Women and why we're afraid to ask for what we want

[curlygirl40]

So before I go into my rant, I just want to make sure you all know that I KNOW that there are men out there who want a relationship. And I KNOW that there are women out there that don’t want a relationship right now, so they are willing to date casually, FWB, etc. But this is for the women out there, like some friends of mine, like myself sometimes, like some women on this board who ask ‘why won’t he introduce me to his family, why does he go days without contact, why, why, why?’

 

This all came about because I have a best friend who is a guy. We’ve been friends since middle school. We’re in our 40’s now. He’s like a brother.

 

He was in a relationship recently for about 1.5 years. It just ended. He was completely faithful to her. For a few months towards the end of the relationship there was this girl who was in hot pursuit of him. Sending naked pics, sending racy texts, the whole bit. So now that he’s not in a relationship he gets together with her. At her suggestion, late one night. No dinner. No date. She comes to his place late at night. They spend hours together. After I say to him the next day ‘what do you think she’s going to want from this?’ he says ‘I’m betting she will want more, but I told her I couldn’t do more right now’.

 

Then a week later as they are texting she says to him ‘I can’t wait to go on a date with you, I enjoy being with you’. What?!

 

So she’s reducing herself to luring him in for months. Then she finally gets ‘her’ way, after months of playing with him. She’s not asking him to take her to dinner, to treat her like a lady, to date her. She is putting herself out there to F, but she’s not asking for anything in return, but yet she's going to hope for more. He already suspects she’s going to ask for more. But it’s probably too late for her. You can’t lure a guy in with your body and then hope he treats you like a lady after. Now it could happen, I know it does happen sometimes. But why would you put yourself in that position where you’re willing to just put your body out there and expect nothing in return, but secretly hope for something anyway?

 

This sent me into a tailspin which resulted in this post, because it makes me angry. Women, including myself, and the way we think sometimes.

 

If he wanted a relationship with her, if he was attracted to her and ready for a relationship, she wouldn’t have had to lure him in for months with sext texts.

 

There’s a big difference between eating the cookies on the counter, and getting in your car and going to the grocery store to choose some cookies to bring home and enjoy. Women, we are putting the cookies on the counter. And the men in our lives are eating them because we have placed them there. So easily.

 

We are putting the cookies on the counter and sometimes secretly hoping that those cookies are so good that the men will only want that one kind of cookie for a long time. Not always realizing what we are doing to ourselves.

 

Us women need to realize that ‘I can’t do a relationship right now’ is sometimes code for ‘I want to sleep with other women’ or ‘I want to keep my options open’. Either way, we need to listen.

 

When my friend said to her ‘I can’t do a relationship right now’ what she was probably thinking was ‘Oh, the poor guy just got out of a relationship, he’s not ready for anything serious. Maybe if I hang in there he will eventually be ready and he’ll choose me’. Well he’s my best friend so I know what he’s doing right now. Sleeping with other women. Of course he’ll sleep with her because she’s making it easy on him. He will probably even take her out to dinner sometimes. But he’s sleeping around on the side. While she goes home and then tries to interpret every word he said to her, every text they sent each other, every passionate look he gave her while they were in bed, he is keeping his options open.

 

We are allowing ourselves to be treated this way and men are enjoying it. Why would they want to be in relationships when we are letting them not be? We are giving them all that they want. Love. Sex. daily contact and ego stroking. But we are asking for none of what we want in return. Because god forbid we ask for something that we need out of it and then have them run in the other direction and be left there holding nothing.

 

Something is better than nothing, we decide. A crumb here and there of their affection is better than sitting at home with nothing to do because the men in our lives will not do relationships. We have taught them to treat us this way. And we are afraid to demand more in fear of them leaving us because there will be some other woman willing to put the cookies on the counter.

 

And that will leave us lonely. And nobody wants that.

