Why are there so many As??? Why???

[Seraph1]

Interesting points. I often wonder how authentic the things people do and say actually are and whether they are reflections of what we are told to believe. An "expected" or "right" way to behave, rather than out of true emotion.

 

It's an interesting point. I am glad that I ended my marriage on the basis of our differences rather than because of an affair. However, there were times in my marriage when I was so unhappy and nothing was getting better or being fixed that if another man had come along...I would probably have been swept away.

 

I don't agree with affairs because I see them as someone taking the easy rout rather than facing their relationship and their SO and taking a good long and hard look at them both.

[Seraph1]

 

I don't agree with affairs because I see them as someone taking the easy rout rather than facing their relationship and their SO and taking a good long and hard look at them both.

 

But boy... can I understand how they happen and why people would want them!

[bentnotbroken]

Is this a fact or a generalization?

 

What about the countless couples who have recovered their marriage and are very happy and have a stronger foundation than ever before? You know for a fact that 25% of marriages are only married because of religious or "other" reasons? Is recovered marriage an "other" reason? And why are you deciding the reasons why people do and do not stay married or get divorced?

 

 

That's because the statement was more speculation instead of generalization.

[waytogo]

Just my theory, but I think it's very often about ego. From much of what I've read, it's the partner that brings less home that more likely seeks validation outside. That doesn't necessarily mean less $.

[SoMovinOn]

Is this a fact or a generalization?

 

Even worse, it's a statistic!

 

 

What about the countless couples who have recovered their marriage and are very happy and have a stronger foundation than ever before?

 

What about them?

 

You know for a fact that 25% of marriages are only married because of religious or "other" reasons?

 

Nope.

 

Is recovered marriage an "other" reason?

 

Does it matter what the other reason is?

 

And why are you deciding the reasons why people do and do not stay married or get divorced?

 

Why are you flying off on some weird tangent? Was this your first encounter with statistics?

[Gentlegirl]

There are a few animal and bird species that mate for life... end of story.

 

Human don't ...end of story.

 

Gentlegirl

[denise_xo]

I don't really think there are more affairs, I just think that people are more open with what they do now. I do believe that the more self centered society gets the more people want to say, "hey, look at me, I can do what I want to make me happy...damn the consequences". I don't think most people are as ashamed as they used to be. It's like having children outside of marriage, it is no longer considered an automatic ticket outside of "proper society"(whatever the hell that is). I also believe affairs are being glamorized more by movies and the celebrity royalty.

 

I agree with a lot of this. I think affairs are human in the same way that a lot of other behaviours (good and bad) are typically human - that's an empirical rather than a normative statement. A friend of mine who is a psychologist said that appr. 70% of all marriages where I live will at some point by affected by some kind of infidelity. Of course these figures can never be entirely accurate, but the estimate seems credible to me and it was based on statistical research.

 

I also don't think a monogamous, life long marriage is particularly 'natural' for human beings (along with many other aspects of our lives that aren't natural). The institution of marriage has been a very significant and powerful way of organising society, for better and for worse. For many it's a struggle in various ways, at at times of break down one 'coping strategy' is to turn outwards (again, empirical not normative statement on my part).

Edited August 17, 2011 by denise_xo

[bentnotbroken]

hogwash...

 

the "human nature" argument is just "the devil made me do it" with a modern twist. there are a whole slew of things that could be said to be "human nature", yet we do not deem them acceptable ( rape, murder, incest, etc.)- in many cultures, these things were quietly considered acceptable, but modern society does not view them this way, as behavior that hurts others is not considered something to be accepted and acclaimed.

 

I, for one, do not view myself solely as a product of my "genes" or "human nature", I prefer to view myself as a sentient being, capable of making choices and taking the feelings of others into consideration when i do so.

 

 

:bunny::bunny::bunny:People don't like to take responsibility for all of their choices.They will immediately lay claim to any decision that is considered good and admirable but they have to have a reason, a cause to pin bad decisions on. It is always about something outside of ourselves to make us do such and such.

[jthorne]

There are a few animal and bird species that mate for life... end of story.

