ksmit Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Essentials: - I'm early 20s, she's late 20s - She's sensitive and insecure like I am - We've been out together 3 times - I have zero dating and little social experience (never kissed, etc). Plagued with general and social anxiety disorders - I've always been sort of a recluse, by choice. Being around people simply takes too much out of me. I know it's a bad thing and need to force myself out more. - Been depressed for years, I cope by avoiding relationships and social encounters. Because she pursued me, I wanted to give her a chance. Anyways, I just happen to like her a lot now and want to hold onto her if I still can because I feel like she's losing interest. The last time we went out for a bite, I treated and was just trying to be fun and a little goofy. I don't know what she was thinking or if she had a good time. I compliment her once or twice and give good eye contact. Conversations are usually simple and shallow (never go in depth with things; usually one topic to the next). I'm thinking she's getting tired of waiting for me to make a move. As much as I'd love to hug and touch her, I haven't yet. I don't know why, but even just friendly touching *feels* wrong so I don't do it. I can't help but think it might come across as weird or intrusive. Now I'm starting to think that NOT touching her this whole time has made her uncomfortable. I'm aware kino is essential for building romantic feelings but any touching is very difficult for me. What can I do at this point to take us to the next level? I'm itching to just be upfront and lay all the cards out. If you're a shy/sensitive girl I'd especially like your input. Thanks all.
DoS Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 If you could assure me that these have been dates and not just friendly outings, then I could assure you that you could get away with giving her a kiss. I know what it's like to be reclusive, shy, and a tad insecure. I can only give you general ideas - a spontaneous kiss on the cheek, or maybe a goodnight kiss if you drive/walk her home. I can't tell you how many times I've been caught up in my own head thinking about some girl and how I want to make a move or ask her out only to have another guy swoop in a start seeing her, start dancing with her, etc. If you like this girl, then by the third date I would say it's safe to try and kiss her. With the confidence of almost guaranteed success, I would say go for it before someone else does and you're left wondering what could have been. And now it's time to man up and make a move.
Author ksmit Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Thanks for the reply. Part of the problem is not knowing whether they are dates or friendly outings. I get so caught up in my own thoughts that I think I'm missing out on body language cues. Last time we went out I felt good about it. But each hour after dropping her off I started getting a bad taste in my mouth and now I wonder if she'll even want to go out again. I suppose that's one way to tell if they were dates - if she doesn't want to go out again. That would mean she was expecting more and I let her down. You say man up and make a move, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Kick up the romance/flirting a notch and see how she responds? Tell her upfront I have feelings for her or that I love everything about her? What would melt an insecure and sensitive girl's heart? I want to say what she's been dying to hear. Thanks a ton.
Professor X Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Ask on her on another date, keep the conversations easy and flowing. Make subtle moves on her like if you're sitting across her than touch her hand from time to time, see if she doesn't pull away etc. Eventually you'll be the one who has to do the move, no-one here will do the kissing for you.. So like DoS said, man up and just try and kiss her at the end of the date.
Author ksmit Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Thanks Professor X. The last 3 times we've been out have been that way. Easy conversations... but I think she's getting bored of it or frustrated I haven't been more romantic/flirty with her. Since I don't even hug her (pitiful I know), when I do (next time!), maybe squeeze in a cheek kiss and tell her I think she's great (or something like that?). I know going in for a kiss would be the bold thing to do, but knowing myself I will not have the nerve to do it until we've already become a little touchy with each other. Keep in mind that all of this is new to me. Keep the helpful replies coming everyone. It's very much appreciated.