 

Men are sometimes conditioned by what WE do and say and expect. They don’t do this to us, WE do. God forbid we be left there holding nothing.....until we realize that "nothing" really is “something”. It’s our dignity, our respect, the opportunity to be available when someone comes along who will want to be in a relationship with us.

 

But that’s not the only tragic part. The other piece is that many of these guys have the potential to be fantastic partners.

 

They have the potential to be amazing and wonderful and we rob them of that. We expect so little from them. We take what we can get and we take a decent man with the potential to be an incredible guy to be in a relationship with, and we turn him into someone selfish. WE did that. WE allowed the way he treated us. He couldn’t have done it without OUR permission.

 

We take the scraps, the crumbs, of what they are willing to give us, in fear that if we tell them what we really want that they will leave us. But really, what do we have? Nothing. Just hopes for more someday. Women, we are better than that. Start asking for what you want. I want to meet your family, I want to be in an exclusive relationship, I want…. If they then can’t do that, what did you have really?

 

It gets you angry if you let it. But all we can do is change our attitudes and value ourselves and demand more for ourselves instead of telling ourselves that we don’t really want more.

 

And again, before you blast me. I know this doesn’t describe every man and every woman and how we always treat each other. But it’s going on and we all see it.

[Kelemort]

Sex is a numbers game and men consistently win.

 

Women outnumber men - so men have more options than women do. More men are gay than women are lesbians, which narrows the dating pool even further. Sexuality is much more rigid in man than it is in women...which doesn't help the case for women finding men. We live in a patriarchal society that conditions women to work for men, to please men, to look good for men. It's no wonder that women are willing to quickly sleep with a guy to reel him in. They get desperate.

 

It's unfortunate. I've only been in one sexual relationship and it was a year into the relationship before we slept together. We'd known each other for a few years by that point. I didn't want to put the cookies on the counter, nor will I. It helps in my case that I'm not particularly attractive, so it's not like I have men swarming me. I had to learn to get by and make myself a valuable asset to men in other ways - besides sexually.

 

I do think women are prone to thinking men will come around. They trust too easily. If a man wants to sleep with me before a relationship or even early into an exclusive relationship, that's it for me. I have no interest in it. There are a lot of risks in sex for me, even with the contraceptive methods I use.

 

I'm more likely to catch an STD from a man than a man is to catch an STD from me. And then there's pregnancy. If I can't be sure that he's going to stick around with me for the long haul, wth am I doing sleeping with him? I prefer to let some of that hormonal rush wear off before I sleep with him. I want to see who he really is and if he's worth sleeping with. Most of the populace here on LS would be out long before I'd sleep with any of them...and that's fine. I just think that for me, I'm being as responsible as I can possibly be regarding the whole thing.

 

Putting the cookies on the counter is a bad idea if you want a long-term relationship.

 

Just for a reversal of roles, I am in a live-in relationship where my male partner wants to get married. I don't really want to marry. I guess his cookies are on the counter now or something...? I can't quite tell. In any case, I know my situation is unusual.

[carhill]

Something is better than nothing, we decide. A crumb here and there of their affection is better than sitting at home with nothing to do because the men in our lives will not do relationships. We have taught them to treat us this way. And we are afraid to demand more in fear of them leaving us because there will be some other woman willing to put the cookies on the counter.

 

And that will leave us lonely. And nobody wants that.

IMO, surround oneself with relationship-oriented people and one is more likely to meet same. I think one's social circle is important in this regard. That said, finding the matchup of relationship style and attraction is often difficult, so there is alone time involved. Each of us has choices as to how we handle this dynamic.

 

Asking for what you want is healthy. I encourage it. Most of the women I meet are pretty straightforward about it.

 

'I need sex. I deserve sex'

 

'Yes, you do. I understand. Talk to your husband about it'

 

I make no bones about my relationship style. Unlike your best male friend, I do not 'sleep' with women as recreation. It's no surprise that my circle of close friends, both male and female are generally married for many years or decades. Perhaps surrounding yourself with more marriage and relationship-centric men will assist in meeting such a man if that is your goal. Since, from reading your OP, marriage apparently isn't a goal for you, continue with the status quo. In any event, good luck.

