scaredandalone1223 Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 It has been over a year since my husband and I first separated for a week and 9 months since our reconciliation after our 2nd, month long, separation.* In that year I have learned a lot about myself, my partner and the value of marriage.* I found LS very helpful while I was in the middle of my darkest hour and still come here often to hopefully offer helpful insight to others that successful reconciliations can and do happen. The one sad trend I find here is how many people use the words separate and divorce as the best words of wisdom.* In our situation there was no infidelity on either side.* I told I loved him but was no longer in love with him.* That was exactly what I meant. It was no code for an affair or even an interest in anyone else.* Yet had he have came here he would have been bombarded with people telling him I was cheating and he should file for divorce immediately. If he asked and I denied it he would have been told he couldn't believe me because I was lying to cover it up.* The road to where we are now was not easy and I had to really open up to my own flaws and ways I had failed our marriage. I could always spin everything to be all his fault.* One of my big downfalls was having friends who agreed with this and would tell me he needs to do this or that.* This boosted my believing it was all him so surely the only answer was divorce!!* Had, at any point, they have pointed to or questioned my flaws or stopped to say yes he is wrong but WHY is this or that happening?* Are there things he's asked you to work on or areas he has told you he feels you are letting him down? As a support community here I believe these are good things to ask or explore. Similar to the way my friends support and advise did more to push me out of my marriage I see that happen many times on LS because we only hear one side of the story. As I read these boards I question why successful marriages have drifted so far from being the norm?* What in our culture makes divorce so widely accepted and easily attainable?* Why is marriage taken so lightly by so many now days? In many cases marriages fail during the first 5 years.* Does this tell us that when the going gets tough it's easier to bail than put in the hard work necessary to fix the problem? There were many times during our marriage that divorce may have been seen by many as the best solution.* But thank goodness we always stuck it out.* Last year was by far the worst year for us but also the most rewarding.* Had we have split after 2 years or 6 or even 10 we would not have had the same foundation to build on. I wish we could have gotten to this point years ago but it's the struggles we stuck together through that made our bond so strong. There are definitely years I would never want to relive but having someone who went through all that with me and the real, true love we have to show for it makes it all worth it. Romantic/ dating 'love' is nice but true, time strengthened, love is really amazingly indescribable. Long term married couples, and I have spoke to many, will tell you there were times in their marriage they should have called it quits but they stuck it out and fought for it.* And at 30 - 50 years of marriage they say it was the best decision they ever made.* They now have a strong history, they truly are the two become one couples.* Yet as I look around me at people my age and younger I know many couples on their 2nd or 3rd marriage or still recovering from divorce and very VERY few who are still in their first marriage.* My oldest son is the ONLY child in his class with his parents still married.* The reward of a long, successful marriage is great but the road to get there is long and hard. None of us are born knowing how to walk or talk. Same with marriage. When we get married we have a lot to learn. We have to mature as a couple. Learn the things that work, the things that don't. We must communicate these to and with our partner. COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE. About anything and everything. Same way as children really just crave their parents attention. They thing they want most is for us to spend time with them and listen/ talk with them. Marriage is very much the same. Spending time together and giving of your time, attention, affection and appreciation. In closing I just want to say to those who are struggling right now that there is hope. All does not have to be lost. Our counselor told us 'Times of adversity build strength, not times of contentment'. Working through the tough times, whether it be marital rough spots or something outside the marriage like the death of a family member, build stronger bonds. I would love to hear other success stories. I would also love to hear some feedback on what you think the state of marriage is today and why.
