euphoria turns into depression

[michelle956]

Hopefully I can get better feedback here in this category because I think it's better suited for here.

PLEASE HELP!!

 

I will be 21 next month and my now ex-fiance is 32.

We have known each other about a year and we met at Guitar Center, where I work. He's originally from Memphis, TN and I'm born and raised in this border town in Texas. What brought him here was his job and so he's used to having more options than me to do things. This town is extremely mediocre and has nothing else to offer for people my age but corruption (clubs, etc.) and sadly, since I am a people pleaser, I conformed and just was passed the time with that but when I met him, I knew a man like him didn't need someone who was into that. Needless to say, we hit it off pretty quickly and within a month, talks of marriage came into the picture. I moved to San Antonio around the time we met (because before I met him I was already on that path with a friend and he said he didn't want to hold me back and would be there every step of the way). I pretty much altered my whole life and he just plugged me into his. He didn't do much before he met me but write songs/play guitar since he hates it here. I have only gone out (literally) a handful of times since we met a year ago due to peer pressure from friends.

 

So we broke up two months after we met briefly because he claims he asked me if there was any history ever between a male friend of mine but I know for a fact he asked me if there was just anything going on when we first met cuz he didn't wanna be played. I told him no because I remember the question but in his mind, he thinks he asked something different so when it came out later that in high school there was history, I "lied". I valued him more than my friend so I cut off ties with him but of course, the problem didn't end there.

 

We got back but it was kind of stuck in his head and that just made him have this horrible perception of things that involved the opposite sex. We began fighting a lot but every time we made up, I thought we had sorted out the previous issue. It's like he would look for dirt and would pile them on top of me when we'd fight. He ALWAYS wanted to break up, never fix things. Literally, we never had a fight we he didn't suggest breaking up. He connected dots that weren't even there to begin with and it was just a mess...I was too. I'd drive to and from my hometown and San Antonio (remember we were trying long distance) every time we'd fight. Every time I'd "hurt" him, I would always come up with some inventive way to make it up to him.. (ex.) I burned the pictures I had with that problem friend and a poem about how I loved him and wanted our love to rise from the ashes as my friendship with the other guy burned away) I always understood his perspective on situations but all I wanted was for him to understand mine. He mistook that for me "knowing I would always hurt him but not caring enough to respect him". I felt he stopped trying to take my thoughts seriously a long time ago because it never mattered what I said about anything. He said perception became reality and since his perception was me "showing red flags" of cheating, that's what it was. (I'd also like to add I have not hung out with a guy since we met). So anyways, he proposed on Valentine's Day this year since we were doing pretty well for a while, and I decided to move back to my hometown to save my parents the money, both of us the time of driving up and down, and I just wanted to make this work. Two weeks after I move back though, he breaks up with me. He says he's tired of fighting and that a lot of what we went through shouldn't have happened if I really loved him. I never ONCE even had the THOUGHT of cheating on him but in his mind, half of what I was doing was shady. We broke up in May but have been seeing each other up until a week ago and he STILL brings up things from last October. He is living in the past. He says "things keep coming up" but we haven't had any new argument for 4 months..it's been the same argument over and over.

 

I'm not one to ever put up with this and everyone I've ever known knows that and thinks I'm an idiot. They have a right to think that because that's how I feel. I just don't understand how I can sacrifice and make so many major life decisions and he can't see the effort. Everyone I talk to says it sounds like I've been trying like a chicken with its head cut off and that he is blind but everytime I even try to point things out to him, he flips everything on me and says everyone he's talked to has said I'm probably a gamble. I just get so frustrated. I was always preaching to "never change your life for a guy" but I thought he was the exception. He was perfect when we weren't fighting but when we fought, it's like he got in self defense mode and 180ed. He'd say one thing when we'd fight and take it all back the next day. He says I should've known our break up was coming because of all the fighting but the "fighting" was just me telling him to stick it out because we're a team. All I ever did was beg him to love me as I loved him.

