Lexygirl Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Hey all. I'm not even sure if this is where I should be starting this thread but I feel 'safer' in here talking about this than perhaps in some of the other sections. Some of you may know my story but for whoever doesn't I will give you a quick summary and then I will pose my dilemma... 19 years married (23 together) 2 kids (12 and 16) Past 3+ years have been like living as siblings and very disconnected He spent wayyyyy too much time in his garage and on the computer (which I came to resent) and I spent way too much time on the computer (which I'm sure he came to resent as well) Last fall I left with my daughter for 2 months.. came back.. for reasons other than to reconcile in reality BUT ended up trying to reconcile... While I was away.. yes there was infidelity (which he knows about) Left again in June and July and have been back for a few weeks. When I came back, I had a good mindset. I so wanted to make us work but still had a wall up. He was still same ole... in fact not only does he have a bunch of old hobby cars, he now has several motorcycles (one main cruiser and 3 parts bikes which he bought with his buddy ) Anyway, we've talked and he has sold some of his old cars because I have really gotten so frustrated and angry about the fact that this whole house and property seem like his 'domain' and I am somewhere out in left field as usual.... and yet over 20 years of our marriage have been immersed in him and the kids and lost myself. Anyway, I feel like I'm finally finding myself and starting to get a hold on where I belong in the universe and that can be done within the confines of my marriage and family life. HOWEVER, my dilemma is the intimacy and sex..... No matter how much we talk about sex and what we both need, etc. it doesn't happen. In the past years it's been usually on average every 3 - 5 months and when it happened it was just wham bam thank you ma'am... bleh. I honestly am to the point where I am more repelled by him than attracted and it's upsetting but the truth. He has been very standoffish with sex and my sex drive has been higher than usual for over a year so the incompatibility caused problems before. NOW I don't even want him anyway. Many things contribute to that and I can't get back the attraction. We get along really well... like I say.. like brother and sister. We can virtually talk about anything but he does like to live in denial when it comes to the tough stuff. Anyway, he loves me and I care about him and we have two amazing children. I would love things to just calm down and just 'live' BUT there is this large 'sex elephant' in the room lol. I mean basically last week the sex was so bad... I was so sexually frustrated and disgusted with myself afterwards and felt almost used that I got in a terrible bad mood all weekend and finally I spilled it to him that I'm sick of this crap. He honestly doesn't 'get it' and never will but like I say... I have lost ALL attraction for him now anyway... I told him that I really don't want sex with him ever again. I know that sounds awful and harsh but it's MY reality. I can't do this anymore. So anyway, ever since then, we haven't mentioned it again and have been acting like everything is ok.. I don't know what's in his mind.... perhaps relief? Perhaps hopeful that things will magically change? What I do know is that we BOTH have needs and I honestly am thinking of asking him for an open marriage or just trying to keep our marriage on a platonic, good natured level and go out and if sex comes to me with another man, then don't ask, don't tell. Ugh I know I'm gonna get heat from this here but I just need to get this out. Yes, I could leave but does he really want me to leave? No. Do I want to leave a man who is good to me and who is a good father? No. I am a mess when we are apart. I cry so much and he looks like living h e l l. Perhaps I'm just delaying the inevitable but goodness it hurts us both and the kids when we are split up. I just wish we could have seen this all coming a few years ago and stopped the behaviours before they began. Now I really do feel like we are at a point of no return but something deep inside of me has this hope that won't fade. Also, I hate to see him so sad like when we were apart. It kills me to see him like that Please help me find answers.
whichwayisup Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Reguardless of the outcome, marriage counselling can help .. A lot! If he were to agree to an open marriage, there would have to be rules. The don't ask, don't tell is fine now but further down the road neither of you "know" how you'll react or feel about it until it happens.. It's easy to say you're fine with it but if you have love and feelings of affection/emotional attachment for your husband and him for you, this may not work. If a D happens, you two can still be on good terms, be great parents to your kids, just only in two different households. Talk to him, continue being honest. Hopefully he'll give you the same honesty back. Don't give up when his wall goes up.. If he is unwilling to talk, ask him to please write you a letter explaining what he feels, what his hopes are and how he feels about what you've discussed with him. this could be an easier way for him to communicate instead of verbally saying what he wants to say.. but can't.
