no I love you yet...

[oldschool1]

Hiya online friends and foes. Maybe you all could give me advice about this one. I have been dating a man I met online for about 16 months. It has been a traditional courtship, and he wanted to go exclusive after one month. We started going out once a week (long, fun dates) and then slowly bumped it up to two and three nights a week and lots of fantastic vacations. Basically, we get along perfectly, never fight, like to go out and do things together, and have great sex. We're both divorced and in our 30s. I would say that he took 5 or so months to refer to me as his girlfriend, but he now introduces me proudly. Basically, we have been on the slow track but keep making progress in terms of time spent, integration, sharing feelings, etc...

 

While he's incredibly nice, he's not the biggest communicator in the world. He knows this about himself, and he's also noticed that I am not great about talking about my feelings either (though I talk nonstop otherwise!!). In fact, that was his only criticism of our relationship---that neither of us is a big "relationship talker". Since he had an ugly divorce and a not-so-pleasant upbringing (super difficult and cold mother), he doesn't open up easily. Yes, he cried while he was on painkillers in the hospital and his pet died, but he tends to be pretty unemotional. I don't show much emotion either.

 

He has made it clear that he's dating to find a "longterm partner", and I am too. He seems to be taking our relationship seriously, and when he got an out-of-town job offer yesterday, he said that he didn't want to move and that he likes our city and being close to me. Four or five months ago (when he had just gotten out of the hospital), he wrote that he thinks we "have something" and that he was trying to figure out whether there was more and whether we might be compatible for more than dating. BUT, he has not said that he loves me!!! I haven't said anything either. Both of us will sign "Love" on cards, and I did say that I was "crazy about him" via text (he reciprocated). He is fairly affectionate (more sexual than cuddly though), but he's also terse and somewhat restrained. I should also mention that he seems a little preoccupied with himself (like every other guy!!). He listens to everything I say and seems interested in what I do, but he doesn't always remember to ask me about things...

 

So am I being a fool here? Some people say that a man in love will always tell the woman, but this is an uber-controlled, previously scarred human being. My greatest fear is that we will get married despite his NOT being in love with me. Incidentally, I think that I am in love with him...but I am afraid to say it first! There is no way that I would ever marry someone who hadn't declared his love for me. Should I just tell him?

 

Thank you in advance for the advice!!

[SelfControl]

Go by his actions and how he treats you. They will tell you all you need to know about how he feels about you.

[Janesays]

I was in a similar position. My advice is just to ask him.

[FinOuch]

Sounds like you're investing in risky stock, in my opinion. I've (just recently) been in a similar situation. He was also supposedly looking for a long-term thing, talked about wanting kids, everything was great with him. I thought he was truly into me and the relationship me based on his actions, and knew (and made it known) that I loved him after 9 months. After a year and some odd months of being together....he dumped me two weeks after meeting a perfect stranger, and immediately jumped "in a relationship" with her.

We were also both in our 30s.

 

It was (and still is) devastating, as I was starting to believe (again, based on his actions alone) that this was possibly...maybe even probably...the end game relationship.

 

 

So no. Just like words; actions alone are not enough. He needs to show it AND say it.

The reality is it doesn't matter what his history is. If he doesn't drop his baggage at the door and isn't emotionally available, regardless of what he is hoping for...he's simply not long-term material.

 

And the hard lesson I learned is that patience is not the answer. I tip-toed around the subject because I was afraid of pushing him away during those 6 to 8 months of uncertainty where I knew how I felt but was waiting on him. I would have actually saved myself a lot of heartache had I been more direct and not tried so hard to NOT be pushy.

 

I say talk to him about it because 16 months is PLENTY of time to figure out if you have feelings for someone. It's just an "I love you", not a "will you spend the rest of your life with me". AND, one thing I don't think a lot of guys who refrain from saying those scary words get is that...it's not the WORDS that raise the commitment levels. It's the amount of time you spend investing in the relationship!

 

So rock the boat honey, and hope it doesn't capsize. If it does. Well then that boat sucked, and you're free to find a better one.

[SelfControl]

FinOuch...I respect that we have two different opions here. And, I am curious to hear more about yours.

 

How do you think you pushing your boyfriend to tell you how he feels about you would have changed what happened in the end?

 

Also, you say that "He needs to show it AND say it" and then you say that "it's not the WORDS that raise the commitment levels. It's the amount of time you spend investing in the relationship!" These two statements seem to contradict each other. Doesn't 'investing in the relationship' involve actions, not words? Please clarify.

[FinOuch]

FinOuch...I respect that we have two different opions here. And, I am curious to hear more about yours.

 

How do you think you pushing your boyfriend to tell you how he feels about you would have changed what happened in the end?