 

At one point this summer, I felt we were going good for a few weeks and it felt like it did before all the problems but then when his car broke down (when he picked me up), he was venting to me about how frustrated he was about money and he said he was angry at God cuz he prays so hard to help him out. I tried to lighten things up by saying maybe God was testing his faith through trail and he said," or maybe God is telling me to grow some balls and stop answering your calls." That was when I snapped and told him I didn't deserve the projection of his life. He said he's felt like he's never had time to get over everything that's happened and that even though he's made his decision about us, it's either we fight cuz we're broken up or he remains peaceful and ("by force") gives me what I want. I thought everything was genuine (he was sending me cute texts again and telling me he loved and and being affectionate) but he said he would do that to avoid me getting mad at him. He said if he wanted to be with me, he wanted to pursue and he hasn't. I had gone a week and a half without any contact but I called him cuz I was crying about some family issues and he wouldn't wanna hear it because he said I'm just telling him how much he ****ed up my life, which isn't what I was trying to do. He got mad and literally said he would walk home and got out of his car. He came back but I felt like an idiot. The next day I saw him because that night he gave me the wrong information about what day it was and I came into work thinking it was Thurs. when it was Wed. so he picked me up and that's when we got intimate. Afterwards, I found a song (he's a songwriter) with lyrics that were clearly about me...it wasn't good. He sees my reaction and tells me not to get pissy. I think he's coming over to comfort me but he tells me he's been trying to tell me he wants nothing to do with me and when I tell him that's not true cuz he'll still jump into bed with me, he says I make him. I was like," Why do you even come over to me acting like you care just to say that?" and he replies," Well I really don't but I don't know what else is left to say."

This was LITERALLY yesterday. Today he deletes me on Facebook.

I'm leaving a lot out but tell me if that's not something I should wanna die over

I still love him but I don't want to force him. I've already tried and it's just pushed him further away. I'm just so devastated. I haven't felt like myself since we broke up. I used to lit up a room and my family says I look dim. I can't believe a lot of what he has done or said.

[Downtown]

Michelle, the behavior you describe -- inability to trust, verbal abuse, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, talking about marriage within a month, flipping from adoring you to devaluing you in ten seconds, always being "the victim," blaming you for every misfortune, and irrational arguments -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). In brief, you are describing a man who may have the emotional development of a four year old.

 

Only a professional can determine whether those traits are so severe and persistent as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full blown BPD. The traits themselves, however, are not hard to recognize because there is nothing subtle about behavior such as temper tantrums, verbal abuse, and black-white thinking (wherein he categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad"). I therefore suggest you read more about the nine BPD traits to see if they sound familiar. On this forum, a place to start reading is the discussion between Katt and me about her BF, who also exhibited many strong BPD traits. That discussion starts at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3361912#post3361912. If that discussion rings a bell and you have any questions, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to online articles that can. Take care, Michelle.

[michelle956]

Wow, you are a real psych buff. lol Before anything, thank you so much for even taking the time to read and advise me. I appreciate it more than I can say.

I took an abnormal psych class this past semester

so

thankfully, I'

m

very aware of all of these PDs. He once told me intially sometimes he thought he was bipolar but everyone that knows him has said they've never seen him mad at all. He always said he'd never felt

so

much doubt with anyone else and I feel

so

undeserving of this torture when all I've ever wanted to do is love him. When he was in his 20s, he was engaged to an older woman (in her 30s) and supposedly she would flash her tits and he trusted her. I brought that up once when he was getting mad at me for going commando to a club with a dress on (and believe me I was uncomfortable the whole night and hardly moved) and he equated the two but that "he never thought she would really do anything because of it" and that "she just liked the attention" . Are you kidding me?

He thinks I ran into an ex of mine and that that's why I got

so

dolled up that night (ecause he's military and was in town that weekend) but I didn't even plan to see him (and didn't, thank God). Of course though, I can never win. Apart from psych, I've searched low and high for answers.

