How did I end up paying for this date? I snapped tonight

[Mimolicious]

Yeah those prices are about par for restaurants that are appropriate for dates. $260 is a little high -- that was one of the top restaurants in the city and reasonable for a fourth date -- but usually around $100-150 for two appetizers, two main courses, one or two desserts, and two rounds of drinks each is typical. I don't do Starbucks or McDonald's or any other type of cheap ghetto locales...some people might, but that's not my thing.

 

I keep a spreadsheet of all my revenues and expenses and have done so since I graduated from college. I can tell you my net savings to the penny over the last 10+ years.

 

 

Ummm... $260 "Top Restaurant" in NY? Ok. 10yrs ago? Not even. That's kinda average, lol! Starbucks ghetto? Maybe Dunkin Donuts? I mean, who besides a BFF who just got dumped wants to meet at Starbucks anyway!

[zengirl]

I eat sushi 3-4 times a week and have had it all over the world and NYC has unarguably the best sushi in the world.

 

That is an insane assertion. Though we may disagree on what's "best." To me, sushi is all about the quality of the ingredients. I don't like "inventive" sushi. But I'm half-Japanese, so to me sushi is a different thing than it is to many Americans.

 

There's no way NYC has better sushi than Tokyo. That's just ridiculous.

[zengirl]

A drink in NYC is average $14-18 at a whishy-washy spot. At a "hot spot" like $21. A beer is $8. LOL! Movies is $14 p/p or something like that. A cab is like $2.50 off-peek hrs the minute to sit inside. It's NYC "The Melting-Pot" so it also depends on your taste & pocket. You'll be dining at White Castle if you only got $20 for a date. NOT EVEN! Sal's Pizzeria more like it, and only a few slice of Pizza.

 

Philly- you don't have to say exactly where but where do you live?

 

I always assumed Philly lived in Philly.

 

I've been to NYC many times and have family there. There are good hole in the walls, cafes, gastropubs, etc, that are not that pricey, even in NYC. Though I don't drink a lot of alcohol besides wine/beer. That's why I said, depends on drink prices. I don't really think drinking more than a single drink on an early date is appropriate, personally, but I know I'm old fashioned. I was talking purely about food costs. I've eaten at many good, non-chain, non-fast food NYC restaurants that weren't ridiculous. They may not be "hot spots" but that's never going to be my thing. In any city. There's a pho place I love up there that's really cheap.

[nyc_guy2003]

That is an insane assertion. Though we may disagree on what's "best." To me, sushi is all about the quality of the ingredients. I don't like "inventive" sushi. But I'm half-Japanese, so to me sushi is a different thing than it is to many Americans.

 

There's no way NYC has better sushi than Tokyo. That's just ridiculous.

 

Just because you say sushi is NYC sucks doesn't mean you're the final arbiter of what is good cuisine and what isn't, especially when you are eating at restaurants where you can get a full meal for two for $50. At that price you are definitely not going to get top quality or even above-average quality fish. I grew up in sushi culture and most people that I eat with say NYC is easily better than Tokyo. Also, I know plenty of Japanese people who couldn't tell raw fish from a McDonald's hambuger.

[zengirl]

Just because you say sushi is NYC sucks doesn't mean you're the final arbiter of what is good cuisine and what isn't, especially when you are eating at restaurants where you can get a full meal for two for $50. At that price you are definitely not going to get top quality or even above-average quality fish. I grew up in sushi culture and most people that I eat with say NYC is easily better than Tokyo. Also, I know plenty of Japanese people who couldn't tell raw fish from a McDonald's hambuger.

 

Sushi is one of my favorite foods, and I've lived in Japan and eaten fresh sushi in Japan. The idea that anyone would assert that NYC has "unarguably" better sushi than anywhere in the world is laughable to me.

 

I've had expensive sushi in NYC on a company dime, and it was subpar. All the sushi I've had there was subpar, as is most East Coast sushi (forget Middle America sushi). That's just life; I'm not mad about it; there's tons of great East coast seafood that is better here than other countries. It all depends. I would never pretend to be the final arbiter of good cuisine, and there's likely a restaurant or two in every major city that has decent sushi with what they can work with, but you get fresher sushi in certain places. That's just geographically true.

