Great guy, great dates for a month - but he just changed his online dating profile

[logano]

I appreciate all your thoughts and I like the fact that you all have different opinions. I'm new to dating, so everything I can glean from others is much appreciated. I guess if everyone in the world agreed about the "rules" of dating, there wouldn't be this forum!

I'd like to clarify a few things.

Sleeping with him on the first date wasn't the best decision, and if I could do it over I wouldn't, but it wasn't what ended things.

Yes, 4 dates isn't a lot, but when you know, you know. To whit: I knew within a minute of meeting my ex-husband that he was the man for me. And I was right, for most of our 16 year relationship things were really good. Obviously, things took a turn for the worse, but that doesn't mean that my instincts were wrong or that it was a failed relationship.

We were intimate emotionally and intellectually, not just physically.

He pursued me.

Everything really was going great.

And as for maintaing the online profile, I didn't like it, but he has the right so early in the relationship to maintain one, as do I.

 

But my hurt is nothing like the hurt I've felt in the past when I've been dumped. Those breakups made sense, had a reason I could understand. Sure, they were heartbreak and I was miserable, but they weren't like this. With him, there was that special immediate feeling when we met, which I know I keep repeating, but it is the sole reason I just don't have understanding or closure. This guy admits that he doesn't understand what it is he wasn't feeling.

 

I don't think I'll ever find out the real reason why, just time will make me not care anymore. My gut tells me that he is scared of truly committing, of losing his "freedom"; hence keeping his profile open. And it makes sense, because right before he broke up with me was when HE was upping the contact, the intimacy, etc.

 

Anyway, thanks for your insight.

[zengirl]

Except if good sex is part of what you know you want, then sex doesn't get in the way, it's part of the process of figuring out what you want.

 

Chemically, it gets in the way of determining the other things, though. Good sex is part of what I want, but I like to let my logical brain do its thing while it's still working at peak pre-love drugs. That's just me.

 

That said, if "good sex" is your #1 priority in a mate, what you say is probably true. But I don't see that lasting.

[logano]

I think I got it! This is what I just posted in another forum:

 

This is all so fascinating but also strange because I had never even heard of this syndrome until I read about it - literally - this morning. And then i see this thread! I highly recommend the book "Mars and Venus on a Date" by John Gray. For me, it has helped me to understand why the guy I was dating dumped me out of nowhere. It still really hurts, but with understanding I can move on. Phew.

I posted about this elsewhere on the site, and I kept arguing with my friends and disagreeing with posters about why it happened because nothing rang true. THIS Grass is Greener Syndrome totally makes all the pieces fit!

- his first wife and him rarely had sex, and led very separate lives. They were in therapy for a year until he found out that that entire time she had been cheating on him.

- his last relationship was with someone who completely depended on him: she moved herself in, quit her job and announced he would take care of her. She absolutely depended on him for everything, he had complete faith that she would never cheat. The exact opposite of his ex wife! He broke up with her when the pressure to marry her became too much and that highlighted the fact that they weren't intellectually compatible, she was a hermit (he's very social), and she didn't like his friends. According to him, she was sweet and they had fun. That's it.

_ so then I come around and everything is going fantastically. Amazing. And then out of nowhere he says he feeling aren't progressing. I emailed him for an explanation and he honestly tried to, but admitted he couldn't. He just felt he should be feeling something that he wasn't. Everything was contradictory: his actions, the way he treated me, the way we communicated, the best sex ever and then...it's over.

- In the book he describes how when a couple moves from stage one of attraction to stage two of uncertainty, men can see there feelings of doubt as a sign to end things, when really it is a sign to give the relationship a chance

Just thought I would share.

[bluenightowl]

- In the book he describes how when a couple moves from stage one of attraction to stage two of uncertainty, men can see there feelings of doubt as a sign to end things, when really it is a sign to give the relationship a chance

Just thought I would share.