sillysmart Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 I completely agree with you. I will quickly tell you a success story. My husband and I reconciled after a split which resulted in him being with another woman almost immediately when we split. This was shattering to me to say the least. But, if I had listened to just about everyone in my life..some very good friends conventional wisdom my marriage would be toast and I would not be sitting where I am a little over two years later. I decided at one point to stop listening to anyone. I prayed, went to church and listened to my heart and God. This prompted some soul searching and really looking at myself. I realized I had really been far from a perfect wife. The truth was I was always complaining about his real lack of commitment but I was in reality pretty much the same. Anyway we ended up talking and reconciling and the road to say was painful and hard does not even cover it. But I can say two years later I now have the marriage I never imagined was really possible. Marriage requires three components..I think this is actually a theory I learned by a theorist sternberg? Anyway there is passion, commitment and companionship. All three matter and without all three there is instability and the marriage is vulnerable. I also think there are many wide held beliefs not only on LS but in our culture itself. One is the idea of this no contact blah 180 blah blah...and immediate reactive responses to spouses. For example, the best way to get my marriage back is to not talk to my spouse about why they left? What I need to do is no contact and then when and if they take all the responsibility and beg me to reconsider then I will work it out if I haven't moved on? Wow many posters on here recommend this? Another myth seems to be longstanding and that is kids will be fine...if your not happy in your marriage it is better if you get out it will all work out. This is BS everyone knows it and yet everyone assumes two parents will live close by and get along as far as the kids go and the kids will be great. The other one is oh if your out of love your out of love...Like love is infatuation? Love is lust? I will say there are days, minutes, hours where I am so annoyed with my spouse that I am not feeling the love ya know? BUT an hour later, I can look at him and want to have sex. These are temporary moods and emotions...they have nothing to do with committed love. This is a deeper sacred attachment that I think is what everyone wants and pretends is there ...affairs? This is why the pain of separation is so bad...but yet everyone ignores this and says I am sorry..going through it...but hey go exercise and concentrate on yourself you will get over it. I know life does need to go on for some...but hey I agree with you do not be so quick to throw away something precious and grown over years...Anyway kind of ranting here...but just wanted to respond to you. Take care and I am glad to hear someone else stuck it out, worked on it and it is better and they are glad they did.
analystfromhell Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Bathing this in a religous context is offensive to me and others as it presumes a lot. Why not just say if you work at marriage you'll get out of it what you put into it? That's a tough enough statement to swallow especially if you are insecure or untrusting; I think both those adjectives describe most of those who are in unsatisfying marriages. Taken to the extreme divorce would be illegal and we know the social results of that policy. On the other hand many countries have positive societies "despite" a majority of single parent households. The results are more related to social policies, norms and expectations than "god" or any other spiritual explanations. Is this assertion slightly offensive to you? Does it rub you the wrong way? Consider that feeling when you chock things up to God and prayer. Perhaps that's not where you were headed but it's what I took out of it. Yes, marriage is a huge commitment which requires a lot of work, we all should understand that. Creating a framework that allows people to analyze and figure for themselves where the dividing line between their current situation, what is over the line as far as their partner's behavior and how best to proceed is important. Those years spent working with your partner might be better spent looking for someone else- or maybe not- that's the question.
worldover98 Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Very happy to hear from 'SillySmart' and 'Scaredandalone' on working out their situations so that the many years of their marriages were not thrown away on bad advise from friends and LS. Avoiding the convenience of separation or divorce and instead doing inner soul searching and admitting fault is humbling and makes the difference. We need to stop treating divorce as fashionable. I'm in a dilemma too in my marriage which I am receiving all kinds of recommendations for separation, even from our therapist, because we are stuck in a stale mate where wife's sexless-ness has destroyed our intimacy but she is content with it. But I still love her and would still do anything for her. Surely, I'm pissed and must threaten to split, or do actually that so that she will realize I do have options. But as Sillysmart says, our kids would certainly be affected and it pains me. It's something I'm hoping will work out like 'Scaredandalon' where the short term separation can bring us together in the long run. Eleven years of marriage is like building a house, lots of work that went into to this place. It would be horrible to have to start again in midlife to build from nothing. And to 'Sillysmart', if GOD is your inspiration, so be it. And for those who feel it's "offensive " to hear of this, ignore it instead of making negative reaction. If others believe in 'paganism' and that's what helped them cope in a crisis, mentioning it should not come across as offensive to others!
