Janesays Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 The facts of the case are this: I have been seeing my boyfriend for roughly about 6 months. We are both 32 years old. He has never been married. I just got out of a 10 year marriage to a very mean guy who eventually stole my life savings and left me for another woman. In a nutshell, I'm skittish about relationships and men in general. My boyfriend and I are also semi-long distance. He lives about 2 hours away, so we see each other mainly on the weekends. For the most part, I can't say enough good things about him. He's kind, funny, wicked smart, responsible, patient, reasonable, and totally handsome. With that said, I have noticed a little bit of emotional and physical distance from him. I am a generally a pretty affectionate girl, but my boyfriend seemed a little...uncomfortable? with my advances. It didn't matter if we were alone or in public, he was just stiff when I touched him. And he almost never touched me. I asked him about it and he insisted that he loved me touching him and kissing him, but still there was that distance there. Even after we had sex, he stayed a little 'hands off' with me. Heck, even DURING sex, he was 'hands off' with me. I started getting paranoid and anxious that he wasn't physically into me. He NEVER initiated sex. If I initiated, he responded, but he never took the lead and tried to keep his hands off my body as much as possible. It was so strange and weird. I asked him about this a few times, told him my fear that he wasn't attracted to me, and he would INSIST that he was. When I asked for an explanation for the fact that his behavior and actions didn't match up, he would just say that he had been single for awhile and hadn't had sex in a few years. We talked about our sexual histories and he said he had only been with two girls and wasn't that experienced. He also said sex was never that important to him and yada, yada, yada. Sounded like BS to me, so over the months my anxiety grew and grew. I theorized that he wasn't attracted to me, that he was into someone else, etc, etc, etc. Never in my life had I been with a man who seemed uncomfortable being close to me. Finally, finally, after a few discussions about this, my boyfriend realized how much his behavior was making me insecure and he confessed the truth: Before me, he was a virgin. I was shocked. Stunned. I mean, we had a discussed his sexual history before. And everything he said about it was a blatant lie. Now because of my history with my ex husband, I have made it clear to my new boyfriend that I only have two dealbreakers when it comes to relationships: Meanness and lying. I can and have forgiven infidelity as long as the guy doesn't lie about it. Trust is a serious, serious issue for me and I am very upfront and honest about that. I get why he lied, I do. He was embarrassed. I would have understood totally and wish he would have had faith in me, but if he couldn't, rather than lie, he could have told me he didn't want to talk about his history. But instead, he lied, WITH DETAILS. And reinforced that lie on multiple occasions, unprompted by me. So here my conundrum: my trust in him is completely blown. It bothers me how GOOD he was at lying to me: I never suspected in a million years he was a virgin. I'm usually of the opinion that liars never stop lying....they just get better at it. He was an amazing liar right off the bat....I am terrified of him getting BETTER at it. Further, I wonder that, because of his prior virginity, would a long term relationship with me ultimately fail even if I could get over this lie? I mean, could this man even be faithful to me? Or would he always wonder what it would be like to be with another woman until he ultimately cheated? Basically, I'm clueless as to how to proceed. I was hurt terribly in my last relationship and I don't want to EVER go through that again. My boyfriend has apologized and promised that he would be forthright from now on, but still, should I risk it?
Cee Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 This is where your relationship just got REAL. How the two of you weather this storm is the true test of his character and your relationship. If your boyfriend sticks around and keeps the dialogue going, you will discover his true self. I would reserve judgment and keep an open mind. Try not to make this too serious. You have only been dating your boyfriend for 6 months. I think sometimes we make things incredibly HUGE because of past relationship failures. I know your ex was a snake and so was mine. But try not to victimize yourself by comparing your current boyfriend to your ex. They sound nothing alike. Yes, we risk getting hurt again. But that is the way of love. If you never want to be hurt again, then you aren't doing the love thing right. It's like a child playing in a park. Yes, they will fall and bleed, but at least they are enjoying their lives without fear. Don't lock yourself away thinking that will protect you. It won't. And if you are too hurt from the past, maybe you need time to be single and heal further. Sorry to blather. Good luck.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I think that the lying with details really ran the red flag up the pole for me. I hesitate to say that he failed he audition just because of the level if ego involved for a 32 year old virgin (I dated a 33 year old one once). But if he lied out if shame then that suggests other issues too. Here's my call, wait maybe a month a gage for more red flags. I don't sense it being great but it may not be as bad as it seems. My husband is an incredible liar, your fear is completely understandable.