 

The end result wouldn't have been different. The relationship would have still ended because he was emotionally unavailable and apparently not genuinely invested in the relationship. (despite acting otherwise)

The point, though, is that had I heeded the red flag and addressed the lack of "I love you's"...the relationship would have ended quicker. The same result would be reached without 6+ months worth of unnecessary emotional investment and pain.

 

 

Also, you say that "He needs to show it AND say it" and then you say that "it's not the WORDS that raise the commitment levels. It's the amount of time you spend investing in the relationship!" These two statements seem to contradict each other. Doesn't 'investing in the relationship' involve actions, not words? Please clarify.

 

It's not a contradiction at all...they both run on parallel tracks. Both the words "I love you" and the actions that are indicative of love portray a message that someone is genuinely invested in the relationship.

Leaving my situation out of this...I know of another recent case where this exact thing happened between two of my best friends, and he dumped her about a month ago. His take was that he didn't want to say "I love you" because he felt as though he would be cornering himself and making a promise he may not keep. But what he failed to realize was that he still fostered a feeling of permanence by continuing to court the woman, treat her well, shower her with gifts...compliments...affection...etc. H*ll, he had me fooled! He later admitted to having basically "faked it" for a good amount of time after he had started to have serious doubts about her being in his future. (which is, by no means, uncommon. Go read some of the other threads here on LS where dumpees feel blindsided because the dumper didn't act like s/he was unhappy)

Naturally this woman felt completely fooled when he finally broke it off because he didn't act in ways that suggested that he wasn't in it for the long haul. He treated her well. She took that as an indication that things were moving along just fine. They weren't.

 

Do you see how actions and words both accomplish the same end result? Both foster hope and higher expectations. Sticking around and playing the part of a good bf/gf in a relationship that you aren't invested in is just as damaging (if not more, since people tend to believe that actions speak louder than words) than saying those scary three little words.

 

Thus, going right back to my point. It's not JUST words that make a relationship, nor is it JUST actions that make a relationship. How many times have we witnessed people who stick around with someone who treats them like dirt because he swears up and down he loves her. How many times have we watched someone get strung along in what appears to be a good relationship because the SO treats that person well, only to be shocked when the relationship is ended out of the blue?

 

The simple fact is that someone that truly wants to be with you will be able to show it AND say it. Anything less should be a red flag that there may be some serious problems. That concern should not go unaddressed.

[SelfControl]

FinOuch...I see your points. You are saying that actions are good indicators, but hearing I love you also is what you need to really believe that he is genuinely invested in the relationship. Right?

 

If so, what do you think about a boyfriend that said it once a year?

[torn_curtain]

Actions aren't enough. This would definitely be a red flag for me, especially coupled with the fact that he had a cold mother. IMO, men with cold mothers almost never make good partners. I would ask him and then figure it out based on his response

[FinOuch]

FinOuch...I see your points. You are saying that actions are good indicators, but hearing I love you also is what you need to really believe that he is genuinely invested in the relationship. Right?

 

If so, what do you think about a boyfriend that said it once a year?

 

If it were me, I would be concerned that it is so infrequent. (last I checked, there are more than one holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, and romantic holidays in a year...which are sort of given events for those words)

And, since communication is always key, I would question him to try and understand why. The rest of the story would heavily depend on his answer.

[oldschool1]

Thanks so much for the advice, everyone. I think at this point I need to say something.

 

Great point about the cold mother! His parents are divorced, and his dad is a bit of a drunken womanizer. His mom has been very happily remarried for a long time, but she and her husband are apparently semi-reclusive. Coupled with my boyfriend's gnarly divorce, there are plenty of reasons for restraint. Additionally, I was still going through my (much friendlier) divorce when we started dating. My boyfriend checked with me to make sure I was ready to get into a "serious and exclusive relationship", and we built it slowly. At this point, my recent divorce seems like a nonissue.

 

While I am a warm and outgoing person, I am not terribly maternal or expressive myself. He has said (more than once) that he WANTS me to be expressive and to start conversations about our feelings, etc... So, perhaps he WANTS me to suck it up and tell him that I love him.

 

One thing that I have noticed is that he tells people (like his mother) about me and will display anything I give him (even my embarrassingly bad artwork) prominently and proudly. He has brought me to his office, said that he would "love" to meet my parents (and has hung out with them enthusiastically every time they have visited), says "we" a lot, and seems concerned about my health/job/dog. Considering how careful and private this man is, these are good signs. However, these things don't necessarily equal love.

FinOuch, your situation DOES sound somewhat similar (minus the kids and already having told him you loved him parts). It is atrocious to be jilted out of the blue, so I am sorry that happened to you. Still, I wonder whether my boyfriend might actually equate "I love you" with "I want to spend the rest of my life with you". I wouldn't want to pressure him by saying something, but, then again, he is not the pushover type.

