Innocent until proven guilty??

[reboot]

You said he needs to take responsibility for her affair. He doesn't. She's the one who needs to own it.

 

I never said anything remotely resembling that and you know it. My stance on that is well known here. The BS has NO responsibility for the affair. For the state of the marriage? Yes, very often, but never for the affair.

 

You go around trying to start arguments with people even if you have to invent them.

[John Michael Kane]

I never said anything remotely resembling that and you know it. My stance on that is well known here. The BS has NO responsibility for the affair. For the state of the marriage? Yes, very often, but never for the affair.

 

Dude, your post said it. Anyway, no big deal to me. Just pointing it out.

 

Often? Not always.

 

You go around trying to start arguments with people even if you have to invent them.

I'm not arguing with you. Sorry if you feel that way but to stay on topic, the wife needs to own her affair.

[reboot]

So quote where I said that. Please.

[linwood]

Without proof of a physical relationship do I move forward dealing with what I know or do I treat it like the worst case scenario?

 

I refer you to my first answer at post #8 in this thread.

Post #9 seems pretty good too.

 

My only additional advice is to ignore John Michael Kane in this and any other thread you might be involved in.

 

Give her the benefit of the doubt and keep an eye on her.

However you keep an eye on her is up to you.

[John Michael Kane]

I refer you to my first answer at post #8 in this thread.

Post #9 seems pretty good too.

 

My only additional advice is to ignore John Michael Kane in this and any other thread you might be involved in.

 

You can't control the advice he sees/given.

 

Give her the benefit of the doubt and keep an eye on her.

However you keep an eye on her is up to you.

 

I wouldn't give her the benefit of the doubt. She's been involved with him for too long and running up that cell phone bill. Keep an eye on her and wait until she slips up again.

[reboot]

I personally don't understand why the OP is going on about whether it became physical or not. Does that really make a difference? She HAD an affair regardless. Is that OK so long as there was no penetration? It isn't in my mind. Is this just a male ego thing?

[drifter777]

Does it really matter if it went physical? An affair is an affair. I understand that physical is perceived to be worse, but I could almost understand my wife having a moment of weakness and making a one time mistake. Is developing an emotional bond over a long period of time any better? Carrying on this relationship behind your back?

 

Yes, it absolutely matters to most men. The most difficult aspect of reconciliation is the pictures and movies of your wife having sex with another man that run in your head. When they occur you react to them with anger and disgust and often you cannot stand the sight of your wife. Whatever respect and trust you had for her is destroyed and the fact that she whore'd it up with some guy just eats at you.

 

I don't want to get into the "which is worse" debate, but I will say that when your wife screws another man it makes reconciliation much more difficult and takes much longer. Either way, if she does it again you just walk away and start a new life. Zero tolerance for a second occurrence of cheating.

 

Finally, if this guy lives in the same general area as you do then the chance that they had sex increases dramatically. If he does live close, then I would assume that she did have sex with him and confront her with your belief. If she continues to insists it never got physical then make her prove it somehow. Women caught in her situation will only reveal the truth when shown undeniable proof. She is a cheater and a liar so why would you believe anything she says? Keep digging and you will find the truth and don't believe a word she says.

[John Michael Kane]

I personally don't understand why the OP is going on about whether it became physical or not. Does that really make a difference? She HAD an affair regardless. Is that OK so long as there was no penetration? It isn't in my mind. Is this just a male ego thing?

 

Some BSs want to know different things and this isn't limited to just men, although men figuratively are more physical than women.

[nyrias]

I personally don't understand why the OP is going on about whether it became physical or not. Does that really make a difference? She HAD an affair regardless. Is that OK so long as there was no penetration? It isn't in my mind. Is this just a male ego thing?

 

It does. Dont you think it makes a big difference of whether there is a chance of STD?

[John Michael Kane]

It does. Dont you think it makes a big difference of whether there is a chance of STD?

 

Yup, I agree. That too.

[reboot]

It does. Dont you think it makes a big difference of whether there is a chance of STD?

 

I could probably live with the knowledge of a one night stand PA easier than a multi-year EA that never went physical. Had my wife ever told me she was in love with the OM that would have ended things right then and there. The latter is a betrayal of the heart. I dunno, maybe I'm the one with the weird ideas.

[drifter777]

I could probably live with the knowledge of a one night stand PA easier than a multi-year EA that never went physical. Had my wife ever told me she was in love with the OM that would have ended things right then and there. The latter is a betrayal of the heart. I dunno, maybe I'm the one with the weird ideas.

 

Clearly, we are all different and your ideas are not "weird". I feel exactly opposite, but that's just me. As I said, for many of us the mental images of wife screwing another man is a very, very difficult hurdle to cross on the road toward any reconciliation.