Author scaredandalone1223 Posted August 21, 2011 Author Posted August 21, 2011 Analystfromhell....Nowhere did I mention God nor the aspect of religion. Like sillysmart I did pray. I prayed for myself, my spouse, our marriage and our children. It helped me! I continue to pray for us and to give thanks for what we have. My husband, however, is an atheist. So religion in no way, shape or form played into his actions or decisions involving our marriage. He has very strong convictions when it comes to his marriage and his family. He holds trust, loyalty and honor in very high regards. That comes from an obligation to himself and not from an obligation to a higher power. I am very fortunate to have found a man who values me, our children and our marriage as strongly as he does. I look around at many Christians I come in contact with on a day to day basis and find my husband lives a far more noble lifestyle than any of them. He may not talk the talk but he d@ng sure walks the walk. For that reason I would never take on marriage and the desire for it to succeed from a religious standpoint. If there are Christians, or those from any other faith, who read this and find they can use their religion as a steeping stone for a happy, successful marriage then I hope they do just that. However, I equally hope that those who do not have any religious beliefs can also read it an find value and insight into saving their marriage.
Woggle Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 No offense to you because I am happy for you and your husband but in general I encourage men not to take walkaway wives back because if they do it once chances are they will do it again. Your case is pretty much one in two million. I am not against marriage but if it is not making your life better you should leave.
Lucid1 Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Scared, Right on. You took the words right out of my mouth. Great post. You might like this one of mine, along the same lines: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3529545#post3529545 And this: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303544604576430341393583056.html And once again, right on.
Lucid1 Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Scared, Oh yeah, check out this site: www.divorcebusting.com Especially the article titled "Hopefully Ever After". Pretty interesting.
Author scaredandalone1223 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Sillysmart...Thank you for sharing!* I'm so happy to hear your success story.* I also agree that the 180 is not always the best advice yet it is almost always the first advice given.* I did find it helpful to focus on myself as that's what opened me up to many of my own flaws.* The NC portion did not work nor did I feel it was the best way for us to go given our history.* The fact that we both wanted to talk about what was going on is the major thing we had going in our favor and NC could have done more harm than good, although I did try it briefly.* This method is not without merit and in some instances it is beneficial but I very much think that telling everyone to do it, no matter what the situation, is not the best way. Worldover98....Your attitude is positive and that counts for a lot.* You being able to see what you have and be willing to fight for it is a big step in the right direction.** There are many great books that you and your wife may want to read together.* I often hear great things about His Needs/ Her Needs, although I have not read it.* Have you guys been able to pinpoint why she lacks interest in sex?* Medications are a big reason for drop in a woman's libido.* The most common being birth control.* Also, what things do you do to fulfill her emotional needs for intimacy outside the bedroom?* Small things like a little kiss as she walks by, or walking up behind her to give her a hug while she's cooking, cuddling just to cuddle, small love notes left in places for her to find, if you both work surprising her with a lunch date.* You may already do these things I'm not sure but just a few suggestions.* Counseling in your situation can be very beneficial too.* If you have any questions I would be happy to try to answer them. Woggle ...Your comment is exactly what I was referring to.* Fortunately my husband did not turn to you for advice!* I don't mean that to sound rude but had he have gotten that advice we may not be where we are today.* There may be another couple out there in our same situation who can make their marriage better yet you see giving up on the marriage as the best answers.* Why is that?* Many times there are things we do not and can not know about another couple.* Yes, I was the one to ask him to leave and quickly realized that was not what I wanted.* I did say I had a lot of soul searching to do and found my own flaws and had to admit to my own failures but that by no means means it was all my fault either.* My feelings of wanting to separate did not happen in a vacuum.* Instead it was things on both our ends.* Things had built up over the years and was finally to a point that something had to happen for us to be able to move forward.* In other 'walkaway' situations as you refer to them how can you say that calling it quits is the best advice without knowing why the person left.* Not many people are going to come on here and say I was doing this, this and this which caused my spouse to leave.* Or my wife did this so I reacted like this which lead to this which then caused this and on and on and on.* Instead it is looked upon as oh your souse left you, you deserve better, so cut your losses and move on. Don't be mistaken I know not ever marriage can work out.* Some relationships need to be ended as they are toxic to everyone involved.* My BIL finally divorced after 12 years and I couldn't be happier.* She was neither the wife nor mother she should have been and his life is much better of without her and their kids are much better off not having to live through the ciaos.* Even with that however had at any point during the relationship she had have been willing to step up and take her responsibilities as a wife or mother seriously things could have been different.* My biggest hope for her in the future is that she finds peace within herself and can find a way to be a better person.* I hope she can find it in herself to be the mother her children need and desire.