 

This all seems like poetic justice, because I was married to a man who expressed his love early and copiously. He was incredibly affectionate, but I did not entirely return his affections---especially in bed. Now I find myself in a slow-moving relationship where I want to have sex all the time---perhaps more than my slightly older boyfriend!! (we have sex once to twice a day when we are together though, so I am hardly complaining)

 

Now I need to figure out how to tell him I love him. Rrrrghh. Scary stuff! I don't expect him to say it right back, but how horrible to (potentially) spend hours, days, weeks, or months without a real response. What's the statute of limitations on that kind of thing? I am not sure that I want to marry him. I do, however, find myself looking at real estate listings and fantasizing about marrying him. That must mean something, because I NEVER do that (even with the guy I actually married).

 

Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments!!

[SelfControl]

FinOuch...I can understand that once a year would be too infrequent for you knowing that you need that verbal reassurance as well as actions.

 

Now, let me clarify that in my original post I said his actions will tell OldSchool everything she needs to know about how he feels. I did not say that her bf should NEVER say I love you. I do think the he should say it. I just think that he should say it very sparingly, like once during the time they are dating, once when they get married, once when they have thier first child, etc., in order for it to have any real meaning. Today the phrase is thrown around so much that it's lost its sincerity. It has become a response rather then a genuine gesture. Someone says I love you, you say it back. Its a reaction, not a guage of their feelings. Actions are a guage of their feelings because it takes a lot more effort to show someone how you feel about them than to just say three little words.

 

Let me ask you this, would you rather have a bf that says I love you back after you say it, or would you rather have a boyfriend that calls and asks you out on a date, tells you exactly what time to be ready, gives you a good idea how to appropriately dress, picks you up on time, packs a meal for the outdoor concert (let's say its your favorite thing to do) that includes your favorite fruit and soda for a snack, keeps the conversation playful and light and makes sure your are comfortable and you laugh a lot? I bet that most women would choose the latter.

 

And another thing, some men instinctivly know that saying I love you takes away challenge, meaning that it lets the woman know where she stands. If he says it too much, she'll get too comfortable and bored. This is why I say its better if the man doesn't say it too often because the woman will be wondering about it. Take OldSchool's situation...her previous husband told her early on and often how much he loved her and they ended up in divorce. Now she is with a man that she is in love with, she's looking at real estate for them and is fantasizing about marrying him. And, he hasn't even told her he loves her yet. Now, tell me, which of the two men were/is more challenging? That's right, the new man. The reason OldSchool is so into him is because he is taking things slow, especially with the I love yous. So why pressure him to say it? Let the man say it when he is good and ready. Have some confidence in yourself, in your man and in your relationship. In the meantime, sit back, relax and enjoy his actions.

[FinOuch]

Let me ask you this, would you rather have a bf that says I love you back after you say it, or would you rather have a boyfriend that calls and asks you out on a date, tells you exactly what time to be ready, gives you a good idea how to appropriately dress, picks you up on time, packs a meal for the outdoor concert (let's say its your favorite thing to do) that includes your favorite fruit and soda for a snack, keeps the conversation playful and light and makes sure your are comfortable and you laugh a lot? I bet that most women would choose the latter.

 

How about option C...someone who does both.

I've been with both option A and option B. Option A said the right things and treated me like crap. Option B treated me exceedingly well, but inevitably checked out of the relationship.

Having been in both positions, now I know that I require both verbal and action-oriented displays of love.

 

I guess my question at this point is why should the OP, myself, or any girl be forced to pick between the two inferior options that you have given?

This is like asking whether I'd rather board a plane that was missing its left wing, or a plane that was missing its right. Why on earth would I choose either? I'll book a flight on a plane that is fully functional with both wings, thank you very much.

 

 

And I'm not trying to say that all men who don't say I love you are necessarily flakey, or not in it for the right reason, etc. Heck, I came from a very loving and supportive family that very rarely outright said "I love you" to each other as I grew up. That does not mean I had a deprived childhood; in fact my parents were great and supportive. I would even argue I had about the best parents you can find. They just weren't openly vocal about emotions.

So when I dated my first love and found out his family said I love you every time they hung up the phone or left the house it was sort of a "wow people do that?" sort of moment for me. I admired it. It struck me as slightly strange that my family didn't say it, and so I started saying it to my parents. It was awkward at first, especially for my dad because he just wasn't an open person when it came to emotions. That doesn't mean he wasn't loving. He was and still is a great father and husband.

 

I have no idea why it was weird for my Dad at first. But he loves his girls, and it didn't take him too terribly long to pick up the habit. Apparently he just needed the example...and now he's the first one to say it to me, my mom, my kid sisters.

And I think that is a positive thing. There's nothing frivolous about expressing love for people you care about. And even though I never had ANY doubts that my dad loved the bajeebers out of me (I was such a Daddy's girl)...it still feels good to hear it.

