peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) So, I met this guy 14 months ago on a support forum. I always refrained from talking to people of the opposite sex privately there, but after reading a post of his that was very touching and very close to home, I sent him a private message to say I could relate (I could not say why in the open forum) and to tell him to hang in there. One private message, turned into two, then ten, then a whole bunch, and we became very good friends. I felt a connection with him in many ways, but in a brother-sister way. We are both married, and both married very young. Things have been sad for years in both of our marriages, and yet, we keep trying to make things better, despite their neglect, selfishness and indifference. So I would be rooting for him on my end, and he rooting for me on his, sincerely happy every time the other spouse would make any tiny attempt to make our friend happy. Well, because the inevitable happened when people of the opposite sex talk together for hours everyday, have compatible personalities and are psychically attracted to the other: things moved on from brotherly-sisterly friendship, to an emotional connection with sexual elements to it. So yeah, to call a spade a spade, an affair. We talk everyday by phone, video call and email. Our shortest conversations are 1 hour long, and the first and last thing we do in the day, is to check on the other. Have been doing this for the past year. We have both said the L word several times, but are so afraid to ruin our friendship that we don't bring it up the next day. Forgot to mention that we live 5,500 miles apart. He has college age kids, and I have little kids. I was in his country not long ago for unrelated reasons, and we of course talked many times about the possibility of meeting. However, because we know we will have sex if we ever see each other, and then never be able to stay apart, we did not. We were both sad that we lost the opportunity to at least meet and hug such a dear friend, and yet, we knew it was for wise thing to do. Nothing could work between us because of our circumstances anyway... We still do care about the happiness of the other, and still do get excited for the other when their spouse tries. And yet, we have this platonic thing going, where we NEED to talk to the other daily and have done everything sexual one can do from afar. We are careful not to say the L word anymore, but there is no need: the feelings are there and are mutual. I know this whole situation is messed up and confusing, and my head spins sometimes when I think about it. We have tried NOT talking anymore two times before, but we barely made it past 24 hours. It is maddening sometimes knowing this won't go anywhere, and that this is all we will ever have. Even though we see and talk to each other everyday, it feel like science fiction: each in their own dimension, never being able to meet. Sometimes it crosses my mind that we'd better stop, because DUH, we are freaking cheating. Most times however, the thought of having him gone away from my life is unbearable, and I am ok with keeping things like this indefinitely. We have talked about a time when things have changed in our lives and "what ifs"... but it is such a far away and unlikely future, that it makes it painful to dream. I m not sure what I am asking... I just wanted to talk to somebody about all this. Please be gentle.... Edited August 23, 2011 by peachypie
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Yes, I know that, and I knew this would be brought up. I have friends who have BTDT, and it has been awful how they were conned. I know! I am very much aware of this because I have seen it happened to 2 dear friends of mine. It was very heartbreaking. However, for reasons I can't discuss here because it it could cost his high profile career, I do know for a fact that he is who he is. Just for sake of the argument, can you guys believe me on this? Peachie.........why are you doing this to yourself? There is no future there realistically, right? Sounds like torture to me. If you are found out, it could have some severe repercussions. I know it could.... :-( No there is no future. I also know that as horrible as my husband can be, it is not right on him that I have feeling for someone else... It is just that I can't imagine having this friend less in my life than what I already do now. Edited August 23, 2011 by peachypie
lilypoo Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I can sort of understand where you are coming from, I posted on here myself last night about a connection with someone from work, it is a horrible situation to be in, but one of the things I did write on my own post was that, despite all what he has told me about his poor relationship, if it was so bad, why was he still there, he has no children, is not married, the only tie is the house...My point is is that something is making him stay...which applies to you and this man too, however I really do understand the bond that is there, the connection, the intensity of it all, my situation is driving me insane, good luck in your life x
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 The kids The distance The jobs The church 15 years of marriage for me. 21 for him.