* Then and only then will she be able to have a happy life or a happy relationship. Everyone deserves to be happy.* I just personally feel that today's society puts so much emphasis on 'happiness' that they fail to understand what it really takes to be happy.* What I mean by that is if something in a marriage starts causing unhappiness then it is advised to toss that one to the side and find someone who will make you happier. Only the thing you find is a few weeks, months, maybe even a year or two into the new relationship that same unhappiness arises from another issue.* No one is perfect!* I know of another gentlemen who was married, they drifted apart, each became unhappy and 5 years in called it quits.* He later remarried and found a new wife that fulfilled him in the areas his first wife had not.* A couple of years into the marriage he realizes that yes his new wife makes him happy in some of the areas his first wife did not, but some of the things that were so great in his first marriage do not exist in his present marriage.* He is now 'unhappy' again and thinks it is time to move on. I'm not trying to say if someone is absolutely miserable that they should lead an unbearable life simply to avoid divorce.* What I am saying though is people seem to be willing to flee rather than push through the rough spots.* Each and every person makes a choice when they decide to marry.* If someone doesn't firmly commit to what exactly marriage entails and see it as a life long commitment then maybe they should think a little longer and a little harder before making the commitment.* The one thing I can say without hesitation is from all the couples I have asked vs. all the divorced people I have asked (friends, family members, past co-workers) the overwhelming responses show that those who are still married, who stuck through the good and the bad, who make it through those times they wanted to call it quits are extremely happy with where they are.* By contrast most of the divorced people I asked are not nearly as happy.* The ones that are still single have struggled with happiness far more since the divorce and the majority firmly believe if they had have stayed that looking back at the lessons they've learned could have worked things out and would be much happier with their spouse.* I asked a few people who were remarried and about 60% were much happier this time around.* Of that 60% about 1/2 of them said that they had encountered the same issues and struggles in their current marriage and that because divorce was no longer and option, as they did not want to go through it again, found ways to work through the issues this time.* The other 1/2* said divorce was the best thing they ever did!** The other 40% of the remarried group said they were not happier.* They had the same issues, the same arguments or that what was great about their first marriage was lacking in the 2nd.*
Woggle Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I hope you are the exception. I really do but once a woman gets into walkaway mode they very rarely come out of it. I do notice that wasn't until your husband was truly ready to move on that you started having second thoughts and wanted him back. I truly wish you two happiness but in general I encourage men to let a walkway wife go and never look back. Life is too short to waste time on somebody that doesn't have both feet in.
Author scaredandalone1223 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Woggle I really appreciate your insight. The divorcebusting link that Lucid provided has many great articles on saving marriages though. I'm not saying all marriages can, or even should, be saved but I also feel that giving up should not be the go to answer that is often relayed. In many, probably most, cases walkaway spouses are not leaving just because they woke up one morning and said I think I'll leave my spouse today. Yes, it did take my husband leaving to shake me up and I'm thankful for that. However, there were many areas, on BOTH our ends, that needed to be addressed. When one spouse gets to the point of leaving it is important to look at 'why they are leaving', 'what may be done to change the situation' and 'how to go about doing it'. A spouse does not always leave because they are in an 'affair fog' or because they are any number of other names you may want to throw out there. A leaving spouse may do it as a wake up call or a last ditch effort to relay the message of something must change. If a couple can use this to open up and finally begin to find the root of their problems and fix them then by us saying just let em' go they weren't worth it anyway is us pushing them to destroy something that could have otherwise been saved. This may not always be the case. Quite frankly I would love for couples to work on things BEFORE it got to that point. You say I'm 1 in 2,000,000, and while I would love to think our situation is some great once in a lifetime fairy tale, I do not believe that is the case. I believe our situation could be played out far more often if there weren't so many others out there pushing divorce as the best alternative. Edited August 22, 2011 by scaredandalone1223
Woggle Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 To me if a marriage needs saving it is a marriage that probably shouldn't be in the first place. A good marriage should be rock solid or else it is just not worth having. If a building has a bad foundation sometimes it is better to just tear it down and the same is true with a marriage. To me if a wife has that walkway mentality in her the marriage already has a bad foundation. I don't think that women wake up one day and want out but like many people they are disillusioned with life and modern day society. They don't like the rat race and the emptiness anymore than men do but instead of taking steps to fix their life they put all the blame on the man in their lives. They figure that if they get their husband out and can be single and independent they will have a fabulous life full of adventure. When things don't quite turn out that way and the ex has finally moved on only then do they realize what they threw away. Some women truly do learn their lesson from this and I truly hope you are one of them but most of the time the men forgive her only to have her pull the same crap again. To me it is just better sometimes to move on and have peace of mind. A woman can't hurt you again if you don't want her anyway.
