imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 Another question. If I decided that my perfect, amazing friendship with my affair partner was worth salvaging but that the affair was destroying it, is this ever possible? Does anyone ever go back to being friends? I can't live without her, and I knew that before I even knew I loved her, months before everything started. I'm friends with my ex-girlfriends, but those were resolved relationships that lived and died naturally. An affair is never resolved. I tried dating someone else last year, but it didn't work; I was still too much in love. Is there any chance I could ever fall out of love so that I can have her in my life but we won't be slowly killing each other?
Owl Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 If the married person in the affair chooses to remain married and "work on their marriage"...then continuing the 'friendship' is a direct conflict to that. One of the two things will eventually fail...the friendship or the marriage. It's basically continuing to betray their marriage by continuing that friendship. Typically...it doesn't work. The affair will resume full blown, or the friendship will be forced to end because it conflicts with reconciling the marriage. It also tends to prevent either affair partner from "moving on" past the affair...it greatly delays personal recovery, and often prevents the single partner from finding any other potential relationship opportunities. Bottom line...once you cross the line from friendship to affair...the friendship is over one way or another. It either escalates to a committed relationship between the two...or it ends because the married partner chooses the marriage.
MissBee Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 Only the passing of time will show if it's possible... Often times with the passing of time you either get over this person to the point that a natural friendship ensues OR you realize you can actually live without them and you no longer worry about being "bestfriends". My A partner was a great friend to me, and after the A, we had a year of No Contact, and then in 09 reestablished contact and we now are on good terms and speak occasionally; however, our friendship is not like before and surprisingly, I live without his constant presence just fine. His role was usurped by my bestfriend, who became even closer to me after he and I stopped talking. Things have a way of working themselves out imperfect, even when it is hard to fathom how. I cannot say if you will be able to be great friends with her post A, but I will say though that things change and it's not always bad. Almost every person says their bf/gf is their bestfriend and always want back the friendship after the R ends...but many do not get back that same type of friendship, and they don't go through life upset about it but other things happen, they find someone else, their perception changes, the feelings wane and they're able to live, full and happy lives without regret
sally4sara Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 It depends. Are you the married party, she the married party, or both of you married? Whomever in the mix that is married needs to put it all out on the table to their spouse, work through it and come to an understanding that you are not made for monogamy. If the spouse or spouses can come to a place of acceptance for that and wish to remain in the relationship anyway, this opens the door to all manner of friendships while also removing the fear of betrayal from their minds. They know who you really are, how you do, and that physical intimacy may come from your "friendships". This is much better in my mind than all the lies by omission, worry about unlikely promises, and the chance they they could be blindsided by someone they thought they knew very well. THEN maybe a friendship could be salvaged. But no association is just a friendship if you have to keep it hidden from everyone else in your life. Can you think of any real friends you've ever had that you had to keep secret from everyone else? Of course not. So if you want to have a friendship - the real measuring stick is whether or not it has to be an association like the two of you are cockroaches scurrying away once the light gets turned on.
woinlove Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 I think an affair can turn into a friendship if the MM/MW ends their M (or ends their R with SO if they are not married.) Otherwise, I would say no. An affair isn't just sex. It is an R, the nature of which is kept secret from the BS. It might be possible to continue a friendship if everything is confessed to the BS, they work through it, and all are fine with a continuing friendship. Seems highly unlikely though and, even then, may not stay a friendship. If the A remains a secret then it really is a continuing A if the R continues, as it is ongoing deception about the meaning of the connection you have. Typically, when you start an A with a married friend, you lose the friend, unless that friend decides to divorce. Sometimes we fail our friends, and having an A with a friend is failing them. People can learn from this and value future friendships and protect them.
Author imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 I think an affair can turn into a friendship if the MM/MW ends their M (or ends their R with SO if they are not married.) Otherwise, I would say no. An affair isn't just sex. It is an R, the nature of which is kept secret from the BS. It might be possible to continue a friendship if everything is confessed to the BS, they work through it, and all are fine with a continuing friendship. Seems highly unlikely though and, even then, may not stay a friendship. If the A remains a secret then it really is a continuing A if the R continues, as it is ongoing deception about the meaning of the connection you have. Typically, when you start an A with a married friend, you lose the friend, unless that friend decides to divorce. Sometimes we fail our friends, and having an A with a friend is failing them. People can learn from this and value future friendships and protect them. This girl is my best friend and has been so for years. She's also my creative partner. I've never had a friendship this close and I can't imagine it happening again. This is making me incredibly sad. I don't know what to do.