2011aug Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I'll take a stab at this. I haven't read your backstory but I read your summary above. You had an affair when you were left last year for 2 months. He knows about it. (Perhaps you told him?) In any event, that will always be on his mind. And it affects everything you both do now. You say he likes to live in denial. I think he may be trying to process or has already processed the affair. You say he does not want you to leave? So, no divorce? Or, is he waiting for the last child to turn 18? He has gone quiet, so he could be in one of those grieving stages? Anyways, why dont you get him to join a gym to work out and exercise? It will get him out of the house and get him out of his rut, and it'll make him feel good.
dreamingoftigers Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 You are back where you started. Crap. I know that cycle very well. Very very well. I suggest you trying something completely different. Don't talk about it for 6 months. Zip your lip. Say nothing. Share no feelings with him. Period. If you want to break down, do it in private or talk to a friend or on here. Be nice to him, stable kind etc. Just nice and dump nothing, not one iota of responsibility on him beyond his half of bills and parenting of what have you. Go out, have fun (not affair fun). See your friends, build up supports like you are leaving. Try it for six months, see if that gets a totally different intimate response. I have one like yours. They are slow to the draw. You can have a cut and dry convo about: okay here is my issue, I NEED sexual intimacy in my life. I am not asking you to fix the problem but if you aren't interested then we need to discuss options because this is a marital expectation. What do you suggest? Then listen. Don't be a victim to his withdrawal but don't lay everything on him either. Guys like this short-circuit emotionally very quickly. Present it as a problem that needs to be solved. Even give him a day to think about it. I know it's tough as all Hell. Men work on a completely different operating system then us. Ever read those books or do I have to bug you when I go to Midland later? LOL
jnj express Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 It would be my suggestion the 2 of you, find a good qualified sex therapist, and go that route before you go to open mge. Open mge.,'s cause problems, and you just might be better off divorcing, which would probably be better off mental health wise, than him watching you give yourself to other men, as if you were going to male prostitutes, which is actually about what you would be doing, cept, you would be calling them married men----at least give the sex therapy a shot, before you do something to cause an end to whatever you have left of your mge.
MusicMan1234 Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 He's probably turned off you because you sound like a nagging wife. He had a hobby which made him happy and you forced him to sell off half his cars. And now your nagging him because he doesn't want to have sex with you enough. On top of that you cheated on him which you have not addressed AT ALL (except as an aside). If I was him I would've been out the door a lon time ago. I'll give you advice, but I know your type and I know you're probably not going to listen to it. But here it is. Look at your own behaviour. Your post was basically you b****ing about your husbands inadequacies followed by 'ME, ME, ME'. Get over yourself. I wouldn't be suprised if he actually want's you to leave, it doesn't seem like you've given him any time to heal following your infidelity and you expect him to perform like a god when you treat him like you do? Wow, i'm disgusted. I've got nothing more to say to you. 1
Art_Critic Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 You aren't going to fix anything until you bring yourself back into the marriage and stop hanging another affair out there as bait. It isn't fair to him or your kids that you can't seem to not want to cheat on him. In or out ? right now you are neither.. That would be a good start.. then start going to MC
Space Ritual Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Hey all. I'm not even sure if this is where I should be starting this thread but I feel 'safer' in here talking about this than perhaps in some of the other sections. Some of you may know my story but for whoever doesn't I will give you a quick summary and then I will pose my dilemma... 19 years married (23 together) 2 kids (12 and 16) Past 3+ years have been like living as siblings and very disconnected He spent wayyyyy too much time in his garage and on the computer (which I came to resent) and I spent way too much time on the computer (which I'm sure he came to resent as well) Last fall I left with my daughter for 2 months.. came back.. for reasons other than to reconcile in reality BUT ended up trying to reconcile... While I was away.. yes there was infidelity (which he knows about) Left again in June and July and have been back for a few weeks. When I came back, I had a good mindset. I so wanted to make us work but still had a wall up. He was still same ole... in fact not only does he have a bunch of old hobby cars, he now has several motorcycles (one main cruiser and 3 parts bikes which he bought with his buddy ) Anyway, we've talked and he has sold some of his old cars because