tigressA Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I think that the lying with details really ran the red flag up the pole for me. I hesitate to say that he failed he audition just because of the level if ego involved for a 32 year old virgin (I dated a 33 year old one once). But if he lied out if shame then that suggests other issues too. Here's my call, wait maybe a month a gage for more red flags. I don't sense it being great but it may not be as bad as it seems. My husband is an incredible liar, your fear is completely understandable. I really agree. I suspect some people here will eventually go on the attack, saying this is what inexperienced men get, blah blah blah. Don't listen to them. The fact that he lied in such a detailed manner is pretty awful. If he was so embarrassed he could've just not talked about it or at least been really vague with the lies. He lied in detail and had you convinced, so this proves that he is an excellent deceiver and could get away with lying about other, more serious things. I feel you'd be entirely justified in breaking up with him now. If you want to try to forgive him and continue your relationship, I am with DOT in giving it another month or so to see if anything else pops up.
Author Janesays Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone think the virginity makes him more likely to cheat? Don't most men need to sow some oats before they commit to one woman?
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone think the virginity makes him more likely to cheat? Don't most men need to sow some oats before they commit to one woman? Yes - I do believe this is the case. It is a larger worry than lying in my opinion.
rafallus Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone think the virginity makes him more likely to cheat? Don't most men need to sow some oats before they commit to one woman? Some do (often by own admission), some do not. You cannot make clear-cut assumption on this one.
ascendotum Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I get why he lied, I do. He was embarrassed. I would have understood totally and wish he would have had faith in me, but if he couldn't, rather than lie, he could have told me he didn't want to talk about his history. But instead, he lied, WITH DETAILS. There's been posts on LS and I have heard it from women IRL. If a guy avoids talking about his past relationships, its a red flag. If he confesses to not having much long term relationships, its a red flag. If he confesses to having no relationships its a red flag. This guy was damned if lied and damned if he didn't. Personally I can't see a guy who lies about not being a virgin changing his nature and extending his use of lies to all other aspects of his life. Are all girls who under count their number of sex partners not worthy of deserving a bf. As for 'would he always wonder what it would be like to be with another woman until he ultimately cheated?' Hard to say. You would need to pick up on any regrets he has in this regard in conversations you have with him. Even then it would not necessarily translate to him cheating on you. He might think, why risk blowing a great relationship with a great girl, when they don't happen all that easily for him, or he might simply decide to end the relationship when the going gets tough. You never know, even if you were with a man who had slept with 50 women, what really might be going through his mind.
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Actually, I wouldn't ask him about sowing wild oats. My ex has only been with 2 women before me and I asked him this very question. He denied it and told me that he doesn't want to sleep around. He later admitted that I have planted this idea in his head...
Lovelybird Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 He later admitted that I have planted this idea in his head... what a ridiculous excuse!
dreamingoftigers Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone think the virginity makes him more likely to cheat? Don't most men need to sow some oats before they commit to one woman? IMHO not in itself, no. I have a particular like for virgins and found them overall not altogether more likely to cheat. At the point where he is 32, he has spent a lot of time wondering what it would be like with a woman. Clearly the guy wasn't in a rush to collect multiples. At this point to him you=sex Or rather sex=you (or his hand). Not a bad place to be (depending on his porn usage levels.) As well, statistically virgin men entering into LTRs are more likely to be faithful (trying to remember the source of this, my apologies, it is an old stat.) Having sex with you did not awaken the roving eye if he didn't have it already. One guy that I asked out (virgin) at the age of 20 (he was 33 and I think overall the least accomplished man that I dated for his age, also not the dimmest and least socially aware). He did all of a sudden think he was the King and told me at about the six week mark that he didn't want an exclusive thing and that we should see other people. He meant that he should see other people. It didn't end up working that way and he has not had a gf since from what came through the grapevine. He would be over 40 now and he is working mall security. I don't think his prospects are great for the harem he had hoped for. I wish him well though. One guy I dated did
dreamingoftigers Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I hope the example is not too offensive: It is kind of like giving a loan to someone with no previous credit history. You don't have enough information to know how they will treat it or react. At least with some history, even poor history, you have some idea. Unfortunately that leaves you evaluating the other factors besides his relational history. And his pants were on fire for months....