 

hmm. don't we all have questions of uncertainty, but no man I know who is super attracted to a woman would ever end it. I know men being just the opposite who should end things. I see lots of men who don't see the relationship potential but love the sex, so never end things until she breaks and realizes she is being used sadly.

[logano]

hmm. don't we all have questions of uncertainty, but no man I know who is super attracted to a woman would ever end it. I know men being just the opposite who should end things. I see lots of men who don't see the relationship potential but love the sex, so never end things until she breaks and realizes she is being used sadly.

Well, you must only know extremely healthy men who have all managed to subvert their basic survival instincts. Wow. And your marriage (I assume you are married given the type of men you know) must be ideal - what is your secret?

I feel sorry for Dr. Gray, who apparently has wasted decades studying men and women only to be disproven by...you.

 

You got this snarky reply when you negatively responded to my posting. It was unnecessary for you try and instill insecurity in my newfound knowledge. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain or learn from your comment. Nothing. It was a thinly disguised means for you to feel superior. You failed.

[bluenightowl]

Well, you must only know extremely healthy men who have all managed to subvert their basic survival instincts. Wow. And your marriage (I assume you are married given the type of men you know) must be ideal - what is your secret?

I feel sorry for Dr. Gray, who apparently has wasted decades studying men and women only to be disproven by...you.

 

You got this snarky reply when you negatively responded to my posting. It was unnecessary for you try and instill insecurity in my newfound knowledge. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain or learn from your comment. Nothing. It was a thinly disguised means for you to feel superior. You failed.

 

whoa. no, it was not meant to make me feel superior at all or you inferior. I'm learning as much as all of us. It was a bit of a challenging comment, I admit, but based in what I have observed. You shared those comments, so I'm simply challenging them.

 

Actually I think the opposite. I don't think extremely healthy men stick in relationships just for sex if they want a LTR, but my point was you do see people do this. Actually we should remember that marriage is an invention of humans. Basic procreation instincts and passing of genes might be more about survival than marriage at the most basic level.

 

That said, I think its good to challenge anyone including people like Dr. Gray. if that is indeed his point of view, I don't know. I suspect it a bit more complex that what we are both discussing because I have read one of his books a while ago and quite liked it.

[logano]

Thank you very much for your clarification.

I'm also learning, as I was with my ex for 16 yrs and therefore never really dated. But I've become a fast learner! I talk to my friends, go on this board, and read the self-help books. Everyone (both "experts" and regular people) have different things to say, and I agree it is good to challenge them, but based on all the books I have read (which I was previously dead-set against reading), my experiences thus far, and the experiences of both my friends and strangers (this forum), I have learned that there are some common truisms. I admit I pay slightly less attention to people's observations than to specific facts (he said this, I did that, etc.), as we are all so subjective when it comes to seeing ourselves and others. I am doing all this to learn the best "way to date" so I don't inadvertently jeopardize what could be a great relationship. And, interestingly enough, I've learned a lot about my marriage. By that I mean things that happened early on that while they weren't problems, were very early precursors to to things that much later led to problems.

Anyway, thanks again for your explanation and best of luck to you!

Logan

[bluenightowl]

Thank you very much for your clarification.

I'm also learning, as I was with my ex for 16 yrs and therefore never really dated. But I've become a fast learner! I talk to my friends, go on this board, and read the self-help books. Everyone (both "experts" and regular people) have different things to say, and I agree it is good to challenge them, but based on all the books I have read (which I was previously dead-set against reading), my experiences thus far, and the experiences of both my friends and strangers (this forum), I have learned that there are some common truisms. I admit I pay slightly less attention to people's observations than to specific facts (he said this, I did that, etc.), as we are all so subjective when it comes to seeing ourselves and others. I am doing all this to learn the best "way to date" so I don't inadvertently jeopardize what could be a great relationship. And, interestingly enough, I've learned a lot about my marriage. By that I mean things that happened early on that while they weren't problems, were very early precursors to to things that much later led to problems.