I have really gotten so frustrated and angry about the fact that this whole house and property seem like his 'domain' and I am somewhere out in left field as usual.... and yet over 20 years of our marriage have been immersed in him and the kids and lost myself. Anyway, I feel like I'm finally finding myself and starting to get a hold on where I belong in the universe and that can be done within the confines of my marriage and family life. HOWEVER, my dilemma is the intimacy and sex..... No matter how much we talk about sex and what we both need, etc. it doesn't happen. In the past years it's been usually on average every 3 - 5 months and when it happened it was just wham bam thank you ma'am... bleh. I honestly am to the point where I am more repelled by him than attracted and it's upsetting but the truth. He has been very standoffish with sex and my sex drive has been higher than usual for over a year so the incompatibility caused problems before. NOW I don't even want him anyway. Many things contribute to that and I can't get back the attraction. We get along really well... like I say.. like brother and sister. We can virtually talk about anything but he does like to live in denial when it comes to the tough stuff. Anyway, he loves me and I care about him and we have two amazing children. I would love things to just calm down and just 'live' BUT there is this large 'sex elephant' in the room lol. I mean basically last week the sex was so bad... I was so sexually frustrated and disgusted with myself afterwards and felt almost used that I got in a terrible bad mood all weekend and finally I spilled it to him that I'm sick of this crap. He honestly doesn't 'get it' and never will but like I say... I have lost ALL attraction for him now anyway... I told him that I really don't want sex with him ever again. I know that sounds awful and harsh but it's MY reality. I can't do this anymore. So anyway, ever since then, we haven't mentioned it again and have been acting like everything is ok.. I don't know what's in his mind.... perhaps relief? Perhaps hopeful that things will magically change? What I do know is that we BOTH have needs and I honestly am thinking of asking him for an open marriage or just trying to keep our marriage on a platonic, good natured level and go out and if sex comes to me with another man, then don't ask, don't tell. Ugh I know I'm gonna get heat from this here but I just need to get this out. Yes, I could leave but does he really want me to leave? No. Do I want to leave a man who is good to me and who is a good father? No. I am a mess when we are apart. I cry so much and he looks like living h e l l. Perhaps I'm just delaying the inevitable but goodness it hurts us both and the kids when we are split up. I just wish we could have seen this all coming a few years ago and stopped the behaviours before they began. Now I really do feel like we are at a point of no return but something deep inside of me has this hope that won't fade. Also, I hate to see him so sad like when we were apart. It kills me to see him like that Please help me find answers. I'm sorry I really don't have any advice.... I understand that there are 2 sides to every story and I usually take threads like this with a ton of salt because if I read too much in the infidelity or cheating forums they are way too triggery for me. But this is the most triggery post I have seen in the 2 years I have been here......
John Michael Kane Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 He's probably turned off you because you sound like a nagging wife. He had a hobby which made him happy and you forced him to sell off half his cars. And now your nagging him because he doesn't want to have sex with you enough. On top of that you cheated on him which you have not addressed AT ALL (except as an aside). If I was him I would've been out the door a lon time ago. I'll give you advice, but I know your type and I know you're probably not going to listen to it. But here it is. Look at your own behaviour. Your post was basically you b****ing about your husbands inadequacies followed by 'ME, ME, ME'. Get over yourself. I wouldn't be suprised if he actually want's you to leave, it doesn't seem like you've given him any time to heal following your infidelity and you expect him to perform like a god when you treat him like you do? Wow, i'm disgusted. I've got nothing more to say to you. I agree 100%.
John Michael Kane Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 He's probably turned off you because you sound like a nagging wife. He had a hobby which made him happy and you forced him to sell off half his cars. And now your nagging him because he doesn't want to have sex with you enough. On top of that you cheated on him which you have not addressed AT ALL (except as an aside). If I was him I would've been out the door a lon time ago. I'll give you advice, but I know your type and I know you're probably not going to listen to it. But here it is. Look at your own behaviour. Your post was basically you b****ing about your husbands inadequacies followed by 'ME, ME, ME'. Get over yourself. I wouldn't be suprised if he actually want's you to leave, it doesn't seem like you've given him any time to heal following your infidelity and you expect him to perform like a god when you treat him like you do? Wow, i'm disgusted. I've got nothing more to say to you. I'm with you.