 

 

So, back to the original issue. The OP has a concern. She has a valid concern. The lack of I-love-you can be a red flag of potential problems. These concerns should not be bottled up, ignored, or rationalized away (we are so bad at doing this in relationships). The issue should be addressed.

Maybe he's just not big into saying it. Maybe he's someone who reserves it for special occasions. And maybe just knowing that answer would be enough for the OP to no longer be concerned about it. But you have to ask to get the answer.

[FinOuch]

Actions aren't enough. This would definitely be a red flag for me, especially coupled with the fact that he had a cold mother. IMO, men with cold mothers almost never make good partners. I would ask him and then figure it out based on his response

 

Interesting. My ex didn't have a cold mother, but according to him a dysfunctional one. I don't know that I trust his claims at this point, so who knows...but he most certainly did hate/resent her.

Perhaps another red flag to just keep an eye out for.

[carhill]

Sixteen months and no fights?

 

You sound like a compatible match. I've been married and, even when it was good, I can't imagine going sixteen months, ever, without a disagreement.

 

Hmm....

 

My first instinct was he's thinking the relationship but, upon further reflection, maybe that's not a bad thing in this case. Perhaps it works. The lack of ILY is part of that process. It's working. Good luck.

[oldschool1]

Ah, yes...the challenge! What's so twisted is that I KNOW my boyfriend plays slightly hard to get. But it still works!! I notice that when I use a bit of his medicine, it works on him too. However, I don't play games and don't like to keep people hanging. He doesn't either; he's just a wee bit stingy with emotions. I assume that his controlling mother and completely out of control wife have contributed to his need for control. He knows how to keep me on my toes! He runs his office this way, and sometimes I think he wants to make me work for his emotions. He and I also experienced a kind of cute nervousness/awkwardness that has taken quite awhile to dissolve. Sometimes I think he just doesn't know what to say or how to say it...and I can get nervous and flustered too. Fortunately, we are both relaxing more and more and don't get as nervous around each other now. At least, that is my perception. Since I had been with my husband for 10 years and then dated one other person who was actually an ex-boyfriend from 12 years prior, it seemed bizarre to get involved with a mere STRANGER!!

 

I wonder how much the challenge influences my interest in my boyfriend. I do want to crack this hard nut!! Will I then lose interest? I doubt it, because my issue with my husband was more sexual...we just weren't a great fit in bed. Also, my only real reservations about my boyfriend involve his lack of expression; I could probably be persuaded to get really serious if he were to declare his love.

 

If I may psychoanalyze myself, my own father is very much like my boyfriend: hard-working, super intelligent, reliable, hilariously polite, athletic, successful, caring, but not particularly expressive (my father has gotten better over the years). I am definitely attracted to more reserved types, and my husband was extremely cold to everyone but me (he comes from Scandinavia, so that's par for the course). Fortunately, my current boyfriend, an Amuuuuurican, is much nicer to people. My friends accuse me of being pretty reserved with my boyfriend too; I am so afraid of being the emotional, "crazy" woman that I go in the opposite direction. Physically, I have slowly become quite expressive. What I am realizing, though, is that physical expression (I mean more than just sex) is NOT enough. He seems to like it when I say and do sweet things, so I need to step it up (as does he).

 

A friend of mine recently dated an older man for one month who was waxing poetic, dying to see her everyday, having sex round the clock, and basically monopolizing her attention. He broke up with her suddenly, citing "lack of attraction" as the culprit. What?? At least I can say that my boyfriend is not THAT guy; he has been consistently into me. However, I am conscious of the fact that men can fake it! People try each other on to see how they fit, and they don't always extricate themselves in a painless, gentle way.

 

But, yes, my boyfriend is risky stock. It's hard not knowing where you stand. I am a pretty confident and patient person, but that doesn't mean I can live without love. Since we've been on the slow track, however, it seems more appropriate to wait a little. I see people who meet and marry after 3 months, and I think they're nuts!! We divorcees are particularly gun–shy...

 

Going to see him later today, as he has been away on business. I told him that I missed him a lot (something I don't say that much), and I'm going to lay it on thick!! Perhaps dropping hints that I love him would suffice? I HATE to be the one to say it first (I have never done that), but I guess I will if he doesn't offer it up soon.

[bitwitwmlf]

the best hotels and places i have ever been at check them our for your next trip

 

ìàåðøãå ÷ìàá àéìú äîìöåú | äîìê ùìîä àéìú äæîðåú | ìàåðøãå ÷ìàá éí äîìç îáöòéí

[SelfControl]

I guess my question at this point is why should the OP, myself, or any girl be forced to pick between the two inferior options that you have given?

