Karma

[lynne76]

I hope this doesn't sound vindictive to ask....I'm truly just curious. Has anyone ever seen an affair that wasn't disclosed, either by the OP or the MP, eventually catch up to the MP? For instance, if the affair ends, does it ever happen that the BS eventually discovers it anyway? Even years later? Or has anyone ever seen the marriage the MP has dissolve on its own accord?

 

I just wonder sometimes, if there really is something to the idea of karma, especially in these situations, where the MP is so deliberately untruthful....if they ever have to deal with it in any real way, rather than just to keep it a secret.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

So the wife must find out and deal with the betrayal in order for you to feel vindicated? Maybe karma for him comes at a different price. Maybe his child is born with two heads, would that suffice? Is karma only for MPs or does it also apply to anyone who knowingly affects another's life negatively? If he deserves bad Karma, would you not also? Or does the wife need to find out and wish it on you?

 

Personally I think most western ideas of karma are merely, "just deserts". Does he deserve it? Yes, possibly, but at the expense of hurting his family even more? Not sure about that one. It seems that only the people involved in the betrayal deserve to have their "just deserts".

[Summer Breeze]

I hope this doesn't sound vindictive to ask....I'm truly just curious. Has anyone ever seen an affair that wasn't disclosed, either by the OP or the MP, eventually catch up to the MP? For instance, if the affair ends, does it ever happen that the BS eventually discovers it anyway? Even years later? Or has anyone ever seen the marriage the MP has dissolve on its own accord?

 

I just wonder sometimes, if there really is something to the idea of karma, especially in these situations, where the MP is so deliberately untruthful....if they ever have to deal with it in any real way, rather than just to keep it a secret.

 

I don't believe in Karma myself. **** happens and it happens to everyone. How can you explain bad things that happen to good people if you believe in Karma?

[shayla]

I think that the karma for the unfaithful spouse is that they never tell and they have to live with lying for the rest of the marriage....even in someone that has no heart at all would get tired of having to guard everything they say in order to preserve that lie, plus all the other lies that have to be told to cover the first lie.

 

Liars have it hard!!! LOL

And it is their own fault.

[bentnotbroken]

I don't believe in karma either. I do believe you reap the seeds you sow, in one form or another. There have been stories on her about spouses finding out years later and the fall out. Long after the cheater has moved on and considers themselves great spouses. Nothing done in the dark remains there, especially if it is something done that hurt others.

[Silly_Girl]

Karma? I like to loosely believe in karma. Like horoscopes I believe if it suits me to do so. Same with statistics

 

I had a rotten time for several years with a troubled and often nasty man. And now I'm having an absolute ball with a really lovely fella and have never been so happy. Good ol' karma!

[Spark1111]

I hope this doesn't sound vindictive to ask....I'm truly just curious. Has anyone ever seen an affair that wasn't disclosed, either by the OP or the MP, eventually catch up to the MP? For instance, if the affair ends, does it ever happen that the BS eventually discovers it anyway? Even years later? Or has anyone ever seen the marriage the MP has dissolve on its own accord?

 

I just wonder sometimes, if there really is something to the idea of karma, especially in these situations, where the MP is so deliberately untruthful....if they ever have to deal with it in any real way, rather than just to keep it a secret.

 

Keeping a lifelong secret from your SO can be it's own karma. How many deathbed revelations are considered "truth" by the courts? All. That's sad.

 

Making the same 'ole mistakes, over and over and going around the same old track can be its own karma.

 

Living a "less than" life can be its own karma.

 

Even if the BS never learns of the affair, their are always consequences to actions, secrets, and other forms of behavior. They may be internal, or they may be in all relationships.

[Circular]

The true definition of Karma means it will effect you in the next life, that is if you believe in reincarnation. What you're asking about is loosely defined as 'instant karma' or 'divine retribution'. It's a question that do somehow the tables get evened in this lifetime for those who have done wrong. I could go down into a philosophical rat hole on this because 'wrong' is always defined in the context of the present societal norms, morals, etc...

 

Your question though pokes at a deeper question about 'Does anyone walk away from an A unscathed' and my true belief on that one is a resounding No. To varying degrees everyone is harmed in an A regardless of a D-Day. You might think the WS 'got away' by not having a d-day but it's not so simple, nothing in life that involves attachments is.

[ladydesigner]

The true definition of Karma means it will effect you in the next life, that is if you believe in reincarnation. What you're asking about is loosely defined as 'instant karma' or 'divine retribution'. It's a question that do somehow the tables get evened in this lifetime for those who have done wrong. I could go down into a philosophical rat hole on this because 'wrong' is always defined in the context of the present societal norms, morals, etc...

 

Your question though pokes at a deeper question about 'Does anyone walk away from an A unscathed' and my true belief on that one is a resounding No. To varying degrees everyone is harmed in an A regardless of a D-Day. You might think the WS 'got away' by not having a d-day but it's not so simple, nothing in life that involves attachments is.