DoS Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 So not knowing whether or not they're dates is tricky, something I'm not really sure how to figure out. I suppose if you went to get coffee it could be either, but if you went to dinner (just the two of you), or a movie I'd be fairly confident that it was a date. Like you said, ask her to go out again, assume it's your last chance if she says yes and get to it! And now, how to make a move. It's tricky, I've heard that telling a girl how you feel is not the way to go, and though I don't see the problem with it, I have failed by taking that road. I think that if you're slightly timid (like me), you'll find yourself waiting to make a move for so long that in the end you realize she's leaving and it's too late. Next time you see her give her a hug as a greeting (it's a common and very acceptable gesture, and maybe from someone like you [who doesn't hug often] she'll take it as a positive signal). You could try flirting more aggressively, or as was said touch her hand to see how she responds (I like that one, especially during a movie, and it doesn't require nearly as much courage as the kiss). If the hand works, put your arm around her and see if she gets closer to you, then you know you're good to go for the kiss. I know you asked for what to say to melt her heart, but I really couldn't tell you, even though you gave a description of her. And when that moment comes where you're considering making a move, you need encouragement, so think about this: If I don't do this now, I likely never will, and I'll never know what could've been. Rejection is better than not trying.
Professor X Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Since I don't even hug her (pitiful I know), when I do (next time!), maybe squeeze in a cheek kiss and tell her I think she's great (or something like that?). Sorry, but if you wanna keep her, than you need, after 3 dates of nothing, to go in for a real kiss. And yes, no hugs is kinda pitiful, she must be thinking that you're either gay or not interested in her. If you can't master up the courage than get ready to lose her; I know it's hard, but life's a b1tch and in the end we die.
Cee Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Look into her eyes and don't say anything. You will then want to kiss her because she's so beautiful. And if you are looking at her and not saying anything, she'll know that you are getting ready to kiss her. That's why I kiss my boyfriend because I adore him more than words can say. So I kiss him instead. I know this is truly terrifying, but we have all been there. Repeatedly.
Author ksmit Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Look into her eyes and don't say anything. You will then want to kiss her because she's so beautiful. And if you are looking at her and not saying anything, she'll know that you are getting ready to kiss her. That's very sweet and I'm going to try it. I'm thinking after I hug her (keep close proximity), move my hands to her hips or arms holding her, and just gaze into her eyes for a few seconds. If she's looking me back and her eyes seem to be glowing (or other sign she wants it - hopefully obvious), I'll go for it. Do you spend any time thinking about her intimately or does that make you feel weird as well? Just asking because it might help to get over some of these hangups if you were to visualize the act of kissing her. Not really, but I will try it. I'm thinking that once I can break the ice and we achieve a mutual feeling of romance, things will be much easier. I only don't touch her because I feel like I need some sort of approval first. Just the way I've conditioned myself. I know it's wrong but I can't rewire myself overnight. At this point, I think I need to take her someplace romantic IF there is a next time. It would make my intentions more clear to her (maybe SHE thinks I only want to be friends) and give me a lot of confidence just by the fact she agreed to go. It would also provide that approval I subconsciously need to touch and kiss her. In other words, it would feel more "right". Keep the feedback coming everyone. Haven't even been a member for 24 hours and I'm blown away with everyone's willingness to help. I look forward to returning the favor where I can.
Author ksmit Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 She might, by this point, think you want to be friends. Do you have subtle moments together? Are there any signs whatsoever that she would respond negatively to an approach by you? Hopefully that ship hasn't already sailed yet. I want to say we have had at least some subtle moments together. Hard to say for sure though cause they are so subtle? lol. Not sure what you mean when you ask if there are signs she'd respond negatively. Are you asking if I have any reason to believe she would turn down a kiss? Besides making her wait so long for it, I don't think so... If not, if the eye contact is right and the body language is suggestive - then you have to say what the **** and make a move. I know what you're going through. It took me a long time to get past the silly feelings of "gosh, does she really like me" when all the indicators were blaring that she did. I never imagined it would be so intense and nerve wrecking. I don't even think jumping out of a plane would be this difficult. Tempted to get on meds even if it's only temporary. Thanks for the response.
Author ksmit Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 I've been doing some research on first kisses and kissing properly, and apparently it can be a deal breaker if it doesn't blow them away. I've never kissed before and I can already tell I'm going to be nervous and likely do poorly. I hope she will recognize it's only from a lack of experience and give me a chance to get good (perhaps teach me?). Logically the better kisser someone is, the more partners they've probably been with. I hope she finds value in the fact my mouth hasn't been on hundreds of other girls. I would for her...
sweetypielovely Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 If after several dates you havent touched her or gave her any indication you wanted more...she probably assumes you dont. I mean a kiss after a great date is the right way to end things. When i go on a date if its gone well...i sort of expect it. Even winking at her or touching her hand is an indication you are into her. Try some meds for sure if needed or get help. Just think...everyone dating goes through things and nerves. You gotta come out of your comfort zone at some time. Good luck.