lilypoo Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Completely understand, although, the number of years you have been married is irrelevent if you are unhappy, the children sense when parents are not happy and it is unhealthy for all...I dont know what is wrong in your marriage but is it not something you can work on? Life is so short, you should be happy, you deserve that at least, thats the way I think anyway, nothing is out of reach, if you really want something you can get it, just depends on how much you want it...I hope my optimistic view doesnt offend, its just the way I see things
TurningTables Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Hello peachy. First off, Id like to say Im sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I really feel for you and what has to happen in the future for you to be alright. When you communicate with someone online, it seems that you have may have found your soulmate/best friend/love. However, when you get in person, things change. Its easy to sit behind a computer screen ( even via web cam) and be anyone. You are missing their body language, tone of voice, eye contact, etc. You have not lived this thing IRL. You really dont know that he is really this person he claims to be unless you are around him for awhile. In saying that, I think you know what you need to do. Its time to say goodbye. You even said it yourself in your own post. Nothing good can come from this whole situation. My suggestion is to have a conversation with this guy. You need to tell him that this isnt good for either of you, then go to NC cold turkey. Its going to hurt for a little while and its hard as h*ll, but the longer you are in it, the better you should feel. Sometimes when we are out of our "own" way, things become very clear what we should do. After you cut contact, my other suggestion is to figure out if you want to continue with you M, then seek IC or MC depending which road you choose. Focus on your life and your children. They will thank you for it in the end. You deserve so much better than this. Best wishes.
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 This is a classical addiction. If you had a brain scan with the right neuro-pharmaceutical your brain would look identical to the brain of a cocaine addict. This has been shown more than once. The only way to treat addiction is by withdrawal and in a relationship that mean absolute no contact. NC is brutal at the onset and is associated with severe withdrawal symptoms. However, there is no other way. Your post also shows that affair relationships tend to have a much higher obsessive component than when two free people date in broad daylight. Read and heard it all that before. I agree with some of it, but disagree with the rest Thank you for your opinion though Interestingly it is quite likely you have built huge walls around you since the affair and your husband probably has no clue as to what is going on. You have probably become distant and in response he is more distant. These things are subconscious, so he does not have a clue. Funny you mention walls.... If anyone has any walls around themselves, it is my husband. I have been trying to break them down and reach through to his heart for 15 years, and have not stopped -- not even since the affair. If your marriage is not healthy you are 50% responsible for that. I suspect you do not meet the needs of your H and he does not meet your own needs. If you and H have lousy sex it must be because both you are bad at it. Most very good lovers don't have that problem. See what I mean? That is true in many cases, but not all. And the thing about the sex is a very lame example, I am sorry to say. I am generous, passionate and wild in the bedroom. My husband could take it or leave it, and refuses to spend any time on me. In all these years, I can count in one hand the times he pleasured me. I am open, talk about my needs, have bought books, don't make him feel like he needs to guess. But hey, that has got to be my fault too, right? I would like you to try to see your situation from the outside. You fell in love with a bunch of words in the PM and after that everything else was justified and rationalized. Except that I did not fall in love with him then. We were friends for many months before any feelings developed. How am I justifying or rationalizing anything? I never said that I am proud of any of this. I never met OM because we both knew it would be a bad idea. I am still trying to reach my husband, with no avail and I am not going anywhere. I just feel lost and confused, sad about the whole thing. IN reality, you are in love with a fantasy. For all we know this man could be 10 times worse than your H. Yes! It is all binary code on a screen, the guy is a pedophile and con artist and I go around falling in love with anybody who talks to me for on the internet. It is all in my imagination Thank you for pointing it out to me!
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Thank you for the messages. I will read the thread in question
SoMovinOn Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Peachy... That you don't see each other in person and have not have sex really doesn't change anything here, but I can tell you already know that. It's an affair, with all the same potential repercussions. The simple truth is, your marriage cannot get better if you are not in it 100%. While you are involved with this other man, you're not. Regardless of this other man, you need to think about what you want, make a decision and commit to it. If you decide you want to stay married, you have to let go of the other man. It's that simple. Hard to do, but simple.