 

So true Circular. Whether I choose to disclose my A (revenge affair not that it makes a difference) or not I still get to live with the fact that I did something that I am not very proud of and will have to live with that thought until I leave this earth.

[fooled once]

Keeping a lifelong secret from your SO can be it's own karma. How many deathbed revelations are considered "truth" by the courts? All. That's sad.

 

Making the same 'ole mistakes, over and over and going around the same old track can be its own karma.

 

Living a "less than" life can be its own karma.

 

Even if the BS never learns of the affair, their are always consequences to actions, secrets, and other forms of behavior. They may be internal, or they may be in all relationships.

 

I agree!!!!!!

[lynne76]

I guess I am just trying to make sense of things. My xMM never disclosed our affair to his wife....so presumably, they would still have the same problems in their marriage that led him (at least in part) to me in the first place. I can understand if a disclosed affair leads the marriage partners to rebuild and work on their relationship, but if it is not disclosed, won't those problems still be there, at least for him? And wouldn't she "sense" that something was amiss while he and I were together, or even now, after the fact? I have never been married so I'm not sure how it all works. I just wonder if he thinks of me...and as I still love him, I worry that I won't have a chance to say "goodbye" to him years and years from now....like when he dies. We really love one another, despite the fact of his marriage. He would want to see me, too.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Wasn't what led him to stray the pressures from trying to conceive? Wasn't he in a relatively happy marriage? Didn't they give up but continue to make love? Aren't they now pregnant? It's seems that those things have been resolved. The reason people cheat says more about them than the marriage. If I bully, deceive, or purposely act in a way that will hurt someone else, is that about ME or do I get to blame my poor behavior on a relationship or the person I'm hurting? If you choose to take this unhappiness to your death bed, then that is your own personal karma of your own choosing.

 

Leave this woman alone and let her enjoy her pregnancy and baby. Worry about yourself and not whether she is being punnished or not for you and her husbands misbehavior.

[Silly_Girl]

I guess I am just trying to make sense of things. My xMM never disclosed our affair to his wife....so presumably, they would still have the same problems in their marriage that led him (at least in part) to me in the first place. I can understand if a disclosed affair leads the marriage partners to rebuild and work on their relationship, but if it is not disclosed, won't those problems still be there, at least for him? And wouldn't she "sense" that something was amiss while he and I were together, or even now, after the fact? I have never been married so I'm not sure how it all works. I just wonder if he thinks of me...and as I still love him, I worry that I won't have a chance to say "goodbye" to him years and years from now....like when he dies. We really love one another, despite the fact of his marriage. He would want to see me, too.

 

I have never understood why the married person would 'not leave' as opposed to 'reconciling'. I don't see how it can ever be better.

 

I know in the short term life is less stressful and the peace away from the serious issues can be a relief. But that doesn't last. Depending on the situation reality can be very depressing.

[jthorne]

I have never understood why the married person would 'not leave' as opposed to 'reconciling'. I don't see how it can ever be better.

 

I know in the short term life is less stressful and the peace away from the serious issues can be a relief. But that doesn't last. Depending on the situation reality can be very depressing.

This makes the erroneous assumption that the marriage was the cause of the cheating.

 

I'd argue that the WS's poor coping skills is the cause.

[Silly_Girl]

This makes the erroneous assumption that the marriage was the cause of the cheating.

 

I'd argue that the WS's poor coping skills is the cause.

 

It doesn't make any assumption as to the cause, erroneous or otherwise. To go back and change nothing is the issue, in my view. No one wins, everyone loses.

[jthorne]

The true definition of Karma means it will effect you in the next life, that is if you believe in reincarnation. What you're asking about is loosely defined as 'instant karma' or 'divine retribution'. It's a question that do somehow the tables get evened in this lifetime for those who have done wrong. I could go down into a philosophical rat hole on this because 'wrong' is always defined in the context of the present societal norms, morals, etc...

Actually, according to our dear resident Buddhist, TaraMaiden, you are partially correct.

 

Karma (or kamma, in Pali) simply means Volitional action.

 

That is, any action which is pre-meditated and deliberate.

 

It can be carried out in 3 ways;

Through what we think, through what we say, and through what we do.

Kamma has consequences (Vipaka).

 

"What goes around comes around" is both over-simplistic and inaccurate.

 

And what people forget, is that we all generate Kamma-Vipaka. Whether you believe in it or not, is immaterial.

Kamma is a natural process happening all the time, to everyone.

 

It's not judgemental, it doesn't evaluate, it's not "a force to be reckoned with", it's not revenge, it's not pay-back.

 

Kamma Just Is.

You act, and you get a consequence.

Be it positive, negative or neutral.

Be it immediate or "down the line".

 

The trick it to first and foremost, watch the thinking.

That's where it all begins.

With what you think.

 

Amend the thought to become positive or neutral, and the rest follows accordingly.

 

If you develop a thought into formulating words, or enacting deeds, then you build the consequences.

 

I once contributed in exactly this vein in another thread, and somebody came back with a comment along the lines of:

 

"Oh right, TM, well we get what you as a Buddhist are defining as Karma, but we don't mean that kind, the kind we mean is payback, kick in the pants stuff".