 

Human don't ...end of story.

 

Gentlegirl

These type of posts always crack me up, especially when coming from OW or other type cheaters.

 

If this is the case, then why do OW get all bent out of shape when MM takes an OOW? Or why if MM leaves the M does the OW expect fidelity afterwards?

 

Can't have it both ways.

[skywriter]

The why's are just as individual as the A's.

 

I found out recently that my neighbor with whom I was fairly close, has moved out, because her and her H of 14 yrs are divorcing.

 

I was very disappointed to hear that they were splitting up and that she was moving away.

 

She was a great neighbor and I could depend on her to watch my house when I am away. But anyway the point of my mentioning this is, I called her to just check on her and let her know she was in my thoughts. I missed having her around, really.

 

We got to talking and she confided in me that she's moved in with a MM. I was really taken back by that information!

 

First of all, she and I had many conversations in the past about infidelity and she would say how anyone who had an A was such a terrible person and that she'd never, ever do such a thing.

 

Come to find out, from her, ( and her words), it just happened, because he was having trouble in his twenty something yr marriage and she in her marriage.

 

So, I'd say as to a why do A's happen, vulnerable people, in vulnerable situations, can possibly cause you to look towards another person to have your needs met. That is no excuse and it isn't necessarily the right thing to do, but it's a reason some may give.

[Buck Turgidson]

hogwash...

 

the "human nature" argument is just "the devil made me do it" with a modern twist.

 

No it isn't. In fact, I made no argument at all except to suggest that we're asking the wrong question. The question really should be, that given human nature and the 70% of marraiges affected by infidelity business, etc., why do we have this institution at all? What purposes does it serve? Why do we consider ourselves "civilized" in this way? Most civilizations do not have mandatory monogamy for life. Why do we?

 

The problem is not that people cheat, full stop. It's that (a) people cheat, and (b) their partners are socially conditioned to take that as the most horrible thing a person could possibly do to another person. It's the combination of those TWO things, not just the first thing, that causes the pain. (a) has always been true, throughout human history. It seems unlikely to change under any circumstance. (b) has only been true in (i) the west and countries socially connected thereunto, and (ii) within the last 200 years or so. In other times and places, (b) has not been the case.

 

If we were to change our social conditioning, so as not to label a more or less inevitable event a complete emotional disaster so bad that nothing can cure it, then some of that pain, which would otherwise be inevitable no matter what we do, would be eliminated.

 

as behavior that hurts others is not considered something to be accepted and acclaimed.

 

Cheating is not murder or rape, which hurt because of their physical natures. Cheating hurts because we are socially conditioned to take it that way. Remove the social conditioning and it doesn't hurt as much, or at all.

 

I, for one, do not view myself solely as a product of my "genes" or "human nature", I prefer to view myself as a sentient being, capable of making choices and taking the feelings of others into consideration when i do so.

 

But your choices are colored by your culture. It cannot be any other way. You're not as free an agent as you'd like to think.

[jthorne]

No it isn't. In fact, I made no argument at all except to suggest that we're asking the wrong question. The question really should be, that given human nature and the 70% of marraiges affected by infidelity business, etc., why do we have this institution at all? What purposes does it serve? Why do we consider ourselves "civilized" in this way? Most civilizations do not have mandatory monogamy for life. Why do we?

 

The problem is not that people cheat, full stop. It's that (a) people cheat, and (b) their partners are socially conditioned to take that as the most horrible thing a person could possibly do to another person. It's the combination of those TWO things, not just the first thing, that causes the pain. (a) has always been true, throughout human history. It seems unlikely to change under any circumstance. (b) has only been true in (i) the west and countries socially connected thereunto, and (ii) within the last 200 years or so. In other times and places, (b) has not been the case.

 

If we were to change our social conditioning, so as not to label a more or less inevitable event a complete emotional disaster so bad that nothing can cure it, then some of that pain, which would otherwise be inevitable no matter what we do, would be eliminated.

 

 

 

Cheating is not murder or rape, which hurt because of their physical natures. Cheating hurts because we are socially conditioned to take it that way. Remove the social conditioning and it doesn't hurt as much, or at all.