[musemaj11]

The greatest mistake that women make is using her sexuality to get a man and shocked to find out later that the man is only interested in her sexuality first and everything else second. This is like a guy who throws his money in order to get a woman and shocked to find out that she is actually a gold digger.

 

I mean seriously people? If you want a tiger, dont be using a carrot as a bait and be surprised that you end up catching a rabbit.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm sure you're making some points here that many could use. But I don't think of my body and vagina as "cookies" to give or keep to myself, anymore than I think of the man's body or penis as cookies for me. If I have sex, it's because I want to have sex -- never because I want to get something else.

[sally4sara]

I'm sure you're making some points here that many could use. But I don't think of my body and vagina as "cookies" to give or keep to myself, anymore than I think of the man's body or penis as cookies for me. If I have sex, it's because I want to have sex -- never because I want to get something else.

 

Absolutely!

 

I kinda get tired of this idea that the one prize a woman has is her vagina and if it doesn't get her Prince Charming and a Happily Ever After, she is friggen doomed. Please. Maybe that was the case generations ago but not now.

 

How about setting your sites a little higher? What can you make of your life beyond your vagina and what it can or can't get you? A man will come along or he won't but if you're living your life to the best of your abilities, you can be happy regardless. And then when a guy uhhh eats your cookies and then takes off or whether he doesn't eat your cookies, gets to know you and STILL TAKES OFF, or even if he fits in your life, you in his and y'all get on fabulously - however it turns out, your entire being wasn't on the line over how it all turned out.

[FitChick]

I have no problem asking for what I want from a man. It has to do with self-esteem. If you believe that you are undeserving, you won't ask and you won't get. If you ask and are told 'No,' you are no worse off than you were before.

[Mr. Slim]

The greatest mistake that women make is using her sexuality to get a man and shocked to find out later that the man is only interested in her sexuality first and everything else second. This is like a guy who throws his money in order to get a woman and shocked to find out that she is actually a gold digger.

 

I mean seriously people? If you want a tiger, dont be using a carrot as a bait and be surprised that you end up catching a rabbit.

 

I can only speak for myself but women using their sexuality to try to "get" me has always been a pretty effective tactic (for them).

[Shaun-Dro]

So before I go into my rant, I just want to make sure you all know that I KNOW that there are men out there who want a relationship. And I KNOW that there are women out there that don’t want a relationship right now, so they are willing to date casually, FWB, etc. But this is for the women out there, like some friends of mine, like myself sometimes, like some women on this board who ask ‘why won’t he introduce me to his family, why does he go days without contact, why, why, why?’

 

This all came about because I have a best friend who is a guy. We’ve been friends since middle school. We’re in our 40’s now. He’s like a brother.

 

He was in a relationship recently for about 1.5 years. It just ended. He was completely faithful to her. For a few months towards the end of the relationship there was this girl who was in hot pursuit of him. Sending naked pics, sending racy texts, the whole bit. So now that he’s not in a relationship he gets together with her. At her suggestion, late one night. No dinner. No date. She comes to his place late at night. They spend hours together. After I say to him the next day ‘what do you think she’s going to want from this?’ he says ‘I’m betting she will want more, but I told her I couldn’t do more right now’.

 

Then a week later as they are texting she says to him ‘I can’t wait to go on a date with you, I enjoy being with you’. What?!

 

So she’s reducing herself to luring him in for months. Then she finally gets ‘her’ way, after months of playing with him. She’s not asking him to take her to dinner, to treat her like a lady, to date her. She is putting herself out there to F, but she’s not asking for anything in return, but yet she's going to hope for more. He already suspects she’s going to ask for more. But it’s probably too late for her. You can’t lure a guy in with your body and then hope he treats you like a lady after. Now it could happen, I know it does happen sometimes. But why would you put yourself in that position where you’re willing to just put your body out there and expect nothing in return, but secretly hope for something anyway?