 

[COLOR=#0068cf]http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/members/1and4.asp[/COLOR]

 

(don't worry about not being a member: Here is the problem areas:)

A relationship between Ones and Fours can sometimes be like mixing oil and water: they tend to separate quickly because they see things from the opposite points of view. Ones think that they are almost always being sensible and objective, while Fours do not try to be "objective"—they want to see things from the subjective, personal side. While both bring a kind of idealism to the relationship, it is usually idealism applied to different things. Ones will be idealistic about social causes, morality, politics, and global issues, while Fours are idealistic, even perfectionistic, about aspects of their personal lives—their lifestyle, their mate, and their choice of work. Both can reinforce each other's sense of superiority, leading to elitism and snobbery toward others. Both can become disdainful and condescending toward those who have less breeding, taste, or sense of refinement—and the habit of being disappointed in others can be turned against each other as well.

Both types are ironically highly aware of their impulses, their sensuality, their longings and frustrations, but they both attempt to handle these issues in diametrically different ways. Thus, one of the biggest areas of conflict between Ones and Fours is in self-discipline versus self-indulgence, between personal and emotional impulses either being acted out (Fours) or being suppressed (Ones). Ones can begin to see Fours as hopelessly emotional, self-absorbed and self-indulgent, while Fours can begin to see Ones as insufferably rigid, judgmental, and cold. Fours can become as angry, critical, intolerant, and self-righteous as low-functioning Ones, and Ones can become as melancholy, self-pitying, alienated, and depressed as low-functioning Fours. In short, Ones and Fours may end by being disaffected with each other for being the way they are: they are not an imagined ideal. Both can be unforgiving, keeping scores and remembering long-past hurts. The relationship can deteriorate into bitter frustration with each other and end as the result of rancorous arguments.

 

http://www.socionics.com/rel/sdl.htm

 

http://www.ipersonic.com/type/compare.php?code=it-ei-2-c4-a3-c2-a1

 

I don't know whether it's a PD or these links above because all of these are pretty much what's been going on with us. I had another link but I can't find it. I just miss his willingness because he used to be soooooo involved.

 

He said when he told me he loved me for the first time, he made a choice and felt that with the things I did, he felt like he was getting slapped in the face every time for making that choice.

"I keep making him question because everytime he'd forgive me, things kept coming up" and well honestly, I've never had anything going on except that my life before him kept begging to come back.

According to him, he would be okay if I had a past but it kept effecting our present that was the problem.

 

I had a lot of guy friends initially and asked him if that was okay initially but then he started to change when we started getting serious. He said I shouldn't wanna hang out with all these guys if I'

m

truly satisfied with him and that it shouldn't be a big deal to me to distant myself if I really valued the relationship and I told him that it's not

so

much that I wanted to hang out with them, but to have the trust and option of doing

so

. He also frustrated and felt like these were things he didn't need to tell me and that he was having to coach me through how to be in a good relationship but I was nothing but loyal to him. When I wasn't with him, I was either at work or school, or we would Skype, be on the phone/text (when I was in San Antonio).

 

Like I've said before, he never got over that first initial guy that he says I "lied" about and he said I "lied" to him multiple times about him. The only time I can honestly say that I lied was when we had an argument after we had gotten engaged and he had brought that up again and I was like," I haven't even talked to him since you first told me to cut him off!" in the heat of the moment because I wasn't thinking about one time when he texted me. This was the conversation:

 

Friend: Hey you're getting married and you don't even tell me?

Me: Yeah, because we don't speak anymore, lol.

Friend:

So

I'

m

not getting invited or what?

Me: No, Andrew would kill you (or something along those lines)

Friend: But you're the bride, you run that bitch.

Me: It's not my choice.

Friend:

Me: I'

m

sorry.

 

and Andrew gets mad when he finds out later about it because :

1) he thinks I was lying when I just wasn't thinking of it in the heat of the argument

2) that I always blame us not talking on him and that when I said "it's not my choice" he said I did have a choice but I explained how when I wrote that, I thought that it wasn't about JUST me anymore. We are a couple, but he says that I'

m

smarter than that and that I knew how he would take it and that's why I said it to let him think that I still did want him around.