 

 

 

But your choices are colored by your culture. It cannot be any other way. You're not as free an agent as you'd like to think.

Yeah, ok. That's like saying I should get rid of my sports car because it can go over 200mph and the state law is max of 70. Uh huh, ok.

 

I don't know where you live, but where I live, people are brought up with self control.

[Buck Turgidson]

 

"adultery" did not only become considered unacceptable 200 years ago ( not christian myself, but I believe it was mentioned in their main religious texts somewhere-lol).

 

And of course, Christians and the Christian church have always, without any exception whatsoever, agglutinated everything in the Book into culture.

 

But you're right. "200 years" was an exaggeration. 200 years ago, in 1811, the Victorian age was dawning, in which gentlemen of breeding were socially expected to see prostitutes to take care of their sexual needs in order to avoid sullying their libidoless wives with the dirtiness of sex. It was when wives who suffered from "hysteria" were encouraged to seek out "therapudic massage," a medical technique applied by the M.D. directly to the clitoris, for which the mechanical vibrator was later invented to free the doc from such "drudgery."

 

So I apologize. I should have said the "last 70 years."

[KR10N]

The more I read peoples' views, the more I think that it makes no sense that people would risk so much for pleasure that they themselves know can't compare to the worth of thier own families. So WTF makes them risk it all? Why are so many people having As?

It's just an immature thing & usually only for pleasure. I feel that if there are problems in a M you either work it out or get a divorce. Plain & simple. As for their families they probably don't give a shît anyway. Just like some wouldn't care if it messes up their kids. And to think that some parents wonder why their kids hate them is beyond me. I've seen it happen w/ my friends. I've heard all about it & it's usually the kids who end up resenting their parents.

[Quiet Storm]

Buck, I do agree that we have been culturally conditioned to think infidelity is wrong.

 

As women, we are raised to believe that our kight in shining armor will come along, he will want to marry us and he will never want to look at another woman again. (thanks, Disney).

 

Although intellectually we know that men are biologically inclined to be physically attracted to youth and beauty, we expect that our man's love for us will keep him sexually faithful, even as our face wrinkes, our boobs drop and our ass spreads.

 

Unrealistic? I believe so. Men can love and become bonded to their wives, but it is rare that the love is so all-encompassing that he never notices other women. It is natural to be attracted to others, and men are put in the position of constantly having to hide and suppress these feelings if they wish to be sexually faithful.

 

In addition, men are often groomed from a young age to hide the truth from women. Women have the reputation of having unpleasant or emotional reactions to bad news. I call it the "Don't worry your pretty little head about it" syndrome. There is this belief with many men that we can't handle the truth. And so it is hidden.

 

Since birth, men have been taught to appease women and be nice (beginning with Mommy) and they learn early on that being sweet to women often gets them what they want. To basically tell us what we want to hear to keep the peace. And that bad news (or too much honesty) will be met with tears, hysteria or punishment.

 

So they lie.

 

If men were to live authentically, it would probably involve being married, loving and providing for their wife and children, but having others outside the marriage for sexual variety.

 

But they can't live authentically, because most women would never accept that.

 

To be honest, many 40+ women that I know don't have a strong sex drive. They have sex with their H to meet his needs, but they no longer have a physical desire for sex. They can take it or leave it. These women are very hurt when their husband cheats, but not because of the sex with others (they often feel relieved if he doesn't want sex), but because of the lies. Prior to the knowledge of the affair, the women often felt content and loved.

 

A man can provide for his wife for many years, care for her, raise kids with her, support her...all actions of love. And women see and feel this love...but when he is caught cheating she will feel that all those positives are negated by his cheating. Those feelings are caused by cultural conditioning and the belief that a man doesn't love you if he cheats, which is simply not always true, IMO.

 

Men usually feel that the commitment (not sexual fidelity) is the basis of marriage. Men are natural providers, and it feels natural for them to provide for and protect their wife and children. Barring a wife's infidelity, addicition or mental illness, men will usually honor this part of the commitment to their dying breath...because that is what they are naturally driven to do. Monogamy, however, is not natural for them and that is why they have trouble with, IMO.

