Another FWB in the horizon.. where have all the good man gone!

[ThsAmericanLife]

musemaj11 I disagree with this statement, I don't think I am entittled to a man giving me a relationship... nope is a two way street I'm entittled to give and to have someone that will want to receive and give back to me.. is not even an entittlement.. is a part of being human and wanting intimacy.

 

 

Yes, I feel so gross because now I'm thinking that he probably planned the evening that way. He invited me to a show, he took me back home ( nd I said yes ) he knew I was a lighweight and all he did was give me two shots of tequila and that was enough to get me all happy. I think that even though I did put my half for accepting, he still falls under the player category... I think that no decent man ( even if all want sex) will try to push a woman for sex this early on.

 

I have actually found that some of the relationships that I see around me have decided to wait for sex, relationship material man are more hesitant to make a first move thsi early on becuase they don't want to seem disrespectful .. I'm I wrong ?? Maybe I'm just being too trusty and I assume that all men will respect my wish and hence accepted to go over to his place.

 

I coulda avoided this incident but this man is still a player in my books. I mean I said no many times and I had to push him aside and yet he had a condom ready ?

 

Relationship material men ARE more hesitant to make a move early in a relationship...

 

When men I date ask me to come to their place early in the relationship or are looking for opportunities for over-nighters of any kind, I accept they have put me in the f-buddy or FWB category for whatever reason and quickly move on.

 

Nothing to feel bad about and doesn't need much explanation. Your goals just aren't in line.

[zengirl]

I am taking responsability for my actions. I clearly admitted I made a mistake and you guys keep rubbing that on my face.I clearly said I had to change a lot already to at least get to the point of denying sex if I ditdnt fele confortabel to, even if I 'invited' it by going to his place.

 

I don't know that you "invited it" and I'm not trying to pick on you---just point out all the things that are red flags/signs of "sex is coming" that I see so you'll be more wary next time. Hey, you didn't know; you live and you learn. It's over, you weren't really hurt, life goes on.

 

Of course he is feeling frustrated, he was hard and he tried many times and I rejected him. It then goes back back to what Zen girl said, no a "what do you want " was never discussed, it was the second date and I just wanted to let things transition naturally.Of course, we did the wrong thing.. he assumed I wanted sex by going to his place and fool little me assumed that he would respect me.

 

I don't know exactly what happened or what he was thinking/felt or what you actually came out and said. I've found that the easiest way for my relationships to progress naturally is for me to be honest about who I am and where I'm coming from. I think girls try to hide their intentions (I'm looking for a relationship) to their detriment. Guys who ALSO want a relationship (in general---I wouldn't say WITH HIM on Date 2, but I never hide that I'm the relationship type) aren't scared if you want a relationship (well, if you NEED a relationship or would get into a relationship with any loser, yes) and can admit it. They really aren't.

 

Likewise, I don't get into the "pull away" game. If someone were to try to throw me on top of him and I wasn't into that, I'd climb down and say, "Whoah. . . that makes me uncomfortable. A drink and a snog is one thing, but let's stay vertical here" and see how he responded. In most cases, I'd be done with the drinking and snogging too, and either have him take me home, drive (if not for the drinking), or call myself a cab. If a guy is at all physically pushy once I've asked him not to, he's done. I'm not sure precisely what happened between y'all. Nor am I saying my way is the only right way. I'm just saying that asserting myself and having boundaries has always worked as excellent player-repellent for me.

 

I hear you, but for safety's sake a woman should assume generally that most guys will think "sex" when he gets the woman into his den.

 

Depends. But, yes, if unsure: I'd say yes. I usually find that guys I meet, even if not met through my social circle, have several common points socially with me. So, trust comes more easily. I wouldn't go to a guy's house if I didn't trust him or allow him in mine (though I do have roommates, so it's relatively safe to have a fellow over).

 

Think deeper. In my travels, whenever I met guys like the one bgirl described, they generally care about themselves, but also see sex with women as part of their ego boost. They are narcissistic and see their wealth, physical features, and how easily they can lay women as part of their sense of self-importance.