Author Janesays Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Honestly, the prospect of being alone doesn't bother me one bit. I have a lot of joy in my life and I don't validate myself based on my relationship status. So if this guy is a bad bet, I'd rather bolt now and save myself a broken heart. I've been cheated on too much in the past to want to expose myself needlessly to that kind of pain again.
2sunny Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 his lie is concerning... but the way you describe him is even more of a concern. it doesn't seem like you two are a good match. he's distant - emotionally and physically - to the point where YOU are taking the blame for HIS inability to be more open with you - THAT is what i see as the issue. it would be enough for me to completely understand that it won't work. YOU can't make HIM be something he's not... so i'd let him go.
sm1tten Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 The thing I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around is what his behavior in the bedroom had to do with him being a virgin? Even virgins like to touch and be touched, I imagine. I get being shy and inexperienced, but this seems like it went on for months... what was his reasoning for not having sex before you? Because that could be a clue as to whether he would later seek out other sexual partners. I would give him a chance to re-earn your trust. While I am really not okay with the lying, I don't think it necessarily means that he is a bad person who can never be trusted. On the other hand, especially given your history, I can understand not wanting to take the risk.
FitChick Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Not all lies are equally important. I was fully expecting the lie to be that he was gay. THAT would be a dealbreaker. In today's sex obsessed society, being a virgin is a worse sin than being a serial cheater, which I find a bit sad. Keep being affectionate with him. He probably came from a very cold, undemonstrative family so that is what he is used to. Edited August 22, 2011 by FitChick
DoS Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone think the virginity makes him more likely to cheat? Don't most men need to sow some oats before they commit to one woman? I am a man, and I have had sex with two women - one of which is my current girlfriend. I have very little desire to have sex with other women (at least no desire I would act on - every male has sexual desire pretty often). I am quite satisfied with my current girlfriend.
FitChick Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I lost my virginity late in life compared to most women. I have never cheated on boyfriends. I think people are cheaters by nature or not.
ladysleuth Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 About the lying part, I believe that everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. He does have issues on not having a relationship before. You should not discount the fact that he finally admitted it, and not continue to lie. I seems to me that even though your relationship runs for 6 months, it is still in its first stages because both of you are busy and you only meet on weekends. Sounds like the relationship is by appointment. There should be effort on both parts to connect with each other because if there's no balance then there's simply no chance that the relationship will be ideal.
Author Janesays Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 He was damned either way That is not true. I am not that sort of woman....I totally would have understood. In fact, one of the big disappointments from learning too late was the fact that I couldn't really 'share' his first time. If I had known, I would have just liked to make it more special for him, you know?
FitChick Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) male virgins are despised. he din't want to end up like me. a virgin at 47. It could be worse. You could be a 55-year old virgin like a friend of mine. You've heard of sexual surrogates, haven't you? I believe you need to see a therapist specializing in sexual dysfunction and he/she will "prescribe" a sexual surrogate who will teach you everything. Worth every penny. There are quite a few women who don't like sex, especially in your age range. I recall reading about an experiment years ago where two personal ads were placed, one purporting to be from an average looking man who was reasonably successful and another ad identical except the man said due to an accident he was unable to have sex. The latter ad got more replies! Edited August 23, 2011 by FitChick
torn_curtain Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 This guy seems off. Not only is he a liar but even the fact that he's a virgin at 32 is weird and his discomfort with physical affection. It almost sounds like there's something really bad in his past like he was abused as a kid.
FitChick Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 i don't know what a sexual surrogate is. Google it. Lots of articles like this one: http://nymag.com/nymetro/nightlife/sex/columns/nakedcity/n_8542/
fortyninethousand322 Posted August 23, 2011 Posted August 23, 2011 That is not true. I am not that sort of woman....I totally would have understood. In fact, one of the big disappointments from learning too late was the fact that I couldn't really 'share' his first time. If I had known, I would have just liked to make it more special for him, you know? I think that's great, but there's really no way he could have known that. Being that I'm in a very similar spot as your boyfriend, if I ever get to the point where a woman wants to have sex with me I honestly don't know if I'd be truthful with her. Guys who are virgins really don't know how other people will take it. Some will think we're prudes, others that we're emotionally scarred from abuse, and still others will assume that we sit in our mom's basement playing computer games all day. A lot of us just desperately want to be "normal" with our sex lives that we don't want to admit to being so inexperienced. I agree that lying is a problem, but I think you should let this particular one go. If he continues to have problems with honesty then you can pull out the guillotine. In the meantime just have some empathy. He wasn't lying to hurt you, he was just lying to avoid embarrassment.
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