Why do ALL guys CHEAT?

[Nikki Sahagin]

Not in my experience. Outgoing men with stated wants tend to be more satisfied sexually in my experience and are less likely to be frustarted perverts or weirdos - although I suppose it depends on your definition of a pervert or a weirdo

 

I meant that you tend to get a lot of weird, pervy men who are very brave and hit on all women they can. They would be considered 'sexual and brave' but they aren't what a lot of girls are looking for.

 

My friends and I have agreed that they do this because they genuinely have nothing to lose, whereas men that actually DO have something to offer can actually doubt themselves.

[Emilia]

I can't understand what is contradictory about wanting a connection in order to have a relationship. Otherwise everyone would just be with everyone and anyone (heck some people are).

 

Most men and women WANT a connection. That's what sparks the relationship into life. And a connection isn't aggression - its having fun with someone, a witty conversation, sharing a meaningful or random experience, getting along.

 

Without a connection, there is nothing seperating the relationship from any friendship or meeting.

 

agree 100%

[Ginger Beer]

Pretty much. Of course, not all women are attracted to men like that, many do like a guy to be really flirtatious and sexually bold. But those guys can also be the cheating type. It seems to be a vicious cycle I guess.

 

Yeah, which is fair enough, but just don't complain when you chase those types of men then be surprised when it goes tits up.

 

Not at you just in general.

[Emilia]

I meant that you tend to get a lot of weird, pervy men who are very brave and hit on all women they can. They would be considered 'sexual and brave' but they aren't what a lot of girls are looking for.

 

My friends and I have agreed that they do this because they genuinely have nothing to lose, whereas men that actually DO have something to offer can actually doubt themselves.

 

There is some truth in that but I think those guys come across a bit strange and you can tell. The men that come across friendly but a bit sexually aggressive (ie balance it 'right') and outgoing are usually normal

[Ginger Beer]

I can't understand what is contradictory about wanting a connection in order to have a relationship. Otherwise everyone would just be with everyone and anyone (heck some people are).

 

Most men and women WANT a connection. That's what sparks the relationship into life. And a connection isn't aggression - its having fun with someone, a witty conversation, sharing a meaningful or random experience, getting along.

 

Without a connection, there is nothing seperating the relationship from any friendship or meeting.

 

True. But you can form a connection with someone without acting like how I described before.

[thatone]

I can't understand what is contradictory about wanting a connection in order to have a relationship. Otherwise everyone would just be with everyone and anyone (heck some people are).

 

Most men and women WANT a connection. That's what sparks the relationship into life. And a connection isn't aggression - its having fun with someone, a witty conversation, sharing a meaningful or random experience, getting along.

 

Without a connection, there is nothing seperating the relationship from any friendship or meeting.

 

think about it. you want a monogamous relationship with a man who can get multiple women. what do you have to offer such a man that his other options do not?

 

your criteria alone are unrealistic. there are no monogamous players out there, but that's what you want. so if you're unrealistic about that, what else are you unrealistic about?

 

when your unrealistic expectations turn into nagging/complaining/bitterness/distance the man with options will simply pluck another option from the trees and move along.

 

this is the cycle you'll repeat until you either realize that your fantasy will never become reality, or you get over your fantasy, one or the other. but on the plus side, you won't be alone, there are a multitude of women out there who are in the exact same boat with you.

[zengirl]

I liked that the someone had you examine your meaning of the word "decent." I would say "all the decent men who approach me" absolutely do not cheat. If they did cheat, or were interested in cheating, they would immediately become not decent!

 

The nicer, more relationship-oriented guys absolutely do still approach girls, but they do it differently, are more cautious and more into looking for signals from women in general than the players/cheaters (playing or cheating; that's all a numbers game, really), and show interest differently. Plenty of lovely men can be direct, don't get me wrong, but for them, it's the rarity: it's "Oh, that day, I met HER, I finally got up the nerve to go up to her---I never do that!" (which is what some girls want to believe every approach is, and those are probably less than 10% of all approaches---a guy approaching you without any signals almost always means he's cold-calling; once in awhile, it means it was one of those rare days he got up the nerve where he wouldn't normally, but even then: he doesn't KNOW you yet, so it has nothing to do with you so stop with the Twilight special complex you somehow have, seriously, as it's how you (this is all general you, not directed at the OP specifically) keep meeting jerks /rant).

 

Generally, the way lovely, nice, decent, relationship-oriented men approach is they actually get to know you first, or they wait for signals, or they are simply far more subtle. They will eventually, if they feel they have a shot, be more direct. (And the men who can NEVER be direct are just as bad as the aforementioned cold-callers; the key is the middle path.) And, if those guys know you're interested, they will run with it. I'm not saying they're wimpy losers who want a girl to do all the work. No; they just don't want to cold-call every damn girl they meet is all, and they want to know you're potentially interested/available too.