 

Good food doesn't have to be expensive, though I'll allow it's going to be more expensive in NYC. That place IS overpriced. Though I do disagree with the assertion that anyone who's spending less than $50 is always eating at some subpar place, some crappy chain, etc. Anyway, the $50 sushi place was not in NYC. I would doubt that the best sushi in NYC (still nothing compared to what I ate in Japan) was that price, yes. But I'm doubtful it's the most expensive place, too. The most expensive place for something is rarely the best.

[nyc_guy2003]

A drink in NYC is average $14-18 at a whishy-washy spot. At a "hot spot" like $21. A beer is $8. LOL! Movies is $14 p/p or something like that. A cab is like $2.50 off-peek hrs the minute to sit inside. It's NYC "The Melting-Pot" so it also depends on your taste & pocket. You'll be dining at White Castle if you only got $20 for a date. NOT EVEN! Sal's Pizzeria more like it, and only a few slice of Pizza.

 

Philly- you don't have to say exactly where but where do you live?

 

Don't forget that tax and tip add another 23-28% to the bill.

[nyc_guy2003]

Sushi is one of my favorite foods, and I've lived in Japan and eaten fresh sushi in Japan. The idea that anyone would assert that NYC has "unarguably" better sushi than anywhere in the world is laughable to me.

 

I've had expensive sushi in NYC on a company dime, and it was subpar. All the sushi I've had there was subpar, as is most East Coast sushi (forget Middle America sushi). That's just life; I'm not mad about it; there's tons of great East coast seafood that is better here than other countries. It all depends. I would never pretend to be the final arbiter of good cuisine, and there's likely a restaurant or two in every major city that has decent sushi with what they can work with, but you get fresher sushi in certain places. That's just geographically true.

 

Good food doesn't have to be expensive, though I'll allow it's going to be more expensive in NYC. That place IS overpriced. Though I do disagree with the assertion that anyone who's spending less than $50 is always eating at some subpar place, some crappy chain, etc. Anyway, the $50 sushi place was not in NYC. I would doubt that the best sushi in NYC (still nothing compared to what I ate in Japan) was that price, yes. But I'm doubtful it's the most expensive place, too. The most expensive place for something is rarely the best.

 

Personally I find Japanese sushi to be vastly overrated, as do most people I talk to who have eaten there. Very conveyor-belty quality.

 

Quality is definitely correlated to price. You get what you pay for, and at $50 you are definitely getting below-average food.

[zengirl]

Personally I find Japanese sushi to be vastly overrated, as do most people I talk to who have eaten there. Very conveyor-belty quality.

 

Quality is definitely correlated to price. You get what you pay for, and at $50 you are definitely getting below-average food.

 

Clearly, you have some huge association with price, which is a shame. Plenty of the best food is not the most expensive.

 

And conveyor-belt is a STYLE that has nothing to do with the quality level of the fish.

[nyc_guy2003]

Clearly, you have some huge association with price, which is a shame. Plenty of the best food is not the most expensive.

 

And conveyor-belt is a STYLE that has nothing to do with the quality level of the fish.

 

Clearly you have a complex about not being able to afford or have access to top-quality food, which does not come cheap.

 

And it's not hard to figure out why Japanese sushi, conveyor belt or not, is not top quality, in terms of presentation, freshness, and taste. Time and time again I hear stories of disappointment in the average quality of fish over there. It's no coincidence that the top sushi chefs in the world are located in New York.

[zengirl]

Clearly you have a complex about not being able to afford or have access to top-quality food, which does not come cheap.

 

Nope, I've had expensive meals. And no complex.

 

And it's not hard to figure out why Japanese sushi, conveyor belt or not, is not top quality, in terms of presentation, freshness, and taste. Time and time again I hear stories of disappointment in the average quality of fish over there. It's no coincidence that the top sushi chefs in the world are located in New York.

 

Japan has the best sushi. Period.

 

NYC may have more "famous" chefs, but again, fame does not = better. Fame is a cultural byproduct. And the American chef culture is a little whack, frankly. Clearly, your time was wasted in Japan if you went there and couldn't find good sushi. It's in abundance, conveyor and non. And sometimes the most expensive stuff there (for the tourists) is not even close to the best at all. Same everywhere. You don't get what you pay for, and it pays to do your research.

[nyc_guy2003]

 

Japan has the best sushi. Period.