[nyrias]

I could probably live with the knowledge of a one night stand PA easier than a multi-year EA that never went physical. Had my wife ever told me she was in love with the OM that would have ended things right then and there. The latter is a betrayal of the heart. I dunno, maybe I'm the one with the weird ideas.

 

Well, i would not judge which one is "more" than the other.

 

However, it does not change the fact that PA has the possibility of STD while EA does not. That alone makes the two different.

 

(While EA can still be "worse" in your judgment")

[Spark1111]

Clearly, we are all different and your ideas are not "weird". I feel exactly opposite, but that's just me. As I said, for many of us the mental images of wife screwing another man is a very, very difficult hurdle to cross on the road toward any reconciliation.

 

All the men are thinking...like men. For men, recovery is most difficult when there has been a physical affair, because men are very visual about sex.

 

They cannot get the mind movies out of their heads, so it is hard to come to forgiveness.

 

Women, usually are more upset about the romantic emotional connection their husbands had during the affair.

 

Now, let's think like woman, since the OP is concerned about his wife.

 

The emotional connection she has developed with this man speaks volumes to how close (or maybe did) head towards a physical affair.

 

He is right to nip it in the bud and to monitor, very closely, what happens next.

 

He should also get them both to MC as soon as possible, IMO.

[OnyxSnowfall]

JMK - why are you so interested in jumping to CONCLUSIONS and advising people to destroy their marriages?

 

OP - I seriously doubt that she was emotionally interested in him. She probably was not physical --- you need to give her the benefit of doubt. It IS generic attention otherwise. It's NICE to feel noticed and desirable; that doesn't mean someone wants to BE with who they are noticed and desired by --- in the end it is a SELFISH thing... but an "affair?" Please.

 

The fact is, the guy probably wanted more with your wife but she wasn't into him, rather she just liked the INTANGIBLE reassurance he gave her. Maybe she just wants to feel desired by you more, who knows, have you been paying her compliments etc? Do you make remarks about other women being attractive etc?

 

At least try marriage counseling to get to the bottom of things. If you LOVE her, REALIZE she's a person too and perhaps she is telling you the truth and really just wants to be with you. I honestly don't think suspicion is worth tearing the marriage up over....

[drifter777]

All the men are thinking...like men. For men, recovery is most difficult when there has been a physical affair, because men are very visual about sex.

 

They cannot get the mind movies out of their heads, so it is hard to come to forgiveness.

 

Women, usually are more upset about the romantic emotional connection their husbands had during the affair.

 

Now, let's think like woman, since the OP is concerned about his wife.

 

The emotional connection she has developed with this man speaks volumes to how close (or maybe did) head towards a physical affair.

 

He is right to nip it in the bud and to monitor, very closely, what happens next.

 

He should also get them both to MC as soon as possible, IMO.

 

As you point out, men and women may view EA and PA differently however the OP is a man. That's why men are offering guidance to him based on our experiences. For many of us the physical aspect is simply harder to deal with and the fact that he caught his wife emotionally involved with this OM makes the probability of PA very real. We all know cheaters will lie and only provide the truth when it is undeniably documented so I will continue to urge the OP to assume they had sex if they live in close proximity.

[TurningTables]

Ok..Hiya guys~~> woman here. Most women connect sex with emotional attachment. I do believe that the OP has things to worry about. That many texts and calls says something was going on, whether it was EA or PA. Something is wrong somewhere.

 

If the OP is wondering what is going on in his W head, he needs to ask her. Ask her, why she felt the need to go outside her M and talk to another guy. Ask her all the questions that he has. Write them down if need be. Next step would be to ask her if she wants to continue in the M. Then, MC and IC for her. Something is not right when a spouse is talking/looking outside the M for things, esp women. Again, its not about sex for women.

 

It may be all innocent or it might not be. I know Im gonna get jumped for this but, taking away her cell phone was totally crazy. ( Im ready to answer about this guys! lol ) If anything is going on, he just sent it more underground. He could have kept a better eye on everything if he lets her keep it. Although, her owning up and letting him have the cell does give her some credit.

 

In thet end, go see a MC. Youve got some problems and hopefully, youve caught them before they got out of hand. Best wishes.

[nyrias]

JMK - why are you so interested in jumping to CONCLUSIONS and advising people to destroy their marriages?

 

Isn't that obvious? He is BS and his M ended in divorce so he is probably angry at all WS and does not want to see others reconcile and make their M works.

 

Very human, i would add.

[Spark1111]

Ok..Hiya guys~~> woman here. Most women connect sex with emotional attachment. I do believe that the OP has things to worry about. That many texts and calls says something was going on, whether it was EA or PA. Something is wrong somewhere.