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Wondering one thing: Had my story been "I know this guy from work" instead of "I know this guy online" what would people be telling me? Yes, I know I am a disloyal lying cow for being unfaithful to my husband like this. I hate myself everyday. I was not raised like that. What I don't understand is how people fall in love everyday in eHarmony and such, and nobody bats an eye. However, because the relationship I am in is illicit, then it has got to be lies, a scam or fantasy. The main problem here is the impossibility of it all, and the fact we are being unfaithful. The online part has too many variables, and is every evolving in this day and age, so it is beside the point.
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 SoMovinOn You are absolutely right bout everything I knew it needed to end all along, but I pushed the thought away. The truth has been bothering me more and more lately, which is why I came here for help. I know people will laugh at me and call me a hypocrite, but I am a Christian. I have never felt so lonely and away from God in my whole life, and it is too much to deal with sometimes :-( I know what to do. I guess I just wanted to hear it from other people's mouths, too It may be the push I need to do right thing, once and for all...
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Before any of this happened, I was looking into divorce. My husband made it clear that he did not feel much anymore, so I stopped hoping. Turns out, I would lose my right to stay in this country if I did, and lose contact with my kids (or keep them away from their dad) permanently. I want to divorce as soon as the youngest is in college, for ME, not because of a replacement husband. But it will be years before I can do that. I feel trapped. I know it is sad and pathetic that I am in this situation. What's is more pathetic, before this, my life was just as bad, but for different reasons. Maybe that's why I have not ended this. I have been afraid of going back to what it was like before.
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Pierre I am sorry I was sarcastic. Thank you for taking your time to reply. I know I am not deserving of any compassion. I have chosen this path in my own, and must leave with the consequences.
jwi71 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Before any of this happened, I was looking into divorce. My husband made it clear that he did not feel much anymore, so I stopped hoping. Turns out, I would lose my right to stay in this country if I did, and lose contact with my kids (or keep them away from their dad) permanently. I want to divorce as soon as the youngest is in college, for ME, not because of a replacement husband. But it will be years before I can do that. I feel trapped. I know it is sad and pathetic that I am in this situation. What's is more pathetic, before this, my life was just as bad, but for different reasons. Maybe that's why I have not ended this. I have been afraid of going back to what it was like before. What country are you in?
seren Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 PP, Life is far too short to stay with someone you don't love, it is also far too short to compromise your values (you said you are a Christian and struggling) for anyone or anything. it sounds like an escape from your everyday life and althugh it is stating the obvious I am sure you must know that your marriage has a cat in hell's chance of succedding if you don't put the same energies into it as you do the online A. How would yu feel if it was your H doing what you are doing? If you would have no issue with that, it's time to leave. Are you sure you will not have residency rights in the country you are living in? Most countries in the EU would allow someone to stay if they had been resident for a long time or if their children were born in that country ..... I am thinking the Human Rights Act, as unpopular as it is, it can be useful in instances like this. Leaving is hard, starting again is hard, but staying for convinience when the other doesn't know that is the game plan is cruel. Is the OM thinking of leaving his marriage?
jwi71 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Maybe your best solution then is to sit your H down and talk about the both of you staying M for legal/technical reasons and each pursuing a separate romantic life on your own. It's not an A if you and your both agree to see others. But, honestly, all that does is play semantics and does little to change your life. So, either make a change or develop coping skills for the current situation. Better yet, how do you want this to end?
