Having second thoughts about marrying him...

[canadagirl]

I have some concerns re: getting married. My fiancee and I have been together total two years. He's 31, I'm 25. He owns his own business and therefore seems very dependent on his contacts and work associates/friends. We see each other anywhere from 3 to 5 times a week but I feel that as we are closer now and should be planning a future and wedding he is still living a bachelor type lifestyle. He feels he needs to make contacts and entertain them, i.e. afternoon lunches, or evening drinks. He is an excessive drinker at times. I feel that when plans change for him I am the first to be sacrificed, i.e. our time together. This happens too often for me to compromise anymore. I have returned the ring 3 times because our arguements are heavy duty and often escalate into yelling contests, we both have bad tempers. I often feel that his friends and his lifestyle take priority, he thinks I am irrational and unsupportive and that I should support how hard he is working for us. I don't feel that we are a team, or that I am his best friend in life. I feel he lives quite independently from me. We do not live together, and I will not move in with him until we are married. He refuses to discuss concrete wedding plans with me, we have set the date together but he will not discuss particulars with his parents like I have asked him to repeatedly, attributing it to all of his 'stress' and that fact that we need to learn to get along. When he reasons this way, I feel resentful that he did not discuss this with me before we were engaged and involved all of our families and friends in our decision. He states he loves me and wants to marry me and that he thought the engagement was the best way to show me. I am very confused about all of this and I'm having second thoughts. An opinion, please?

[moimeme]

I don't feel that we are a team, or that I am his best friend in life. I feel he lives quite independently from me

 

You don't even sound like friends, much less like a loving couple. Why, exactly, would you want to marry him at all?

[magda]

he will not discuss particulars with his parents like I have asked him to repeatedly, attributing it to all of his 'stress' and that fact that we need to learn to get along. When he reasons this way, I feel resentful that he did not discuss this with me before we were engaged

Erm, you've returned the ring 3 times. You don't think it's reasonable to wait until you guys can get along before planning the wedding?

[Red Flag Rick]

Originally posted by canadagirl

I have some concerns re: getting married. he is still living a bachelor type lifestyle. He is an excessive drinker at times. I feel that when plans change for him I am the first to be sacrificed, i.e. our time together. This happens too often for me to compromise anymore. I have returned the ring 3 times because our arguments are heavy duty and often escalate into yelling contests, we both have bad tempers. I often feel that his friends and his lifestyle take priority, he thinks I am irrational and unsupportive and that I should support how hard he is working for us. I don't feel that we are a team, or that I am his best friend in life. I feel he lives quite independently from me. He refuses to discuss concrete wedding plans with me, we have set the date together but he will not discuss particulars with his parents like I have asked him to repeatedly, attributing it to all of his 'stress' and that fact that we need to learn to get along. When he reasons this way, I feel resentful that he did not discuss this with me before we were engaged and involved all of our families and friends in our decision. He states he loves me and wants to marry me and that he thought the engagement was the best way to show me. I am very confused about all of this and I'm having second thoughts. An opinion, please?

 

 

i took out everything in your post that wasn't a red flag to me, and almost your entire post is still here. i am glad you have concerns, because you are headed for disaster if you two, in your current places, marry.

 

one line jumped out at me:

 

"When he reasons this way, I feel resentful that he did not discuss this with me before we were engaged"

 

i think you should be resentful that you did not prepare yourself to see this guy's reality in the initial stages of your dating experience. if you had been prepared, you would have spotted red flags immediately, and you would not be in this unfortunate situation. and there is a technique to spotting red flags, and i think you deserve to know how to do it.

 

This guy was waving red flags that you should have caught - and I urge you to take the steps necessary to learn about placing the correct value on yourself and setting up your expectations of a healthy life parter before you spend, no, waste, one more minute trying to make this present reality work. You have been in this obvious drama-filled relationship for two years, and you are still considering marriage.

 

this is a huge red flag. and you deserve more. so please do a search using my screen name on this board and you will see that you have missed a very important process that can substantially reduce the chances of an unhealthy journey like yours... you are worth a partner who views your union as a team effort, and after two years with this guy, if you are saying this, you should give the ring back once and for all and give yourself the power to approach relationships correctly.