 

If the OP is wondering what is going on in his W head, he needs to ask her. Ask her, why she felt the need to go outside her M and talk to another guy. Ask her all the questions that he has. Write them down if need be. Next step would be to ask her if she wants to continue in the M. Then, MC and IC for her. Something is not right when a spouse is talking/looking outside the M for things, esp women. Again, its not about sex for women.

 

It may be all innocent or it might not be. I know Im gonna get jumped for this but, taking away her cell phone was totally crazy. ( Im ready to answer about this guys! lol ) If anything is going on, he just sent it more underground. He could have kept a better eye on everything if he lets her keep it. Although, her owning up and letting him have the cell does give her some credit.

 

In thet end, go see a MC. Youve got some problems and hopefully, youve caught them before they got out of hand. Best wishes.

 

Good advice, from a woman re: a woman

[John Michael Kane]

JMK - why are you so interested in jumping to CONCLUSIONS and advising people to destroy their marriages?

 

I'm not jumping to conclusions nor am I advising people to destroy their marriages. When cheating happens the marriage has already been destroyed. I'm just stating the facts. You're trying to make it seem as if it's not such a big deal she's fooling around with this guy and that's dangerous thinking.

 

OP - I seriously doubt that she was emotionally interested in him.

Then why the flirty and excessive text messages?

 

She probably was not physical --- you need to give her the benefit of doubt.

From what she's been doing, he doesn't have to do anything except protecting himself and looking out for those kids.

 

It IS generic attention otherwise.

No such thing as generic attention. It's attention she should be using on her husband, not to another man who obviously is hitting on her and probably has done something physical with her.

 

It's NICE to feel noticed and desirable; that doesn't mean someone wants to BE with who they are noticed and desired by --- in the end it is a SELFISH thing... but an "affair?" Please.

Nothing wrong with saying someone looks good and moving on, but the evidence here is clear, no matter how much you want to ignore it. If you think flirting and texting other men excessively while you're in a relationship is not a big deal then that's you, but others and your partner will not accept that type of disrespect.

 

The fact is, the guy probably wanted more with your wife but she wasn't into him, rather she just liked the INTANGIBLE reassurance he gave her.

So you're acknowledging that the guy obviously is attracted to her, which further shows you're trying to downplay this as innocent, even though you know it truly isn't.

 

And what "reassurance" is he giving her if it's just something so innocent? What is it about? You're constantly using these words that have no basis to describe this situation as innocent.

 

Maybe she just wants to feel desired by you more, who knows, have you been paying her compliments etc?

If she wanted to feel desired and feels he hasn't paid any attention to her then she needs to tell him, not have an emotional and possible physical affair with some loser. And even if he was giving her compliments then she obviously didn't care. Giving compliments will not stop someone from cheating.

 

Do you make remarks about other women being attractive etc?

Off-topic.

 

At least try marriage counseling to get to the bottom of things.

Why should he, when his wife has been cheating on him? Is she even remorseful? No.

 

If you LOVE her, REALIZE she's a person too and perhaps she is telling you the truth and really just wants to be with you.

I'm sure he REALIZES that his wife has been chatting it up with another man. Just because she's a "person" doesn't excuse cheating.

 

I honestly don't think suspicion is worth tearing the marriage up over....

He won't be tearing up something that has already been destroyed, and it wasn't by him.

[John Michael Kane]

Isn't that obvious? He is BS and his M ended in divorce so he is probably angry at all WS and does not want to see others reconcile and make their M works.

 

Nice assumption but way off-track.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Isn't that obvious? He is BS and his M ended in divorce so he is probably angry at all WS and does not want to see others reconcile and make their M works.

 

Very human, i would add.

 

I "try" to avoid assumptions, even if something "seems" very obvious... I suppose assumptions have gotten me into my fair share of binds and I'm, currently, much more interested in gathering information.

 

So inquiry --- when you state, "Very human, I would add."... is that your way of sympathizing or is that sarcastic? Lol.

 

JMK - I don't truly know if it's innocent or not, neither do you. I don't think anyone here can really judge this... but SUSPICION doesn't deserve the power to destroy a marriage. You don't know if the marriage was destroyed prior and you don't know if his wife was getting some of the side or not... or if she is really sorry. Heck, spouses have forgiven each other for worse than carrying on correspondence with someone else.

 

OP - really... it isn't right to "punish" for what you do not know. Either you learn to trust or you learn to let go...

[John Michael Kane]

JMK - I don't truly know if it's innocent or not, neither do you.