3) My friend (who I'll call James) had always texted me since I got with him periodically with things like "can I have my friend back?", "I miss you", and "I love you" and I always ignored them but with Andrew's temper, I'd get scared that he'd think we'd spoken on the phone or something

so

I deleted all of his texts and now he thinks I deleted them because there was more to it.

I know I was in the wrong to delete texts (and I've never done that) but this guy would be on pins and needles with just the mention of his James's name

so

I just wanted to aviod the awkwardness.

 

I've explained multiple times I would just ignore him hoping the problem would go away and when it didn't, I didn't know how to deal with because although Andrew imagines him as an "ex", we never technically had the title ever

so

I had never had to deal with silver lining like that and

so

I was very hesistant since before I met Andrew, James was a good friend of mine. Andrew didn't like the emotional attachment because he said in moments of vulnerability, he would probably take advantage like he had in the past. I respected him and his thoughts

so

I cut James off of Facebook and after this incident, changed my number

so

he wouldn't say we would talk, AND I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM SINCE OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR.

 

There was only two times after fighting that he really did want to make it work and one of those times, he suggested we go to counseling. He had talked about it before but never did anything and after one particular fight, he had information and he said he'd take anger management for the rest of his life if he had to. We went in separately for an evaluation and the next week, we were supposed to go in together and I felt super hopeful after mine and when he got out, I knew what was coming. He had said the counselor was "confirming that everything that he thought was right" and was trying to break it off..again. You can imagine the letdown. I kept seeing the counselor on my own because I needed it but stopped but I made an appt. for this Monday. Thank you for even considerate enough to me to even respond. Even "friends" of mine haven't done that this year.

 

His deal is that he wants a "God-centered" relationship (he used to be a hardcore Jesus freak and wants to get back to that) and blaims me a lot for our "unwise choices" but it takes two to tango but everytime I point that out, he says I force him. That's not true. Half of the time I think he's genuine and well I think he is but as soon as he gets mad, it's like he's

so

bitter he takes it all back to hurt me. He said when we met, we both weren't in the right place and I wasn't living a lifestyle he would've wanted a potential wife to live and makes me out to seem like a nympho who when he's gone, I'll just go to someone else when he forgets he tried to sleep with me on the first date. I forgive him FOR EVERYTHING and he keeps tallies of all my flaws. He said when I was with him, I was one person and he loved that person and when I wasn't with him, I was someone else. I wasn't ever different with everyone else but I had a hard time changing my lifestyle because people my age don't think I should've wanted to settle down

so

much. I was always myself and even more

so

with him, and that's what I loved. With him, I didn't have to try.

 

I kept hanging on because I always felt maybe this time, he'll get me. He used to try. I kept thinking I could bring it back somehow.I kept thinking he would prove me wrong in a good way and I'd feel all the hurt was worth it..

I felt maybe this one time will be the last time he complains, etc.

He used to be more than what I had in mind for a husband..

that's why I said yes..and then he questioned everything about my life at one point. My roommate and I were fighting the whole time cuz I was in SA because I was begging for consideration and she would say "she wasn't going to act like she was getting married just because I was" and would bring people over and he quesitoned if the whole fight was staged

so

I could have people over. That I would say she was bringing all these unwanted guests over but they were really mine. The problem was all her friends were friends I introduced her to and the only thing I ever tried to do was be civil but he doesn't see that.

 

In his head, I was too nice to everyone and didn't know when to say no and that most of my insecurities revolved around other guys (because that's what I had presented to him when we first met). He was right but when I met him, it all changed and he never understood. When things were right with us, I felt invincible and when they went south, he was the only one making me insecure.

 

I feel

so

stupid because I still love him and want this to work..

but I feel I should save the little dignity I have left and stay away after he deletes me from Facebook a day after we have sex..

I'

m

just

so

drained/numb/hurt..

:(

 

 

 

[Downtown]

He once told me intially sometimes he thought he was bipolar.