 

On the other hand, I feel that women are more inclined to be with one man at a time. They usually don't cheat until they feel in their hearts the marriage is over. Most don't feel physically driven to be with multiple men - women's infidelity usually begins emotionally and the physical follows.

[Owl]

What I find interesting is people who insist that cultures should change to meet their individual desires.

 

Sure, that makes a lot more sense than changing individual expectations to meet cultural ones. :rolleyes:

 

If you want a change...you change what's within your scope of control...yourself.

 

If you insist that others should change to meet YOUR morals/expectations/desires/whatever...you're probably an idiot.

 

Just a thought.

[jwi71]

The question really should be, that given human nature and the 70% of marraiges affected by infidelity business, etc., why do we have this institution at all?

 

Because we humans choose to have it.

 

What purposes does it serve?

 

Varies per culture.

 

Why do we consider ourselves "civilized" in this way?

 

Dunno...and not sure why its relevant if labeling ourselves civilized or not is relevant.

 

Most civilizations do not have mandatory monogamy for life. Why do we?

 

Well, you'll be pleased to learn that I cannot think of any "western, civilized culture" where people are forced to marry. One can opt to be remain in the status known as "single" and avoid that monogamy for life.

 

You'll be even more shocked to learn that once people are in this mandatory monogamy (that they voluntarily entered I might add) they are free to leave. Its a ritual called "take them to the cleaners" or "get half"...in laymen's terms divorce. And, depending on who you ask, happens quite frequently. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of it before now and realized that one can leave the M and avoid a cheating situation (and thusly the pain of an A).

 

The problem is not that people cheat, full stop. It's that (a) people cheat, and (b) their partners are socially conditioned to take that as the most horrible thing a person could possibly do to another person. It's the combination of those TWO things, not just the first thing, that causes the pain. (a) has always been true, throughout human history. It seems unlikely to change under any circumstance. (b) has only been true in (i) the west and countries socially connected thereunto, and (ii) within the last 200 years or so. In other times and places, (b) has not been the case.

 

Kindly list the cultures where some form of M exists and they consider it ok to cheat.

 

Please note that I define cheating as "surreptitious relationships that one could reasonably assume would not be welcomed by the spouse". An open marriage where both parties agree to have extra-marital emotional and physical relationships do not fall under this definition as the conduct is agreed upon by both parties. And you'd better believe there are rules regarding that as well...we have at least one poster who is in an open M...maybe she'll chime in on that aspect.

 

If we were to change our social conditioning, so as not to label a more or less inevitable event a complete emotional disaster so bad that nothing can cure it, then some of that pain, which would otherwise be inevitable no matter what we do, would be eliminated.

 

Why do you assume that an A is a complete emotional disaster so bad that nothing can cure it? Death's directly accountable to an A are very rare. I would also wager that the loss of a young child is FAR more devastating than an A. With that I wish to highlight the fact that pain is subjective and virtually impossible to standardize across a population.

 

Cheating is not murder or rape, which hurt because of their physical natures. Cheating hurts because we are socially conditioned to take it that way. Remove the social conditioning and it doesn't hurt as much, or at all.

 

True.

One could also not cheat and also avoid the "hurt" no?

 

But your choices are colored by your culture. It cannot be any other way. You're not as free an agent as you'd like to think.

 

You are correct is stating that one's choices are culture-defined that is obvious to all. One is also free to leave said culture or even act counter to it...sometimes referred to as "teenagers". It would be a simple exercise to simply announce to every potential partner that you do not believe in M and do not believe in mandatory monogamy. While it may shrink the list of potential partners you are most assuredly not alone - I'm sure you can find "open marriage dating website" and find plenty of like minded persons.

 

As to not being a free agent you are again mistaken.

You can choose to:

1) not marry

2) get a D

3) not cheat

 

I find it very hard to think that cheating is necessary but not sufficient for one to feel pain. It requires both the cheating discovery and societal conditioning to feel pain. This is little more than a weak attempt to blame others (society) for the pain of betrayal (the individual act of cheating).