2011aug Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Your husband cant be happy with you having affairs with men (as you mentioned in another post elsewhere). I certainly dont think so with what you described as his current behaviour and actions. You have his response to your actions. I dont understand why you think he should accept your lack of commitment to the marriage and everything goes back to the way it was before the cheating began. I think he deserves more respect than what you have allocated to him.
Owl Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 What other avenues have the two of you sought out to try to work through this stuff? Honestly...I'd suggest marriage counseling. Focused specifically on communication and...restoring intimacy. Clearly whatever the two of you are trying to do on your own isn't working...so time to bring in some outside help.
Lecturer Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Putting this in the Infidelity forum was a mistake. You get these holier than thou anti-cheating fanatics that don't really understand anything about this situation. Ladies and gentlemen (gentlemen at least), this problem has nothing to do with her 'cheating' - if you think about it you'll realize that the problem predates the 'cheating', and said 'cheating' actually happened when they were SEPARATED. In my book, that wasn't cheating. Furthermore, she was honest and open with her husband about it. Again, stop dwelling on the idea that the core of the problem stems from infidelity, because it doesn't (granted, this was posted in this forum, so I can see the confusion). I'm guessing MusicMan1234 is not married, or wasn't married long (if you are married, good luck). You can't just pursue a 'hobby' willy-nilly, completely ignoring how it will impact your partner or the financial state of your household. No husband or wife can spend all the financial resources and time on a hobby unilaterally, while neglecting their partner entirely.. at least not without consequences. It doesn't make her a nagging wife, it makes him a neglectful, selfish husband, ignorant of his partner's well-being. I think an open marriage is certainly an option, but I think the obsticle to that will be Lexygirl more than it will be her husband. I think her husband will damn near welcome relinquishing sexual obligation with her, honestly. Lexy... an open marriage will grant you sexual freedom to satisfy your basic sexual needs, but I'm not sure that is really the need you are looking to satisfy. If what you actually want is sexual satisfaction from a loving partner, then as long as you're married, this will likely go unfulfilled. However, an open marriage will keep you 'comfortable' and spare you from feeling lonely... things that you would suffer if you pursued a full divorce and rolled the dice on finding a new loving relationship. Edited August 16, 2011 by Lecturer
reboot Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Unless they both agreed to it, cheating while separated is still cheating, whether it's in your book or not. And I'm hardly a 'fanatic'. Hostile much?
jthorne Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 ***DISCLAIMER: INCOMING 2X4*** So I was reading your post and I thought to myself, "What? You want to get a divorce because you are horny? Give me a freaking break!" I hate to break it to ya, and I know you are not the only one at fault here, but you aren't exactly the kind of spouse I would want to come home to. You leave, go have sex with other men, come home after you've had your fun, then you complain that he doesn't pay enough attention to you, and then the cycle continues again. Seriously, what husband would want to have sex with you? If you H told you that it if you didn't improve in the sack, you'd go have an affair, wouldn't that give you a bit of performance anxiety? Wouldn't that kind of turn you off? He's a man with feelings and a male ego. He's not a trained seal for chrissakes! Look, stop your bitching. He buys the cars and motorcycles because they comfort him and because he enjoys them and they are an escape. Escape from what? You and your nagging. So stop it. I'm not saying he's an angel. I'm sure he's not. But you and only you can control you. You can't control him. So control your behavior. Stop making so many demands of him, and make some of yourself. YOU try to give a little. Start being the type of spouse someone would want to come home to. It may sound cliche, but what you're doing now obviously ain't workin'. Do that for a couple months, and then if nothing improves, you can't say you didn't try. Then you can get a divorce and go be horny where ever and with whomever you you want. 1
Lecturer Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Unless they both agreed to it, cheating while separated is still cheating, whether it's in your book or not. And I'm hardly a 'fanatic'. Hostile much? 1. Defensive much? 2. You're still dwelling on irrelevancies. Offer advice to help or keep your thoughts to yourself. Your judgement helps nobody.
reboot Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Why exactly are you so angry Lecturer? You bashing other posters is not helping the OP.