 

This sent me into a tailspin which resulted in this post, because it makes me angry. Women, including myself, and the way we think sometimes.

 

If he wanted a relationship with her, if he was attracted to her and ready for a relationship, she wouldn’t have had to lure him in for months with sext texts.

 

There’s a big difference between eating the cookies on the counter, and getting in your car and going to the grocery store to choose some cookies to bring home and enjoy. Women, we are putting the cookies on the counter. And the men in our lives are eating them because we have placed them there. So easily.

 

We are putting the cookies on the counter and sometimes secretly hoping that those cookies are so good that the men will only want that one kind of cookie for a long time. Not always realizing what we are doing to ourselves.

 

Us women need to realize that ‘I can’t do a relationship right now’ is sometimes code for ‘I want to sleep with other women’ or ‘I want to keep my options open’. Either way, we need to listen.

 

When my friend said to her ‘I can’t do a relationship right now’ what she was probably thinking was ‘Oh, the poor guy just got out of a relationship, he’s not ready for anything serious. Maybe if I hang in there he will eventually be ready and he’ll choose me’. Well he’s my best friend so I know what he’s doing right now. Sleeping with other women. Of course he’ll sleep with her because she’s making it easy on him. He will probably even take her out to dinner sometimes. But he’s sleeping around on the side. While she goes home and then tries to interpret every word he said to her, every text they sent each other, every passionate look he gave her while they were in bed, he is keeping his options open.

 

We are allowing ourselves to be treated this way and men are enjoying it. Why would they want to be in relationships when we are letting them not be? We are giving them all that they want. Love. Sex. daily contact and ego stroking. But we are asking for none of what we want in return. Because god forbid we ask for something that we need out of it and then have them run in the other direction and be left there holding nothing.

 

Something is better than nothing, we decide. A crumb here and there of their affection is better than sitting at home with nothing to do because the men in our lives will not do relationships. We have taught them to treat us this way. And we are afraid to demand more in fear of them leaving us because there will be some other woman willing to put the cookies on the counter.

 

And that will leave us lonely. And nobody wants that.

 

Men are sometimes conditioned by what WE do and say and expect. They don’t do this to us, WE do. God forbid we be left there holding nothing.....until we realize that "nothing" really is “something”. It’s our dignity, our respect, the opportunity to be available when someone comes along who will want to be in a relationship with us.

 

But that’s not the only tragic part. The other piece is that many of these guys have the potential to be fantastic partners.

 

They have the potential to be amazing and wonderful and we rob them of that. We expect so little from them. We take what we can get and we take a decent man with the potential to be an incredible guy to be in a relationship with, and we turn him into someone selfish. WE did that. WE allowed the way he treated us. He couldn’t have done it without OUR permission.

 

We take the scraps, the crumbs, of what they are willing to give us, in fear that if we tell them what we really want that they will leave us. But really, what do we have? Nothing. Just hopes for more someday. Women, we are better than that. Start asking for what you want. I want to meet your family, I want to be in an exclusive relationship, I want…. If they then can’t do that, what did you have really?

 

It gets you angry if you let it. But all we can do is change our attitudes and value ourselves and demand more for ourselves instead of telling ourselves that we don’t really want more.

 

And again, before you blast me. I know this doesn’t describe every man and every woman and how we always treat each other. But it’s going on and we all see it.

 

This would be great if a lot more women were this way: easy. But they're not from what I've viewed. They usually throw their cookies on the table, like you said, when they're over the hill (40s) and are desperate now that they've lost so much time already.

 

Younger, attractive women never do this. A man has to chase her to the point of exhaustion. In other words, it's in reverse, where his cookies are all over the counter for her to choose. But this is the price I must pay to have a sexy dame, as well as others in hot pursuit.