 

I guess I don't even see doctors as rich. Most of the doctors I know are in major debt. They don't even start to benefit from their wealth till they're almost 40 in many cases! This probably belies my upper-middle class POV though. I'm kinda poor (I was a teacher/now nonprofit which isn't much better) but I'm middle class poor. Doctors my age are interns, and they make less money than me in some cases and have student loans on top of it (scary amounts too). And doctors in my dating range could, at best, just have finished their residency.

 

Doctors are also often people who value their minds more than their wallets or looks IME. I'd say the type you're describing is more an investment banker/smarmy wall street type. Most doctors I know sometimes have ego issues, but of a very different type. They are control freaks often (you kind of have to be in many cases), but they usually don't throw their money around. In fact, most even when rich turn out to be fairly frugal (exceptions, of course) and good with their money----from all those lean years and loans to pay off. Doctors who throw their money around aren't the norm, IMO.

 

That doesn't mean doctors don't pay for dates. All upper-middle class men (across professions) in America pay for dates, IME. They just do. I always offer, but I've never come across a fellow who wasn't ready to buy me dinner. I don't think that means he thinks he can buy people; it just means he was a male socialized in America in upper-middle class values. (I honestly cannot speak to other class values fairly, really. My family was working class when I was very young, but they were solid by the time I was in middle school, and I've only ever dated educated men.)

 

The funny thing about the whole situation is that the guy wasn't necessarily interested in a one night stand. And he likely would have continued dating you had you declined to go home with him that night. Likewise, he would have likely continued dating you if you had sex with him. You screwed it up by initially acting like you were DTF and then putting the brakes on last minute. You can't really blame the lack of good men for this one.

 

Oh well, hopefully this will be a learning experience.

 

Eh, maybe not a ONS, but if he were into a relationship, he wouldn't have acted that way either. Either way, this wasn't going to become a great love affair.

Edited August 16, 2011 by zengirl

[dispatch3d]

Guys like to rush things. That's the answer to your question.

 

Lady, did it ever occur to you that there aren't many doctors out there, and you may want to make some effort to make this relationship a keeper?

 

Whats up with women putting 0 effort into dating and expecting fireworks from nothing .

[Bgirl]

dispatch3d .. I actually don't understand your post. If you could explain what you mean.

 

This post is not about showing zero interest is about sex without commitment. And would you please tell me how did I not put any effort into it? Also, no I didnt expect fireworks, I understand is second date and just like I didnt expect the stars and the moon I , falsely, assumed that he would move slowly too. all I wanted was a chilled night out with him.

If there are or arent many doctors out there, I don't mind that, I am not looking for a doctor. Just a decent man. He happens to be a doctor, I have also dated guys who dont near that status.That is not the point.

 

Like Zen girl said, doctors are reconized for their presitgious careers and their status, do they make money? Yes they do! But not this early on, because the guy is drowning in student debt, he even admitted to me that he can't afford to buy a condo yet because of high maintenance fees.

 

Dating a doctor isnt all it seems, he also has a hectic schedule , doing 48 hour shifts and he is on call most of the time. There is give and take and I wuld have worked with him and supported his career but yep maybe things werent meant to be.

 

The guy from the beginning was not consistent, taking long to reply to msgs, flirting with the waitress , he told her " We will miss you once she goes on break and he kept checking her out" .. and I just couldnt see this things.

 

I am just overly trusty and I think the world is covered in rose petals for me, I clearly failed to take care of myself this time.

[Feelsgoodman]

Eh, maybe not a ONS, but if he were into a relationship, he wouldn't have acted that way either. Either way, this wasn't going to become a great love affair.

You can't say that based on the information given in this thread. For all intents and purposes, the guy could have been genuinely confused, as the OP was giving him mixed signals. As for "acting that way", it's a well known fact that women often put up "token resistance" (which, I guess, makes them feel less slutty) with the expectation that the guy will push through. Anyone who claims he hasn't been in a situation like that is either a lier or a virgin. So you can't blame the guy for trying. After all, women expect men to make the first move when it come to initiating sex.

 

Women, in general, need to be more considerate and try to understand how men feel in such situations. If you make it seem like you're DTF and then do a 180, it's very frustrating for the guy and makes him feel like you are playing games. I once dated a girl who, on our fourth date, suggested we go back to my place to watch a movie. On the way there, she also suggested we get some wine. In my mind, wine + going back to my place on the fourth date = sex. But once I tried making a move, she basically told me that she didn't want to move too fast and all sorts of other BS and even tried to make me feel guilty. Needless to day, when she called me the following day, I told her that I don't want to see her again.