Author ksmit Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 Thanks sweetypielovely. At this point I'm afraid she won't want to go out on another one until I can clear things up a little bit (in other words, express that I want to be more than just friends). If you could provide any suggestions on how to do that, it would be great. I also wouldn't say we've been on several dates. The first two were friendly outings (out for a drink, other we met for a light evening snack that lasted about a 1/2 hour) and I would only consider our 3rd outing an actual date - actually taking her somewhere nice and treating her to a meal. I should also note we work in the same office for an automotive company though she is on the floor above me. She tells me I'm always welcome up there and I visit her maybe once a week. I avoid it though and be brief because I don't like getting stared down by her nearby bosses. Doesn't look good on me or her. I really need a game plan at this point. Something relatively easy but effective. Something that would force myself to take action. For instance, tell her there's something I want to give her later (kiss). The question would be when and where... Women like excitement and surprises right?
chphan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Err just curious but can't he just ask her if its a date to her? Or suggest when he goes out with her next time that it be a date and see what she has to say. Would be alot easier for him to make a move if he hears it from her that its a date.
Author ksmit Posted August 23, 2011 Author Posted August 23, 2011 I think you're onto something chphan. My only concern would be looking like a total dumbass if they've all been dates all along. Or maybe if she agrees next time, say "it's a date!" or something along those lines. I want to make a move before we go out again. I see her a few times a week at work...
chphan Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Don't worry about looking like a dumbass. Just say "when we go out next, lets make it an official date." If she say no to that then you know she didn't think you as date material. It might sting a little getting rejected but at least you know for sure those other times she didn't consider them as dates. And if she says what about previous other times, aren't those dates, than just say, "I consider those unofficial dates. This next one I'll make it more special and official." Hence you drop the line that there be more touching on next one. lol. At least this way you are indirectly asking her what her opinion is on the status between you two without asking her directly.
robdrm32 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Don't worry about looking like a dumbass. Just say "when we go out next, lets make it an official date." If she say no to that then you know she didn't think you as date material. It might sting a little getting rejected but at least you know for sure those other times she didn't consider them as dates. And if she says what about previous other times, aren't those dates, than just say, "I consider those unofficial dates. This next one I'll make it more special and official." Hence you drop the line that there be more touching on next one. lol. At least this way you are indirectly asking her what her opinion is on the status between you two without asking her directly. NOOOOOOOOO You don't ask a girl what your status is, or if you should consider them dates. You decide for yourself whether they have. And they should have been and probably are. Just take her out, RELAX stop thinking about it and at some point before the end of the date say "Do you like surprises?" Regardless of what she says, lean in and kiss her. If she gets pissed move on if she seems happy you will both instantly be more comfortable and know that you are interested. Stop analyzing and start doing. Just don't be a b*tch about it! This is coming from a guy who has been in your shoes, you have to man up and direct things its your role as the male. She wants to date a man. So be a man.
sweetypielovely Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 Just ask her out to dinner again and be a bit more forward with her. Touch her hand or try to grab her hand and watch for a reaction with her. Youll know if she pulls back or isnt into you that way at that point. If i wasnt into a guy i didnt let him get physical with me and certainly didnt continue to go out with him friendly or not. Shoot id text her. Can you do that or have you been doing that? Or call her if you dont wanna go up there. What about lunch at work?