I took care of a bipolar foster son and a BPDer exW for 15 years. I therefore have seen that there are many clear differences between bipolar and BPD. A primary difference is that 4 mood changes in a year is considered "rapid cycling" for bipolar. Hence, although the frequent mood changes you describe are possible for a bipolar sufferer, they would be very rare. In contrast, it is commonplace for BPD mood changes to occur frequently. Changes several times a week are not unusual. The reason is that a BPDer's anger is always there, right under the surface. You do not have to do anything to create it. Instead, all you have to do is some innocuous thing (e.g., an idle comment or minor infraction) that TRIGGERS the anger. This is one reason that a BPDer can flip from loving you to hating you in ten seconds.

Everyone that knows him has said they've never seen him mad at all.

If Andrew actually has strong BPD traits, he must be "high functioning" or you would not have been dating him. HF BPDers typically get along just fine with strangers, business associates, and casual friends. Those folks rarely, if ever, see the BPD traits because they cannot trigger his anger. That is, they pose no threat to his two great fears, engulfment and abandonment. In such casual relationships, there is no intimacy to trigger engulfment and there is no close LTR that is at risk of being abandoned. Hence, it is not surprising that "everyone" has not seen his mad side.

 

It would be very surprising, however, if YOU have not seen him throw temper tantrums or otherwise verbally abuse you. Such "acting out" is common for the vast majority of BPDers. A small portion of them, however, rarely act out. Instead, they "act in" by turning their expression of anger inward. Instead of punishing you with temper tantrums, they punish you using snide passive-aggressive remarks and icy silence and cold withdrawal. Such BPDers are called "quiet borderlines" and "waif borderlines." Because they are greatly outnumbered by the "loud" BPDers, there is little information about them online. So, if that seems to describe Andrew, let me know and I'll be glad to point you to two excellent articles about them.

He always said he'd never felt so much doubt with anyone else.

Untreated BPDers are so emotionally unstable that they cannot trust themselves. Having only a fragile, unstable sense of who they are, they don't know today what activities or things they will like a month from now. Until they learn how to trust themselves, they are incapable of trusting any loved one for an extended period (e.g., more than a few weeks). Hence, if Andrew has strong BPD traits, he cannot trust that you will not abandon him. And, the stronger his love for you becomes, the stronger the fear will be. It therefore is not surprising that he was so full of doubt about you.

He thinks I ran into an ex of mine and that that's why I got so dolled up that night.

Due to his inability to trust, a BPDer typically is extremely jealous. One reason for this is that the BPD traits prevent him from regulating his emotions, resulting in feelings that are so intense he is convinced they MUST be true. These intense feelings distort his perception of your intentions and motivations. Indeed, all of us are familiar with this type of distortion. It occurs every time we get very angry. We are so familiar with it that, whenever we get angry, we know to wait until we cool off before taking action or saying anything. BPDers, however, do not wait because they lack impulse control.

I had a lot of guy friends initially and asked him if that was okay initially but then he started to change when we started getting serious. He said I shouldn't wanna hang out with all these guys if I'm truly satisfied with him.

If Andrew has strong BPD traits, the outcome likely would have been the same if you had surrounded yourself with many GFs. Due to his great fear of abandonment, a BPDer tries to control nearly every aspect of his loved ones' lives. Such control is difficult to exercise, however, if a person has friends who frequently are saying "That is the most ridiculous explanation I have ever ...." A BPDer therefore typically will try to isolate you from all close friends and from your family members. My exW, for example, kept telling me she did not like my friends and she only rarely would visit my family members. And she hated my foster son.

He never got over that first initial guy that he says I "lied" about and he said I "lied" to him multiple times about him.

Like I said, BPD traits create a distorted perception of your intentions. On top of that -- to rid himself of painful, crippling feelings of guilt -- a BPDer will project onto you the selfish thoughts and feelings he has. In that way, you are serving as a "trash can" for his guilt and -- as I already noted -- as "the perpetrator" to support his false self image. Projection works so beautifully to protect his weak ego because it works fully at the subconscious level -- allowing his conscious mind to actually believe the outrageous accusations coming out of his mouth. It therefore is common to witness a BPDer saying such irrational, illogical things that you marvel any human being can say such things and keep a straight face at the same time. This is one reason a BPDer can be so utterly convincing when relating such a story to other people. He likely believes it while he is saying it. (This is not to say, however, that a BPDer -- to avoid the painful shame of being proved wrong -- won't lie when he is cornered.)