[John Michael Kane]

I'm sure you're making some points here that many could use. But I don't think of my body and vagina as "cookies" to give or keep to myself, anymore than I think of the man's body or penis as cookies for me. If I have sex, it's because I want to have sex -- never because I want to get something else.

 

Agreed. Ulterior motives are bad.

[grkBoy]

curlygirl40, this girl in question never got "her way". The move to simply bang him was her illogical thinking that perhaps if she gave him sex he would grow attached to her. I've seen many men do this same thinking when trying to get certain girls.

 

Th problem with this girl and many like her is she sees all men as "echelons". She looks at your friend as an upper one, while she might look at single available men out there as "eh", "bland", or "so not hot".

 

Now imagine if she were to wake up and find all the guys like your friend are happily married and the ONLY single men out there are guys like the ones I mentioned? We would think a logical person would then pick someone from her available dating pool, but she still wanted the ego boost of hopefully "stealing" a guy and landing herself what she believes is an "upper echelon" man.

 

I won't fault your friend. Some might want to call him a playa or jerk, but I see him more as a "ladies man". A guy who can get girls into bed without giving anything, but yet he'll be honest and make it clear he has no intentions of pursuing a RL with these women.

 

The women themselves though buy into lipstick feminism, romance novels, and chick flicks...so they keep believing they can "change his mind". Plus I've seen many who readily admit they would rather try to "work on" a guy like him than "settle" for someone single, available, and ready for a RL.

 

In their minds, it's like a girl I've seen post here in the past. This one would complain why all the hot successful guys are taken or just want sex, while all the guys who want relationships are ugly and boring. She would occasionally post her shallow complaint on why she can't have it all.

 

The reality though is men and women have to think in terms of their AVAILABLE DATING POOL. Cancel out all the taken people and people who don't want what you want. Go with the bunch who want what you want, and then find someone in that bunch whom you like. The problem though is in these times, the hot successful guys most women want know they're in demand and have loads of options...so they choose to remain single and let the girls give them sex while fighting one another over them.

 

I've told it before to women that if you meet a man who has loads of options and readily uses them, don't assume he'll give it all up just to marry you and give you children.

 

Imagine if all the "upper echelon" guys one day decided to all get vasectomies and signed a pledge that they will never commit to anyone. What would women like the one in question do? Many would be pissed, some would then "settle" for the average guy, others would "settle" for just being a plaything for these guys.

 

This isn't going to change though. Not while men and women are wired they way they are through media and such, telling them to be hot and stay single...or to give sex in the hopes it'll "win" someone over. Insecurity and low self-esteem only put big targets on people.

[Minotaur]

You pretty much described everything that's gone down with ME to a T.

 

I think you're rigth on the money. I'm terrified of being alone and lonely. I'll pretty much take anything he gives me even though I know I'm his god damned pet. Roll over beethoven...

 

I'll break up with him if YOU agree to marry me. I make really good cookies.

[grkBoy]

I'm terrified of being alone and lonely.

 

That's what you need to work on. I know I had to do this in the past.

 

Like I tell the guys, learn to find your own inner happiness and self-fulfillment. Too many men and women think a significant other is the answer to their problems when they need to really look at themselves and find out what will make them happy in life.

 

Best approach is to imagine if God (or any deity you believe in), came out of the sky, apologized, and told you that there is no one on the planet meant for you...that you are destined to grow old and die alone.

 

Now then...imagine you get that...and find out you'll never find someone...what would you do? How would you spend the rest of your life?

 

That's what I did...and it honestly became liberating.

[dispatch3d]

Not sure if I've ever met those women. I guess one or two in the past year->two. I honestly don't sleep with them if I'm not interested. Bah.

[AutumnB]

This would be great if a lot more women were this way: easy. But they're not from what I've viewed. They usually throw their cookies on the table, like you said, when they're over the hill (40s) and are desperate now that they've lost so much time already.

 

Younger, attractive women never do this. A man has to chase her to the point of exhaustion. In other words, it's in reverse, where his cookies are all over the counter for her to choose. But this is the price I must pay to have a sexy dame, as well as others in hot pursuit.