TurningTables Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Wondering one thing: Had my story been "I know this guy from work" instead of "I know this guy online" what would people be telling me? The advice would be the same. My suggestion would be to go back and read some other posts from others who are in EA/PA. It might give you some insight as to where most posters stand on A's. Yes, I know I am a disloyal lying cow for being unfaithful to my husband like this. I hate myself everyday. I was not raised like that. Peachy, dont call yourself names! You are not a disloyal lying cow! People make mistakes. From what Ive read throughtout your whole thread is that your life isnt exactly what you want it to be. Maybe this is the time for you to start changing things. Its not easy, I should know. But you can do it. Take back your control. What I don't understand is how people fall in love everyday in eHarmony and such, and nobody bats an eye. However, because the relationship I am in is illicit, then it has got to be lies, a scam or fantasy. If you read on LS, most MM/MW do end up lying. Even the ones who end up with their AP, have found nontruths. I was not saying that the feelings you feel/felt for this guy isnt real. In no way did I mean to minimize your feelings. I am sorry that you took it that way. Im sure that you can connect with someone online. Hey, we do that on here everyday! My point was that when most of these R's are tested IRL, they dont work out. I was just cautioning you to be careful. Some people are not always what they seem. Honestly, how do you know that his M is unhappy other than what he has told you? The main problem here is the impossibility of it all, and the fact we are being unfaithful. The online part has too many variables, and is every evolving in this day and age, so it is beside the point. I have answered in the above.Like I said before, this is a wake up call for you. Its time for a change. You need to get into IC and have someone help you figure out what you need to do next. I think you have taken the first steps to recovery by posting here and you know what you are doing isnt helping YOU. I also feel that you have dodged a bullet by stopping it before it became a PA. There is still hope. Keep posting. I am sure that more will weight in. Edited August 23, 2011 by TurningTables left something out
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 PP, Life is far too short to stay with someone you don't love, it is also far too short to compromise your values (you said you are a Christian and struggling) for anyone or anything. it sounds like an escape from your everyday life and althugh it is stating the obvious I am sure you must know that your marriage has a cat in hell's chance of succedding if you don't put the same energies into it as you do the online A. Yes, I know that... One thing is knowing, the other is doing it How would yu feel if it was your H doing what you are doing? If you would have no issue with that, it's time to leave. I have told him before that I wish he would cheat on me, then I would not be the bad guy if I divorce him. I know it sounds bad, but it is true. Are you sure you will not have residency rights in the country you are living in? Most countries in the EU would allow someone to stay if they had been resident for a long time or if their children were born in that country ..... I am thinking the Human Rights Act, as unpopular as it is, it can be useful in instances like this. Yes, it is a possibility. Maybe I am afraid, more than anything. My husband was my first boyfriend and we married as teens. We have 3+ little kids. It is all terrifying. Leaving is hard, starting again is hard, but staying for convinience when the other doesn't know that is the game plan is cruel. Is the OM thinking of leaving his marriage? He wants to leave when his youngest moves out. It was his plan before we even started talking. I don't like thinking about it to be honest, as I am never going to be an option anyway, and he deserves someone much better than who he has Maybe your best solution then is to sit your H down and talk about the both of you staying M for legal/technical reasons and each pursuing a separate romantic life on your own. It's not an A if you and your both agree to see others. Morally wrong, us being Christians and all. He works with a church btw, so he could get fired if that came out. I know... what I am doing is even worse, but still. He would never agree to that. So, either make a change or develop coping skills for the current situation. I have very bad coping skills as it is... I was thinking of joining a 12 step program after a friend told me how much it helped her. Better yet, how do you want this to end? I have been living in the now. So selfish, I know... But it is because I did not want to think about "so, what next?" Now I'm every reply you've written since, you've beaten yourself up with more derogatory words than I can spell right now. Go back a read them. Do you see what this is doing to your self-esteem already and you haven't even held this guys hand IRL? I hope you see this. I know.... I tried posting about this somewhere else, and was called everything: slut, scumbag, terrible mother, selfish wench... Like I did not feel bad enough already. And yes, I feel terrible for interfering in HIS marriage. No wife deserves some strange woman in the internet stealing uncountable hours away from her husband. I know first hand that being in a miserable marriage sucks. But having an affair (EA or PA) multiplies that misery exponentially. Things your H does that were over-lookable "til the kids grow up"' date=' make you want to vomit now (or drive your car off a cliff). Now you can't possibly see hanging on one more day much less til last HS graduation. Why? Not bc your H is any more miserable than he was before. But because you are.[/quote'] Those are very good points indeed! Thank you. Misery DOES NOT like company. (Unless of course your posting here at LS b/c you feel like your the only idiot in the world, but are relieve beyond words that your not). Then I love company. LinD Thank you!
