feelingtorn Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 My boyfriend and I have dated since March. He makes three times more than I do. I was married for 7 years and after divorce, lived with my ex for two years. Instead of paying me rent, my ex paid for everything else, including grocery. My new boyfriend paid more than I when we first started going out, and I did not make any out of it because I was used to men paying for me. Starting June, I could sense a bit of resentment whenever he paid. He called me freeloader five times right after very nice dining experience. He claimed it was a joke, but it was not funny. He also started saying, "you would have to pay for the next meal." As I said, I paid for things occasionally. One out of 3 times, I paid. My birthday is coming up soon. My camera broke. In my past relationship, boys always wanted to know what I wanted. So, I said a new camera would be nice. He said, "An expensive electronics? I cannot believe you actually made such a request." A new digital camera lately costs about 200 bucks or less. I did not think it was expensive. Note that he makes 6 digits and always makes comments like this economy does not affect him, etc. So, we had a talk. I suggested going dutch. He refused and asked me to chip in more often. Now, here is the problem. I cannot get over the fact that he called me freeloader multiple times. My parents were abusive and always talked about what they did for me and how much it costed them. If it weren't for you, we could have blah blah. You get the drift, right. Then, I married a Jewish husband who did not like the fact I made less than he did and often asked me to work multiple jobs. And, I did. Having this problem for almost thirty years of my life, I am now looking for a partner who genuinely cares about me and who does things for me because he gets as much pleasure out of it as I do. Otherwise, it seems fake and forced. Over the past month, I have always made the gesture of paying for things every time we go out and paid more often than I did before. However, because of the freeloader comments, I feel very uncomfortable and get flustered when he pays for things. I cannot enjoy it. He started talking about my upcoming bday, and BAM, the same reaction. I got all uncomfortable and flustered. I actually asked him not to mention my bday anymore and not to do anything. He asked me if it was a "vaginal trap" and if he was actually expected to do something for my bday when he was told not to, in fact. The whole conversation turned me off even more. I feel like I am dating my first husband. My boyfriend tells me he is sorry and he cares about me, but people don't change. He called me freeloader multiple times. I can forgive him for making a stupid comment, but feel like the comment shows the type of a person he is. I don't want to go out with someone who can say such a remark. Am I being too harsh on him? Should I let it go?
LoveandSuch Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 You like this cad because of ? I am not saying this because of the money issue, but because of his ******* style and way with comments and innuendos. Should of told him a monetary gift is not important, and that a LONG, well written out letter or card with true meanings and feelings expressed would be sufficient enough. Voila! A Camera you would have! Jokes aside, he sounds like a turn off.
Kelemort Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 A camera's an expensive birthday gift, but he's also making tons of money. I would think that a THOUGHTFUL boyfriend would understand the income disparities between the two of you. I think whoever's the higher earning should be expected to pay a little more - they have more disposable income, usually. It's entirely disrespectful for him to call you a 'freeloader' especially when you do buy him things, albeit not as frequently as he buys - but there's a reason for that. He makes six figures! Dump the chump. You probably are dating your first husband - more concerned about his money and possessions than he is about you. Is that the life you want?
TigerCub Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I think there are a bunch of things here: 1. just because you're used to men giving you things doesn't mean you don't offer to pay. A bf is not a credit card. Just because you're not as rich as him doesn't matter, take him out to what you can afford. 2. I understand that men spend more in the beginning, but after a few dates, its time to treat a guy, and take him out as much as he does you. 3. Going dutch is just weird and cheap and I'm not a fan, but I am a fan of being fair and treating someone as well as they treat you. 4. This guy may make a lot more money than you, but maybe he's worried that you're a gold digger? or maybe he's just cheap. 5. He sounds very immature to actually make the freeloader comment, and to even do so repeatedly, but you're putting up with it - so what's to stop him? 6. Good relationships are the ones where people don't keep track of who is spending what on who because its fairly balanced. 7. For your birthday, yes, maybe a camera is nice to have, but to ask him for it isn't very appropriate because you've been dating this guy 5 months, he shouldn't feel like he HAS to get you an expensive item (if its good quality, it most likely will be) or else you're gonna complain. You should have gotten the camera for yourself or said something like "well, the only thing really major on my wish list is a camera, but I should get that for me, so honestly I don't know what you should get, anything from you would be nice" - but you didn't even consider that because you're used to men getting you things and paying your way. I think that if you want to continue to see this guy you need to have a frank conversation with him. I would say "we need to clear the air with regards to all this money talk. I enjoy your company and I like taking you out when I can, and I enjoy when you take me out, but if you're going to be resentful whenever you do - we shouldn't hang out. I will take you out and pay for things as my means allow. I'm not a gold digger and I'm not looking for handouts, but if you're going to give me your snide remarks and make me feel bad over anything you pay for, well I don't see a point in this. I don't want to feel insecure about my means of living or like I'm walking on eggshells anytime your wallet comes out. If you have something to discuss with regards to money and spending, lets hear it now. I want to hear what kind of arrangement you think is ideal and what your real concerns are."