Author scaredandalone1223 Posted August 22, 2011 Author Posted August 22, 2011 Woggle, you and I agree on many points. Yes, a marriage should be rock solid. But all marriages will at some point have problems. There comes a point in time that people fail to agree on things or misunderstandings escalate or things happen for numerous other reasons. I just question why when these events happen why must the partners so quickly turn to divorce as the solution? No matter what marriage it is things will never be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. I find in today's culture though so many people at the first sign of a problem get scared, close up and turn to divorce before looking for ways to secure their marriage. I also agree with woman and men alike begin thinking somehow leaving will give them this great fulfillment and somehow freedom from marriage will make them happier. My bigger question is what can we do as a whole to change this perception? Often times once a spouse leaves they see that life isn't the roses and unicorns they thought it would be. Yet separation or divorce is still given as a quick response. I think in today's culture it would help if everyone didn't base everything on happiness. Don't get me wrong happiness is a great thing and yes it should be what we all strive for it's just nowadays it seems to be a word thrown around that if things aren't going perfect you much leave so you can find happiness. Happiness isn't something you just go find. You have to work for it. Yes you can go to a movie, or an event or a night out and find happiness for a moment, but real, true happiness, long term happiness comes from within. I think the confusion of it is what leads to many troubled marriages today. Our culture has shifted so much toward instantaneous everything that the things that do take work, determination and perseverance get lost in the shuffle. The value of marriage has changed over the years and I find that sad. No, I do not believe a person should stay married just for the sake of staying married if they truly do not love their spouse. I also do not feel though that marriage should be so easily and lightly entered into just to throw it away a few years down the road. And where we are now that is exactly what is happening. We take our jobs more seriously than our spouses. As soon as something goes wrong in a marriage it's time to head for the hills because there is no use being miserable and being with someone you don't love. Even though you did love this person a week, a month or a year ago. Then the marriage falls apart, a divorce is completed and down the road the people involved realize 'hey that wasn't the answer'. Only by then it's too late.
rafallus Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 Woggle, you and I agree on many points. Yes, a marriage should be rock solid. But all marriages will at some point have problems. There comes a point in time that people fail to agree on things or misunderstandings escalate or things happen for numerous other reasons. I just question why when these events happen why must the partners so quickly turn to divorce as the solution? No matter what marriage it is things will never be 100% perfect, 100% of the time. I find in today's culture though so many people at the first sign of a problem get scared, close up and turn to divorce before looking for ways to secure their marriage. And this is when you find out, what exactly is the whole thing worth. It's easy to behave, when everything's peachy.
Woggle Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I don't think that people should throw away a marriage at the slightest sign of imperfection but a woman telling a man she wants a divorce is hardly a slight imperfection. I have told my wife to never mention divorce unless she truly means it because that is exactly what she is going to get. I also think that the walkway wife thing would decrease if more husbands took a zero tolerance policy towards the whole thing. If women thinking about leaving their husband knew they had no backup and no soft place to land once reality hits maybe it would decrease. The way to change it is to change gender relations. Get rid of this idea promoted by some extreme feminists that a woman can't be a full and independent person if they happen to be in a committed relationship with a man. We live in a culture where it is promoted a man does nothing but drain a woman's happiness so of course some women think getting rid of him is the key to happiness and bliss. If people want marriages to be stronger start promoting the idea of men and women working together as a team in relationships instead of against each other. Gender wars are not good for relationships that are supposed to be based on love and affection between men and women. I agree that marriage is not valued as much but I don't see that changing anytime soon. We have a 50% divorce rate and as much as I hate to make it about gender 75% of those divorces are initiated by women. The decline of marriage in general is driven by forces that some say make us a more enlightened and more free society. I say that is open to debate but it is what it is.
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