[zengirl]

You can't say that based on the information given in this thread.

 

I can. Guys who want relationships generally don't invite women to come back to their houses for tequila shots and try to jump them. Doesn't mean he's a BAD guy (some other stuff he did sounded potentially gross, depending on how it went down, if she made it clear it was not happening). Just not a super-serious guy.

 

Can you ever have a relationship with a not super serious guy who's mostly driven by sex? Sure. I've seen it happen. If things fall just the right way, he enters into one sometimes. But they're usually fraught with drama and a lot of "not knowing" on the woman's part and rarely end well. Sounds like a bad deal to me.

 

For all intents and purposes, the guy could have been genuinely confused, as the OP was giving him mixed signals. As for "acting that way", it's a well known fact that women often put up "token resistance" (which, I guess, makes them feel less slutty) with the expectation that the guy will push through.

 

Token resistance is something that comes up purely in casual sex situations and not in relationships, though, unless you're a teenager. Guys who want a relationship DO back off when they see resistance because sex is not the goal and they know pushing through that resistance could actually hurt them in their actual goal.

 

So you can't blame the guy for trying.

 

I didn't. In fact, I expressly said you can't blame him for it, but it shows he's more interested in sex now than a real relationship with her or probably anyone. He's not strong relationship material.

 

After all, women expect men to make the first move when it come to initiating sex.

 

Hmm. . . I don't know that most grown women who have relationships DO. In casual sex dynamics, yes. Relationship sex dynamics truly are different.

 

Women, in general, need to be more considerate and try to understand how men feel in such situations. If you make it seem like you're DTF and then do a 180, it's very frustrating for the guy and makes him feel like you are playing games.

 

I don't wholly disagree that women should carry themselves in a manner that makes clear their intentions (so should men), though crossed wires are going to happen, and it's life. If you get pissed off about crossed wires, you're probably more into the sex than the girl. And that's okay, but it's just ANOTHER sign that it's better off not having sex with him. That said, as I say, I don't advocate making it seem like you'd be interested in more physicality than you are because it's just going to cause hassles.

 

I once dated a girl who, on our fourth date, suggested we go back to my place to watch a movie. On the way there, she also suggested we get some wine. In my mind, wine + going back to my place on the fourth date = sex.

 

Then perhaps your mind is not relationship oriented. My BF and I shared wine and watched a movie (in the living room!) long before we ever had sex, and he was not confused. A glass of wine, a nice dinner, and a movie. . . that's a pretty typical date for me a few weeks in, and usually still before sex. I've never had a guy shocked or try to get me horizontal. A man who's truly seeking a relationship with me will not attempt to push my boundaries. Though it is my job to make them clear. Hence: the living room and carrying myself like a relationship-oriented woman.

[Bgirl]

Well then I understand your situation feelsgoodman, if the girl gave you mixed siganls , SHE suggested you go back and SHE suggested you buy wine and then even makes you feel guilty that's a differnet story.

 

But in my case, the guy made the suggestion to go back home and he initiated the drinking. I did accept two shots but I never woulda thoguht that drinking two shots would be a "sign" that I want to have sex with him.

 

He plays music, we both sang and talked and then ( I was happy and tipsy at this point) we went to his room to show me 'something' and he pushed me on his bed saying " feel how confortable it is" then I tried to get up and he pushed me down and took unbuttoned my bra and said " This is what they taught me in med school" then I proceeded to say no! and I covered myselfd up and he took his shirt off " I do it coz its hot in here" and I just moved aside but he found me again and said he shud def have sex tonight seeing as I'm hard.

 

We haven't even hugged or anything at that point, how did I caused him to get hard? By accepting a drink and staying at his place I assume.

[Bgirl]

SO my question for you feelsgoodman then is.. by accepting that the girl comes over and buying wine, did you automatically put her in a FWB category? Or did you think GF material before hand.

 

Like ZenGirl said, yes I acted innocently, because in the past I have gone to guy's places to watch a movie and nothing has happened, we ended up just watching a movie and it did turn into a relationship.

 

I guess it all depends on the state of mind of the person. If the person is sex mateirla then they will see the invite with different eyes. If a guy is more of a relationship material though, the thought will def cross their minds but I think they would be more heistant to move forward.