[OpenBook]

If you insist that others should change to meet YOUR morals/expectations/desires/whatever...you're probably an idiot.

 

Um... Isn't that what the BS's do here all day long in this OM/OW forum?

[MissBee]

The why's are just as individual as the A's.

 

I found out recently that my neighbor with whom I was fairly close, has moved out, because her and her H of 14 yrs are divorcing.

 

I was very disappointed to hear that they were splitting up and that she was moving away.

 

She was a great neighbor and I could depend on her to watch my house when I am away. But anyway the point of my mentioning this is, I called her to just check on her and let her know she was in my thoughts. I missed having her around, really.

 

We got to talking and she confided in me that she's moved in with a MM. I was really taken back by that information!

 

First of all, she and I had many conversations in the past about infidelity and she would say how anyone who had an A was such a terrible person and that she'd never, ever do such a thing.

 

Come to find out, from her, ( and her words), it just happened, because he was having trouble in his twenty something yr marriage and she in her marriage.

 

So, I'd say as to a why do A's happen, vulnerable people, in vulnerable situations, can possibly cause you to look towards another person to have your needs met. That is no excuse and it isn't necessarily the right thing to do, but it's a reason some may give.

 

True. I think a lot of it boils down to that, as well as people being ill-eqipped for marriage and having poor relationship skills and habits. You learn reading, writing, arithmetic, you learn a trade or career, you learn how to drive a car, but most of us do not learn how to have good relationships, how to deal with conflict, how to communicate etc. It's not second nature. Most people try to do the best they can with that they have, and sometimes in terms of handling relationships and even loving themselves, they don't have much to go on. I think that's why lots of As happen, as well as why there are so many other types of relationship issues. Many people are essentially going into relationships, feeling inlove and that's about as far as it goes. They have no clue about handling conflict, no clue about their own subconscious negative patterns and behavior, no clue about compromise, no clue about all the skills needed to make a relationship work. They either repeat what they've learned along the way from their parents, friends, relatives and media, and a lot of times, they're not good examples either.

 

I was awakened to the fact that I have good intentions and want love and partnership like most people do, but based on what happened in my romantic life, it was apparent that I didn't know the first thing about forming a mutually beneficial relationship that fostered growth, trust, love, care, respect, furthermore to make it last. I decided that I didn't want a relationship like my parents' or like so many others I saw and that I had to learn about myself and also learn how to create a good relationship: from the choosing of a partner to maintaining the relationship once formed, as well as deciding enough is enough when it's not working. It's something I am learning and am excited to learn, as I think that provides a greater chance for relationship success, when you're self aware and are forearmed versus if you form relationships only on good intentions, fantasy, little skills and just hope for the best and hope that love conquers all.

[woinlove]

Um... Isn't that what the BS's do here all day long in this OM/OW forum?

 

How so? Aren't they giving their opinions like everyone else?

 

And it's not like "the BS's" speak en masse - there's diversity there, just like there is among OM/OW.

[Buck Turgidson]

You'll be even more shocked to learn that once people are in this mandatory monogamy (that they voluntarily entered I might add) they are free to leave. Its a ritual called "take them to the cleaners" or "get half"...in laymen's terms divorce. And, depending on who you ask, happens quite frequently. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of it before now and realized that one can leave the M and avoid a cheating situation (and thusly the pain of an A).

 

Replacing it instead with the pain of an unnecessary D. Most people who cheat don't want the marriage to end. They're just looking for a good time in the wrong place.

 

My argument isn't that cheating is good or morally right, only that it's unavoidably predominant and people are inappropriately trained to deal with it when it happens. Otherwise functional relationships are destroyed every day not by cheating alone, but by the combination of cheating and the partner's unwillingness to approach the problem constructively. Of all the ways a person may behave badly, only one is given the loaded title of "cheating", as if there was only one rule in a relationship to be evaded.

 

Kindly list the cultures where some form of M exists and they consider it ok to cheat.

