tigressA Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) I'm one of those people who prefers to ignore differences, particularly cultural/racial, that could potentially cause conflict. I can't really afford to do that in my relationship anymore. As most of you know, my BF is Indian--born and bred in India, has only been stateside for a few years. I'm American. I know, I know--no big thing, we all bleed red blood, you may say. But lately the differences between us seem more pronounced. Today we got into an argument because his older brother friend requested me on FB--the first member of his family to do that. I hadn't tried to add any of his family. I told him about it and he said it was fine to accept the request; he also encouraged me to send a request to his sister and sister-in-law. Then he abruptly asked me to go to my photos. He saw a handful of pics from recent modeling shoots I had put up--nothing even close to indecent. The most revealing were a few body-paint shots where I had jeans and a painted bra on. It could've easily been mistaken for a swimsuit top. He said I had to take those pics down so his family wouldn't see; I flat-out refused. I angrily asked him why he cared so much, as I am not dating his family, and if they minded the pictures would he really be so embarrassed as to break up with me or something? He said I could either take the pics down or not have any of his family members as FB friends. I ended up defriending his brother only minutes after accepting the request. We made up not long after but this episode has left me shaken. There have been other incidents similar to this that have made me feel like I will have to censor myself or 'improve' myself way beyond what is typically expected in order to make a positive impression upon his family. It deeply worries me because if he acts like this matters so much to him, then obviously he cares about what they think...and if they don't like me for whatever reason, he could be influenced enough to dump me. It's like he cares about 'image' much more than I do. When I was working a recent job that I had to quit due to health issues, he had said something like "I don't really want to explain to my family, when they ask what you do, that you clean rooms..." I was fairly tempted, once I secured my new job, to ask him if he feels his family would approve of what I'm doing now. (sarcasm) He talks on the phone with his friends/family in language(s) that I could never hope to understand in this lifetime. I met a handful of his friends months ago and while I did have fun I also felt really left-out because they kept talking in their own language. He did make an effort to get his friends to speak more in English but I couldn't really fault him for falling in with them a lot because it's what he knows. I remember asking him that same night if he would prefer being with someone from his own culture--someone who knows his language, where he comes from--someone he can relate to more easily. He said no, he loves me, wants to be with me, all that. He wants to visit this same set of friends with me next weekend and I honestly don't feel so enthused about it. I guess I should tell him that. Edited August 20, 2011 by tigressA
tonyp56 Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Sorry for your troubles, but this is not really different than any other relationship, it might be enhanced because of the cultural differnces and language difference but any relationship takes work to communicate feelings and expectations. In other words, just because he is Indian doesn't mean thats the only reasons for this or if he wasn't Indian it would be any different. Communication communication commmunication no matter what language each of you speak as long as you communicate to each other (got to understand each other of course) then you'll be ok... Sit down with him tell him how you feel out of place with his friends and that you didn't mean to have pictures he didn't want his brothers or family to see, but the way he reacted hurt you and you wish he would have talked more instead of what he did. Many men, not just him wouldn't want their family and friends to see topless pics of their girlfriends (thats what it was, paint or not you were topless IMO), if it was reversed, and he had pics of himself painted downstairs and he just added your sister or best friend what would you think?
Dust Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Why not just put his family on limited access like block them from that album and your wall for example. I could see plenty of American guys feeling the same way so not necessarily an Indian thing. Personally I wouldn’t care much if the pictures were classy but that’s just me.
Author tigressA Posted August 20, 2011 Author Posted August 20, 2011 We've already talked about this stuff...the friends, the pictures...but it seems to keep popping up and giving us (well, me and sometimes by extension us) trouble. It really seems like he cares a lot about what others think--at least, more than I do. He's more conservative and more attached to what his family and friends think than he would like to admit. It bothers me. I don't feel I should have to censor myself like that to gain approval from his relatives who I've never met before in my life. I don't even block my own father or brother from anything on my FB. It all really boils down to this: Why does he care so much? Because he's gone so far as to blatantly say that a prior occupation of mine wasn't going to cut it with his family, and he gave me an ultimatum about harmless pictures--it makes me think that if his family doesn't like me, he'll take their opinions to heart and end it.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Yes the pics can be locked to certain users. But the while overarching issue: IME I have been in a lot of Indisn homes. They were a huge demographic for our business. Often the families are very traditional and I would say IMHO, (not hoping to offend ANYONE) that they are often quite co-dependent. The family members feelings are exceedingly important to each other and they are quick to bring things up and careful to follow traditional rules. In general this has been my experience. I think that many typical American girls would be uncomfortable with that type of lifestyle. Have you looked into the typical cultural mores of an Indian family (more specifically the region he is from and religious background if applicable)? Have you asked him which values apply to him and his family? Even if he wants to 'Americanize himself, being from his culture, he will most likely have a life-long role in looking after certain members and responsibilities to his family that may be difficult to understand if not put into context. It may also be very practical to examine what type of role you would play in his life if you decided to marry. What would his idea of family responsibility be like?
somedude81 Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Why does he care so much? Because that is how his culture is. You either learn to accept it, or move on.