Author imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 It depends. Are you the married party, she the married party, or both of you married? She's married. Her husband knows we're close friends.
sally4sara Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 She's married. Her husband knows we're close friends. Yeah but I doubt he knows HOW close. She needs to take her mask off. Don't you ever get a nasty taste in your mouth watching her fake her way around her husband and you there being the accomplice? Maybe if she told him who she is and what she is up to, they could come to some understanding where he could have his dalliances too and y'all could just be normal about this stuff?
Author imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 what helped me was to take a "step back" and try to think of what advice i would give to a friend who was in my situation... i realized that i was slowly turning into someone i didn't recognize anymore, and that had to change. you really don't sound happy at all, and if this woman is really also your best friend, she'll see that and not wish for your hurt ( or hers) to continue. that's where we're at right now. something happened this week that precipitated nervous breakdowns in us, and we meltdown in different ways; she needs her space, i need to be held and reassured that everything will be alright. those goals don't work well together. we're trying to figure out what the **** to do get healthy again.
Author imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 Yeah but I doubt he knows HOW close. She needs to take her mask off. Don't you ever get a nasty taste in your mouth watching her fake her way around her husband and you there being the accomplice? Maybe if she told him who she is and what she is up to, they could come to some understanding where he could have his dalliances too and y'all could just be normal about this stuff? problem is, we're not a dalliance. we're good but flawed people who want complete relationships. we're physically and -- to some degree emotionally -- monogamous. she has just so far stayed in her marriage for reasons that don't involve the direct relationship between her and her husband, reasons that do make sense; people do often stay together for the kids (my parents did) and this is not necessarily an excuse.
sally4sara Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 problem is, we're not a dalliance. we're good but flawed people who want complete relationships. we're physically and -- to some degree emotionally -- monogamous. she has just so far stayed in her marriage for reasons that don't involve the direct relationship between her and her husband, reasons that do make sense; people do often stay together for the kids (my parents did) and this is not necessarily an excuse. Having kids doesn't mean these things can't be handled out in the open and with honesty. In fact, one might consider that having kids means you need to set a better example with a heavy emphasis on honest dealing. Many more marriages than even I could guess have these same kind of associations only with everyone in the know.
woinlove Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 This girl is my best friend and has been so for years. She's also my creative partner. I've never had a friendship this close and I can't imagine it happening again. This is making me incredibly sad. I don't know what to do. That is very sad. Do you think she will end her M? If she is planning to stay married, then I think it will be extremely difficult for you unless you arrange not to be in contact with her. It really takes time to heal and feel like a whole person again and continuing contact usually just prolongs that healing. It's a painful road, but many have done it.
woinlove Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 problem is, we're not a dalliance. we're good but flawed people who want complete relationships. we're physically and -- to some degree emotionally -- monogamous. she has just so far stayed in her marriage for reasons that don't involve the direct relationship between her and her husband, reasons that do make sense; people do often stay together for the kids (my parents did) and this is not necessarily an excuse. If it as you describe, why is there a problem? If she is physically and emotionally somewhere else and doesn't have any romantic R with her H, then she can be honest with her H and not lose any of that. Usually MM/MW in A lie and deceive because they are still trying to hold on to something in their M. If this is simply a M of convenience, arrangements can be made. Encourage her to be honest, because living a deceitful life typically eats away at your soul if you are a caring person.