This is like asking whether I'd rather board a plane that was missing its left wing, or a plane that was missing its right. Why on earth would I choose either? I'll book a flight on a plane that is fully functional with both wings, thank you very much.

 

FinOuch...You're welcome. Now, my question of 'which would you choose' was a hypothetical question to see which one was more important to you if you couldn't have both. I didn't say a woman, or a man for that matter, should be forced to choose between the two in real life. Your analogy about the plane is good, however, unless hearing I love you is a dealbreaker for you, it's not accurate that you would have to choose one wing over the other since we all now the plane wouldn't fly, meaning the relationship wouldn't work. My hypothetical question, as it relates to your analogy, would be more accurate if the plane had both wings and you had to choose between sitting in an aisle seat or a window seat. Both will get you to your destination, meaning the relationship would work, but you can't sit in both seats at once. So, in that case what would choose, A or B?

 

On the topic of forcing a person to choose, why are you forcing OldSchool's bf to choose between option A (loving her with actions only), option B (saying I love you), or Option C (both)? Where is it written that says a man, or either partner for that matter, has to declare their love for the other person verbally in order for the second partner to be satisfied? This is semi-rehtorical, becuase you've already stated that you need to hear it too, and you have your reasons.

 

Also, family love and romantic love are two entirely differnt things. Family love is loving a person or people while romantic love is 'being in love' with a person. Yes, it's great when a family says I love you every time they see each other or talk on the phone. But, it's not like a family member will ever say, "You know...I'm tired of them saying they love me all the time, and I'm not even sure they mean it any more because they say it too much." In other words, family members are expected to love you no matter what. Romantic love, on the other hand, even though it is supposed to be unconditional, does not work that way. If one partner is not happy they can simply walk away. Family members typically do not walk away when they are unhappy because they will forever be linked by blood and history. Do you agree that they are different?

 

Let's put you in OldSchool's position. Let's say you lay it on thick. Let's say you lose control and you say I love you first and your bf doesn't say it back. What would your reaction be?

Edited August 29, 2011 by SelfControl

[FinOuch]

FinOuch...You're welcome.

 

For what, exactly?

 

Now, my question of 'which would you choose' was a hypothetical question to see which one was more important to you if you couldn't have both. I didn't say a woman, or a man for that matter, should be forced to choose between the two in real life. Your analogy about the plane is good, however, unless hearing I love you is a dealbreaker for you, it's not accurate that you would have to choose one wing over the other since we all now the plane wouldn't fly, meaning the relationship wouldn't work. My hypothetical question, as it relates to your analogy, would be more accurate if the plane had both wings and you had to choose between sitting in an aisle seat or a window seat. Both will get you to your destination, meaning the relationship would work, but you can't sit in both seats at once. So, in that case what would choose, A or B?

 

I disagree that your analogy is more accurate. By stating that "you can't sit in both seats at once" you are implying that verbal expression of love is mutually exclusive to expressing love through actions. Wrong. Most healthy relationships normally involve both loving acts and loving words. Even healthy relationships in which it not said constantly, it is still said at some point and with some minimal amount of frequency.

 

And yes, my refusal to pick between option A or B in favor of option C is most definitely built on the fact that a lack of "I love you" is just as much of a dealbreaker for me as poor treatment. I require both actions and words. This is not uncommon. A failure on either of these fronts is a dealbreaker for a great number of individuals.

 

As for whether the lack of "I love you" is a dealbreaker for the OP; that is for her to figure out. However, I suggest you re-read her initial post, as she has specifically stated (and I quote) that "there is no way that [she] would ever marry someone who hadn't declared his love for [her]". This indicates two important things: First – that the OP views marriage as the end goal of a relationship. Second - that a lack of "I love you" is, in fact, a dealbreaker for the OP.

 

On the topic of forcing a person to choose, why are you forcing OldSchool's bf to choose between option A (loving her with actions only), option B (saying I love you), or Option C (both)? Where is it written that says a man, or either partner for that matter, has to declare their love for the other person verbally in order for the second partner to be satisfied? This is semi-rehtorical, becuase you've already stated that you need to hear it too, and you have your reasons.

 

I am not forcing anyone to choose anything. In fact, the only driving factor that forces the OP to make any decision is her personal desire/need that those words be spoken at some point in the relationship. And THAT is where it is written that her man has to declare his love for her verbally in order for her to be satisfied. It's written in her heart. It's written in her personality.

 

Anything short of at least and understanding of why he doesn't say it isn't going to lessen that need. And she simply can not gain that understanding by avoiding the topic with him altogether.