 

"Fine," I replied.

"But then, it's not karma.

So either use the term accurately, or don't bother, because you merely perpetuate ignorance, which makes you misunderstood and inaccurate. It also belittles the Dhamma (teachings of the Buddha) which is mildly disrespectful, and makes light of something Buddhists take very seriously."

 

 

 

Your question though pokes at a deeper question about 'Does anyone walk away from an A unscathed' and my true belief on that one is a resounding No. To varying degrees everyone is harmed in an A regardless of a D-Day. You might think the WS 'got away' by not having a d-day but it's not so simple, nothing in life that involves attachments is.

According to Tara's quote above, no one ever walks away with anything done deliberately.

 

"Kamma means you don't get away with anything. And it all counts.

Whatever thought/word/action process you CHOOSE to follow, so will kamma develop accordingly.

 

Kamma is not being punished/rewarded "for" your deeds, but it's being punished/rewarded BY them."

[Circular]

Actually, according to our dear resident Buddhist, TaraMaiden, you are partially correct.

 

 

 

 

 

According to Tara's quote above, no one ever walks away with anything done deliberately.

 

"Kamma means you don't get away with anything. And it all counts.

Whatever thought/word/action process you CHOOSE to follow, so will kamma develop accordingly.

 

Kamma is not being punished/rewarded "for" your deeds, but it's being punished/rewarded BY them."

 

Though I fully respect the Buddha's teachings I was referring to the Hindu variant of Karma that is interpreted to be an accumulation of past and present-life actions that are carried forward by the 'soul'.

 

I think we're both saying the same thing about present day punishment/reward based on our actions.

[ladydesigner]

This makes the erroneous assumption that the marriage was the cause of the cheating.

 

I'd argue that the WS's poor coping skills is the cause.

 

I absolutely agree with this. My coping skills were just awful after discovering my H's A's. I do not think a marriage is ever the cause for cheating. The cheater is the cause for cheating.

[Silly_Girl]

I absolutely agree with this. My coping skills were just awful after discovering my H's A's. I do not think a marriage is ever the cause for cheating. The cheater is the cause for cheating.

 

Very simplistic. If you take it to the basic level, there can be no other answer. Lots of couples, however, discover and acknowledge that they are ill-matched and insufficiently committed. 'Marriage' doesn't cause cheating. 'Marriage' is the sum of two people, not an entity of itself. There's the reason.

[FL510]

I hope this doesn't sound vindictive to ask....I'm truly just curious. Has anyone ever seen an affair that wasn't disclosed, either by the OP or the MP, eventually catch up to the MP? For instance, if the affair ends, does it ever happen that the BS eventually discovers it anyway? Even years later? Or has anyone ever seen the marriage the MP has dissolve on its own accord?

 

I just wonder sometimes, if there really is something to the idea of karma, especially in these situations, where the MP is so deliberately untruthful....if they ever have to deal with it in any real way, rather than just to keep it a secret.

 

I am in the process of breaking things off completely with my OW. My mega thread just got locked on the infidelity board for those interested. I have not decided 100 percent yet, but I am leaning towards never telling my wife. Karma is something I will deal with when it hits me I guess, but for now it is the right decision for me.

[jthorne]

Very simplistic. If you take it to the basic level, there can be no other answer. Lots of couples, however, discover and acknowledge that they are ill-matched and insufficiently committed. 'Marriage' doesn't cause cheating. 'Marriage' is the sum of two people, not an entity of itself. There's the reason.

And in such a scenario, people with appropriate coping skills admit they are ill-matched and either go to MC or get divorced. Those with inappropriate coping skills cheat.

 

It is that simple.

[ladydesigner]

And in such a scenario, people with appropriate coping skills admit they are ill-matched and either go to MC or get divorced. Those with inappropriate coping skills cheat.

 

It is that simple.

 

This is such good food for thought I believe I am going to explore this in my therapy. Why do some develop poor coping skills, are they always poor or become poor? Is it situational? There have been times I have had great coping skills and others not so great. I would say both my parents have poor coping skills, so maybe it is learned?

[jthorne]

This is such good food for thought I believe I am going to explore this in my therapy. Why do some develop poor coping skills, are they always poor or become poor? Is it situational? There have been times I have had great coping skills and others not so great. I would say both my parents have poor coping skills, so maybe it is learned?

I think a lot of it is learned, but I'd be interested in what your therapist has to say.

 

Perhaps an interesting topic for another thread!

[Silly_Girl]

And in such a scenario, people with appropriate coping skills admit they are ill-matched and either go to MC or get divorced. Those with inappropriate coping skills cheat.

 

It is that simple.

 

In a world of robots, yes indeed. Meanwhile, back on earth...

[woinlove]

In a world of robots, yes indeed. Meanwhile, back on earth...

 

Really? Why do you think a statement that cheating is a poor way of coping doesn't apply to the real world? Do you think cheating is a good way to cope? How would having to lie to and deceive, often on a daily basis, one's family be a good way to cope?