 

the bad temper may have something to do with your low self-esteem, or it may need to be addressed though anger management counseling with a professional... but i wonder how your temper would be if you were more comfortable with yourself and your ability to make better choices in men... you may find that once you have the internal tools necessary to create a better life, your bad temper vanishes...

 

your concerns are valid. and i don't think the advice of "you two should go to counseling" will get it... but if you do choose to enter counseling together, recognize that it will be a long journey for you both - from what i can see, you both have much work to do... and you have already invested two years in this unhealthy relationship. just make sure this is what you really want to do if you choose this route...

 

i must confess that my perspective is biased on this post - i read your post and i have a cousin in the very same boat - it freaked me out because i felt like i was reading about their situation almost word for word... but she knew all this and got married anyway because of the security and his mega-money... and she is the most miserable person i know. and that child she had with him didn't make everything work out like she just knew it would...

 

so at the very least, call the engagement off because you have much to think about. and please remember that you are worth more than this.

[Thinkalot]

I can understand how tough it can be,when you love someone, and want to marry them, but things just dont seem to be right. But don't ignore the warnings here....you do need to iron out your problems before you advance any further, and you are very right to be concerned. I personally think living together before marriage is very wise.

 

I have been with my partner for about 3 years. We moved in together after 3months and started to talk of marriage within the first year. I was all for it...but then problems arose, and we put it on the backburner till we'd sorted everything out. At the time, I was upset and hurt, because I wanted to go ahead anyway...but my guy urged caution and said we should wait a while. It proved to be a wise course of action. Now, we are much closer, know each other much better and have a much more real and healthy relationship. And now we are talking marriage, and it FEELS WONDERFUL AND RIGHT TO BOTH OF US.

 

Marriage is for life. Don't rush in.

 

Good luck working through your issues together.

[meanon]

I have returned the ring 3 times because our arguements are heavy duty and often escalate into yelling contests, we both have bad tempers. I often feel that his friends and his lifestyle take priority, he thinks I am irrational and unsupportive and that I should support how hard he is working for us. I don't feel that we are a team, or that I am his best friend in life. I feel he lives quite independently from me.

 

You do not get on.

He doesn't make you feel special or important to him.

You do not share the same values about what's important in life.

You seem totally alienated from him.

 

This marriage is a recipe for disaster. Please don't do it!

[Thinkalot]

Is there a reason why you are opposed to living together? Religion maybe. Living together can really show you a lot about each other, and be a good test before marriage. Some big changes are needed here before you can enter marriage I think.

[befuddled11]

I'm not taking his side, but I am trying to see some things from his perspective.

 

If he owns his own business and has to make "contacts" with people, that's very much an essential part of owning a business. If the guy doesn't get out there and make contacts, kiss some butt, schmooze, try to get potential clients, his business will go down the tubes. Making and keeping contacts/clients is the lifeblood of a business remaining one that pays the bills and stays afloat. Yes....it means lunches and drinks in the evening with clients.....and often changing plans to accomodate potential clients, that's all part of the business, I'm afraid. You have to try and understand this, not take it personally, and decide whether you can accept this lifestyle........because it's not likely going to change.

 

Now that being said, the fact that you've handed the ring back 3 times, the back that you both get into very huge yelling matches, both admittedly have "tempers".......these are major issues that need to be addressed before you even CONSIDER walking down the aisle. Marriage isn't a magical pill that's going to wipe away previous problems in the relationship. If you can't understand your guy's lifestyle due to his business obligations, then it would make sense that he's not jumping the gun to get married. Problems usually always get WORSE after marriage.

 

The yelling, the inability to compromise and communicate effectively and maturely, the "temper" that you both have.....this is all a significant recipe for disaster.

 

I suggest you 2 get into some kind of couples' counselling.........to try and work through all of these very signficant areas of concern. At this time, based on what you've written, you're really in no position to be thinking about marriage, IMO.

[Thinkalot]

And do take heart, with enough committment on both sides, those things can be improved significantly.

[jmargel]

Canadagirl,

 

The reason why he is acting that way is because when you get angry with him, he feels like he's disappointing you. He then goes into defense mode, trying to explain why YOU shouldn't be upset. You then don't feel like your reasons are being understood or validated. Then the yelling starts. Am I correct?