 

Also, family love and romantic love are two entirely different things. Family love is loving a person or people while romantic love is 'being in love' with a person. Yes, it's great when a family says I love you every time they see each other or talk on the phone. But, it's not like a family member will ever say, "You know...I'm tired of them saying they love me all the time, and I'm not even sure they mean it any more because they say it too much." In other words, family members are expected to love you no matter what. Romantic love, on the other hand, even though it is supposed to be unconditional, does not work that way. If one partner is not happy they can simply walk away. Family members typically do not walk away when they are unhappy because they will forever be linked by blood and history. Do you agree that they are different?

 

I agree that they are different in that you do not choose your family. But I do not agree that family members do not walk away when they are unhappy. There are countless cases in which parent/sibling/other family relationships can not stand each other (ie. do NOT love each other), and countless cases in which these relationships cease altogether (ie. people can and do walk away from family relationships).

 

Also, I believe that the differences that do exist between family and romantic relationships work against the argument that it is unnecessary to verbally express love in the latter. There is less of a need for spoken "I love you" amongst family for a multitude of reasons: because the history and family bonds already exist, because at some point in your history with these people the existence of love has already been stated, because you do not view these people as potential life partners (ie, someone you will eventually share every aspect of your life), etc.

It is reasonable to assume your family loves you even if they aren't voicing it. It is risky to make the same assumption about a romantic partner. In a romantic relationship there is much less of a history and certainly no family bond. Spoken "I love you" has never been exchanged. There is the hope/goal that this person is a life partner. None of the securities that exist in a family context exist in a romantic context. Thus it is even more imperative to verbally communicate your feelings to your SO than it is to family.

 

 

Let's put you in OldSchool's position. Let's say you lay it on thick. Let's say you lose control and you say I love you first and your bf doesn't say it back. What would your reaction be?

 

First, I think it's interesting that you equate simply stating "I love you" as laying it on thick and losing control. Since when is discussing one's feelings an outrageous act?

As for your question, I believe I've already answered this question once already. There is no need for circular debate. The answer is the same. My reaction would be dependent on the outcome...most specifically his reaction.

 

 

 

 

At this point, it seems like you are looking for debatable points simply for the purpose of debating. Trying to argue what should or should not be universal standards in an individualized case of personal wants/needs is ridiculous.

 

The bottom line is that the OP is perfectly validated in needing to hear "I love you" in her relationships. It is...after all...her relationship, her needs, and her preference. What purpose does a relationship serve if it isn't fulfilling for you on an emotional level? She is also perfectly validated in being concerned that a lack of spoken "I love you" could be an indication of an absence of love. This happens in relationships all the time, and one does not need to look far for examples in which someone acts right but doesn't have the right feelings/intentions.

Does that mean it is guaranteed to happen to her? No. But is she being unreasonable in recognizing that the possibility exists? No. She's being wisely cautious.

 

As to the issue of whether she should sit back and let it ride, or address the situation...she's in a rock and a hard place. Neither option is void of risks and rewards. Is it possible that things work out fine if she just ignores the problem? Maybe. Just as it is also possible that in avoiding the topic she sets herself up to be a doormat and increases the amount of suffering she endures when the relationship falls apart.

Is it possible that addressing her problem with the SO will have a positive and forward moving effect on their relationship? Of course it is. Is it also possible that she is involved with someone who views communicating about emotions as "losing control" and "laying it on thick", which results in a prompt kick to the curb? Sure...I guess.

But in that case, I'm not convinced he'd be worth keeping around long-term anyways.

 

 

And with that...I've said all that need be said on this subject. We can agree to disagree, but there's no sense in beating a dead horse.

Edited August 29, 2011 by FinOuch

[ronald2011]

I was in a similar position. My advice is just to ask him.

 

I second to this. Just make it simple. Just go ahead and ask him.

[oldschool1]

Months later, we are still together. We've had a few little spats along the way, but things have basically gone very well. We see each other more than we used to and generally communicate a bit more (but not a ton).

 

Last week I had a fairly serious injury, and I felt like he wasn't entirely there for me. Not a huge deal, but I lost it (even though I'm normally quite patient) and started saying that I needed more, needed to know how he felt, blabla. He was insulted by my outburst, and we got into a substantial fight. After a few days of cooling down, we arranged to talk. Rather than go off, I just calmly told him that I loved him (for the first time). He seemed shocked by this (especially because he expected me to say something more negative). He basically told me that he definitely has feelings for me, he enjoys spending time with me, he is enthusiastic about the relationship, etc...but is not ready to say he loves me (which he seems to link to marriage). He said that he wouldn't be spending all of this time with me if he didn't have such feelings. Additionally, he said that he is not an "I love you" kind of guy and that he doesn't seem to be wired that way. Sometimes he feels very close to me (like when we're spending a lot of time together on vacation) and that sometimes he doesn't feel as close (like when he is stressed from work mid-week). He wasn't entirely sure whether this was just how he deals with stress or something resulting from the combination of the two of us. He also said that he was definitely not ready to get married again and asked if that's what I wanted right now.