 

I have male friends who have done this, goen to girls houses to fix stuff, just hang out and then they comment how much they wanted to make a move but becuase they truly like the girl they resisted.

[Feelsgoodman]

SO my question for you feelsgoodman then is.. by accepting that the girl comes over and buying wine, did you automatically put her in a FWB category? Or did you think GF material before hand.

Nope, I didn't put her in the FWB category. In my mind, sex on the fourth date is perfectly normal.

[Bgirl]

Ok then , that seems like a 'resonable' timeline for most. I wouldn't mind having sex on the fourth date so as long as it is mutual and he is showing genuine interest in me.

 

Where you calling/texting her and showing her that you were intersted? In my case, even on date 4 I would have rejected him because it takes him HOURS to get back to me and his messages are brief and cold. How can I feel secure to have sex with someone like that? And I know its been only two dates for us, but a simply text messaging to see how im doing and actually following through if I reply wouldnt hurt.

[zengirl]

If you have 4th date sex, expect it to be casual and be surprised if a relationship comes from it. Not because it's "bad" or makes you look bad, but because you just don't even really know compatibility on the 4th date. So, more likely than not, it will fail---as most 4 date spans don't lead to relationships (but it'd fail with or without sex; I don't mean sex would CAUSE it to fail).

 

That's my view at least. I usually take at least a month or so to get to know someone. But it depends if I knew them beforehand/etc/lots of other factors. I don't go for time frames, but I couldn't imagine having sex that early.

[Feelsgoodman]

Ok then , that seems like a 'resonable' timeline for most. I wouldn't mind having sex on the fourth date so as long as it is mutual and he is showing genuine interest in me.

 

Where you calling/texting her and showing her that you were intersted? In my case, even on date 4 I would have rejected him because it takes him HOURS to get back to me and his messages are brief and cold. How can I feel secure to have sex with someone like that? And I know its been only two dates for us, but a simply text messaging to see ehow im doing and actually following through if I reply wouldnt hurt.

It's not really about the timeline for me. Even if I had sex with a girl on the first date, I would not automatically write her off as a one night stand or a FWB (unless she had a reputation for doing that sort of thing all the time...but if she had such a reputation, I wouldn't consider her a long-term prospect in any event). By the same token, just because a girl makes me wait for a month does not mean I'd want a serious relationship with her.

 

The fact that he takes hours to get back to you with a brief message could be related to his job. If he's a doctor, he's likely quite busy.

[dasein]

When you pushed him away he pretty much decided you're the type who might use sex as an "exchange" for things.

 

This or he decided she was a complete tease. If you are in a man's bedroom jumping on him and then change your mind, that's fine... once. If you hang around and keep making out with him he has every right to toss you into the "tease" category and write you off as low quality.

 

Don't go in a man's bedroom you are dating unless you are ready to have sex or you are too drunk to drive and he is sleeping on the couch.

[sm1tten]

There are three things bothering me here.

 

1) Why didn't/couldn't you leave when he was forcing himself on you?

2) A man inviting a woman back to his place after a date and giving her drinks is not necessarily a man looking for a FWB - you have your terminology off. He might have been looking for a one night stand, he might not have. You'll never know.

 

Sidenote: I don't think the above situation is always sketchy and always means the guy is trying to get laid. You have to make that kind of judgement on a person by person basis. And you should never be going home with anyone in any situation that you can't get yourself out of.

 

3) You shouldn't be drinking at all with a stranger if you know you are a lightweight.

 

Also, what does being "relationship-oriented" mean? It sounds judgmental and "rule-y." I'm not knocking what works for you, ZG, or anybody else, but that phrase is rubbing me all wrong because it sounded like having sex/thinking that encounters might lead to sex early in the dating means that you AREN'T relationship-oriented, and I don't agree with that.

[phineas]

Ok then , that seems like a 'resonable' timeline for most. I wouldn't mind having sex on the fourth date so as long as it is mutual and he is showing genuine interest in me.

 

Where you calling/texting her and showing her that you were intersted? In my case, even on date 4 I would have rejected him because it takes him HOURS to get back to me and his messages are brief and cold. How can I feel secure to have sex with someone like that? And I know its been only two dates for us, but a simply text messaging to see how im doing and actually following through if I reply wouldnt hurt.