sm1tten Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I am so confused by this: So, we had a talk. I suggested going dutch. He refused and asked me to chip in more often. He called you a freeloader. You responded by offering to pay you share. He refused and asked you to "chip in more often..." what does that even mean? Did the two of you actually get to a point where he no longer calls you or considers you a freeloader, or is that issue still ongoing? It's understandable that you were hurt by his comment. If the issue is dead, though, then I think you should just let it go. Do you feel like you can tell him how much it bothered you, and why? To me, it seems he was expressing a frustration in the relationship which you then worked on (by offering to chip in more). You have the right to also express your feelings about this, but if the relationship is otherwise good and satisfying, holding his comments over his head (comments which I'm assuming are no longer valid) just seems pointless. If you think he is still resentful, then maybe the two of you should sit down and hash it out.
Jynxx Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 op, while you may not be a freeloader, you at least seem to share their mentality. Suggesting you would like an expensive gift when he's already paying way more than his fair share is classless, and you justifying your behaviour by mentionning his income is even more so. He makes that money, you don't have any right whatsoever to feel entitled to a piece of it because he makes alot (in your eyes) anyway. I think whoever's the higher earning should be expected to pay a little more - they have more disposable income, usually. That is such utter crap. The reason most people who make 6 figures make 6 figures is because they either work their ass off 80 hours a week to earn it or they worked their ass off 80 hours a week the years before to get in a position that allows them to earn that much. To put it bluntly: if I spent my 20s building a carreer working literally day and night and my gf spent her 20s getting high and partying, why should I be expected to pay more? She made the choice to take short term pleasure over long term investments, if she wanted expensive electronics then she should've thought of that before.
sally4sara Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 The dutch idea is the best way to go if you consider yourself to be a self sufficient adult and not just because the guy complained. Him going beyond that to call you names and demand that you not just operate by the going dutch standard is beyond the pale. IT means he is seeking repayment for expenses he could have just not covered if it was going to just bother him this much later. Now, its not his fault what kind of childhood and marriage you had in the past. I get that it has causation in what you find comfortable and what you find distressing, but he doesn't have to change to fit your past scars. I'm not saying for you to grow a thicker skin however. I think instead you should just accept that the two of you are not compatible and end things because you need someone a little more compassionate who has better communication skills.
Sanman Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 op, while you may not be a freeloader, you at least seem to share their mentality. Suggesting you would like an expensive gift when he's already paying way more than his fair share is classless, and you justifying your behaviour by mentionning his income is even more so. He makes that money, you don't have any right whatsoever to feel entitled to a piece of it because he makes alot (in your eyes) anyway. That is such utter crap. The reason most people who make 6 figures make 6 figures is because they either work their ass off 80 hours a week to earn it or they worked their ass off 80 hours a week the years before to get in a position that allows them to earn that much. To put it bluntly: if I spent my 20s building a carreer working literally day and night and my gf spent her 20s getting high and partying, why should I be expected to pay more? She made the choice to take short term pleasure over long term investments, if she wanted expensive electronics then she should've thought of that before. I agree with the above, but I also think that this guy broached the subject in a very poor manner.