confused_88 Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 this is quite, and eerily similar to what I just started facing. Had the full on A with a co-worker for 5 months. She took a month off from work to evaluate what she was going to do. During this time she totally kept me in the dark. Shows up to work this past Monday, and totally ignores me. Tuesday, I happen to be outside with another coworker and she comes over and engages in meaningless conversation. Tuesday night, she unfriends me from facebook. Wednesday night I get this email saying that the thing that hurts her the most is losing our friendship. So we finally have been talking today at work. And she confesses she misses me as a friend, because of how easy I am to talk to, and doesn't want to keep operating in silence. Yet she says that she is trying to work on things with her H...though he doesn't seem 100% interested. So I feel your pain, trust me. I don't know what this "friendship" stuff is all about. We were probably friends for, oh maybe 3 weeks before we slept together...and then went full-blown A. So the friendship was a part of the A. They were not mutually exclusive items. So i don't see how it's possible to remain friends with someone when there were expectations and desires of something so much more. But that's me. I'll play this game...because I do have to work with her...but I know where this road will lead. But this time, I'm driving an armored humvee, and keeping my heart safe. Cheers and best wishes mate
Owl Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 problem is, we're not a dalliance. we're good but flawed people who want complete relationships. we're physically and -- to some degree emotionally -- monogamous. she has just so far stayed in her marriage for reasons that don't involve the direct relationship between her and her husband, reasons that do make sense; people do often stay together for the kids (my parents did) and this is not necessarily an excuse. So why does SHE get to decide to "stay together just for the kids" but he doesn't have the same choice, based off of all the information, that she has? Wouldn't it be better for all of the involved people for the two of them to sit down, clear the air, get the affair out into the open, and decide how to deal with it like adults? Let each parent, each spouse make their own decisions and/or a joint decision about how to go forward from here...with all of the pertinent information shared equally? As someone else said...I think that parents set a better example by DEALING with the situation rather than teaching their kids poor relationship skills.
Author imperfectsituation Posted August 18, 2011 Author Posted August 18, 2011 So why does SHE get to decide to "stay together just for the kids" but he doesn't have the same choice, based off of all the information, that she has? Wouldn't it be better for all of the involved people for the two of them to sit down, clear the air, get the affair out into the open, and decide how to deal with it like adults? Let each parent, each spouse make their own decisions and/or a joint decision about how to go forward from here...with all of the pertinent information shared equally? As someone else said...I think that parents set a better example by DEALING with the situation rather than teaching their kids poor relationship skills. I agree, but I don't have any control over what she does. All I can control is what I do.
whichwayisup Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 Another question. If I decided that my perfect, amazing friendship with my affair partner was worth salvaging but that the affair was destroying it, is this ever possible? Does anyone ever go back to being friends? I can't live without her, and I knew that before I even knew I loved her, months before everything started. I'm friends with my ex-girlfriends, but those were resolved relationships that lived and died naturally. An affair is never resolved. I tried dating someone else last year, but it didn't work; I was still too much in love. Is there any chance I could ever fall out of love so that I can have her in my life but we won't be slowly killing each other? There's no way you two can be friends after an affair. Whatever "innocent" friendship that occured before you two crossed the lines and before when it was platonic, is gone forever. There's no going backwards. You love her and if she is in your life you'll never let go and heal. You'll never allow anybody else into your heart, let alone have a chance at love with a single and available woman.
Circular Posted August 18, 2011 Posted August 18, 2011 I think a lot of us that have been in these situations, when they come to an end we struggle with the question of 'friends', there's love, caring, etc... we're all human regardless of the situations there are real feelings/emotions involved. So the question gets posed, or the idea is tossed out 'can we be friends given the current circumstances are creating too much conflict, chaos and hurt feelings' I suppose the bigger question comes down to what is a friend? And what is love? To really be a friend and to really love someone means you have to find within yourself the ability to be selfless (vs. selfish). A selfless act for someone you love means you'll do something at the cost of your self. Many times this olive branch of 'friends' in these situations is driven by selfish not selfless needs and therefore it's not truly an offer of friendship but a design to keep something and mitigate/avoid loss. If you truly had a friendship, and you truly love this person as a friend then you'll do the selfless thing and walk away. There's not a need for a lot of words either you're just doing what is right for both of you. Give it a few years (people hate that idea), be apart, don't communicate, only you'll know when the time is right to offer real friendship, it'll most likely occur the same day you realize you haven't thought about her in a long time.