 

If a woman wishes to converse with me, she needs to schedule some face-time.

I'm not an 17yr old highschool girl. I got better things to do than yap on the phone or txt for hrs with some chick that isn't even having sex with me.

 

sorry but women are attention whores & talking on the phone or txting them regularly has NEVER gotten me laid. (unless it was dirty talk).

It just left me feeling like a chump for investing time & energy into a tease.

 

Look at what you wrote.

 

Only 2 dates & you are expecting him to treat you like a GF. 2 dates isn't time for him to even figure out if your just using him for attention. I've taken women on 3 or 4 dates only to have them *poof* so he's doing it right by not getting emotionally invested in a woman who comes to his place after 2 dates, drinks, climbs into bed with him then refuses sex.

 

He did it right. He's not pining away, he's onto the next woman.

[zengirl]

 

Also, what does being "relationship-oriented" mean? It sounds judgmental and "rule-y." I'm not knocking what works for you, ZG, or anybody else, but that phrase is rubbing me all wrong because it sounded like having sex/thinking that encounters might lead to sex early in the dating means that you AREN'T relationship-oriented, and I don't agree with that.

 

Relationship-oriented means that building the relationship is the priority.

 

I don't think early sex = not relationship oriented, but a guy who is PUSHING for sex early = not relationship oriented. Because men know doing that is harmful to the potential relationship, and it means he's prioritizing immediate sex over potentially building a relationship.

 

As to actually having sex early, I don't think that hurts a relationship. As I said, the issue with having sex early is usually not the sex---it's that most people you date a few times won't be relationship material. If you're fine with that, then have sex. I don't think it ends the possibility of a relationship at all.

 

I do think that the situation she described sounded sketchy -- not going back, but going back, pouring shots, and asking her to look in his bedroom. All of these are increasing 'warning' signs. A relationship-oriented guy you just met (his priority is the relationship) isn't going to do that. He's going to be more cautious because sex is not his priority (he WANTS sex, sure, but he actively wants more than that).

 

There are guys whose priority is NOT the relationship who HAVE relationships, but those relationships are a bit more choppy water usually at first. If you're not sure what you're looking for, those can work out fine, but I find that when the woman is very sure she wants a relationship, those guys almost always just cause a lot of stress and dissonance and drama. So, I think it's important to note who you're dealing with and what you're looking for. The guys who decide "after sex" if they like a girl or who don't like girls who don't sleep with them fast enough. . . it's not that they never have relationships, but the sex was their priority. That's unappealing to me, personally, in a potential BF, but I'm not saying it's wrong for everyone.

 

By "oriented" I'm speaking to what the priority is. If your priority is to have fun in the moment, by all means do that. But if your priority is to build a relationship, as a man or woman, you're going to act differently. ETA: And, of course, you can want both of those things, and sex, and 1000 other things. Priority doesn't mean it's the only thing you want----it's just what you put highest on the list.

Edited August 17, 2011 by zengirl

[ThsAmericanLife]

Also, what does being "relationship-oriented" mean? It sounds judgmental and "rule-y." I'm not knocking what works for you, ZG, or anybody else, but that phrase is rubbing me all wrong because it sounded like having sex/thinking that encounters might lead to sex early in the dating means that you AREN'T relationship-oriented, and I don't agree with that.

 

I'm ok with it appearing judgmental and 'rule-y'. Every one makes judgements or has rules about something.

 

Both men and women who want a relationship generally don't have sex early... when I meet someone who is appropriately cautious about who, how and when they stick their dick someplace, well that is VERY refreshing. Doesn't feel judgemental or rule-y at all... Just feels 'smart'.

 

Men who say they have relationships with women they sleep with early in the relationship are a dime a dozen. Although, I will say this... I'm happy to see the 'madonna-whore' complex start to go by the wayside. Can't complain about that.

[Bgirl]

I think I missed a lot here. Well first of all, I am going to say this one last time. No I didn't jump on him. I am 100% sure that even though I made the horrible mistake of goign back and not reading signs I didn't even come close to him or touched him... I was even wonderting when this guy was going to plant a kiss on me. Yes I was tipsy and I coudlnt think staright enough to just leave so I failed to take care of myself.