 

I answered that I am definitely not ready to get married but that I am trying to see whether we could be on a certain track. He said that he didn't have a crystal ball but thought this was a possibility. Basically, he said that he is a very slow person and that these things build slowly for him. We have gone from going out (monogamously) once a week to twice to three to four over the period of 2 years, and things HAVE been building steadily. I made it clear that I wasn't going to spend 5 years in a stagnant relationship, blabla. He understood this as well and said that he didn't want to date forever either (he's in his early 40s, and I'm in my mid 30s). He seems concerned about giving up his independence (which was hard to reclaim after a messy divorce 5 years ago).

 

After all of this, I thanked him for his honesty. We made up, had sex and went out to dinner. Now it's the next day, and I feel quite confused. Is this just a waste of my time? I want to be with someone who is crazy about me, but I am not sure he will ever feel that way. I do believe that he is a slow-grower, but perhaps I am more emotionally invested in the relationship than he is? Or maybe he just needs to lose me to realize what he had?

 

I would greatly appreciate any and all comments.

[Lauriebell82]

Months later, we are still together. We've had a few little spats along the way, but things have basically gone very well. We see each other more than we used to and generally communicate a bit more (but not a ton).

 

Last week I had a fairly serious injury, and I felt like he wasn't entirely there for me. Not a huge deal, but I lost it (even though I'm normally quite patient) and started saying that I needed more, needed to know how he felt, blabla. He was insulted by my outburst, and we got into a substantial fight. After a few days of cooling down, we arranged to talk. Rather than go off, I just calmly told him that I loved him (for the first time). He seemed shocked by this (especially because he expected me to say something more negative). He basically told me that he definitely has feelings for me, he enjoys spending time with me, he is enthusiastic about the relationship, etc...but is not ready to say he loves me (which he seems to link to marriage). He said that he wouldn't be spending all of this time with me if he didn't have such feelings. Additionally, he said that he is not an "I love you" kind of guy and that he doesn't seem to be wired that way. Sometimes he feels very close to me (like when we're spending a lot of time together on vacation) and that sometimes he doesn't feel as close (like when he is stressed from work mid-week). He wasn't entirely sure whether this was just how he deals with stress or something resulting from the combination of the two of us. He also said that he was definitely not ready to get married again and asked if that's what I wanted right now.

 

I answered that I am definitely not ready to get married but that I am trying to see whether we could be on a certain track. He said that he didn't have a crystal ball but thought this was a possibility. Basically, he said that he is a very slow person and that these things build slowly for him. We have gone from going out (monogamously) once a week to twice to three to four over the period of 2 years, and things HAVE been building steadily. I made it clear that I wasn't going to spend 5 years in a stagnant relationship, blabla. He understood this as well and said that he didn't want to date forever either (he's in his early 40s, and I'm in my mid 30s). He seems concerned about giving up his independence (which was hard to reclaim after a messy divorce 5 years ago).

 

After all of this, I thanked him for his honesty. We made up, had sex and went out to dinner. Now it's the next day, and I feel quite confused. Is this just a waste of my time? I want to be with someone who is crazy about me, but I am not sure he will ever feel that way. I do believe that he is a slow-grower, but perhaps I am more emotionally invested in the relationship than he is? Or maybe he just needs to lose me to realize what he had?

 

I would greatly appreciate any and all comments.

 

So 6 months later it doesn't seem like a lot has changed..actually the relationship looks like it regressed if anything.

 

Sounds like he is scared due to his divorce, especially since it was messy. If you want to stay in the relationship, it appears that you will have to be VERY patient with him. He sounds like he is overly cautious though, especially if he can't say "I love you" after 2 years. I think you did the right thing by telling him, you did get your questions answered. He was honest with you, he put it all out there. Which is good. But you didn't get the answers you were hoping for obviously.

 

Sooo...can you deal with his feelings and wait for him? Or not? I think the relationship is unfortuantely going to be soley based on his timeclock and not at all on your's. For me personally, my problem with being in this kind of relationship would less be about it progressing at a steadier pace, and more about him controlling the situation. I would hate to not have an equal say or be able to make decisions together. I would never hand my partner that much power over me.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Lauriebell82

[oldschool1]

Thank you for your reply, lauriebell. Very much appreciated.

 

I would say that the relationship has progressed in the last 6 months. A few mini crises have come up, and we've handled them all pretty well. Also, we spend more time together and are a bit more involved in each other's lives. However, I realized last night that he is not quite at a point where he's ready to commit to something larger. That's ok with me, because our relationship is definitely not ready for things like marriage and kids! Yes, I do think he is quite into control. He is an independent chap who is trying to stave off the effects of a horribly controlling and cruel mother...and a similar wife. I will say that he has done a good job of bending to my needs in the past. When I said I needed more communication, he did it. When I said I needed to see him during the week, he did it. I find it odd that he wouldn't naturally do these things, but I guess he is funny about control.