Anyway, thanks again for your explanation and best of luck to you!

Logan

 

Would love to hear some of these truisms you have learned and I promise not to critique. I just posted some of mine here

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t294791/

[logano]

This is all from my female point of view for when you are just beginning to see someone.

-- Women should not pursue. Be obviously interested, just don't chase. That means, in the beginning, few if any phone calls/texts/emails.

-- In the beginning, date other men (so definitely don't be having sex with any of them at this point).

-- Don't return his calls/emails/texts right away. Wait a little while, don't be too available.

-- Don't have sex too soon, even when you really want to. Maybe the third date?

-- Don't give too much. Let him give to you, let him win you over.

-- Let him pay for most everything and be very appreciative and gracious.

-- Be your most positive, upbeat self. Don't complain about anything (friends, work, etc.). No one wants to be around a downer.

-- Make it clear that you are a busy person with lots of friends and interests (which you should have anyway) so he doesn't feel that you need him to be your everything. He'll get scared and disappear.

-- Don't be too easy, i.e. don't accept last minute dates.

-- If he ends things, do not have ANY contact with him. Give him the chance to miss you.

-- Don't reveal personal, intimate details for a while. And when you do, focus on what you've learned. Don't be negative.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Well, you must only know extremely healthy men who have all managed to subvert their basic survival instincts. Wow. And your marriage (I assume you are married given the type of men you know) must be ideal - what is your secret?

I feel sorry for Dr. Gray, who apparently has wasted decades studying men and women only to be disproven by...you.

 

You got this snarky reply when you negatively responded to my posting. It was unnecessary for you try and instill insecurity in my newfound knowledge. There is absolutely nothing for me to gain or learn from your comment. Nothing. It was a thinly disguised means for you to feel superior. You failed.

 

Dear logano;

 

I honestly do not believe that bluenightowl posted what they did in order to instill insecurity or to feel superior.

 

I also took your "newfound knowledge" with a grain of salt.

 

The fact that Dr. Gray has a "theory" and years of study about men and women, and books published, does not automatically negate the possibility that the guy you'd dated was simply ... telling you his truth.

 

There is a fine line between learning something useful for yourself, and seeking information or opinions that will bolster your position even if it's not a good position.

 

Sometimes doing that is harmless and even helpful for ones wounded self esteem after a breakup.

 

Sometimes, though, it's not harmless.

 

It's HIGHLY possible that your feelings that he was "the one," etc., were NOT reciprocal, and that things actually were NOT progressing FOR HIM.

 

You explain that, for a man, feeling that things are "not progressing" is a sign that he should give the relationship a chance.

 

What do you think it would feel like, to him, if things REALLY were not progressing for him?

 

I am not saying this to "feel superior." It doesn't make me feel superior to say it.

 

Since you are now back in the dating scene, and evidently looking for a real partner, I think it would benefit you to really LISTEN to what you are being told by a man. Please don't try to re-write history so it conforms to what you want, or to find pop culture books that will feed you explanations the way you want them. This might make you feel better for the short haul, but it will NOT lead you towards a mutually fulfilling relationship with a man who wants to be there as much as you do.

 

It will lead you into more very short term liaisons that you believe are "the real thing" and the man involved believes are flings.

 

Four dates. Forget about him, consider that you might have some learning to do about reading signs and situations in the dating / relationship world, and move on.

[zengirl]

Dear logano;

 

I honestly do not believe that bluenightowl posted what they did in order to instill insecurity or to feel superior.

 

I also took your "newfound knowledge" with a grain of salt.

 

The fact that Dr. Gray has a "theory" and years of study about men and women, and books published, does not automatically negate the possibility that the guy you'd dated was simply ... telling you his truth.

 

I agree with this and everything Mme. Chaucer says. From what you say, it sounds like he's a nice guy who wasn't into it. Why can't that simply be his truth? You were into it, but it wasn't reciprocated. That's a bummer, of course, but it does happen.