 

Anyway, all of this is why I don't get why more women don't just signify their interest directly. It's really very easy: a guy who's into it and a "good guy" will run with it and pursue like the dickens, a guy who's used to cold-calling/pursuing everything that moves will just get cocky and lazy about it, and a guy who's terrified even after you've (clearly---and real "clearly" not crazy girl "clearly" where you're all like, "My feet were totally pointed towards him and I smiled! And I, like, looked at him when he talked to my friend. And I even managed to say "Hi" back when he said it. How could he NOT KNOW I like him, sheesh!" type thing) expressed interest will continue to be terrified and lame. It simplifies everything, I swear.

 

ETA: To the title: I know loads of guys who don't cheat. And most of my male friends are even more appalled by cheating than my female friends----when a male friend of theirs cheats (or participates in cheating), they JUDGE him and HARSHLY. That judgment is less harsh in my circle of female friends, I think, and my only significant friend who engages in cheating---and she's not a cheater in her own relationships but is often "the other woman"---is a woman. That said, my father cheated, and many of my friends (male and female, but more female) have been cheated on, so I'm plenty aware of it happening to and because of both genders. It's not a gender issue; it's a character issue. My friend who's frequently an OW has bad character in that regard (and is never, ever someone I'd recommend any guy I know date), but she has good character in other ways, so I tolerate it.

Edited August 23, 2011 by zengirl

[thatone]

 

Anyway, all of this is why I don't get why more women don't just signify their interest directly. It's really very easy: a guy who's into it and a "good guy" will run with it and pursue like the dickens, a guy who's used to cold-calling/pursuing everything that moves will just get cocky and lazy about it, and a guy who's terrified even after you've (clearly---and real "clearly" not crazy girl "clearly" where you're all like, "My feet were totally pointed towards him and I smiled! And I, like, looked at him when he talked to my friend. And I even managed to say "Hi" back when he said it. How could he NOT KNOW I like him, sheesh!" type thing) expressed interest will continue to be terrified and lame. It simplifies everything, I swear.

 

that makes too much sense.

[somethingsimple]

I have never cheated on any of my girlfriends (3 ltrs). Well, it depends on what you constitute as cheating. Yes, I would flirt, but never to the point where its physical or even to the point of where I'm getting their number. Flirting, just keeps me sane after being in a really long relationship.

 

I don't believe I'm a player, but I generally do not have a problem meeting women. While recently, I do chase women and women chase me, it never really amount to anything but dates, talking, or hookups. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely honest and generally upfront with what I want. Yes, often there is more than one woman involved, but all they need to do is ask and I'll tell them I talk to other people as well.

 

As a person, who has been on both sides of the spectrum I guess. Contrary, to what a lot of people might think, I personally think that having one women that I truly care about is better than a multitude of them.

 

There is plenty of things that having one girl gives than having several does. Such as a connection, a partner, trust, someone I can focus all my emotions to. Having a multitude of women can leave the heart feeling lonely, it takes a special girl to fill that void. I know in a committed healthy relationship, I never plan on cheating. Which is probably why I'm really picky on who I get into relationships with.

[Sanman]

I liked that the someone had you examine your meaning of the word "decent." I would say "all the decent men who approach me" absolutely do not cheat. If they did cheat, or were interested in cheating, they would immediately become not decent!

 

The nicer, more relationship-oriented guys absolutely do still approach girls, but they do it differently, are more cautious and more into looking for signals from women in general than the players/cheaters (playing or cheating; that's all a numbers game, really), and show interest differently. Plenty of lovely men can be direct, don't get me wrong, but for them, it's the rarity: it's "Oh, that day, I met HER, I finally got up the nerve to go up to her---I never do that!" (which is what some girls want to believe every approach is, and those are probably less than 10% of all approaches---a guy approaching you without any signals almost always means he's cold-calling; once in awhile, it means it was one of those rare days he got up the nerve where he wouldn't normally, but even then: he doesn't KNOW you yet, so it has nothing to do with you so stop with the Twilight special complex you somehow have, seriously, as it's how you (this is all general you, not directed at the OP specifically) keep meeting jerks /rant).

 

 

While I am generally not all about the 'women hate nice guys' stuff you see on here, that may be one of those times where I agree with those statements. The problem is that a lot of women don't realize that what they think of as chemistry is often manufactured. I have done so myself with women. It mostly has to do with a guy they find attractive paying attention to them and saying the right things. The guys they don't find attractive or say the right things simply have not mastered the game and don't get considered. The truth is simple...if you find someone else attractive and interesting someone else likely does as well. Most of my friends fall into three groups...monogamous relationship guys who are settling down at my age, players, and those guys that struggle to get a gf. Those who struggle will be loyal as they have a difficult time finding someone. The popular guys will cheat and be selfish because a woman is easily replaced. Those in the middle are what most women are looking for , but much like a good woman are usually taken. At a wedding last weekend I saw this at work. A good number of the guys were taken, so what there was to choose from were mostly players or the guys who are less attractive and struggle with women. There was one average relationship guy who is quite emotionally unavailable and scarred from his last relationship in the mix as well.