 

When you have a gripe about something with him you also need to point out something positive. Such as when he goes out to 'entertain' his business contacts, say something like 'I know you work hard and it shows how dedicated you are, but can you please be home by <this time> so we can have some time together'? Instead of saying 'You don't have any time for me you are always with your business associates'. When you say that, he is hearing 'You don't love me and the real reason why you want to spend time with your business associates is because you rather be with them'.

 

Don't you see that men are providers, and all they want is to feel like they are your 'Knight in shining armor'. Men hate to disappoint, and they either become fighters (yelling) such as him, or turn to the cold-war. Which is just pushing away, putting up the defenses, waiting for the inevidable.

 

Do yourselves both a favor, you need to see a certified marriage councilor. Also the book 'Men are from mars, women from venus' will help you both. If you two have an open mind and love each other enough you can get through this. You both need to set some boundaries for yourselves, and each other to help make your relationship work.

[canadagirl]

Just to let you know, I'm grateful for your responses. That last opinion really struck me because it definitely outlines my fiancee's opinion on things from a man's perspective. We definitely don't communicate effectively. I will mention that we spent the other day really talking things through and I found that the more calm and approachable I tried to be, and understanding of his end, the more calm and reasonable he was. He agreed to take more days off this summer instead of the usual seven days a week, both for our relationship and his sanity. He said he never realized how important and special a wedding was to a woman and that I need to tell him these things and not assume he knows it all. I admitted that I am quick to jump to conclusions, and I don't forgive as easily as I hold a grudge. Anyway the whole weekend was so calm and pleasant that I am still surprised at how much easier that was. Not to say that everything is perfect but I will say that I sure didn't realize how useful this website would be! So thank you.

[zarathustra]

I can see the mutual recriminations and resentment flying back and forth. If you find this unpleasant now, just wait to your married.

 

I'll let you in on a guy's dirty little secret: Many of us use Work to evade the significant other. Too much intimacy (at least the kind not involving sex) can be stressful and boring to many men. Women sense this, but when they, feeling hurt, rejected and slighted, strike back, we have the perfect comeback: The Provider Excuse.

 

The Provider Excuse goes something like this: Man gets on high horse and pronounces," You don't appreciate how hard I'm working for us. I'm doing this all for you." Translation: You intrusive, controlling and ungrateful wench, leave me the hell alone. I really prefer the company of workmates and clients to your emotional caterwauling.

 

Work, the time tested intimacy dodge.

 

On the bright side, the engagement is revealing major fault lines in your relationship. Ignore these warning signals at your peril.

[canadagirl]

I don't know how many of you are married or engaged or whatever, but I'd like to know what other people's experiences have been. Are you supposed to be elated all the time? Does everyone have struggles in different forms? I thought men who didn't want to commit/marry are one category, but what about men who do want to commit and get engaged, i.e. my situation, but are having trouble with growing with the relationships. What the heck is going on with those?

[jmargel]

I was engaged before and it didnt work out. I am now engaged to someone else (4 years later). Are you suppose to feel elated all the time? Nope. Everyone has moods, everyone gets sad or upset or just wants to be left alone. Their mate needs to understand that it's not personal when that happens (im still trying to learn that). Also, everyone has doubts about marriage. If you didn't, then you would be blind to the world and when problems arise you wouldn't know how to deal with them.

 

If you two love each other enough you will work through your problems. I still think you need counciling. Don't have your relationship live from day to day. I was doing that or at least felt it with my fiancee. She was too quick to say she wasn't going to get married when she got upset.

 

Going to a councilor really woke her up, the stuff she said when she was upset to her was just an exagriation (sp?) but is something I took to heart and was pushing me away. She also has anger & control issues which she admit to doing because she is insecure that I might leave.

 

I can guarantee you'll both find out alot about yourselves & each other by going to one. You'll be able to finally get your point across by seeing one. It was a big relief for someone who was outside this relationship to be able to say to her and make her understand what I was trying to tell her. Because no matter how hard & how much I pushed nothing got through. I knew she really cared when she started crying during the session. On the way there her attitude was 'If she tells me something I don't want to hear, then I'm leaving'. It woke her up. I bought some relationship books which she mocked me for buying last week. Last night she actually picked one up & started reading it. She was speechless when some of the things the book mentioned really related to her. I could give you the title of those books if you want.