Author tigressA Posted August 20, 2011 Author Posted August 20, 2011 DOT, I do know some stuff...thankfully, he's the youngest overall, so he's not expected to support his family to the extent that his older brother (who is the oldest overall) would have to. He has no plans to go back permanently; he wants to stay here. He's joked numerous times about how if he were with an Indian girl she would do 'everything' for him--cook every day, do his laundry, blah blah blah. We have a pretty much equal partnership when it comes to those things and I HATE when he jokes about that. I've told him it's annoying but he has no idea how much it really hurts me. I cried about it once when he wasn't around. It makes me think that deep down, that's what he really wants and will eventually leave me high and dry to get it.
runner Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 He's joked numerous times about how if he were with an Indian girl she would do 'everything' for him--cook every day, do his laundry, blah blah blah. We have a pretty much equal partnership when it comes to those things and I HATE when he jokes about that. I've told him it's annoying but he has no idea how much it really hurts me. I cried about it once when he wasn't around. It makes me think that deep down, that's what he really wants and will eventually leave me high and dry to get it. hmm...often times when someone repeatedly jokes about something there's usually a subtle message behind it that isn't funny at all. sorry but it sounds like you two have some pretty serious compatibility issues that need to be straightened out if the relationship is to go any further.
Emilia Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 I'm dating an Indian boy too, he has only been in the UK for a couple of years and he has adapted well. I'm his first white woman. He comes from a fairly middle class background and he is enlightened when it comes to male/female roles but we both know we don't have a long term future. He wants to move back to India one day, his family is very important to him and they are putting pressure on him to marry. He hasn't told them about me though and probably won't because I'm white and older. it sounds like your boyfriend is only comfortable within his own culture, do you think he wants to stay in the US even?
Nexus One Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Are you sure it's a cultural thing? There are a lot of people with Western backgrounds that care about image and what their family thinks about their SO. So I'm not sure if that is something that is limited to other cultures. Personally I wouldn't care what my family would think about my SO, it's my life, I have to live it, I have to be happy in the relationship, not them. I love my family, but this is not something they get to have a say in.
utterer of lies Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 ... That's just the cost of having an indian boyfriend. He won't change, it won't change. Think long and hard if you can live with this.
Emilia Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Also, I think you can't really ignore cultural differences. I spent about 4 months in South Asia and my SO knows I find his culture fascinating and we discuss Western v Indian all the time. It helps if you try to understand it
Author tigressA Posted August 20, 2011 Author Posted August 20, 2011 Let me get a few things straight. Our relationship is acknowledged. His entire immediate family has known about me for months. The fact that we are together is no secret. He wants to stay here in the U.S. The whole plan is to spend forever together...but the stuff in my OP is becoming more apparent and is really bothering me. I think it's bothering him too as he had previously expressed doubts about us due to our differences.
Imajerk17 Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Just a thought: Do you NEED to have your modeling pics on Facebook? I mean, I'm Facebook Friends with a lot of people (including I'm sure some people who really dislike each other) who don't need to see everything. Everyone from a beloved former neighbor who is in his 60's, to my 16-year-old cousin. And my friends who are in their 20's and 30's too. As for the other stuff, yes, it sounds that you and your bf have a clash in some core values. You seem to cherish self-expression want to be accepted and loved for all that you are (all of which are natural, great and healthy) and he wants to be a "respectable" family member, where "respectable" means holding to standards you don't believe in, and understandably so. Edited August 20, 2011 by Imajerk17
Author tigressA Posted August 20, 2011 Author Posted August 20, 2011 Just a thought: Do you NEED to have your modeling pics on Facebook? I mean, I'm Facebook Friends with a lot of people who don't need to see everything. Everyone from a beloved former neighbor who is in his 60's, to my 16-year-old cousin. As for the other stuff, yes, it sounds that you and your bf have a clash in some core values. You seem to cherish self-expression want to be accepted and loved for all that you are (all of which are natural, great and healthy) and he wants to be a "respectable" family member, where "respectable" means holding to standards you don't believe in, and understandably so. Thanks, this helps sum everything up. As for the pics, they were requested, there's only a mere handful of them, and I have few friends as well as professional contacts (photographers). Also as I said, I don't bother censoring/blocking anything from anyone. I think it's a waste of time. If there's something someone disapproves of they are free to block me.
Queen Zenobia Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Just a thought: Do you NEED to have your modeling pics on Facebook? I mean, I'm Facebook Friends with a lot of people who don't need to see everything. Everyone from a beloved former neighbor who is in his 60's, to my 16-year-old cousin. As for the other stuff, yes, it sounds that you and your bf have a clash in some core values. You seem to cherish self-expression want to be accepted and loved for all that you are (all of which are natural, great and healthy) and he wants to be a "respectable" family member, where "respectable" means holding to standards you don't believe in, and understandably so. This is pretty much spot on. At some point one has to decide which issues are worth fighting over and which you can simply agree to disagree on. In many traditional cultures the clothing and lifestyle choices of women are scrutinized to a great deal, and one's choice of a SO is scrutinized as well. It could very well be that your (TA's) boyfriend is merely trying to present a positive image of you to his family. In large part this may help him, so that he doesn't have to deal with negative comments from his family members, but I also don't think it's a bad thing to have his family think well of you should you two have any kind of lasting relationship.