He said he'd take anger management for the rest of his life if he had to.

As I mentioned earlier, BPDers have enormous anger and shame right under the surface. They have been carrying it from early childhood. Although excellent treatment programs are available for helping BPDers, it is rare for a high functioning BPDer to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference.

I just miss his willingness because he used to be soooooo involved.

That is an understatement if Andrew really is a BPDer because, during the infatuation period, he would have mirrored nearly all good aspects of your personality. In addition, he would have enjoyed doing nearly everything you enjoyed -- and he would have loved being around the people you enjoy. I would not refer to such perfection as "sooooo involved" but, rather, as a "soul mate." Hence, during the honeymoon period, both the BPDers and their partners typically are convinced they have met their soul mates.

He used to be more than what I had in mind for a husband.

Again, if Andrew actually has strong BPD traits, this sentence likely greatly understates what you experienced. During the honeymoon period, you are as close to heaven as you will ever come. It typically will be the most romantic, passionate experience of your lifetime -- so wonderful that there are hundreds of millions of folks like me who are willing to spend years -- 15 in my case -- tolerating the verbal abuse in an attempt to restore the intoxicating conditions of the honeymoon period, i.e., trying to bring back that wonderful person we saw.

I kept hanging on because I always felt maybe this time, he'll get me.

Yes, like me, you were convinced that -- if only you can figure out what it is you are doing wrong -- you can restore the wonderful man you saw during the honeymoon period. Typically, after the honeymoon period ends, the emotionally healthy partners will spend up to an additional 12 months trying to restore the honeymoon conditions. Then they bail. In contrast, the excessive caregivers like me typically will never let go. After about 12 to 15 years, however, the BPDer will walk away from us because, as the years go by, he will become increasingly resentful that we are unable to make him happy. And, as his body ages, he may become increasingly fearful of abandonment. My exW, for example, left me after 15 years. By "left me" I mean she called the police and had me arrested on a bogus charge, giving her time to obtain a restraining order barring me from my own home throughout the18 months it takes to get a divorce in this State.

he said," or maybe God is telling me to grow some balls and stop answering your calls." That was when I snapped and told him I didn't deserve the projection of his life.

Good for you! Yes, that is a beautiful example of him projecting his problems onto you. It also is a good example of his black-white thinking, wherein he perceives of everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and he will recategorize someone (YOU in this case) from one polar extreme to the other based solely on a remark or minor infraction. Another example of such B-W thinking would have been his frequent use of "never" and "always" to describe your behavior.

I thought everything was genuine (he was sending me cute texts again and telling me he loved and and being affectionate) but he said he would do that to avoid me getting mad at him.

Most likely, what he told you was genuine. A BPDer's problem is not being insincere but, rather, unstable. Andrew therefore likely was just as genuine when expressing his love and writing cute texts as he was later when devaluing or hating you. That is, a BPDer can easily flip from adoration to hatred in ten seconds. This happens because he is extremely uncomfortable with experiencing strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, and paradoxes -- something that the rest of us learned to tolerate in childhood. I therefore believe that, if Andrew has strong BPD traits, he likely loved you very much. But it is not the type of mature love that is needed to sustain a marriage. Instead, it is the type of love you get from a four year old, where "I love you" largely means "I desperately need you to love ME." But it is love and it is genuine, even though it falls far short of what is needed in a mature relationship.

He used to be a hardcore Jesus freak and wants to get back to that.

It is common for BPDers to jump from one religion or cause to another. As I noted above, a BPDer lacks a strong sense of who he is. Hence, a BPDer will tend to adopt the interests of whatever friend he is hanging out with at the time. This is why you usually will see a BPDer acting very differently around different types of people. And this is why a BPDer is so drawn to a person having a strong, stable personality to center and ground him -- keeping his mind from shooting off in all directions. But, sadly, once he is in that stabilizing relationship with a woman, he will feel controlled and engulfed (by the intimacy) and fearful of abandonment.