 

I can confirm that this is too much of a generalization. It wasn't UNTIL I was over 40 that I finally realized my own worth and that I didn't need to give up what I desired just to keep a man. When I was young, I was foolish and naive. I am now older and wiser as they say. I guess the price for my own self esteem was "youth". But the great thing is now, I won't compromise and if that means living life alone, I'm okay with that.

 

And just, FYI, there are a LOT of very attractive and SEXY over 40 individuals. Men and women included.

[Scottdmw]

curlygirl40, this girl in question never got "her way". The move to simply bang him was her illogical thinking that perhaps if she gave him sex he would grow attached to her. I've seen many men do this same thinking when trying to get certain girls.

 

Th problem with this girl and many like her is she sees all men as "echelons". She looks at your friend as an upper one, while she might look at single available men out there as "eh", "bland", or "so not hot".

 

Now imagine if she were to wake up and find all the guys like your friend are happily married and the ONLY single men out there are guys like the ones I mentioned? We would think a logical person would then pick someone from her available dating pool, but she still wanted the ego boost of hopefully "stealing" a guy and landing herself what she believes is an "upper echelon" man.

 

I won't fault your friend. Some might want to call him a playa or jerk, but I see him more as a "ladies man". A guy who can get girls into bed without giving anything, but yet he'll be honest and make it clear he has no intentions of pursuing a RL with these women.

 

The women themselves though buy into lipstick feminism, romance novels, and chick flicks...so they keep believing they can "change his mind". Plus I've seen many who readily admit they would rather try to "work on" a guy like him than "settle" for someone single, available, and ready for a RL.

 

In their minds, it's like a girl I've seen post here in the past. This one would complain why all the hot successful guys are taken or just want sex, while all the guys who want relationships are ugly and boring. She would occasionally post her shallow complaint on why she can't have it all.

 

The reality though is men and women have to think in terms of their AVAILABLE DATING POOL. Cancel out all the taken people and people who don't want what you want. Go with the bunch who want what you want, and then find someone in that bunch whom you like. The problem though is in these times, the hot successful guys most women want know they're in demand and have loads of options...so they choose to remain single and let the girls give them sex while fighting one another over them.

 

I've told it before to women that if you meet a man who has loads of options and readily uses them, don't assume he'll give it all up just to marry you and give you children.

 

Imagine if all the "upper echelon" guys one day decided to all get vasectomies and signed a pledge that they will never commit to anyone. What would women like the one in question do? Many would be pissed, some would then "settle" for the average guy, others would "settle" for just being a plaything for these guys.

 

This isn't going to change though. Not while men and women are wired they way they are through media and such, telling them to be hot and stay single...or to give sex in the hopes it'll "win" someone over. Insecurity and low self-esteem only put big targets on people.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head, and this is the other half of the tragedy.

 

The OP’s friend is getting hit on by several women at the same time, all of whom want to be with him, all of whom are willing to sleep with him without a commitment in hopes of accomplishing that. Meanwhile, there are several men out there that don't have any woman at all in their lives.

 

I think this is where the logic of overly easy sex leads. The most attractive men get to sleep with a number of women without ever needing to offer a relationship or anything. The women get to sleep with those men, but rarely get a relationship. And, the rest of the men get neither. In the end few relationships are formed. Everybody involved does what feels right and what comes naturally, everybody involved goes after the best person they can find and the most of what they hope will make them happy, yet only the top-level men end up getting what they want while the rest of the men and all the women don’t really get what they want.

 

To the women, what they see is a world full of jerks and players who will not commit, plus a bunch of “boring” men.

 

This sort of thing isn't going to change unless women choose to value a relationship over sex with the most attractive possible man.

 

Scott

[Kamille]

The most attractive men get to sleep with a number of women without ever needing to offer a relationship or anything.