SoleMate Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Like lost-in-d says, you have been beating yourself up way too hard with cruel, destructive words, like "cow". You even said that you "know [you] don't deserve any compassion". Actually, you DO deserve a lot of compassion and I believe you are getting a lot here. In fact, your verbal self-abuse is so severe that I think it even merits MORE attention than the EA with a MM (which normally would attract my advice). I strongly recommend getting into IC to help you understand where your self-hatred is coming from, and correct it. Once you can again be a trustworthy friend and adviser to YOURSELF, then you will be in a better situation to address the EA (which must end, as it is too risky) and the M (which may or may not be fixable). I believe that women in your situation (which I identify as low self-esteem, possibly complicated by a neglectful husband) are especially vulnerable to MM, most of whom definitely are con artists with varying levels of skill and diligence in their con games. You wouldn't sip from his cup of poisonous attention, if you could reach for your own more healthful quaff. BTW, do you see the irony in saying that your H is selfish, neglectful and indifferent? One might say that you are doing the same.
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 I have answered in the above.Like I said before, this is a wake up call for you. Its time for a change. You need to get into IC and have someone help you figure out what you need to do next. I think you have taken the first steps to recovery by posting here and you know what you are doing isnt helping YOU. I also feel that you have dodged a bullet by stopping it before it became a PA. There is still hope. Keep posting. I am sure that more will weight in. Thank you all for your posts. A lot of it is not easy to hear, but it needs saying. I am humbled by the kindness you have all shown. This is so hard :-(
jwi71 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 I have told him before that I wish he would cheat on me, then I would not be the bad guy if I divorce him. That's odd. Didn't you earlier say that D means you have to leave the country? The laws where you immigrated to allow you stay after a D if your H cheats? Are there any other exceptions to that law you can use to get D and remain? Seems a bit incongruent to me.
geejayess Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Peachypie I don't think you are undeserving of compassion. You have done enough self-castigation without giving others permission to do it to you as well. I hope you can find a way to happiness, for yourself, either in or out of your marriage. People seems to think it is so cut and dried, "if your marriage is unhappy-get divorced! or else you stay in it for the children..." I've always been of the mind that children learn what they see; if they see their parents are always unhappy then that is what they will think is the norm. You owe it to yourself and your children to be happy. I hope you can find a way to that without having to lose custody. Stay strong and pray for the clarity in your decision making....
Author peachypie Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 That's odd. Didn't you earlier say that D means you have to leave the country? The laws where you immigrated to allow you stay after a D if your H cheats? Are there any other exceptions to that law you can use to get D and remain? Seems a bit incongruent to me. Because it was said before I did my homework. Besides,it was not meant to make sense. It is stuff I said with tears rolling down my face. My point was, I am tired and don't feel much anymore.
jwi71 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Because it was said before I did my homework. Besides,it was not meant to make sense. It is stuff I said with tears rolling down my face. My point was, I am tired and don't feel much anymore. Well, you succeeded in not making sense. Because you first said you had done your homework and D meant deportation to you. Then you subsequently posted that you wish your H would cheat so he would be the bad guy in a D. It seems odd you to say the latter AFTER learning you get deported in a D. And then a, I shall call classic, diversionary line about tired and feeling numb. Hmmmm..... Something is rotten Denmark.
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