 

NYC may have more "famous" chefs, but again, fame does not = better. Fame is a cultural byproduct. Clearly, your time was wasted in Japan if you went there and couldn't find good sushi. It's in abundance, conveyor and non. And sometimes the most expensive stuff there (for the tourists) is not even close to the best at all. Same everywhere. You don't get what you pay for, and it pays to do your research.

 

Wow, ok. Just because you said so makes it a fact, and the millions of people who consider New York the sushi capital of the world are wrong because someone who eats at a hole in the wall a couple times a year laid down the truth. You should probably take your own advice about doing some research instead of generalizing off of one or two experiences.

 

And no, Japan does not have the best sushi. Probably not even second or third best.

[Mimolicious]

I am on board with everything D Lish said. That's how I do as well. To me, anything that makes the pre-dating process awkward is going to lead me to cancel it, and bringing up who pays for a date we haven't even had is awkward and (a) shows that you either have a rule or are worried about things that have happened with other girls or (b) that you're so ridiculously concerned with money you need to discuss it beforehand.

 

Then again, I've never had a guy NOT insist on paying for a first date except guys who literally said on the date they weren't that into me (totally fair enough -- I'm not upset about it) or weren't looking for a relationship, though I have gone dutch many times because I had no interest in the guy.

 

 

 

I don't see it that way, but yeah, if a guy said, "We're having sex after this date, right?" I'd not go on it either. I don't like the idea of stating these weird preconditions out. Dating disclaimers? Not my thing. Express yourself, sure, but why the need to ask me beforehand. It seems like worry, and worry is unattractive.

 

Personally, though, I've never gone dutch on a date (first or any) with a guy I liked, unless we're talking a very expensive event where we both bought our tickets ahead of time, though I have paid for dates and been paid for. Perhaps if it were culture here to do that, I'd not see the phrase as so odd beforehand. I've totally gone dutch on dates, but to me, it normally means the date isn't going well. If I liked a guy and he was temporarily unemployed, though, I'd totally try to pick up the whole tab. Though I'd hope he would reciprocate later, when he got back on his feet.

 

 

 

Well, east coast sushi kind of sucks anyway. My BF and I just got sushi the other day that was really good (almost rivaled some of the sushi in Cali, nowhere near the sushi in Japan of course, but nowhere in the U.S. does) with saki and some appetizers beforehand, and we still paid around $50. But, again, not NYC. I've never had good sushi in NYC, though I've tried a few places. It's rare to get good sushi here, too. There's only one place I like, and it's not the most expensive place in town (which I've eaten at and which has sushi that's about grocery store quality -- kind of crap). I've eaten sushi in Japan for less than $50 a person, and (a) food is expensive in Japan, (b) sushi is especially expensive -- the good stuff especially, and © the dollar sucked there when I was there.

 

I don't eat a lot of burgers (though a gastropub is cool on occasion), but I've had good Thai, Indian, French, California Fusion, Vietnamese, Irish, Chinese, Spanish, and Italian food in NYC for less than $100 for a pair. Depends how much you drink, of course. I don't do multiple courses in most cases because Americans eat too damn much anyway.

 

There are some fancy places where they give you small portions for a lot of money (I like the portion sizes) but I'm not a fan of anywhere I couldn't wear an everyday dress/leggings or a nice jeans outfit to, personally, so I'd rarely go to them. (Even if I am dressed up. . . it's not being against dressing up. Fancy stuff just isn't my cuppa.) There's a whole wealth of great cuisine that isn't expensive these days. I'm a foodie, so I'm all about food quality, but price rarely shows you the whole story about food quality.

 

But I do hear the dating culture expects fancy crap. I find that odd, personally. Who wants to go on fancy dates all the time?

 

On the bolded- word of advice: 1. This depends on the day of the week you are eating your Sushi. 2. Most Sushi that was served from Japan, now is not because of the radioactive contamination scare. It's actually a good thing not to eat Sushi from Japan. LOL! 3. Depends what you are ordering. Some rolls or sashimi are not from Japanese cuisine to begin with. As you can see, even Philly has a roll.

[carhill]

Yeah, a cheap date would be sushi/sashimi (or anything else one liked) at any of the basement food markets adjacent a Japanese subway station. Man, that was some good (and cheap) food. Once I tried one in Osaka, I was hooked. Didn't understand anything I read or heard but the food was superb.