Author ksmit Posted August 24, 2011 Author Posted August 24, 2011 Just take her out, RELAX stop thinking about it and at some point before the end of the date say "Do you like surprises?" Regardless of what she says, lean in and kiss her. If she gets pissed move on if she seems happy you will both instantly be more comfortable and know that you are interested. Stop analyzing and start doing. Just don't be a b*tch about it! Thanks for being so direct and clear on what my next move should be. It's a no-brainer but seems impossible to execute. I need to formulate a series of steps or some sort of plan. Just ask her out to dinner again and be a bit more forward with her. Touch her hand or try to grab her hand and watch for a reaction with her. Youll know if she pulls back or isnt into you that way at that point. If i wasnt into a guy i didnt let him get physical with me and certainly didnt continue to go out with him friendly or not. Shoot id text her. Can you do that or have you been doing that? Or call her if you dont wanna go up there. We commonly shoot comprehensive emails back and forth throughout the week with the occasional call and visit in between. I think part of the reason why touching is so difficult is because we were always in a work environment and it sort of set boundaries that are hard to break. What kind of text could you suggest? Thank you!
thatone Posted August 24, 2011 Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) as for the kiss, my personal favorite method...reach out and touch her face. first kisses even for the experienced are awkward if one side or the other doesn't know it's coming. it is entirely possible to 'miss' on your 100th first date kiss just as well as your first-first one. touch her jaw/chin with your finger, if she's looking away give a little nudge to invite her to look at you. then she knows it's coming and it should be fine. plus, touching her face/nudging her chin up is symbolic of taking initiative on your part, and the same thing can be used later. on the next date when she sees your hand coming toward her face she will know what to expect, then you surprise her with something a little different, use your whole hand, a little more aggressive. little gestures that escalate as time goes on, but using a familiar technique so there are no surprises. it works . Edited August 24, 2011 by thatone
Author ksmit Posted August 24, 2011 Author Posted August 24, 2011 touch her jaw/chin with your finger, if she's looking away give a little nudge to invite her to look at you. then she knows it's coming and it should be fine. plus, touching her face/nudging her chin up is symbolic of taking initiative on your part I really enjoyed your whole post. Gently nudging her chin towards me is an excellent idea, but I'm thinking it's a little too advanced for my level of ZERO kissing experience. For now I want to keep it simple as possible. Perhaps holding the sides of her arms/shoulders instead of touching her face. Or even caress her hair... I will hopefully know what to do anyway when I'm in the moment. This is what I need guys. Next time I see her, I want to have something to say that will nudge me harder towards making a move. The more my love emotions flair up, the less anxious and more aggressive I become (a good thing). I need to have pre-actions that will lead to a kiss. I'm thinking of calling her up on a work night to just go for a walk. She only lives a couple miles away and it would only take 20 or 30 minutes of her time. No dinners, expenditures, or etc, just us and the night. This would be ideal because it would give us very good privacy. Keep the replies coming everyone. You guys have no idea what it's worth to me if I can pull this off. Maybe cash rewards for all!
thatone Posted August 24, 2011 Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) hair is a bad idea. if your sweaty palms get stuck in her hair it's gonna end badly if you yank a few hair strands out, lol. holding her arms/shoulders, a bit too much, imo. if she's in any way not comfortable with you that could be interpreted as too aggressive (restricting her arms). plus she might want to put her hands around the back of your head or something. that's my gf's thing, she likes putting her hands around my shoulders/neck. you don't want to restrict her hands/arms. you don't have to nudge much, the act of touching her face is enough. there's nothing to learn there, so it's not 'advanced' per se. you're just touching her face. she will know what's coming next. Edited August 24, 2011 by thatone
Pierre Posted August 24, 2011 Posted August 24, 2011 I have no idea how I kiss a girl for the first time. It just happened because she was receptive. I believe a planned move may end up awkward. As I recall kissing opportunities come while waking somewhere by a large body of water. In a pinch you can kiss in the parking lot. I just don't see why you are so uptight. She asked you out and therefore she is into you. She also knows you are shy and may need a little help.
Author ksmit Posted August 24, 2011 Author Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) Those are all excellent points and make perfect sense. You've been very helpful. I'm a little unclear now though about where my hands should be. :s Question for you guys, would it be a bad idea to try to kiss her right at work or should it wait for a real date? There are plenty of places to hide and I think it might add even more excitement for the both of us... Edited August 24, 2011 by ksmit
thatone Posted August 24, 2011 Posted August 24, 2011 your hands shouldn't be anywhere. the face touching idea is just a gesture to let her know that the kiss is coming.
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