentive to change if you've still got women going after you because you look good...? I was talking to a female friend of mine, and she completely agreed when I said that it almost feels like men have to wait for women to get over themselves before the good men have a chance to be appreciated...
betterdeal Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I don't know what life is like in Chicago, but here in Cambridge (part of the real world last time I checked) there are lots of sloven, fat, ugly, acne-riddled, disabled people in couples, grkBoy. Given that America enjoys a similar level of obesity, acne and disability as the UK, I'm going to assume most couples in America also have their fair share of every day imperfections. If that's not the case and the suburbs are not full of ordinary folk being ordinary, there must be a minority of good looking, funny, well dressed people churning out great big families of fat, ugly, acne-riddled disabled children (where else do they come from?)
dasein Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 yes, by all means... do your best to be the one creating the 'baggage'. non sequitur I thought it a pretty good list actually. One good place to find quality women is doing charity functions where you actually get your hands dirty doing something as opposed to mostly socializing or attending "events." Most women you meet doing some kind of community service work that involves some mild unpleasantness won't be American Princess material, tend to be more selfless and down to earth.
aj22one Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 If Woggle and the rest really want to change things around, then they need to look at the things I mentioned, and then really look into the WHO and WHERE they try to go and meet possible mates. Woggle's married. I think he posts these types of threads to satisfy his morbid curiosity.
ja123 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I've always thought that you have to be the kind of person you want to be with... the thing is, we all make mistakes and mess up so... also, if someone is honest and faithful, they may project others as being that way "until" they find out that isn't the case and, if they become jaded over it... rather than figuring out a system which can FILTER people who do not share their values and aspirations then... they're probably just screwed, lol. They STOP being the kind of person they'd be with and carry all this cynicism etc... whether it's a male or female. I guess, to find an "equivalent", they need to invest time and effort into getting to genuinely know someone before getting too deep in with them. Otherwise, I'm interested in answers myself =p Well said. That's very much what I've done. Now I'm dealing with trying not to be cynical. Cynicism isn't good as it hardens the heart.
dasein Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 You'd be surprised at the number of men who can't handle being with a woman who has a higher education or makes more $$ than them. I've had men tell me on a first date "I'd never want to be with a woman who made more than me". I know thousands of men. None of them, not a single one that I can tell, have this oft repeated hangup. Certainly none of my closer circle do. It's simply a copout for women who weed out otherwise fine guys based on their job, income or education. Women are the ones who refuse to date lesser achieving men, I know hundreds who will flat out state it, it's pervasive. Most men don't care about a woman's income one iota one way or the other. But as usual, the blame game is to shift every female quirk somehow back into a male fault. I get that. Mostly I think the above copout comes from cougars today who get irritated when the young stud muffin flies the coop, and look for any way to shift all the blame for that onto his character flaws as opposed to her unrealistic expectation of keeping a 22 y.o. hot starving actor under her thumb for the duration while she is over 40. I see the "men are so insecure when dealing with 'independent' women" line coming out most from that kind of demographic today as I have some female acquaintances who are always making excuses about why the young stud got away.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I have had it directed at me. It is even mentioned in one of my wonderful books as being a factor in marital issues for some men who feel ashamed of it. The culture has shifted massively from men supporting their wives fully (1950s) to wives becoming potential breadwinners for the whole family. Such a role shift over the course of 50 years? Of course there are going to be men with this issue. If would actually be shocking if there weren't. A woman's personal experience with a man doesn't reflect some greater "female conspiratorial agenda."
Author Woggle Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 Both genders have an issue with changing gender roles. It is not all one sided.
stillafool Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I didn't want to keep hijacking the other thread so I started a new one. For men who are genuinely honest, good and faithful what is the best way to find a good woman who genuinely appreciates men like this? I think these guys would be known as "nice guys" and therefore should only date "nice girls". The problems happen when nice guys and nice girls want to date and become involved with bad boys and bad girls.
stillafool Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 =Feelsgoodman;3593450-Date women that are as young as you an pull. The younger the woman, the less relationship baggage she will typically have. The problem with the above is sooner or later the young woman (with no experience) is going to want to see if the grass is greener on the other side. It is best to get someone closer to your own age who has the same ideas about life and relationships as you.
stillafool Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 If you pay attention here, it is mostly men who complain or are disappointed in the looks of the women they meet online. This is the number one reason nice guys can't get nice girls. They want "looks" first and everything else comes second.
grkBoy Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I don't know what life is like in Chicago, but here in Cambridge (part of the real world last time I checked) there are lots of sloven, fat, ugly, acne-riddled, disabled people in couples, grkBoy. Given that America enjoys a similar level of obesity, acne and disability as the UK, I'm going to assume most couples in America also have their fair share of every day imperfections. If that's not the case and the suburbs are not full of ordinary folk being ordinary, there must be a minority of good looking, funny, well dressed people churning out great big families of fat, ugly, acne-riddled disabled children (where else do they come from?) I'm not saying dating is only limited to "hot" people. My point is still that being "genuinely honest, good and faithful" alone isn't enough...no more than just being nice to women is enough. People don't have to be super-hot high earners who follow fashion...but the key thing is for everyone claiming to be "genuinely honest, good and faithful" and yet complaining they can't get a date, they need to really explore the "what else do people want?" In Chicago I see more fat/ugly people finding love than the hot ones. Most of the reason is the hot ones are holding out for impossible standards. Think about when you have a job opening and 1000 people show up all claiming to be "hard working, responsible, and ambitious". How else will companies then whittle that 1000 down to 1? They will look at what else those people have, and the ones who ONLY have "hard working, responsible, and ambitious" going for themselves will get eliminated first.