 

OP: The rubberband technique you describe above. . . eh, with some people it works and with some it doesn't, but it never makes anyone happy. Not that I've seen. I'll do my Dorothy Parker quote ("The Lady's Reward" described the rubberband technique before dating books existed; it's a poem) thing and say, "And if that made you happy kid/you'd be the first it ever did." Still true today.

[logano]

Thank you, Chaucer.

 

Over the course of my first post here to this one I have documented my feelings and thoughts as they were happening to me and have been making a sincere effort to learn what went wrong and how I can learn from this.

 

The truth is nothing really went wrong: he did really like me and we did have a great time together and he was very respectful from beginning to end (and after) and a bunch of other positive things. My error was in not listening, as you say, when he said his feelings weren't progressing. I didn't want to hear that. I didn't understand why, but I also didn't understand that the why isn't important.

 

Who knows why? And what difference would it make if I knew the reason behind his feelings? Maybe because the grass is greener, he prefers blonds, he misses an ex, he got scared of falling for me or an alien told him I wasn't the one. But I understand now that reason, the why isn't important. What matters is that he just didn't feel it.

 

And what I have been thinking about lately is why I fell so hard when he broke up with me. That shocked me almost as much as the breakup. What does that say about me? A lot of things that are very uncomfortable to admit. One of which is that I was more into the idea of him as a future partner than I was into him as a guy I was dating in the present. So the breakup, for me, occurred on a deep emotional level that wasn't in sync with reality. That's a hard thing to admit, but I hope that I learn and grow from it.

 

I think, for me, having sex too soon with someone I'm really interested in and attracted to is detrimental to the potentiality of a good relationship. I get emotionally attached at a stage when that isn't appropriate. This is just what I am learning about myself.

 

I know that there is more to do.

 

I would like to say that I wasn't using Dr. Gray's theories as a way to convince myself of something that wasn't true. His book is one tool of many (friends, forums, therapy, etc.) that I am learning from. There is a lot in that book that I disagree with, I am by no means a guru, but a lot of it made sense to me. And I gain comfort when something makes sense - no matter how painful.

 

When my husband wanted a separation after 10 yrs of marriage when I was pg I absolutely wanted to know why! And I finally did understand. It almost killed me, but understanding helped.

 

But as I say above, in this situation the why doesn't matter. Four dates. It wasn't there for him. His loss. I'm moving on. Hopefully wiser.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Logano,

 

It really sounds like you have a lot of insight about yourself and that you are being honest with yourself, so I am quite sure that you'll be fine and that you'll ultimately end up in a relationship that is what you want.

 

I would suggest that you keep flexible about your set of "rules" that you posted. Many times, people forge rules as they go, depending upon the person they're with.

 

You are so right about how all the reasons "why" really don't matter. Even if the Dr Gray explanation is dead on for your situation - it really doesn't matter. Because, you DON'T want to be with a guy who responds to the hotter/colder, waxing / waning, move forward / retreat nature of forging a relationship by ... leaving. It would not bode well for the future. And it could just be a matter of timing, and also, I would like to say that you probably connected with a very decent guy there since he DID tell you "his truth" pretty early rather than letting you move on like a couple for a long time before his detachment.

 

I'm really glad to hear that you've taken another look at your stance on when it's time to start having sex. Earlier in this thread, you seemed a little adamant and defensive about your position on it. I think that people having sex whenever they feel like it is NOT morally wrong or anything like that, but I also feel that many of us are not taking proper care of ourselves when we do go there quickly. If a relationship between you and a guy is on its way to being a lasting and solid bond, neither of you will be too put out by taking some time before getting sexually intimate.

 

Your husband of 10 years told you he wanted a separation when you were pregnant? That must have been devastating. How long ago was that? Are you healed?

 

Good luck, and I hope you have a positive "journey" in your dating life, and learn a lot, and ultimately end up with a relationship where you can grow, thrive, love and trust.