That's a trick question, since you're setting the groundwork for claiming that any example I give is an example of "open marriage" rather than "cheating." Nevertheless, the list would be reasonably substantial, since in most cultures with marriage, marriage is arranged and excessive love between the partners is considered somewhat antisocial since it detracts from the more important ties to clan and community. Instead of an exhaustive list, how about a couple of examples that can't reasonably be "open marriages"?

 

- In the history of the West, male womanizing has always been socially tolerated (and not considered grounds for divorce). During the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, adultery became idealized as the highest form of love among the aristocracy, with love between spouses considered to be impossible.

 

- In traditional China, it was commonly accepted that parents could force their son to take a concubine if his wife did not produce a son, regardless of his wife's (or his own) wishes. If he refused, the parents could divorce the couple and marry him to someone else.

 

And you'd better believe there are rules regarding that as well...we have at least one poster who is in an open M...maybe she'll chime in on that aspect.

No one is arguing against rules and boundaries in relationships. I'm arguing for enforcing them with understanding, and for prioritizing love before them.

 

 

 

Why do you assume that an A is a complete emotional disaster so bad that nothing can cure it?

Have you read these boards?

 

 

 

True.

One could also not cheat and also avoid the "hurt" no?

Certainly. The potentially cheating spouse can choose not to cheat and that avoids the pain. Can the potentially cheated spouse do anything to avoid it? Of course: take a realistic and loving stance towards the possibility that his/her spouse may make a mistake.

 

 

 

I find it very hard to think that cheating is necessary but not sufficient for one to feel pain. It requires both the cheating discovery and societal conditioning to feel pain. This is little more than a weak attempt to blame others (society) for the pain of betrayal (the individual act of cheating).

I blame both the cheater and the society which romantically (in the sense of "unrealistically") expects absolutely perfect fidelity from the spouse and doesn't take the time or thought to realize that perfect fidelity is hard. Monogamy is hard and sometimes people, being fallible, fail at it. We should be prepared to accept that unpleasant truth instead of wringing hands over how often it occurs.

 

The point is: the question that started this thread is about one particular kind of betrayal, not all betrayal. Why not? There are lots of ways to betray someone, but only one that we give a special loaded name to. The shock and prostration are reserved for sexual betrayal. That socially conditioned shock and disgust interfere with the ability to rationally and lovingly approach the problem when it occurs. Yes, people can choose not to do it. But they don't all succeed. A spouse should be emotionally prepared for the possibility.

[Owl]

Um... Isn't that what the BS's do here all day long in this OM/OW forum?

 

Ummm....if that's what you feel, then I'm not sure why you'd bother to stay here.

 

Sorry...I still think that I provide some occasional useful advice here, not just insisting that everyone here change to meet my expectations. If you feel otherwise about my posting....feel free to put me on ignore. Same could apply to any other BS/WS/OP that you felt that way about, for that matter.

[woinlove]

No one is arguing against rules and boundaries in relationships. I'm arguing for enforcing them with understanding, and for prioritizing love before them.

 

Not sure what you mean by "enforcing" rules in an M. I'm in an open M and, for us, that means openness and honesty. If my H lied and deceived me about a R, I would take that as betrayal and it could end our M. After 25 years of operating in a mode of open, honest communication which sometimes includes other R's, I feel we know and understand each other's values very well and don't expect my H's values related to honesty and loyalty to change. But if they did, I probably would not choose to spend the rest of my life with someone who chose deception and dishonesty. Perhaps you think that is not "understanding" or not "prioritizing love", but to me it is knowing the kind of values I need in a life partner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly. The potentially cheating spouse can choose not to cheat and that avoids the pain. Can the potentially cheated spouse do anything to avoid it? Of course: take a realistic and loving stance towards the possibility that his/her spouse may make a mistake.

 

What is the realistic and loving stance toward choosing to deceive one's spouse in order to have another R? Is it to decide that honesty and openness aren't that important so the lack of them in your R should be overlooked? Or sometimes you have them and sometimes you don't, no big deal? Yes, if honesty, trust, openness are not important to you in an R, fine. To those who feel they are important, I say good for them. These are great values and they make great marriages. Don't sell yourself or your partner short if these are important to you.