[FitChick]

The title of this thread needs to be amended to "Why do all guys I date cheat?"

 

I have a friend who only dates abusive alcoholics. She doesn't consciously choose them, of course. Subconsciously she does. There is something she believes about herself, men and relationships that has her repeating this pattern.

 

If you find yourself consistently dating the same type of person, then you need to look inside yourself for the cause.

[betterdeal]

Maybe they're the only men who'll put up with her crap and vice versa? Everyone I have been involved with was in much the same boat as me spiritually. We all meet people in the same physical and metaphysical space as each other (with exceptions, but generally, it's true). Otherwise, there's no "connection".

[zengirl]

While I am generally not all about the 'women hate nice guys' stuff you see on here, that may be one of those times where I agree with those statements. The problem is that a lot of women don't realize that what they think of as chemistry is often manufactured. I have done so myself with women. It mostly has to do with a guy they find attractive paying attention to them and saying the right things. The guys they don't find attractive or say the right things simply have not mastered the game and don't get considered. The truth is simple...if you find someone else attractive and interesting someone else likely does as well. Most of my friends fall into three groups...monogamous relationship guys who are settling down at my age, players, and those guys that struggle to get a gf. Those who struggle will be loyal as they have a difficult time finding someone. The popular guys will cheat and be selfish because a woman is easily replaced. Those in the middle are what most women are looking for , but much like a good woman are usually taken. At a wedding last weekend I saw this at work. A good number of the guys were taken, so what there was to choose from were mostly players or the guys who are less attractive and struggle with women. There was one average relationship guy who is quite emotionally unavailable and scarred from his last relationship in the mix as well.

 

I think it depends what you mean by chemistry when you say it's manufactured.

 

There is real pheremonal chemistry IMO that cannot be manufactured, even when you really WANT to be attracted to the person and think you should be. I've experienced that.

 

I think the "special complex" definitely hinders some people, usually women, and often the ones who pick either loners or bad boys or whatever. That's what I referred to as the Twilight complex. (He's a loner and a "misunderstood" bad boy! Oh, gawrsh, and Bella is so super special. Doesn't everybody want to be Bella. Gross. Though my generation hates Twilight even though many do the same silly crap -- on a different scale -- the tweens do. I find it amusing.)

 

But I certainly don't want a guy who's ONLY loyal because he has trouble "getting a girl." That's lame. I want a guy who's loyal and doesn't cheat because he is loyal and doesn't cheat. It's not about competition at all. Sanman, you remind me of this guy I was talking to the other day with my BF. We were trying to tell him that "competition" is a socialized mindset and that humankind is actually genetically predisposed---or was for a long time; hard to say now---towards cooperation and that there's essentially another way. At one point, the guy said the only reason someone who was angry wouldn't murder the other person were consequences, and we were both just stunned. No. Most people who don't murder others don't do it because of jail time---they don't murder people because they understand murdering people is wrong, hurtful, bad, and not the kind of life they want to lead. This is the same with cheating.

 

I don't want to know people who would only not murder someone because of jail time, and I don't want to date someone who would only not cheat on me because he's afraid I'd find out and break up with him. I want someone who has a moral compass. (Luckily, it's never been hard to find such a thing, and the current BF has a moral compass that makes even me want to be a better person---it's awesome.)

[Chicago_Guy]

Second, now that I know a lot of guys do hit on girls like that even though he has a serious gf, I cant trust guys at alll. I get easily suspicious and all that....

 

Sometimes women mistakenly think that guys are hitting on them. I once started talking to a fat girl at my gym whom I was not interested in at all and she developed a big crush on me because she thought that I was hitting on her even though I never wanted to go out with her.

 

I also don't think that a man is cheating unless he is dating, having sex with, or at least kissing, or attempting to do any of these things, with another woman.

[Sanman]

I think it depends what you mean by chemistry when you say it's manufactured.

 

There is real pheremonal chemistry IMO that cannot be manufactured, even when you really WANT to be attracted to the person and think you should be. I've experienced that.

 

I think the "special complex" definitely hinders some people, usually women, and often the ones who pick either loners or bad boys or whatever. That's what I referred to as the Twilight complex. (He's a loner and a "misunderstood" bad boy! Oh, gawrsh, and Bella is so super special. Doesn't everybody want to be Bella. Gross. Though my generation hates Twilight even though many do the same silly crap -- on a different scale -- the tweens do. I find it amusing.)