Dust Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Thanks, this helps sum everything up. As for the pics, they were requested, there's only a mere handful of them, and I have few friends as well as professional contacts (photographers). Also as I said, I don't bother censoring/blocking anything from anyone. I think it's a waste of time. If there's something someone disapproves of they are free to block me. If I was your boyfriend the first thing I’d say is lets not turn this into a cultural thing. I mean how would you like it if some one argued you to black culturally or what ever. It just seems kind of dehumanizing for two people who know each other so well to do. You have to enjoy what you’re doing. Put yourself in his shoes, or at least try. He’s uncomfortable maybe you could help him out and offer to block his family from those pictures. They would never know. In fact offer to block every one but your modeling contact from those pictures. There are going to be things that bother you but don’t bother him and you’ll want him to have empathy for you. The ability to treat you as he’d want to be treated were he in your situation. I mean why not offer that? Do you really need his family to see sexy pics of you for you to feel accepted?
utterer of lies Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Let me get a few things straight. Our relationship is acknowledged. His entire immediate family has known about me for months. The fact that we are together is no secret. He wants to stay here in the U.S. The whole plan is to spend forever together...but the stuff in my OP is becoming more apparent and is really bothering me. I think it's bothering him too as he had previously expressed doubts about us due to our differences. He will get more and more controlling with time. Demands will grow. You better start to get used to it.
Woggle Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 I understand why this might be an issue for you but this is his culture and his something deeply ingrained in his family. It won't change.
Queen Zenobia Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 If I was your boyfriend the first thing I’d say is lets not turn this into a cultural thing. I mean how would you like it if some one argued you to black culturally or what ever. It just seems kind of dehumanizing for two people who know each other so well to do. Not to be too blunt, but in most cases this is cultural. I come from a fairly conservative culture as well (although my parents are somewhat less conservative) and this sort of thing plays out a lot among friends of mine whom I've grown up with. Female image can be a very important thing in some cultures, even when one is "Americanized". Is it silly, often yes it is, but it is the reality.
Ddeepprreesseedd Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) OP: I am now going to be a little harsh ( it will look like that) but only for your own good because you seem like a nice and caring person: He will never marry you. I repeat he will never marry you. Whatever he says or does now it doesn't matter. In Indian/Asian culture family is sacred and relationships, marriages, procreation are seen as sacred duty to ancestors. It goes back to philosophy at least 7000 years BC old. You should read about it, learn about it. Whatever he does in America it doesn't matter. He might even become Americanized in every other facet of his life but I guarantee you he will have an arranged marriage with an Indian bride that his entire family will choose for him. They consider marriage a huge investment in every sense (physical, emotional, financial, cultural). You need to study his culture. In Indian/Asian culture individualism doesn't thrive. You are not supposed to be alone, separate, different, on your own. The happiness is derived from togetherness, unity, strong family, clan. For that there is a price of individualism to be paid: you have to be born into, accept, live by the rules. I don't know how old your bf is but I guarantee you this without ounce of doubt in my mind: he will be married to an Indian woman around the age of 30. I am sure he is nice and loves you but he will not want or be bale to change 9,000 years of tradition. Think and use your head: do you want to be his "other world" experience? Edited August 20, 2011 by Ddeepprreesseedd
sm1tten Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 I don't think it really matter whether this is a cultural or personality thing. What matters is that both people are presented as absolutist and extreme in view point - she cares what no one thinks, he cares too much what others think, for example. She wants to be supported at all times in all things because that's what she would give to him; he has a harder time supporting things that he doesn't agree with and seems to have to be dragged along. They're not at the same reciprocal level in this relationship, and it's not just because they are two different people but also because it seems like they have different ideas about how the relationship should work. It seems like all the "compromise" in this relationship comes at a price, and I frankly don't see it lasting much longer as she feels censored and I'm sure he feels controlled.
thatone Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 yeah, his idea is if he's paying his girlfriend's bills not putting topless pics on facebook ESPECIALLY if she's going to be available on facebook to his family is hardly an unreasonable request. her idea is she should do whatever she wants and has a god given right to be 100% ignorant and indignant about consequences for any of her actions.
Professor X Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 It's time you learn how to be less selfish tigressA; You're in a freaking RS.
Pierre Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Tigress: You are insecure and self conscious. This is NOT ABOUT YOU. This is about him and there is no need to be upset. Regarding culture: As many have said these clashes are common about people of the same nationality and ethnic background. Every ethnicity has a set of different cultural values. Imagine a Bostonian dating a redneck from the south. Who cares if his friends speak in a foreign tongue. Yes, I agree, it is disrespectful. But, this reflects on them and not you. It is about them and their lack of manners. You are doing fine and should ignore this. Don't be so insecure. If they act like *******s it is not about you.
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