 

But that still doesnt justify what he did, he clearly took advantage of the situation and everytime I think about it...I'm more and more convinced that he had planned the entire thing, he even had a condom ready and out of the bag in his drawer...he clearly planned it.

 

That's not to say that the guy was wrong for wanting sex, if that is all he wants he can go ahead and find it in the blink of an eye and I respect that.. but begging for sex and insisting by putting himself on top of me clearly doesn't speak very good of him.

 

If he would have been a respectful guy he would have backed off the first time I said no and I pushed his hand away. Why didn't he contact me back? Because he didnt get what he wanted and he knows he won't. If he wanted to get to know me he woulda just stayed on the couch where he was and we woulda continued talking.

 

I clearly failed and I feel bad becuase I put myself at risk 100% by missing all the 'red flags' .. but that doesn't take away the fact that this was he clearly wanted to take advantage of me.

 

I did all of this things because in the past I have gone to people's places early on and the guy has been nothing but respectful .. very naive of me to think that all guys are like that I guess.

[sm1tten]

Thanks for clarifying, ZG. In my experience, whether I had sex on date 2 (leading to a 4 year relationship; again, leading to a 2 year relationship) or date 6 (leading nowhere) didn't necessarily mean that he/I wasn't relationship minded, or did/did not ultimately want more than just a casual thing. I was objecting to the black and white of it; generally speaking, the men that I know usually want to have sex early in the relationship and so do the women they date... and in my circle of friends, all of those men wanted LTR and are still in them, so it didn't jibe with me. Obviously YMMV.

 

I do think that because I'm not interested in getting married or having children, my idea of "relationship orientedness" is probably slanted from yours and TAL's. I don't think men who have had a lot of short term relationships or casual sexual encounters are necessarily people that I can't or shouldn't be with. I actually haven't dated any men who pushed me into having sex before I was ready, but I have dated men who were very discriminating about who they dated or had sex with but were completely incompatible with me in various ways. So, different strokes, you know.

[zengirl]

Thanks for clarifying, ZG. In my experience, whether I had sex on date 2 (leading to a 4 year relationship; again, leading to a 2 year relationship) or date 6 (leading nowhere) didn't necessarily mean that he/I wasn't relationship minded, or did/did not ultimately want more than just a casual thing.

 

Oh, totally, and I said upthread that my personal reasoning for not having sex early has nothing to do with that. It has to do with: most people I go on a few dates with, I wouldn't want a LTR with. . . that's just how it shakes out. You get to know someone, and you realize you're not good matches long-term. Pushing for sex is a totally different thing than having it! I know loads of people who had early sex and it led to marriages and the like. When I say "carry yourself like you're relationship-oriented" I'm not even referring to not having sex; I am referring to being clear in your boundaries, what you want, and what you don't, and always showing that building a connection is the priority over immediate fun or gratification. (Which doesn't mean that having sex, if both parties are on the same page -- and relatively sober for the first time, hopefully -- is a bad thing at all.)

 

I was objecting to the black and white of it; generally speaking, the men that I know usually want to have sex early in the relationship and so do the women they date... and in my circle of friends, all of those men wanted LTR and are still in them, so it didn't jibe with me. Obviously YMMV.

 

Wanting sex early and requiring it early/pushing for it are two very different things. If those men didn't have to push and the woman was on the same page, then you're not seeing that requirement/pushing. What I find to be not relationship oriented is the guy who says he'll dump any girl who doesn't have sex by date #whatever (unless we're talking like waiting for months or till marriage or something). That's prioritizing sex over a relationship. Are the guys in your social circle like that?

 

Just being, "This girl is hot, so of course I want to jump her bones!" is normal, I think, but if he sees any potential resistance, he's going to be patient because he likes the girl more than the immediate potential of sex.

 

I do think that because I'm not interested in getting married or having children, my idea of "relationship orientedness" is probably slanted from yours and TAL's.

 

Likely true. When I say relationship-oriented---I mean relationships leading to a relatively permanent state, whether that's marriage or something similar without the paper.

 

I don't think men who have had a lot of short term relationships or casual sexual encounters are necessarily people that I can't or shouldn't be with. I actually haven't dated any men who pushed me into having sex before I was ready, but I have dated men who were very discriminating about who they dated or had sex with but were completely incompatible with me in various ways. So, different strokes, you know.