[zengirl]

On the bolded- word of advice: 1. This depends on the day of the week you are eating your Sushi. 2. Most Sushi that was served from Japan, now is not because of the radioactive contamination scare. It's actually a good thing not to eat Sushi from Japan. LOL! 3. Depends what you are ordering. Some rolls or sashimi are not from Japanese cuisine to begin with. As you can see, even Philly has a roll.

 

Well, I don't disagree that the recent contamination scare likely has impacted sushi quality. True. (And sad.) I haven't been to Japan since before that happened. But the recent reports show the contamination was a lot less than we thought, so it should be up and running in no time. (West Coast sushi doesn't always come from Japan, but is generally better on average. There are certainly other places besides simply "Japan" for good quality fish, but most are not terribly near the East coast/the Atlantic, is all.)

 

And yes, day of the week matters a lot! With all fish. (Never eat fish on a Sunday or a Monday, period. Please!)

 

As I said, I'm not a fan of the more inventive rolls. If they also have quality fish, nothing wrong with them (though just give me some high quality tuna in a normal roll, and I'm in heaven), but they often are created to hide lower quality fish.

[Mimolicious]

I always assumed Philly lived in Philly.

 

I've been to NYC many times and have family there. There are good hole in the walls, cafes, gastropubs, etc, that are not that pricey, even in NYC. Though I don't drink a lot of alcohol besides wine/beer. That's why I said, depends on drink prices. I don't really think drinking more than a single drink on an early date is appropriate, personally, but I know I'm old fashioned. I was talking purely about food costs. I've eaten at many good, non-chain, non-fast food NYC restaurants that weren't ridiculous. They may not be "hot spots" but that's never going to be my thing. In any city. There's a pho place I love up there that's really cheap.

 

 

I agree. Also, remember that a lot of fusion or traditional chefs own most of the joints in NYC. The personalization in cuisine can be over the top and changes from one place to the next. 2 places never alike, even if the type of cuisine is considered the same. You'd be amazed how many different chicken parms are out there! Shyte, I've eaten at Bodegas, where the Cuban food is way better than any Victor's or Larios.

 

NYC does not have the best Sushi in the world. Let's not be ridiculous! I guess it comes down to a person's taste though. BTW, Masa, Megu and Karamu fly in their sushi from Japan. How NY'er is that!?

 

Philly Fan may just be that- a Philly Fan?!? Not sure if he's from Philly though. I mean, PA is the sticks but not Philly. Just saying...

[Mimolicious]

Clearly you have a complex about not being able to afford or have access to top-quality food, which does not come cheap.

 

And it's not hard to figure out why Japanese sushi, conveyor belt or not, is not top quality, in terms of presentation, freshness, and taste. Time and time again I hear stories of disappointment in the average quality of fish over there. It's no coincidence that the top sushi chefs in the world are located in New York.

 

It's also not coincidence that the top sushi chefs in the world are located in NY and fly in their sushi from Japan. LOL! Or else, bring on the rubber and imitation crab out for everybody!

[zengirl]

I agree. Also, remember that a lot of fusion or traditional chefs own most of the joints in NYC. The personalization in cuisine can be over the top and changes from one place to the next. 2 places never alike, even if the type of cuisine is considered the same. You'd be amazed how many different chicken parms are out there! Shyte, I've eaten at Bodegas, where the Cuban food is way better than any Victor's or Larios.

 

NYC does not have the best Sushi in the world. Let's not be ridiculous! I guess it comes down to a person's taste though. BTW, Masa, Megu and Karamu fly in their sushi from Japan. How NY'er is that!?

 

Philly Fan may just be that- a Philly Fan?!? Not sure if he's from Philly though. I mean, PA is the sticks but not Philly. Just saying...

 

Flying it in is never going to get you the freshest fish, sadly. I love locally sourced, very fresh food (whatever that food happens to be), and every area has their own specialties.

 

Oh, and I'd never argue NYC doesn't have some great restaurants -- just thought it was silly he said they had unarguably the best sushi in the world. IME, the hot spots there (and in most American cities; not always true in other nations where "hot" really does = quality and not price or panache) are usually disappointing is all, and price is not a determiner there (or anywhere) of quality. From other city perspectives (well, most other cities, not all): Everything is overpriced in NYC, but salaries are higher to compensate, so I'm sure it works out. I've had awesome food in NYC of all different types and some interesting combinations, as you say.