 

I blame both the cheater and the society which romantically (in the sense of "unrealistically") expects absolutely perfect fidelity from the spouse and doesn't take the time or thought to realize that perfect fidelity is hard. Monogamy is hard and sometimes people, being fallible, fail at it. We should be prepared to accept that unpleasant truth instead of wringing hands over how often it occurs.

 

Personally, I have not found honesty that difficult. Do you find it difficult?

 

I found a partner who shared my desire for honesty and openness. We are both willing to listen to difficult things and it really is not that difficult. Monogamy? I would find it difficult - could probably do it if there was an important reason to do it - and certainly there are times I have found it very important, such as when my H and I are facing stress due to illness, a tragedy, etc., in which case we choose monogamy, typically for years at a time.

 

I think the key point is not make your spouse think that you value monogamy, that you expect it and will honor it, but then lie about it. If monogamy is not important to you or you decide to give it a pass, tell your spouse. Why is that so difficult? That is an honest question. It must be difficult for some people because they don't do it. I've never cheated myself, so not exactly sure why honesty is so difficult.

 

The point is: the question that started this thread is about one particular kind of betrayal, not all betrayal. Why not? There are lots of ways to betray someone, but only one that we give a special loaded name to. The shock and prostration are reserved for sexual betrayal. That socially conditioned shock and disgust interfere with the ability to rationally and lovingly approach the problem when it occurs. Yes, people can choose not to do it. But they don't all succeed. A spouse should be emotionally prepared for the possibility.

 

What other kinds of betrayal do you have in mind? Financial betrayal by a spouse can be quite devastating. However, barring ending up without food and shelter, I can't say money is nearly as important to me as issues surrounding love and friendship, which Rs impact on.

[reboot]

Um... Isn't that what the BS's do here all day long in this OM/OW forum?

 

I'm actually surprised at this from you.

 

Personally, while I am a BS, that does not define me. My opinions, and ideas, and "morals" (if you will) were mostly formed long before I ever wore that tag. Yes, I often freely share my opinions here (and elsewhere on the board), but I never insist that anyone change theirs to meet mine. I actually don't like all this pounding square pegs into round holes we do around here. We are not BS and WS and OM and OW, we're just people. People trying to get through our respective lives the best way we can. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes you're right, sometimes neither of us are.

 

Those tags may define us in the very narrow realm of this internet forum, but I doubt they define many of us in our real lives. There are very few, if indeed any, posters here that are "evil" people (although I will admit there are a handful that are pretty intolerable).

[Spark1111]

All human action requires two things: opportunity and will.

 

Clearly, people who choose to cheat (and that includes the AP) have not only the chance (hell, everyone does) but the desire (not everyone does) to do so.

 

And its a powerful desire -one that overrides moral, legal, societal and interpersonal boundaries as defined by marriage.

 

Ultimately, for me, cheating is an attempt to fulfill some unmet need within themselves. An attempt, misguided to be sure, to be happy with THEMSELVES. Its not about the M or the BS or even, in most cases, the AP. A sad attempt fueled by a powerful unmet inner need leads to cheating.

 

And since opportunity abounds...its just a matter of time really.

 

What jiwi said.......

 

Plus, I do not think people learn how to do relationships well.

 

I believe they believe the limerance they feel in the beginning will sustain them for a lifetime. We now know it will not.

 

Long-term relationships go through stages with the best saved for last IF, and it is a huge if, the couple is willing to learn to negotiate the very difficult stage of disillusionment and power struggles. That is the stage when most marriages divorce or suffer from infidelity.

 

It is one of the biggest decisions a person can make, yet they allow temporary emotions to guide them in the choice of a marital partner.

 

Big mistake, IMO.

 

Today, we have mandatory parenting classes and pre-natal classes as a condition to birthing your baby.

 

I think it would behoove us as a society to have similiar classes for marriage and relationships, because otherwise most people ASSUME they know it all based on personal and familial experiences only.

 

and that is not enough for the long term, IMO.