serial muse Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 OK, OP, I'm confused. Initially you said this: My new boyfriend paid more than I when we first started going out, and I did not make any out of it because I was used to men paying for me. but then also this: My parents were abusive and always talked about what they did for me and how much it costed them. If it weren't for you, we could have blah blah. You get the drift, right. Then, I married a Jewish husband who did not like the fact I made less than he did and often asked me to work multiple jobs. And, I did. So to be honest, I don't really understand where you're coming from, as far as your past history. Do you expect men to pay, or don't you? That's just a piece of what's going on here, though. Your BF shouldn't be calling you names, and he REALLY shouldn't play the old "I'm kidding, but I'm really not" :mad: passive-aggressive game. He also REALLY shouldn't say things like "is that a vaginal trap" - just because HE says passive-aggressive crap doesn't mean he should assume YOU do. And the fact that he called it a "vaginal" trap - completely without irony, given his own (male) passive-aggressive shxt - well, the only expression is That said, I'm still very, very confused about what you expect from him. To me, a digital camera is a really nice gift - you guys haven't been dating that long. On the other hand, he did ask you what you wanted. On the other hand, you do (well, did) expect him to pay for you - AND you connected that to I am now looking for a partner who genuinely cares about me and who does things for me because he gets as much pleasure out of it as I do. ...which is a rather fraught way to look at things. Bottom line, it is CLEARLY time for some serious discussion about responsibility and money in your relationship, because this will only fester. I think it's entirely fair for you to tell him that making those comments really hurts your feelings. You can also state, quite honestly, that you were equating him paying to him caring - and then, if you are so inclined, could point out that you see that that is NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE. It's like you both went to the worst assumptions of each other - he assumes that you not paying means you want to freeload, and you assume that him not paying means that he doesn't care enough about you. I don't know whether you two really have a chance - I think his name-calling is a big red flag - but the only way to find out is to have an honest discussion about what's really going on here. What that is, though, I'm not quite sure...he may well have his own deep-seated issues about money and paying.
Author feelingtorn Posted August 19, 2011 Author Posted August 19, 2011 Thank you so much for your feedback. It really helped me clear out my head and reflect on myself. I don't expect men to pay for everything, but def. have associated paying with caring. A good point. I also agree that we have made the worst assumption of each other. He may have a poor way of communicating, but when we are together, we get along really well and have a great time. Even when we have a difficult conversation like this, we have never raised our voice and are always mindful of each other. Quite different compared to my past relationships. I think I am going to give it another try and really try to let it go/look at him/myself with fresh eyes.
LoveandSuch Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 SerialMuse is right about the name calling. He is calling you names now, what should be the honeymoon and this is going to stop when? My answer is it will only get worse, bigger issues, bigger problems. This equal, run!
2011aug Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Instead of going dutch, your boyfriend wants you to pay for an outing once in a while, or pay enough times so it does not feel lopsided. Your boyfriend earned his money; he gets to spend it anyways he wants. I dont understand why you feel entitled to his earnings. I thought modern day women like to be independent? Edited August 19, 2011 by 2011aug
Allisha Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I'm curious - what does your boyfriend do? If you've ever expected him to pay - you're wrong for that. However, something doesn't sit right with me ..I just have a bad gut feeling about you two. He seems like quite a moron.
FitChick Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Next time he asks you out, tell him you can't afford it and suggest something cheaper. If he says it's his treat, then go. Then the next date, go somewhere cheap, saying you are treating him. If he makes good money he'll grow tired of The Olive Garden every other weekend! Because I can never match any boyfriend dollar for dollar, I compensate in other ways. Example: Most Brits love Indian food, so I made a five course Indian dinner complete with gold leaf. He was blown away. Once when he was out of the country working for months on end in an isolated area, I put together a recording of his friends and I wishing him well, had music clips, little snippets of significant phrases from movies, etc. It was time consuming and tedious for me to create, but he absolutely loved it.
Feelsgoodman Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Instead of going dutch, your boyfriend wants you to pay for an outing once in a while, or pay enough times so it does not feel lopsided. Your boyfriend earned his money; he gets to spend it anyways he wants. I dont understand why you feel entitled to his earnings. I thought modern day women like to be independent? They like being independent when it comes to shirking traditional female responsibilities, such as cooking, cleaning and raising children. When it comes to spending money, many still "associate paying with caring", to quote the OP (and this "caring" is apparently a one way street ) Hey, you can't blame them. Why not have your cake and eat it too if men go along with it?
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