 

 

All depends on how you define an attractive man. To me, an attractive man is someone who has qualities that would make him a great relationship partner: communication skills, sense of humor, loyalty, takes care of himself, capacity to commit, etc. I am not, and few of my friends are, a slave to physical good looks. I think you and a few others here perceive an injustice that isn't really there because you're jealous of men who "get" women, and falsely assume it's all based on looks. For some women it is, for many it isn't. Not all women are in the same space in their lives, and just like women shouldn't settle for crumbs, neither should you. Both men and women vary greatly in what they expect and what they offer.

 

In this, I think I can see where curlygirl is coming from. Knowing what you want and not settling for less will get both men and women closer to getting what they want.

[GoodOnPaper]

The most attractive men get to sleep with a number of women without ever needing to offer a relationship or anything. The women get to sleep with those men, but rarely get a relationship. And, the rest of the men get neither. In the end few relationships are formed. Everybody involved does what feels right and what comes naturally, everybody involved goes after the best person they can find and the most of what they hope will make them happy, yet only the top-level men end up getting what they want while the rest of the men and all the women don’t really get what they want.

 

It does seem that this is the way of the world now. Funny thing is that terms like "high-quality" are thrown around in threads like this. Supposedly, "high-quality" men are relationship-minded but the unspoken part is that they are also supposed to be hot enough to attract multiple women at any given time. Being relationship-minded but not able to attract lots of women gets you landed in the "boring" or "loser" pool. There is just no way to avoid having to win this attraction game . . .

[threebyfate]

‘I can’t do a relationship right now’

This is all that needs to be said. Believe it and if they changed their minds and you too wish for more, then it's go-forward.

 

I once dated a man who told me he wasn't looking for a relationship on our first date even though he'd been in hot pursuit, prior. Since I too wasn't looking for a relationship, casual dating was fine. After a very, very short dating period, he wanted an exclusive relationship and I still didn't. So after much pressure, I agreed to a short-term relationship with an expiry date since he wasn't a full-time resident in my location and his job took him all over the world. After that, he then wanted a long-term relationship where I shut it down since in my opinion, our lifestyles weren't compatible.

 

So men do change their minds but not if you don't value yourself.

[Kamille]

It does seem that this is the way of the world now. Funny thing is that terms like "high-quality" are thrown around in threads like this. Supposedly, "high-quality" men are relationship-minded but the unspoken part is that they are also supposed to be hot enough to attract multiple women at any given time. Being relationship-minded but not able to attract lots of women gets you landed in the "boring" or "loser" pool. There is just no way to avoid having to win this attraction game . . .

 

Not just relationship minded: a man has to be a good communicator, fun to be around, easy to relate too, easy-going (for me), smart, have a good sense of humor, capable of empathy. In other words, being relationship minded doesn't suffice as a quality to be attractive. You also have to know how to relate to and have fun with other people, women included.

[GoodOnPaper]

Without the surface attractiveness, these qualities won't attract the attention of multiple women -- which is what seems to be required for a guy to meet the "high quality" threshold.

[thatone]

what do men tell each other all the time on this forum? when some woman tries to friend zone them or tell them "they're not looking right now" they should instantly walk away. your "high quality" men do this all the time, actually. they will not chase some woman who is telling him that she won't be caught, they will write her off and move on to the next one.

 

just as women deny sex to men, men deny women attention.

 

women who want a relationship and try to get it via sex with an unavailable man are no different than men who want sex and try to get it with an unavailable woman by mimicking a relationship.

[ChessPieceFace]

This sent me into a tailspin which resulted in this post, because it makes me angry. Women, including myself, and the way we think sometimes.

 

When it comes to actions regarding men, women don't think, that's the problem. They do something which appears on the surface to be like thinking, but is really just a mechanation of emotions leading to an outcome based on those emotions.

 

Women's thought processes have one major purpose -- to justify their actions. The actions were taken before the thought process. Yeah I'm bitter as !%$@ but I'm also right.