 

So, I am a patient person and am willing to wait on larger commitment (of course we're monogamous). A year to him is like 3 months to anyone else, so it makes sense that we'd be slow. He would not respond to badgering, but at least he knows how I feel. But, I am concerned that he will never love me in a serious way. Is it possible for feelings to grow this slowly? Or is he just too chicken or comfortable to send me off?

 

Assuming I can handle the uncertainty, should I kill him with kindness or be unavailable?

 

Thanks again.

[Lauriebell82]

So, I am a patient person and am willing to wait on larger commitment (of course we're monogamous). A year to him is like 3 months to anyone else, so it makes sense that we'd be slow. He would not respond to badgering, but at least he knows how I feel. But, I am concerned that he will never love me in a serious way. Is it possible for feelings to grow this slowly? Or is he just too chicken or comfortable to send me off?

 

Well, if a year to him is like 3 months, it may take him another 2 years to finally tell you he loves you..or longer. Or he may never be able to say it. It may not even be that his feelings are growing slowly, but that is acknowledging them slowly. So he may feel that he actually does love you right now, but can't acknowledge or digest that he does. Almost like a type of denial? He said he isn't "wired like that" so that may be it.

 

Assuming I can handle the uncertainty, should I kill him with kindness or be unavailable?

 

I would not play any games with him. He was straightfoward and honest with you, you owe him the same. He laid it all out there for you to accept or not accept. Essentially if you are willing to accept the relationship for what it is right now, then you should just continue to act the way you are acting and let it progress as it has been.

[oldschool1]

Thank you again Lauriebell. You don't know how helpful this is!

 

Yes, I am willing to wait awhile, but not too long (since I'm 36!!). I know he has severe emotional limitations, and his friends know it too. The funny thing about him is that every time I scribble a little picture or draw on a golf ball, he'll display it prominently in his house. And, I am a fairly horrible artist! Obviously he is somewhat sentimental with me, which seems out of character.

 

You're right that I should just be myself. I don't want to push him toward further commitment, etc..., but I do worry that it will be gnawing at me now. I am going to try to be normal, smile, be peppy, and remind him why he likes me. He mentioned that he is in a moment of transition, as he's about to finish up a four year work project and subsequently look for a new job. So, he's extremely stressed right now and (I suppose) is not ready to think about new commitments like marriage or spending more time together. I'm cool with that, and I really don't want to annoy him when he's so busy. I did this with my ridiculously busy ex-husband, and let me tell you how unwise THAT was!

[oldschool1]

Since making up from the fight on Saturday, we had a nice evening on Saturday night and intense makeup sex. We both slept poorly that night, but at least he tried to hug me before going to sleep (something I had discussed I needed). He also called me Sunday night to see if I wanted to have dinner. It was unusual for me to say no, but I was already having dinner at a girlfriend's house. Due to his psycho schedule (which is about to end in a week), he said he might be working till midnight the next few days until he leaves town on a business trip on Sunday. After I said I couldn't do dinner, he said that he would make time to see me before he left. I thought that was good.

 

Considering that I just told him that I needed more and that I loved him, I find it somewhat encouraging that he doesn't seem to be running away. I know that for him, it's a big deal to share more of his time. Of course, I need more than just time; I need to feel loved. Is that going to happen? I don't know. This guy definitely wouldn't mess around with me if he didn't have real feelings. However, he always seems to keep me at an arm's length. If we go away on vacation and are around each other a solid week, it's great. Then we come back and he immerses himself in work for 4 days or more. This is a pattern I have noticed. He's very emotionally closed off and afraid of letting things get out of balance (I feel). On the other hand, we have definitely moved from seeing each other once a week to twice, three times and now sometimes four (when his schedule permits). Perhaps he just needs more time to accept change. It took him 6 months to introduce me as his girlfriend, but now he does it proudly. It took him awhile to bond with my dog, but now he hugs him all the time. You see my point. I guess I don't know how emotionally invested he is, and perhaps he doesn't know either.

 

During our big discussion, I also asked him how it was with his ex-wife. Was he head-over-heels with her? He said absolutely not. They clicked and had a lot of fun the first year, and then he relocated and moved in with her. He said it went downhill immediately. Six years later (despite a relationship in the gutter), he married her to appease her. She left him immediately. Craziness!! My marriage, which ended much more recently, was much, much better. My ex and I are wonderful friends, and he has even advised me on this matter.

 

Any comments? Is this guy just not that into me? Or is he in need of patience? I just threw this I love you and I need more bit on him, so I wouldn't expect him to implement it all immediately (especially with his terrible schedule, which all ends in 2 weeks).

 

Thank you so much.