spice4life Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I think a lot of us that have been in these situations, when they come to an end we struggle with the question of 'friends', there's love, caring, etc... we're all human regardless of the situations there are real feelings/emotions involved. So the question gets posed, or the idea is tossed out 'can we be friends given the current circumstances are creating too much conflict, chaos and hurt feelings' I suppose the bigger question comes down to what is a friend? And what is love? To really be a friend and to really love someone means you have to find within yourself the ability to be selfless (vs. selfish). A selfless act for someone you love means you'll do something at the cost of your self. Many times this olive branch of 'friends' in these situations is driven by selfish not selfless needs and therefore it's not truly an offer of friendship but a design to keep something and mitigate/avoid loss. If you truly had a friendship, and you truly love this person as a friend then you'll do the selfless thing and walk away. There's not a need for a lot of words either you're just doing what is right for both of you. Give it a few years (people hate that idea), be apart, don't communicate, only you'll know when the time is right to offer real friendship, it'll most likely occur the same day you realize you haven't thought about her in a long time. Excellent post circular! I totally agree. And walking away is not being a martyr either. It simply means that you accept the reality and have chosen a path says you don't want to cause or be in anymore pain. Allow yourself to sit with it and go through all of the emotions involved in the healing process. Just let it go, heal and move on.
carrie999 Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 She's married. Her husband knows we're close friends. If she's really your friend, the friendship will make it work if you're both honest with eachother. Seriously. Trust that much.
TurboGirl Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 There's no way you two can be friends after an affair. Whatever "innocent" friendship that occured before you two crossed the lines and before when it was platonic, is gone forever. There's no going backwards. You love her and if she is in your life you'll never let go and heal. You'll never allow anybody else into your heart, let alone have a chance at love with a single and available woman. Exactly. As long as you are seeing your MW, there will be no single woman for you. You will have to end it and get over your MW if you want to move on with your life. The friendship part, well, possibly in a few years, possibly not. She made her choice! Staying with her H. Leave her to her life and continue with yours so you can find an available woman.
Gentlegirl Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 You have to get her completely, totally, out of your blood , you heart and your system. If you don't you won't be able to find anybody else. Gentlegirl
TurningTables Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I think a lot of us that have been in these situations, when they come to an end we struggle with the question of 'friends', there's love, caring, etc... we're all human regardless of the situations there are real feelings/emotions involved. So the question gets posed, or the idea is tossed out 'can we be friends given the current circumstances are creating too much conflict, chaos and hurt feelings' I suppose the bigger question comes down to what is a friend? And what is love? To really be a friend and to really love someone means you have to find within yourself the ability to be selfless (vs. selfish). A selfless act for someone you love means you'll do something at the cost of your self. Many times this olive branch of 'friends' in these situations is driven by selfish not selfless needs and therefore it's not truly an offer of friendship but a design to keep something and mitigate/avoid loss. If you truly had a friendship, and you truly love this person as a friend then you'll do the selfless thing and walk away. There's not a need for a lot of words either you're just doing what is right for both of you. Give it a few years (people hate that idea), be apart, don't communicate, only you'll know when the time is right to offer real friendship, it'll most likely occur the same day you realize you haven't thought about her in a long time. I love this post and agree with it. There is no way you can work on a M while still having the friendship from a A. That is really not working on it. They still have you as their "friend" and sounding board, which keeps you in the A, even they think they are moving on. To the OP: I am sorry for your situation. But its time to say goodbye for now. Its going to hurt, Im not going to lie to you. However, I feel that time reveals everything and soon you will look back when you *are* happy, and be peaceful with the decisions you made. Its time to let go. Best Wishes
Owl Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 I agree, but I don't have any control over what she does. All I can control is what I do. Agreed. You could set the boundary that the only way you'd consider continuing a "friendship" with her under the circumstances where she has been totally honest with her H and got everything out in the open and dealt with. That's within th escope of your control.
spice4life Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Agreed. You could set the boundary that the only way you'd consider continuing a "friendship" with her under the circumstances where she has been totally honest with her H and got everything out in the open and dealt with. That's within th escope of your control. As always, very sage advice from Owl. You should tell her, if she can't be out in the open and honest all the way around, then there is no chance for a friendship. I still think time will heal all of your wounds though. You might find one day that you don't need her friendship after all. Good luck!
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