stillafool Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The guys looked down on it, because in the modern world now too many men (including myself) have been raised to see women like that as mooches, not "decent". I'm not saying I agree with that viewpoint, but it shows the biggest reasons why these particular women have so much trouble finding men who will commit. Yes, they are hot and possibly nice, but for the men they encounter, they see them as a mouth to feed and such, so they only choose to lay them and move on, desiring an educated woman with a career who can pull her own weight. Women are the ones who refuse to date lesser achieving men, I know hundreds who will flat out state it, it's pervasive. Most men don't care about a woman's income one iota one way or the other. But as usual, the blame game is to shift every female quirk somehow back into a male fault. I get that. As you can see from the above poster men most definitely care about a woman's income and education. Mostly I think the above copout comes from cougars today who get irritated when the young stud muffin flies the coop, and look for any way to shift all the blame for that onto his character flaws as opposed to her unrealistic expectation of keeping a 22 y.o. hot starving actor under her thumb for the duration while she is over 40. I see the "men are so insecure when dealing with 'independent' women" line coming out most from that kind of demographic today as I have some female acquaintances who are always making excuses about why the young stud got away. What about 40 year old men who have for decades had unrealistic expectations about keeping a 22 year old woman under their thumbs? Both genders have an issue with changing gender roles. It is not all one sided. This the truth!
Author Woggle Posted August 28, 2011 Author Posted August 28, 2011 The only reason most men care about a woman's income is so they won't have to support her. They only care that she has her own so she won't take his.
aj22one Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The only reason most men care about a woman's income is so they won't have to support her. They only care that she has her own so she won't take his. I've never cared about "income" per se, more like job/career. I like women with drive, ambition, independence and smarts. And women with those qualities don't want a man to "take care of them", that kind of woman will seek an equal. A woman who lives at home and works as a part time waitress is not likely to have those qualities. I'm open to being surprised though.
carhill Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 A good woman with drive, ambition, independence and smarts can manifest them in many ways, a dollar value being but one of them. As an example, I recall visiting a place touched by one such woman when visiting Tanzania back in the early 90's. It was a place I selected specifically because I was fascinated with such attributes and single-mindedness in a woman. How can a good man find a good woman? Get out in the world. Know no borders. Be open to all potentials.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 non sequitur I thought it a pretty good list actually. One good place to find quality women is doing charity functions where you actually get your hands dirty doing something as opposed to mostly socializing or attending "events." Most women you meet doing some kind of community service work that involves some mild unpleasantness won't be American Princess material, tend to be more selfless and down to earth. I thought his list showed how selfish and immature he is. People who use the term 'baggage' to describe other people seem to be the ones with the most baggage themselves or creating it, IMHO. Many of the things on his list were things out of a person's control. One can't choose their parents. With 50% of all marriages ending in divorce, well, he's going to have a tough time avoiding that too. I'm more interested in understanding how a person has faced life's various challenges... Everyone has them. No one's life is perfect. and frankly dating as 'young as you can go' is only appealing to men who are 'hoovers' and users... and have nothing to offer. Just take from someone too inexperienced to know they are being taken advantage of... All that said. I think any activity that involves volunteer effort is a good one. Having been a person who spends anywhere from 5-20 hrs a month volunteering for something... for the past 10 years or so... I'm definately qualified to say that more men need to do this. It is disproportionately populated by women. Of course, it has to be something you are genuinely passionate about. Women can detect poseurs.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 I'm the same way. If a guy has some decent qualities, is self-sufficient and happy, I don't care if he works at 7-11. He's worth more then Mr. Hot Shot Anger Problem or Mr. Money Bags Cheater. you betcha!
carhill Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Props on the volunteering angle. Community service is a gift which keeps giving, and also an excellent potential to find a like-minded mate.
PJKino Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Its hillarious seeing women in this thread complain about online dating Women seem to have too much power in online dating becasue theryes so many more guys then girls and you have mostly average or unattractive women trying to go above their league and go for the hottest guys and they wonder why it doesnt work for them the whole online thing
Pyro Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 The best way for a good man to find a good woman is to be patient. Anytime you meet a new girl take it slow. That is the problem in todays world. Everyone just loves to rush things and before you know it you are in a relationship with someone whom you barely know and months down the road discover that you two are not compatible. Those men need to stop thinking with their cocks and use their mind and not rush into a relationship. I know it may be difficult for some but communication is key in determining if the person will be compatible with you or not.
ThsAmericanLife Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Its hillarious seeing women in this thread complain about online dating Women seem to have too much power in online dating becasue theryes so many more guys then girls and you have mostly average or unattractive women trying to go above their league and go for the hottest guys and they wonder why it doesnt work for them the whole online thing Try a dictionary. Basic spelling skills are pretty high on most women's list of attractive qualities...
Pyro Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 LOL seems like you rushed it quite quick yourself, jacko hey *******, her and I have known each other since 2006. I hope Tony logs on soon.
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