I forgive him FOR EVERYTHING and he keeps tallies of all my flaws.

It is common for a BPDer to maintain such a list in his mind. A BPDer always thinks of himself as a perpetual victim. He therefore will interpret your behavior to support that false self image. During the honeymoon period, for example, he was so infatuated with you that he perceived you to be the perfect woman who had come "to save" him. That is, he must be a victim if you were doing the "saving."

 

Then, as soon as the infatuation evaporated (within six months), his twin fears of abandonment and engulfment returned. This means that you were often triggering his engulfment fear (by being too close and intimate) or triggering his abandonment fear (by being too far away). Significantly, there is ABSOLUTELY NO Goldilocks position where you could safely stand to avoid triggering those two fears. This, then, is why he started perceiving you as "the perpetrator," thus blaming you for every misfortune. Like your prior role of being "the savior," your new role as "the perpetrator" supports his false self image of being "the victim."

He said when I was with him, I was one person and he loved that person and when I wasn't with him, I was someone else. I wasn't ever different with everyone else....

A BPDer typically has great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., with knowing that your personality traits and behavior are lasting and persistent. All of us have that difficulty when we are in early childhood. Initially, we have to learn that mother does not vanish when she walks out of the room. Once we acquire that understanding, we have to learn that her behavior is consistent and predictable -- so much so that we can trust her to be the same day to day. BPDers never learned that very well -- either because the parent was actually untrustworthy or because the child was born with an oversensitivity to other peoples' behavior. It therefore is not surprising that, if Andrew is a BPDer (person with strong traits), he perceives you to be a different person while away from him. A friend of mine, for example, often complains that his GF is very warm when they are together but always treats him coldly when he calls her from out of town.

I feel so stupid because I still love him and want this to work.

There is nothing "stupid" about falling in love with BPDers. It is so easy to do. When BPDers are good, they are very VERY good! They typically project a childlike warmth and purity of expression -- together with a vulnerability -- that makes us want to hug them and take care of them. During the good times, when he is splitting you white, going home to him is like opening the front door to see a young boy coming at you with outstretched arms and a look of unmitigated joy on his face. No mixed feelings. Instead, just a look of pure joy and adulation. Edited August 21, 2011 by Downtown

[Nohbody]

But I always learn so much from reading Downtown's posts. Thanks for sharing!

[michelle956]

Thanks for the reply.

Did you take the time to look at the links that I sent you?

I continued to look at one website and found these that further elaborated on both our personalities.

 

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeOneOverview.asp

 

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeFourOverview.asp

 

(If you've read the links above) I'm the type four and what it said about my parents is pretty accurate. Andrew (One) had always mentioned he felt like he was having to raise me or point me into the right direction all the time and that he didn't want to be a "dad" and although I don't think that's what he ever was to me, it says in the overview, I look for the "good parent" in a mate usually.

In his overview, it said he internalized things and became very much about order and good/evil because he didn't bond to the "protective figure" or some religious background. He did grow up in a Christian home and always said his parents let his siblings get away with too much and that they should've been more disciplined. The overview also says he never rebelled against his parents and he was the only one (of the 3) that didn't.

I don't know how credible the Enneagrams are but both seem to be strangely accurate (including the link I sent about our compatibility) I would get mad cuz he's very much a person of objectivity and principles rather that subjectivity. I would tell him I wasn't a statistic and that even though my actions appear one way in his mind, that he should know me better and know it's not the case. Of course though, he thinks that because of my "hiding" and "deceptions", there's more to it and that he doesn't want to marry someone who lies about the opposite sex. A lot of times, I felt he came up with excuses. My parents started using my car a lot at one point and he even said that bothered him once. He was like," If we just met and I told you not having a car was a dealbreaker, would you beg?" Of course, I said no. He's like," Well at 20, that might seem like a big deal but at 32, it kinda looks like a problem." He says he can't ever understand why I wouldn't let go. He never wanted to hurt me over and over but I wouldn't leave him alone. I would mostly start the contact again but he always played along...or would give in. The links I showed you are eerily similar to my situation but all the timelines of BPD that you said are pretty spot on too.