PatFinkle Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Wow girls, the claws are really coming out in force today.
jthorne Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) If you H told you that it if you didn't improve in the sack, you'd go have an affair, wouldn't that give you a bit of performance anxiety?Oops, I meant that to say, if your H told you that if you didn't improve in the sack he'd go have an affair... Look, all I'm saying is that you can try to control his behavior all day long, and it will get you nowhere. You attract more flies with honey than vinegar. So do your best to be the kind of person you'd enjoy coming home to, and see if he doesn't respond in kind. If he doesn't then you can't say you didn't try. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment and try to think about what he needs to make things better. You both broke the marriage. You both have to fix it. You can't just expect him to do your bidding because he's afraid you'll cheat if he doesn't. Somebody here has to step up. You seem the unhappiest, so it might as well be you. Edited August 16, 2011 by jthorne
bentnotbroken Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I'll cop to being fanatically against cheating. But this appears to be the same story I read elsewhere. IF it is....the poster there didn't like the opinions and ended up being really....something.
jthorne Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I'll cop to being fanatically against cheating. But this appears to be the same story I read elsewhere. IF it is....the poster there didn't like the opinions and ended up being really....something.So I just wasted my time again? *sigh*
John Michael Kane Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) Putting this in the Infidelity forum was a mistake. You get these holier than thou anti-cheating fanatics that don't really understand anything about this situation. Ladies and gentlemen (gentlemen at least), this problem has nothing to do with her 'cheating' - if you think about it you'll realize that the problem predates the 'cheating', and said 'cheating' actually happened when they were SEPARATED. In my book, that wasn't cheating. Furthermore, she was honest and open with her husband about it. Again, stop dwelling on the idea that the core of the problem stems from infidelity, because it doesn't (granted, this was posted in this forum, so I can see the confusion). I'm guessing MusicMan1234 is not married, or wasn't married long (if you are married, good luck). You can't just pursue a 'hobby' willy-nilly, completely ignoring how it will impact your partner or the financial state of your household. No husband or wife can spend all the financial resources and time on a hobby unilaterally, while neglecting their partner entirely.. at least not without consequences. It doesn't make her a nagging wife, it makes him a neglectful, selfish husband, ignorant of his partner's well-being. I think an open marriage is certainly an option, but I think the obsticle to that will be Lexygirl more than it will be her husband. I think her husband will damn near welcome relinquishing sexual obligation with her, honestly. Lexy... an open marriage will grant you sexual freedom to satisfy your basic sexual needs, but I'm not sure that is really the need you are looking to satisfy. If what you actually want is sexual satisfaction from a loving partner, then as long as you're married, this will likely go unfulfilled. However, an open marriage will keep you 'comfortable' and spare you from feeling lonely... things that you would suffer if you pursued a full divorce and rolled the dice on finding a new loving relationship. So nobody understands the situation except you, right? I know I'm a fanatic anti-cheating absolutist. I don't claim otherwise. But to paint the obvious as something else is warped. Edited August 16, 2011 by John Michael Kane
blueskyahead Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 ***DISCLAIMER: INCOMING 2X4*** So I was reading your post and I thought to myself, "What? You want to get a divorce because you are horny? Give me a freaking break!" I hate to break it to ya, and I know you are not the only one at fault here, but you aren't exactly the kind of spouse I would want to come home to. You leave, go have sex with other men, come home after you've had your fun, then you complain that he doesn't pay enough attention to you, and then the cycle continues again. Seriously, what husband would want to have sex with you? If you H told you that it if you didn't improve in the sack, you'd go have an affair, wouldn't that give you a bit of performance anxiety? Wouldn't that kind of turn you off? He's a man with feelings and a male ego. He's not a trained seal for chrissakes! Look, stop your bitching. He buys the cars and motorcycles because they comfort him and because he enjoys them and they are an escape. Escape from what? You and your nagging. So stop it. I'm not saying he's an angel. I'm sure he's not. But you and only you can control you. You can't control him. So control your behavior. Stop making so many demands