 

You get out of a relationship in what you put into it. Us men speak a different language than you women. We tend to forget that alot of the times and we hurt the ones we love most unknowningly. Before you two get married you need to have that security that he'll always be there. Do this now, not after the marriage. If you wait til after the marriage he may think he 'has' you and be less cooperative in correcting the problems facing you both.

[meanon]

Many people feel a pressure to be constantly elated but are occasionally beset by worries about whether they are doing the right thing, whether the love will last. Unfortunately people often feel that these are worries they can not share. Every relationship has it's struggles. But marriage is a long, long journey in which there are many tests. To have the problems you have described at the outset (particularly the feeling that he lives independently from you and is not your best friend) does not bode well. The way you both handle arguments is not in itself a major issue, it's relatively easy to learn how to handle conflict in a constructive manner as long as both of you are committed to doing so.

 

As to why your fiance is not growing into the relationship, there are so many possibilities it's hard to say. Maybe he wants the status of being married, maybe he loves you but is too immature to handle the committment despite wanting to, maybe he has yet to learn what real love is, maybe he knows it's not working out and he can't face making the break. Ask him.

[Thinkalot]

Yes, talk to him. Be his friend, ask him to be yours.

 

I used to worry if I wasn't 'elated' all the time too! But noone is.

[moimeme]

I'll let you in on a guy's dirty little secret: Many of us use Work to evade the significant other. Too much intimacy (at least the kind not involving sex) can be stressful and boring to many men.

 

Why do such men even get married? Why not live single and hire escorts, cooks, and maids?

 

Are you supposed to be elated all the time?

 

Hell, no! If nothing else, you'd burn out a couple fuses. Love and marriage don't eliminate all feelings except happiness from your life.

 

Does everyone have struggles in different forms?

 

Of course. Two people meshing lives is a big deal.

[Thinkalot]

canadagirl, listen to moimeme...she is very wise! But do not of course ignore your issues.

[canadagirl]

Well what I've decided to do is really observe the relationship closely for a month or so and change my approach in this time frame. I'm going to try to be as objective as I can and to take responsibility for myself and my actions better. We both promised each other to try to do this. I'm really going to do it and watch his response and if he does the same. Unfortunately I just don't feel 100% hopeful but nevertheless, I'll try. As a response to a couple of the posts here, I don't think that all men shy away from women's emotions, needs, sensitivity, etc. I think a lot of men want to learn how to work with them and vice versa. I think that there are just as many men who aren't too interested in learning and that's ok too. But I guess these men aren't the ones we ladies should commit to!

[moimeme]

But I guess these men aren't the ones we ladies should commit to!

 

Of course some of them pretend to care until they've snagged you.

 

BTW, thanks, Thinkalot for the kind compliment

[Thinkalot]

Good luck canadagirl! Let us know how you get on.

[canadagirl]

I'm going to add another twist to this situation, since he's obviously not here to put in his opinion. My fiancee thinks we are great buddies. He doesn't feel he lives independently from me. But the mixed message lies in how much effort I feel he makes. Now I have to say that none of my girlfriends are engaged to their partners so I don't have many examples, but we spend usually every other day/evening together which is fine. The rest of his free time, then, is for his friends or associates, so roughly half and half. And I am rarely invited. So it's not that I don't want him to have work contacts and good friends because I do. But why he needs that much alone time is concerning to me. I wonder, then, if that's what our marriage will be like too.

[moimeme]

One of the numerous issues a couple needs to resolve before marrying is the amount of 'alone' versus 'couple' time each hopes/expects to spend. People can have very different needs for companionship and this can lead to conflict.

 

For a good read on relationship needs, have a look at <removed> They cover quite a few of the biggies.

[Thinkalot]

Another thing, couples define their own boundaries on behaviour and what they expect and accept. Often these boundaries vary quite a bit from relationship to relationship depending on the individuals involved. My partner and I have some strict rules for each other about certain things, because we realised one, or both of us, couldn't handle certain things otherwise!

 

You should work through all the different areas of life, from space and togetherness, to money, family values, kids, career aspirations, how you'll handle it if you do have kids, where you may want to live and so on. I know some of things may seem obvious, but you'd be surprised how many people don't discuss them in depth!

[canadagirl]

I've been through my share in life but this is probably the most difficult situation I've been in. Very confusing.