 

If it is BPD, how is he ever supposed to know?

Will he?

Should I help him or just stay away?

I hate that I still want to help him when I know what response I'll get.

[Downtown]

Did you take the time to look at the links that I sent you? ...I don't know how credible the Enneagrams are but both seem to be strangely accurate.

Michelle, you have to decide for yourself what approach to understanding Andrew works best for you. The beauty of a forum like LoveShack is that people with diverse life experiences share their views here and you get to pick what seems to work best for your situation. There are dozens of different "personal growth" paradigms being used in business settings as a way to gain insights into workplace dynamics and to promote worker happiness and productivity. Some of those paradigms are used by churches to find the path to a higher state of being and enlightenment. These business and religious uses of the personality paradigms end up being promoted through seminars, conferences, websites, magazines, and books.

 

Significantly, the Enneagram of Personality is not a paradigm that is commonly taught or researched in academic psychology. Instead, it has been widely promoted in both the business management and spiritual contexts I mention above. And, because it is subject to widely different interpretations, it is difficult to test or verify it in a scientific manner. Hence, my personal view is that, if the Enneagram were credible and very useful, the psychiatry profession would have adopted it back in 1980 for use in their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual -- as they have done with the classificatory device used for personality disorders. They did not adopt it then and they will continue to exclude it from the new diagnostic manual scheduled for release in May 2013.

If it is BPD, how is he ever supposed to know?

He likely will never believe it even if a professional diagnoses him as suffering from it. If he does have strong BPD traits, he likely has a vague awareness that he has difficulty relating to others but he is unaware his thoughts are distorted by the BPD traits. BPD is said to be ego-syntonic, i.e., such a natural part of how he has been thinking since early childhood that the thought distortion is invisible to him.

 

If he were a low functioning BPDer, he would be so miserable that he likely would end up in a mental health ward, where a psychologist likely would tell him the name of the disorder -- and he then could be relieved to know what it is. For high functioning BPDers, however, my experience is that it is very unlikely any therapist will tell him. Even if they did, he likely would not believe it and would quit therapy.

Should I help him or just stay away?

I recommend that you stay away because you cannot help him. Moreover, if you were to stay with him, the only way he likely would tolerate that would be if you continue walking on eggshells to avoid triggering his anger. That is, you would have to allow him to continue throwing tantrums and behaving like a spoiled child -- and getting away with it. As soon as you would hold him responsible for his own actions, he likely would leave you. Hence, staying with him means you would have to become an "enabler" -- harming him by destroying his only chance of being forced to confront his issues and learning how to manage them. Finally, telling him that you suspect he has "strong BPD traits" is ill advised because he almost certainly will project it right back onto you, believing that you suffer from it yourself.

[michelle956]

I ask about the Enneagram because I am looking for closure.

Andrew has given it to me, but then his actions won't back it up.

I just want to be sure I'm looking in the right places.

I'm Christian and have prayed all the time about what to do with this whole situation and the only reason I kept going with it was because I had a very special spiritual experience that only Christians have actually taken seriously.

I don't know what religion you practice but I won't go on a rant except that when I literally had no hope at all (suicidal), I asked for a sign to know that there was a higher power because at that point, I didn't believe it anymore and the experience I had is something that I can't really explain rationally.

All I know is I believed what had happened and gave me the hope to try again but I'm seeing maybe I should've pulled away and given Andrew the time he's needed.

He's told me all he wanted to do was take time to make a final decision about us, after he read "Works of Love" by Soren Kirkegard (I think that's how you spell the last name). He's been reading that and wanted to evaluate whether or not he wanted to give me that type of love again and that if he ever wanted to, he wanted to pursue, not feel an obligation.

Thank you so much for your wisdom.

I hope time can lead me down a better path..with or without him..