 

Uh yes I do and I'm not the only one here who sees this is an affair. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't mean I have the same stance as you.

 

I don't think anyone here can really judge this...

 

We judge all the time. We're even doing it now.

 

but SUSPICION doesn't deserve the power to destroy a marriage.

 

It's not suspicion, there's actual evidence that he stated, which points to an emotional and possible physical affair. And when an affair is started, the marriage has been destroyed.

 

You don't know if the marriage was destroyed prior and you don't know if his wife was getting some of the side or not... or if she is really sorry.

 

Yes I do, and others do also. This marriage has been tainted by her cheating. That's a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.

 

Heck, spouses have forgiven each other for worse than carrying on correspondence with someone else.

 

But see we're not discussing other things.

 

OP - really... it isn't right to "punish" for what you do not know.

 

He's not punishing his wife if he chooses to not put up with her cheating. She knew what she was doing was wrong from the beginning.

 

Either you learn to trust or you learn to let go...

 

So either he accepts her cheating or he's "destroying the marriage."

[OnyxSnowfall]

JMK - you know, at one time people believed that the world was "flat" --- even if a majority "believes" something... it doesn't make it true. I could really careless if other people regard this as an "affair"... what's important is whether the OP does. You amaze me with the hypocrisy that I can draw from the other thread wherein you thought of "cheating" as BLACK AND WHITE... and YET, being addicted to porn (and lusting heavily for others) isn't cheating in your head, but TEXTING/calling someone (which the wife already admitted that the frequency was inappropriate) IS cheating?

 

The OP seems primarily concerned with HONESTY here... and whether or not his wife was PHYSICALLY involved with the person she was communicating with. I'm merely saying that IN MY EXPERIENCE I have corresponded with men, even "flirtatiously", whom I was NOT interested in sexually and whom I NEVER allowed to touch me physically. WHY DID I DO IT? Because my self-esteem was pillaged from other things. Was it wrong? Sure, I have long since learned from it and have ceased such behavior... and it was misleading on paper. But I did nothing with them and didn't want to and when one advanced upon me I pushed him away and cut off all contact on my own.

 

Stranger things have happened. My heart and body were still sealed to one individual... you want to call what I did as "cheating" lol... okay, but really I just needed the ego strokes. Something totally not worth ruining a relationship over... but if it wasn't forgiven, well, someone totally not worth being with IMO anyway. I guess luckily for me, I have a forgiving man who thinks our relationship is worth more than my episode of weakness... and who gives me the benefit of doubt to not repeat my mistakes there.

[John Michael Kane]

JMK - you know, at one time people believed that the world was "flat" --- even if a majority "believes" something... it doesn't make it true.

 

Off-topic.

 

I could really careless if other people regard this as an "affair"... what's important is whether the OP does.

So if you don't care, then don't care. Obviously if the OP posted this in the Infidelity section he does think it's an affair, and he's absolutely correct.

 

You amaze me with the hypocrisy that I can draw from the other thread wherein you thought of "cheating" as BLACK AND WHITE... and YET, being addicted to porn (and lusting heavily for others) isn't cheating in your head, but TEXTING/calling someone (which the wife already admitted that the frequency was inappropriate) IS cheating?

I must be kindly honest: This was a poor attempt at an analogy and a poor attempt to twist my words. Firstly that "thread" has nothing to do with OP's problem and secondly, porn and cheating are different subjects. Texting and calling another man excessively and letting him hit on you while you're with another man with kids IS cheating, for the millionth time.

 

The OP seems primarily concerned with HONESTY here... and whether or not his wife was PHYSICALLY involved with the person she was communicating with.

And he also brought up the emotional affair that she's having with this man.

 

I'm merely saying that IN MY EXPERIENCE I have corresponded with men, even "flirtatiously", whom I was NOT interested in sexually and whom I NEVER allowed to touch me physically.

Well that is YOUR experience, which has nothing to do with OP being cheated on by his wife.

 

WHY DID I DO IT? Because my self-esteem was pillaged from other things. Was it wrong? Sure, I have long since learned from it and have ceased such behavior... and it was misleading on paper. But I did nothing with them and didn't want to and when one advanced upon me I pushed him away and cut off all contact on my own.

This is off-topic. How is this going to help OP?

 

Stranger things have happened. My heart and body were still sealed to one individual... you want to call what I did as "cheating" lol... okay, but really I just needed the ego strokes. Something totally not worth ruining a relationship over... but if it wasn't forgiven, well, someone totally not worth being with IMO anyway. I guess luckily for me, I have a forgiving man who thinks our relationship is worth more than my episode of weakness... and who gives me the benefit of doubt to not repeat my mistakes there.

Again how does this unrelated subject help OP?