 

But I certainly don't want a guy who's ONLY loyal because he has trouble "getting a girl." That's lame. I want a guy who's loyal and doesn't cheat because he is loyal and doesn't cheat. It's not about competition at all. Sanman, you remind me of this guy I was talking to the other day with my BF. We were trying to tell him that "competition" is a socialized mindset and that humankind is actually genetically predisposed---or was for a long time; hard to say now---towards cooperation and that there's essentially another way. At one point, the guy said the only reason someone who was angry wouldn't murder the other person were consequences, and we were both just stunned. No. Most people who don't murder others don't do it because of jail time---they don't murder people because they understand murdering people is wrong, hurtful, bad, and not the kind of life they want to lead. This is the same with cheating.

 

I don't want to know people who would only not murder someone because of jail time, and I don't want to date someone who would only not cheat on me because he's afraid I'd find out and break up with him. I want someone who has a moral compass. (Luckily, it's never been hard to find such a thing, and the current BF has a moral compass that makes even me want to be a better person---it's awesome.)

 

 

By manufactured I mean more of your twilight complex. Guys who are good know how to manufacture such a feeling. A lawyer buddy of mine was at this wedding (6'3", 3 piece suit, doing his best mad men impression down to the side part and Manhattan in his hand) and women swoon at his looks and words. Women often feel special that the good looking lawyer, doctor, investment banker picked them when the truth is the dream guy is a player and knows how to make a woman feel good. I have done this as well. I've dated women I was not sure about but were falling for me as I know how to make a woman feel special and wanted. It is quite formulaic. I choose not to take advantage woman when they feel this way as I feel guilty and immoral. I have plenty of friends who have no such issue.

 

It isn't about a guy who has trouble getting women not leaving simply because it is harder. It is that he appreciates what he has that much more. Those who can get women easily just don't care as much. They take it for granted. So what if they get caught cheating? On to the next one and for the most sought after men there will always be another one.

 

As to your last point, I think that there both sides of your argument are correct. There are those that can be guided by their own moral compass and ideals for the betterment of society. The rest, though, need religion/rule of law/some mechanism of social control or structure to do the right thing. Look at the recent riots in London. Many people are willing to break the law if given the opportunity to not be caught. Of course, there are others who feel it is morally wrong.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Sanman

[Nikki Sahagin]

think about it. you want a monogamous relationship with a man who can get multiple women. what do you have to offer such a man that his other options do not?

 

your criteria alone are unrealistic. there are no monogamous players out there, but that's what you want. so if you're unrealistic about that, what else are you unrealistic about?

 

when your unrealistic expectations turn into nagging/complaining/bitterness/distance the man with options will simply pluck another option from the trees and move along.

 

this is the cycle you'll repeat until you either realize that your fantasy will never become reality, or you get over your fantasy, one or the other. but on the plus side, you won't be alone, there are a multitude of women out there who are in the exact same boat with you.

 

Where did I say I want a man who can get multiple women? Technically everyone can get multiple men or multiple women of one kind or another.

 

I also never said or mentioned anywhere that I want a player. I think you are assuming only players can forge connections or create chemistry.

 

I'm confused as to why you believe experiencing chemistry with someone is a 'fantasy'.

[zengirl]

By manufactured I mean more of your twilight complex. Guys who are good know how to manufacture such a feeling.

 

Sure. That feeling is a two-part dynamic, though, and they can only manufacture it in women who buy into the "special complex." Once a girl opts out, she's immune.

 

(And guys who are REALLY good, IMO and IME, want a girl who's immune anyway.)

 

As to your last point, I think that there both sides of your argument are correct. There are those that can be guided by their own moral compass and ideals for the betterment of society. The rest, though, need religion/rule of law/some mechanism of social control or structure to do the right thing. Look at the recent riots in London. Many people are willing to break the law if given the opportunity to not be caught. Of course, there are others who feel it is morally wrong.

 

That's all towards socialization, and we keep trying to socialize people via consequences and it doesn't work out. If we socialized people via cooperation naturally, we'd produce much better people. But that's a broader point. My main point is why would any quality person with a moral compass of their own want someone who was only a good person because they were afraid of consequences. And if you're (general you) NOT a good person, then I frankly kind of hope you only find other NOT good people like you.

[sunshine103]

"If this is happening to you a lot, then maybe it's you. Are you giving off some kind of vibe? How do you dress? How do you act around guys? Do you have a reputation? Are you superficial? Flirt too much?"

 

I think this post is something you should think about and it also sounds like you are desperate to find "Mr. Right" I can't believe every guy you're interested in has a girlfriend.

[GivenUp0083]

I've had many relationships and I've never cheated in any sense of the word (sexually, physically, emotionally) ever in my life.

 

You are just a dumb woman who has poor taste in character.