of him, and make some of yourself. YOU try to give a little. Start being the type of spouse someone would want to come home to. It may sound cliche, but what you're doing now obviously ain't workin'. Do that for a couple months, and then if nothing improves, you can't say you didn't try. Then you can get a divorce and go be horny where ever and with whomever you you want. You hit the nail on the head with this response. Yeah I'm sure that the problems didn't start because you had your affairs (yes it is an affair, seperated or not, marriage vows, they were made for a reason, not to break - hello?!?!?) The problems that were there before is still no excuse for an affair. There is no excuse for that. As for the current problems, yeah. I don't blame the dude for not wanting to sleep with you now. Multiple affairs, surfing the net for men, flaunting not-so-appropriate pictures of yourself all over the net, demands on him regarding sex, nagging the poor hardworking man. He probably don't say much cause he is holding his breath hoping you'll just leave him be. You say you don't feel attracted to him anymore, oh my. Stop and think maybe him not wanting to touch you anymore is probably because you had other men. That is a real turn off for us men. For me anyway. It's disgusting. One other man is bad enough but several. Gross! From what I read he's a kind, hardworking provider for his family that don't cheat and all he asks for is his hobbies. No matter what he does, he hasn't cheated, he don't beat you, he has supported you, leaving and coming back. Heavens, you had affairs and he is still willing to have your @ss in his home and support you still. You had the affairs and you can't stop pointing the finger at him. Holy hell lady( I use that word loosely), look in the mirror and stop acting like the victim. You screwed around on your husband and guess what - he's still recovering from that. It will take years. Stop the selfish me, me, me attitude and look at what you can do for your husband. Yeah, bring your husband lunch in the barn when he's working on his car. Hell, pull out a screwdriver and get in there with him. He might surprise you and take you for a "ride". All this because you are horny. Lord, buy a variety of vibrators. Don't bring a third party into your marriage. Your husband deserves so much better than that. I'm sorry - I just can't get over your selfish attitude. It's disgusting. 1
John Michael Kane Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 You hit the nail on the head with this response. Yeah I'm sure that the problems didn't start because you had your affairs (yes it is an affair, seperated or not, marriage vows, they were made for a reason, not to break - hello?!?!?) The problems that were there before is still no excuse for an affair. There is no excuse for that. As for the current problems, yeah. I don't blame the dude for not wanting to sleep with you now. Multiple affairs, surfing the net for men, flaunting not-so-appropriate pictures of yourself all over the net, demands on him regarding sex, nagging the poor hardworking man. He probably don't say much cause he is holding his breath hoping you'll just leave him be. You say you don't feel attracted to him anymore, oh my. Stop and think maybe him not wanting to touch you anymore is probably because you had other men. That is a real turn off for us men. For me anyway. It's disgusting. One other man is bad enough but several. Gross! From what I read he's a kind, hardworking provider for his family that don't cheat and all he asks for is his hobbies. No matter what he does, he hasn't cheated, he don't beat you, he has supported you, leaving and coming back. Heavens, you had affairs and he is still willing to have your @ss in his home and support you still. You had the affairs and you can't stop pointing the finger at him. Holy hell lady( I use that word loosely), look in the mirror and stop acting like the victim. You screwed around on your husband and guess what - he's still recovering from that. It will take years. Stop the selfish me, me, me attitude and look at what you can do for your husband. Yeah, bring your husband lunch in the barn when he's working on his car. Hell, pull out a screwdriver and get in there with him. He might surprise you and take you for a "ride". All this because you are horny. Lord, buy a variety of vibrators. Don't bring a third party into your marriage. Your husband deserves so much better than that. I'm sorry - I just can't get over your selfish attitude. It's disgusting. Great post.
nyrias Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Unless they both agreed to it, cheating while separated is still cheating, whether it's in your book or not. And I'm hardly a 'fanatic'. Hostile much? Not in my book. Cheating is defined as LYING about other relationships in my book. Consent is not required. Thus, as long as one INFORMS his spouse, it is not cheating because there is no lying involved. It is perfectly fine, in my books, to separate and say "now i am going to see other people".
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