 

I'm only against guys who've had casual sex and either lied about it or resented/looked down on/had issues with the women they had casual sex with, really. Those guys have toxic psychologies. And, for me, I'm against guys who are prioritizing sex (currently) over relationships, but that's because I do want to get married, yes.

 

I think there are lots of good guys out there who are more interested in something casual or STRs or whatever----the key is if you're into something totally different, stay away. If you're into the same level of commitment they are (whatever that is, even if it's just being open to either possibility -- STR or LTR or whatever), that usually works.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Thanks for clarifying, ZG. In my experience, whether I had sex on date 2 (leading to a 4 year relationship; again, leading to a 2 year relationship) or date 6 (leading nowhere) didn't necessarily mean that he/I wasn't relationship minded, or did/did not ultimately want more than just a casual thing. I was objecting to the black and white of it; generally speaking, the men that I know usually want to have sex early in the relationship and so do the women they date... and in my circle of friends, all of those men wanted LTR and are still in them, so it didn't jibe with me. Obviously YMMV.

 

I do think that because I'm not interested in getting married or having children, my idea of "relationship orientedness" is probably slanted from yours and TAL's. I don't think men who have had a lot of short term relationships or casual sexual encounters are necessarily people that I can't or shouldn't be with. I actually haven't dated any men who pushed me into having sex before I was ready, but I have dated men who were very discriminating about who they dated or had sex with but were completely incompatible with me in various ways. So, different strokes, you know.

 

Thanks for the clarification I'd probably avoid men who had lots of short term relationships, casual encounters, or a history of infidelity.

 

Because I am looking for and have a history of long term committed relationships... and that is what I'd like again someday. Do I think men with the above history are incapable of that? Not necessarily. Just not likely. So our respective posts make sense given our goals...

[Bgirl]

So.... want to know the end of my story?

 

He texted me back today , to a question that I had asked him on Sunday (I thought I left my debit card but I didnt) .. today he replied " Nope you didn't"

 

So I just got back to him and said " Txs for the reply but I dont think you have time for this, I'm not interested"

 

And he got back to me saying " I understand, best of luck!! "

 

Pretty obvious we were haeding this way.

[ThsAmericanLife]

So.... want to know the end of my story?

 

He texted me back today , to a question that I had asked him on Sunday (I thought I left my debit card but I didnt) .. today he replied " Nope you didn't"

 

So I just got back to him and said " Txs for the reply but I dont think you have time for this, I'm not interested"

 

And he got back to me saying " I understand, best of luck!! "

 

Pretty obvious we were haeding this way.

 

I'm sorry, Bgirl. From your posts, it sounds like you learned some useful lessons from this past experience.

[nalfy88]

No it's not just you. It seems western society in particular has become increasingly screwed up as a whole. The UK and the USA have scored as two of the highest countries/continent in casual attitudes to sex, and rates of divorce/failed relationships etc.

 

I was in your position, however I don't think being hurt in the past is an excuse for people to treat other people like crap. I never have, and I came out of an extremely violent and traumatic relationship, and I always treat other people with the utmost respect, whether just an acquaintance, but especially if I am interested in them.

 

It just seems like a cover up to mask the fact that a lot of western people just have ugly personalities, however they just don't want to admit it. I'm glad there is another woman like myself out there, it brings me a lot of clarification. I thankfully found my perfect partner, however guess what? He's foreign and was brought up in a foreign country (Colombia) coincidence? Nope! My advice would be to avoid any man who conforms to British/American society (meaning as oh its cool to treat others like crap, because everyone else is doing it, and I only care about myself mentality) in saying this there are British and American men that are genuine, though its like searching for a needle in a haystack lol! Makes you wonder if these people saw others throwing themselves under trains, they would follow suit just because it had become socially acceptable? Absolutely ridiculous!

 

You sound like a caring and independent woman, so karma will come round to bring you happiness. Don't worry, these men always end up with shock babies and stuck in relationships they don't want to be in. Well, that's the consequence for treating your fellow man like dirt quite frankly lol! Don't worry you will find the right man for you, just bide your time.

[Nexus One]

It just seems like a cover up to mask the fact that a lot of western people just have ugly personalities, however they just don't want to admit it.

 

I don't think that is limited to just people with a Western background.