[Mimolicious]

Wow, ok. Just because you said so makes it a fact, and the millions of people who consider New York the sushi capital of the world are wrong because someone who eats at a hole in the wall a couple times a year laid down the truth. You should probably take your own advice about doing some research instead of generalizing off of one or two experiences.

 

And no, Japan does not have the best sushi. Probably not even second or third best.

 

 

With Japanese imported Sushi. :lmao: NYC- really, you do know this right?

Anyway, let's stop t/j Philly's thread. This is not about Sushi, Mondongo, Carne Frita or Pasteles.

 

Philly- hope that you soon get some azz... since you are not a few bucks down and not even a kiss. Good luck Kiddo.

[nyc_guy2003]

Experiencing food as a tourist is definitely not the same as experiencing food as a local. If all you eat at are tourist "hot spots" a couple times a year, then any definitive assumptions you make on the entire spectrum of food quality based on a small sample size would be highly ignorant.

[nyc_guy2003]

With Japanese imported Sushi. :lmao: NYC- really, you do know this right?

Anyway, let's stop t/j Philly's thread. This is not about Sushi, Mondongo, Carne Frita or Pasteles.

 

Philly- hope that you soon get some azz... since you are not a few bucks down and not even a kiss. Good luck Kiddo.

 

It's kind of ignorant to assume that all sushi gets imported from Japan. In reality almost none of it is.

[nyc_guy2003]

just thought it was silly he said they had unarguably the best sushi in the world.

 

Just as silly as proclaiming that Japan has unarguably the best sushi in the world. One person's opinion does not make it gospel for everyone else. And assuming you don't live in Japan or New York, your sample size for both markets is most definitely not large enough to make blanket proclamations on either.

[Mimolicious]

Experiencing food as a tourist is definitely not the same as experiencing food as a local. If all you eat at are tourist "hot spots" a couple times a year, then any definitive assumptions you make on the entire spectrum of food quality based on a small sample size would be highly ignorant.

 

 

Most of food critics (professionals) are not locals. But taste is not something that can really be evaluated and measured, besides the person that is doing the tasting.

 

Like Philly- he had a taste of "tuck and roll" chick. He didn't like it. Some other dude sees nothing wrong with the girl's behavior. Perception!

[nyc_guy2003]

Most of food critics (professionals) are not locals.

 

Actually, most food critics are locals, so you're already off base from the start.

[zengirl]

Just as silly as proclaiming that Japan has unarguably the best sushi in the world. One person's opinion does not make it gospel for everyone else. And assuming you don't live in Japan or New York, your sample size for both markets is most definitely not large enough to make blanket proclamations on either.

 

Technically I claimed Japan had the best after you went all ridiculous claiming NYC had unarguably the best sushi. And I never said it couldn't be argued. There are other countries and locales you could say get a similar quality of fish. Not anywhere near NYC, though. All the good fish there is traveling quite a long ways.

 

But Japan has some of the best, if not the best quality sushi in the world (quality of the fish), which is why as another poster said, some of the more "expensive" restaurants you may like will fly it in (that WOULD up the cost considerably, but that same fish would be fresher and cost LESS in Japan!). When you eat local, you get fresher and cheaper foods. That's true everywhere. And the types of fish used in sushi are not naturally local to NYC. Thus: quality is diminished. Nowhere on the East coast of the U.S. could rival Japan in quality of sushi-grade fish locally. That's just geography.

 

Also: Trying to claim American sushi is the "real" sushi is as silly as trying to claim American pizza or American Mexican food are the "real" versions, and, yes, is a pet peeve of mine. Now, granted, I like Tex Mex better than Mexican food (though I like both), and I love me some Chicago style pizza, but let's not pretend it is the same thing. So, if you get a sushi roll with fried chicken in it or something and it's divine, that's lovely, but it's totally fusion food and not simply traditional sushi.

[AmEricanWomann]

This thread is something. It started as a rant by a guy who was upset because he had to pay for his date, but turned into to a debate about which city has the best sushi. I like a good debate as much as anyone, but you're arguing about sushi, really?

 

Its really kind of subjective anyway. NYCguy may love the taste of NY sushi and find Japanese sushi to be lacking a certain something.

And Zengirl might feel strongly that the country where sushi originated obviously has the best.

Neither is right or wrong, it all depends on what you like.

Me, I like the JB roll they make at the local supermarket. Hey, its fresh and I'm Jewish, so pretty much anything with cream cheese will taste good to me.